quote: however? throw in the rib story? and that implies that Adam and Eve had the SAME DNA...clones?
Lets take a look...
Genesis2: 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Historically, we see here how Eve came into existence. God brought her as a bride to Adam, and we have the beginning of the human race.
Spiritually, for Christ to have an eternal bride, He had to die. In the Bible, God frequently uses sleep to represent death, and the word “deep” to describe hell. So, when God caused Adam to fall into a deep sleep, it was a picture of God sending the Lord Jesus Christ to die on the cross and endure hell for the sins of believers. God took a rib from Adam and made a woman. Here the woman, Eve, represents the bride of Christ, which is the body of believers; we learn this from Revelation 21:9.
In what manner is the true church made of something coming out from Christ? Remember that after Jesus had died on the cross, a Roman soldier pierced His side with a spear and water and blood came out of His side, His rib cage.
John 19:31 31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. 33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
The water is the living water, the Holy Spirit, or the Gospel flowing out of Christ. The blood is the blood He shed for the remission of sins. Thus, had water and blood not flowed out of the Lord Jesus, there would have been no Gospel, no atonement. The living church is formed from that which came out of the side of Christ.
posted
once again? IMO? trying to make it historical gets in the way of the spiritual message... the spiritual message is that life and death is painful but you must perservere no matter what....and that no matter how bad it might seem at any given time? there is something to strive for....
to say that an all-powerful God HAD to do all this to make certain things happens acutally insinuates to me that God is not all-powerfull, because there is a process...why not just speak as he did in genesis?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote: to say that an all-powerful God HAD to do all this to make certain things happens acutally insinuates to me that God is not all-powerfull, because there is a process...why not just speak as he did in genesis?
The answer to your question is Glory.
Posts: 304 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jul 2005
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board/e-mail/net shorthand, as imho/in my humble opinion; jmo/just my opinion; lol/laughing out loud (which is also "inflection" indicating friendly tone when a statement might otherwise seem sarcastic...here's a partial list of acronyms: http://www.allstocks.com/edu/html/internet_lingo.html
posted
The danger of "debating" religion is that it almost always ends up with the person on the "other side" feeling slighted, when no such intent was there. I remind you that Galileo was not imprisioned by the Church for publishing that the earth circled the sun (which the Church scholars along with the intellectual community already knew), but for doing so in Italian: whence the ignorant commoners might read and thereafter question the authority of the bible and then the Church.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
bdgee you bring up several good points. I'de like to look at your above comment carefully and intently.
I bring to the table for discussion that this "debate" is not to do with religion, but to do with truth.
This discussion has in my best efforts been a discussion about the Bible, not religion. Is it hard to see the difference? I understand. However consider that before churches existed during the time of Christ, the world that was then, had the written scripts of the Torah(first 5 books of the Bible written by Moses), and the scripts of those who were called prophets. Today we call it the Old Testament. For those in that area of the world (Judaea)in those days, their structure of society was soley based on what was written in the law of the prophets and of Moses(the Old Testament}. That was all they had, there were no chemstry classes there was no biology, and THAT WAS THE WORLD in those days.
At that period of time the Roman empire had control of the Jewish nation. Churches did not exist. Instead there were temples and synagogs. Much like the churches throughout the last 1955 years, the temples and the synagogs were a place where people were to gather together to worship God by obeying and teaching His commands that were written in the law(the Old Testament)(The whole Bible).
In the Gospel of Jesus according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, we repeatedly read Jesus himself rebuke those who held a "high place" in the temples and synagogs(scribes,pharisees,chief priest).
Matthew 5:20 - For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven
Matthew 7:29 - For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
Matthew 23: 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, 6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mark 11:18 - And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.
Luke 11:44 - Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
John9: 39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. 40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? 41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
After the death and resurection of Jesus, an event took place which began the "Church" era. The event that took place was the pouring out of the Holy Spirit of God. The Spirit in which the understanding of the scriptures is known and confirmed.
Acts 2: 1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
From this point on the Apostles of Jesus Christ had the inspiration(the Holy Spirit) of God and they began to preach the WORD of God of how Jesus had come and fulfilled every prophecy of the Old Testament, and explained through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus the mysteries of salvation.
