quote:Originally posted by 4Art: Actually you can't prove that Satan or Jesus even exist today, but we've covered that.
There is no such thing as enjoyable conversation when you are involved 4art. you constantly challenge every half a statement made by anyone. Seriously how tall are you/ I'm guessing three foot one at most. Squeeky voice is a given.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt.
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Odd that there are simmilarities to almost all major religions in that there is always a good diety and an evil entity. If memory serves, it is almost always that the good and the evil are a part of each other.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt.
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quote:Originally posted by Aragorn243: There is plenty of historical proof that Christ existed. There are religious records and histories, Roman records, archaological sites.
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Satan was supposedly the most beautiful of the angels. Also the most powerfull. This "image" of himself sought a desire to be equal to or over God. As punishment, he was cast out of heaven to earth. It is his beauty which hides his deception. He is also known as the great deciever.
The concept of Satan is similar in the Jewish, Christian and Islamic religions because they all share the creation story. The concept of Satan is also shared by most minor religions as well in one form or another.
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Demons would be lesser angels that sided with Satan. It's been years but Dante's Inferno is a pretty good read on Satan, Demons and Hell in general. The second and third sections of the Divine Comedy cover Pergatory and Heaven.
Sorry on the exists/existed. We did cover that I believe.
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here's your documentation :Jesus Christ in legal battle for driver’s license Mr. Christ’s name on passport, but he faces challenge in W.Va.
Updated: 7:15 a.m. ET May 10, 2005
CHARLESTON, W.Va. - Even Jesus Christ can’t circumvent the rules for getting a driver’s license in West Virginia.
Attempts to prove his name really is Christ have led the man born as Peter Robert Phillips Jr. through a lengthy legal battle and a recent victory in the District of Columbia Court of Appeals.
quote:Originally posted by Aragorn243: There is plenty of historical proof that Christ existed. There are religious records and histories, Roman records, archaological sites.
roman records of what? there are NONE that are contemporaneous with His life....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Every so called bit of evidence that some person, such as Jesus is claimed to be or was, ever existed, turns out to be just some mystical thing that one must accept on "faith". That isn't evidence any more than the fact that residents if Haite ovewhelmingly believe in Voodoo make Voodoo real.
I suppose that most of you have at one time or another seen the frequently shown TV "documentary" in which a supposed piece of wood from noah's ark was carbon dated and told that that dating proves that thare was an ark and therefore the storiues of the bible are confirmed.
Allow me to assure you that, directly from and on absolute authority of the person that prepared and ran that sample of the supposed wood from Noah's ark, what was actually shown was that, if that was a piece of wood from Noah's time, then Noah lived less than 900 years ago.
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Roman Records, all writers within one generation of Christ.
A. Tacitus
We possess at least the testimony of Tacitus (A.D. 54-119) for the statements that the Founder of the Christian religion, a deadly superstition in the eyes of the Romans, had been put to death by the procurator Pontius Pilate under the reign of Tiberius; that His religion, though suppressed for a time, broke forth again not only throughout Judea where it had originated, but even in Rome, the conflux of all the streams of wickness and shamelessness; furthermore, that Nero had diverted from himself the suspicion of the burning of Rome by charging the Christians with the crime; that these latter were not guilty of arson, though they deserved their fate on account of their universal misanthropy. Tacitus, moreover, describes some of the horrible torments to which Nero subjected the Christians (Ann., XV, xliv). The Roman writer confounds the Christians with the Jews, considering them as a especially abject Jewish sect; how little he investigated the historical truth of even the Jewish records may be inferred from the credulity with which he accepted the absurd legends and calumnies about the origin of he Hebrew people (Hist., V, iii, iv).
B. Suetonius
Another Roman writer who shows his acquaintance with Christ and the Christians is Suetonius (A.D. 75-160). It has been noted that Suetonius considered Christ (Chrestus) as a Roman insurgent who stirred up seditions under the reign of Claudius (A.D. 41-54): "Judaeos, impulsore Chresto, assidue tumultuantes (Claudius) Roma expulit" (Clau., xxv). In his life of Nero he regards that emperor as a public benefactor on account of his severe treatment of the Christians: "Multa sub eo et animadversa severe, et coercita, nec minus instituta . . . . afflicti Christiani, genus hominum superstitious novae et maleficae" (Nero, xvi). The Roman writer does not understand that the Jewish troubles arose from the Jewish antagonism to the Messianic character of Jesus Christ and to the rights of the Christian Church.
C. Pliny the Younger
Of greater importance is the letter of Pliny the Younger to the Emperor Trajan (about A.D. 61-115), in which the Governor of Bithynia consults his imperial majesty as to how to deal with the Christians living within his jurisdiction. On the one hand, their lives were confessedly innocent; no crime could be proved against them excepting their Christian belief, which appeared to the Roman as an extravagant and perverse superstition. On the other hand, the Christians could not be shaken in their allegiance to Christ, Whom they celebrated as their God in their early morning meetings (Ep., X, 97, 98). Christianity here appears no longer as a religion of criminals, as it does in the texts of Tacitus and Suetonius; Pliny acknowledges the high moral principles of the Christians, admires their constancy in the Faith (pervicacia et inflexibilis obstinatio), which he appears to trace back to their worship of Christ (carmenque Christo, quasi Deo, dicere).
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The reasons there are sparse records is due to several uprisings in Jerusalem in 70 AD and 135 AD which destroyed nearly all the records of the time.
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The absence of records offers exactly no reason to suggest that that lack is supporting evidence for anything.
Oh, wait, the lack of the library of Alexandria, after it was destroyed, and the burning of the Aztec libraries are evidence that political activities that include religion are detrimental to human welfare and knowledge.
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A burglar breaks into a house late one night and, as he is sneaking around the house with his flashlight, he hears a voice that loudly says "JESUS IS WATCHING YOU!"
The burglar, thinking he has been caught, stops in his tracks.
Silence.
So he starts looking through the house again when suddenly he hears, "JESUS IS WATCHING YOU!"
Again the burglar stops in his tracks.
After a few minutes he hears nothing, so he starts moving around again, and as before, hears "JESUS IS WATCHING YOU!"
This time he hunts for the voice and finds a parrot sitting on a perch.
The burglar askes the parrot if he said that and the parrot said "YES".
The burglar laughs and says "so, whats your name birdie?", and the Parrot replies "CLARENCE".
The burglar laughs even more and says, "What kind of idiot would name a Parrot "Clarence"?
The parrot replies "THE SAME IDIOT THAT NAMED THE ROTTWEILLER "JESUS".
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: A burglar breaks into a house late one night and, as he is sneaking around the house with his flashlight, he hears a voice that loudly says "JESUS IS WATCHING YOU!"
The burglar, thinking he has been caught, stops in his tracks.
Silence.
So he starts looking through the house again when suddenly he hears, "JESUS IS WATCHING YOU!"
Again the burglar stops in his tracks.
After a few minutes he hears nothing, so he starts moving around again, and as before, hears "JESUS IS WATCHING YOU!"
This time he hunts for the voice and finds a parrot sitting on a perch.
The burglar askes the parrot if he said that and the parrot said "YES".
The burglar laughs and says "so, whats your name birdie?", and the Parrot replies "CLARENCE".
The burglar laughs even more and says, "What kind of idiot would name a Parrot "Clarence"?
The parrot replies "THE SAME IDIOT THAT NAMED THE ROTTWEILLER "JESUS".
Now that is funny. I am terrible at telling jobs...but I will try to remember that one. lol
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