Acts 2: 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call Acts 2
The apostles went from place to place preaching the Gospel, and to every place they went a church was formed. The churches were to consist of true believers, and the instructions for the churches given by God to the apostels through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit were to guide the churches in truth of the Holy Spirit. The New Testament consists of those letters written to the churches, the accounts of Jesus, letters to other believers, and the book of Revelations which is an account of a vision that God had given John who was one of Jesus' disciples.
During this early church era we can see that the churches were already beginning to rebel against the whole cousnel of God (His command), and that the churches as a whole were warned to fully follow God. If the churches did not obey the instructions given by God then He would take the Holy Spirit out of their presence. And where there is no Holy Spirit, there can not be any salvation.
Revelations 1: 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Revelations 2: 1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; .... 4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; .... 13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. 14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. 15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate. 16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; .... 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
Revelations 3: 1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Revelations 2 & 3
It is a common theme for churches to get it wrong. Remember Martin Luther? The german monk who felt inclined enough to risk everything He had in the church and posted 95 thesis how the catholic church was following their own gospel, and not the gospel according to the Bible. The common folk in those days could not read, and the gargoyels on the churches were enough to create fear in those who were being lied to, and deceived.
Do you think it was a coincidence that a man with a passion to get the true Gospel out into the public, just so happened to run into a man who created the first printing press movable type? John Gutenberg and Martin Luther were from the same area of the world at the same period in history. And together constructed the first Bible ever printed, which ultimatly lead to the protestant religions. And the end of the dark ages.
I would consider everything up to this point in this study "Part 1" of a 2 part examination of the Bible, and the end of the world. I will continue with "Part 2" tomorrow, as of now I must get to bed.
Although I respect your intent and belief that you are talking about the bible, what you are actally doing is preaching. That seems to be a quite common mistake (technique) of advocates of whatever religion. Recognizing that I respect your religious belief, you press on with your agenda. My beliefs are not considered, other than an assumption that I have none or the assumption that mine (whatever they may be) are wrong. You are not debating, you are advocating. I hope you are not offended, your devotion to the bible does not constitute any sort of "proof" of anything other than your personal bent.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
You make a good point Bdgee. To many preachers and not enough willing to engage. I hate to see the bible used as a bulldozer. Many are turned away by well intentioned and very knowledgeable people who try to overwhelm one with verses that to the unknowledgeable are confusing.
The proof of the Bible is a life of care and compassion. Otherwise we are no different than the radicals that follow the Koran.
-------------------- If you don't have instincts, get out. If you do; go with them. Posts: 262 | From: Florida | Registered: May 2005
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quote: Although I respect your intent and belief that you are talking about the bible, what you are actally doing is preaching.
You are right, I am no better, I am in debt. Unless I had heard, I would never know.
Romans10: 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Ezekiel 3: 4 And he said unto me, Son of man, go, get thee unto the house of Israel, and speak with my words unto them. 5 For thou art not sent to a people of a strange speech and of an hard language, but to the house of Israel; 6 Not to many people of a strange speech and of an hard language, whose words thou canst not understand. Surely, had I sent thee to them, they would have hearkened unto thee. 7 But the house of Israel will not hearken unto thee; for they will not hearken unto me: for all the house of Israel are impudent and hardhearted. 8 Behold, I have made thy face strong against their faces, and thy forehead strong against their foreheads. 9 As an adamant harder than flint have I made thy forehead: fear them not, neither be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house. 10 Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, all my words that I shall speak unto thee receive in thine heart, and hear with thine ears. 11 And go, get thee to them of the captivity, unto the children of thy people, and speak unto them, and tell them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear. 12 Then the spirit took me up, and I heard behind me a voice of a great rushing, saying, Blessed be the glory of the LORD from his place. 13 I heard also the noise of the wings of the living creatures that touched one another, and the noise of the wheels over against them, and a noise of a great rushing. 14 So the spirit lifted me up, and took me away, and I went in bitterness, in the heat of my spirit; but the hand of the LORD was strong upon me. 15 Then I came to them of the captivity at Telabib, that dwelt by the river of Chebar, and I sat where they sat, and remained there astonished among them seven days. 16 And it came to pass at the end of seven days, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Romans 10: 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
posted
Consider the situation of those who are threatened by a very great hurricane or typhoon. People want to know, "Where will it make land fall?" That is, what is it's path over the ocean, and where will it begin and continue its devastation on land?
Then people want to know "How strong is the hurricane?" How much damage will it do? And the people in the path of the hurricane desperately want to know, "When will it make landfall?" How fast is it moving down it's destructive path?
Why are the people in the potential path of this hurricane asking these questions? The answer is obvious. They want to know how severely this approaching hurricane will affect their life and property. Furthermore, they want to know how much time they have to prepare before its destruction begins.
Likewise, people who are not ready for the return of Christ and the Judgement that will immediately follow must know the seriousness and the severity of the approaching end of time.
Matthew 24: 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. 45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Significantly when Jonah was sent by God to Nineveh to warn of impending judgment on that great city, he not only published that the terrible judgment was coming, but he also gave a percise time when the judgment would fall.
Jonah 3: 1 And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying, 2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. 3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey. 4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
In the experience of Jonah at Nineveh, we see the wonderful mercy of God in saving a great multitude of people. We can see the results of this salvation in how they responded to the warning in a God-pleasing way. Thus, the impending catastrophe was avoided.
Jonah 3: 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. 6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. 9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? 10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
We might recall that in Noah's day, the people of his world were given warning of the year of the Flood. But they remained in complete denial and perished in the flood. We have just noted that ancient Nineveh was given the precise day that total destruction would come upon them. They repented and pleaded for God's mercy. God did not bring destruction upon Nineveh, but He did bring horrific destruction upon the world of Noah's day.
Now, as we have already noted, the warning that the end of the world is almost here is making very, very little impact upon the peoples of the world. We would be very naive to beleive that the whole world of today would react to the news that God is almost ready to bring the world to an end!
Would today's world cry to God for mercy? Well, the bible informs us in Matthew 24:37-39:
Matthew 24: 37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
On the other hand, God also tells us in Revelation 7:9-14 that there will be a great multitude that will become saved during these closing years before the end of time.
Revelations 7: 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Even as the Ninevites reacted to the preaching of Jonah, and cried to God for mercy, so there will be this remnant in our world today who in total are the great multitude who will react to the terrifying news that, in a few years, the end will come. May it be that a great many people will cry to God for His mercy as they become aware that the end of time has almost arrived.
quote: You make a good point Bdgee. To many preachers and not enough willing to engage. I hate to see the bible used as a bulldozer. Many are turned away by well intentioned and very knowledgeable people who try to overwhelm one with verses that to the unknowledgeable are confusing.
The proof of the Bible is a life of care and compassion. Otherwise we are no different than the radicals that follow the Koran.
quote: Many are turned away
What is it that many are turned away from?
John3: 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
John1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Who shall save us from the impending wrath of Almighty Holy God?
Malachi 4:1 - For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Revelations20: 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelations 14: 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Matthew 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Isaiah 13: 9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Revelation6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Romans 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Again I ask, what is it that people are turned away from? And then who shall save us the wrath of The Almighty and Just God?
Isaiah 43:11 - I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Psalms 34:11 - Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the LORD.
Psalms 111:10 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Proverbs 1:7 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 2:1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; 2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; 3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; 4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; 5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
Proverbs 9:10 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Isaiah 45:21 - Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Hosea 13:4 - Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
Luke 2:11 - For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
John 4:42 - And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
Acts 5:31 - Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 13:23 - Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Philippians 3:20 - For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Timothy 4:10 - For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Titus 1:3 - But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
Titus 2:13 - Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Titus:3: 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1 John 4:14 - And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Matthew 11:15 - He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Psalm119:... 11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
15 I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways. 16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.
18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law. 19 I am a stranger in the earth: hide not thy commandments from me.
21 Thou hast rebuked the proud that are cursed, which do err from thy commandments. 22 Remove from me reproach and contempt; for I have kept thy testimonies.
25 My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken thou me according to thy word.
30 I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgments have I laid before me. 31 I have stuck unto thy testimonies: O LORD, put me not to shame. 32 I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart. 33 Teach me, O LORD, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end.
38 Stablish thy word unto thy servant, who is devoted to thy fear.
Luke4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Mark 4:9 - And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The great day of terror and wrath is upon the earth. The world is being prepared to face God and stand for judgement to answer for their sins and be found guilty.
Hebrews 3:15 - While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
2Peter2:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Romans1: 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Psalm 14: 1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.
I recommend reading the book "Time Has An End" by Harold Camping. It is an analytical study of the Bible and the time table of events relating to the salvation plan of God through-out history of the world, a must for any professing believer.
Philippians 2:12 - Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.Posts: 304 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jul 2005
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If God wrote the bible.. or even parts of it.. or even influenced those who wrote it... doesn't that conflict with "free will"? Yeah I guess God had nothing to do with the bible. I guess any sane man should be wary of any religion. Bible study is now over... Run along.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt Posts: 161 | From: Here | Registered: Jul 2005
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Although I respect your intent and belief that you are talking about the bible, what you are actally doing is preaching. That seems to be a quite common mistake (technique) of advocates of whatever religion. Recognizing that I respect your religious belief, you press on with your agenda. My beliefs are not considered, other than an assumption that I have none or the assumption that mine (whatever they may be) are wrong. You are not debating, you are advocating. I hope you are not offended, your devotion to the bible does not constitute any sort of "proof" of anything other than your personal bent.
Although I respect your intent and belief that you are talking about the bible, what you are actally doing is preaching. That seems to be a quite common mistake (technique) of advocates of whatever religion. Recognizing that I respect your religious belief, you press on with your agenda. My beliefs are not considered, other than an assumption that I have none or the assumption that mine (whatever they may be) are wrong. You are not debating, you are advocating. I hope you are not offended, your devotion to the bible does not constitute any sort of "proof" of anything other than your personal bent.
well posted
Amen Tex and Bdgee. No pun intended.
-------------------- If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all. Posts: 1529 | From: Tacoma WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote: If God wrote the bible.. or even parts of it.. or even influenced those who wrote it... doesn't that conflict with "free will"?
The Bible was written over a period of more than 1,500 years, from Moses' time (before 1400 B.C.) to the time of the Apostle John (about A.D. 100). The total number of human authors is at least forty. And yet, even though all these different men wrote at different times, the message they wrote is always the same, without any contradiction in any details. The reason is that God is the author, who used men to set down what He wanted to say. The human writers lived and died at different times, but the same God Who lives forever told each man what to write. For that reason, we are able to compare different parts of the Bible and find that they agree with, support, and clarify each other (I Corinthians 2:13). We can go to any part of the Bible and know it is consistently trustworthy.
Yes man has a free will. But man's will WILL NEVER play a part in salvation, it cannot.
When Man (sinned)disobeyed God, Satan became the ruler of Man, and man was cursed, and became dead, never to be sinnless on His own behalf again. Sin demands penelty, and the penelty of sin is death, and the death in view is eternal death(hell), which the Bible is very clear on.
Since we are all Adam's seed, we too are all under the same sin, and must answer to God for that sin.. therefore no matter how many churches tell you that you can reach out and "do something" (even believe) as an act of your own "free will" to secure salvation, be assured that YOU CANNOT.
If it were so and our will had any type of God pleasing atonement benfit then we could claim that Christ has done "most" of the work required, and I on behalf of my own free will must do the rest by believing. John 17:4 - I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Sadly most churches of today preach as though there is a choice one must make to be saved, and act as though they have made some choice to become saved, and countless churches are making disciples of that type of gospel - (the "free will" gospel) A gospel of works - self righteousness.
The Bible teaches that all men reject God
The Bible teaches that no man will receive God unless God has given Him ears to hear the Gospel, unless God has already saved Him.
The Bible teaches that God has predestinated certian individuals to salvation by grace, through faith,(and faith comes by hearing the Word of God) and others to face the penelty for thier sins by spending eterny in Hell under the wrath of God.
These are the doctrines of the true Gospel, these are what the Bible speaks of over and over and over again.
Galatians 3:22 - But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
1 Corinthians 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 Corinthians15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.6 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Matthew 22:29 - Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Luke 24:45 - Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
John 10:35 - If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Acts 17:2 - And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Acts 18:28 - For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.
Romans 15:4 - For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
2 Timothy 3:15 - And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Peter1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. Posts: 304 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jul 2005
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The most amazing internal evidences of the Bible's trustworthiness are the subjects that it discusses. The contents of the Bible, the things it talks about, are things that the Bible could say only if it were written by God. For example, the Bible states that Jesus claimed that He is God (John 10:30); the Bible states that Jesus' apostles claimed that He is God (John 20:28); the Bible states that the Father declared that He is God (Hebrews 1:8). The conclusion of this testimony is that either the message of the Bible is an insane and evil deception, or the message is true and the Bible is the only book of its kind. Another important example is that only the Bible talks about sin (I John 3:14). No man has the courage to write the accurate assessment of humankind that is described in the Bible. The Bible presents a horrible picture. It offends us, and we are not happy to read it. This explains why we find it so hard to believe that the Bible is true. The problem is not with the evidence but rather with our hearts. Who wants to know that he is a miserable, rotten, no-good sinner? Who rejoices at being told that he is headed for hell, where he will suffer under the eternal wrath of God? Who welcomes the knowledge that there is no good in him at all and that he is in rebellion against the God Who made him? Only God can be honest with us because only He knows the truth. Only God is willing to be honest with us as an expression of His love. Real love is not expressed by the words of people who try to make us feel good by means of vain flatteries, but leave us in our situation because they have no real hope to offer. Real love is expressed by the truth because it is the only thing that can help us. The Bible's honest word-portrait of humankind is not appealing. However, the Bible contains the words of a real Friend. God knows we are walking on the edge of a cliff ready to fall into hell. He tells us exactly what we need to know to avoid this peril. Even though the Bible is not going to show up on the list of the ten most popular books of the year, only the Bible can make and keep a promise such as "Come unto me all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light" (Matthew 11:28-30).
Posts: 304 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jul 2005
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Either the Bible's account of creation or the theory of evolution is the accurate description of the origin, function and appearance of the physical universe. They cannot both be true.
a. Physical death
Evolutionists claim that physical death is normal event. It is their view that death is part of how the universe works. Evolutionists insist that death is a necessary function, which contributes to the change of living things, as over time, only the fittest survive. In contrast to that, the Bible states that physical death is not part of the original design and plan of the universe. That is partly what the Bible means when it states that the universe was perfect and good (Gen. 1:31). The Bible teaches that death came into the universe some time after God created it, as part of His curse in response to sin (Rom. 5:12). Although the theory of evolution does not speak to the question of life after death, focusing only upon this physical universe, most evolutionists teach that all living things (plants and animals as well as people) cease to exist after death. In contrast to that, the Bible teaches that physical death is not just the termination of people's physiological process but it is an enemy of sinful men (I Cor. 15:26). Far more than just separating them from any blessings they might have in this life, physical death is the last event most people experience before they face judgment and the second death of eternal wrath in Hell (Heb. 9:27). Clearly, we cannot reconcile the claims of evolutionists with the teaching of the Bible. Both cannot be true.
b. Chance
Evolutionists insist that random changes of the genetic code, together with the selection of these changes over a long period of time, resulted in all the plants and animals we see today. On the other hand, the Bible states that every detail of the universe was created according to God's wise purpose and careful plan (Psalm 104:24, Jer. 10:12), and that He continues to sustain it today (Matt. 6:26,30, Col. 1:17, Heb. 1:3). Either one view or the other is true.
c. Finished work
Evolutionists insist that plants and animals have evolved in the past and continue to evolve at present. However, the Bible teaches that creation is finished and complete work of God (Ex. 20:11). With careful breeding, it is possible to produce varieties in plants and animals today. But the different breeds reveal the built-in pool of characteristics with which God originally designed living things in order to help them adapt and survive. However, there are limits to the variety of appearances and abilities a breeder can draw out from one kind of plant or animal. Furthermore, breeding never changes one kind of plant or animal. Furthermore, breeding never changes on kind of plant or animal into another kind. The reason is that God fixed the characteristics of living things when He finished His works at creation. We may choose to believe either one view or the other. But both views cannot be true.
d. No third choice
As we can see, it is not possible to take parts of both views and come up with a unified concept that reconciles them. Some people want to believe that God created the world, but are at the same time impressed with the arguments of the evolutionists. These people hold to a notion that God created by means of evolution. For example, some people believed the word "day" in Genesis 1 to be a long age. But the same word is used in Exodus 20:11 to mean a 24 hour day. Also, according to Genesis 1:12 and 16, plants were created a day before the sun was created. But a long age such as a million -year "day", would result in the death of all plants, which depend upon the Sun to live. The attempt to mix up the two views, an idea called "theistic evolution," it is not fair to either side. We must be honest and choose one view or the other. We cannot hold to both.
4. We must live with our choice.
Our choice to trust in the Bible or in the theory of evolution shapes what we think and do. In other words, the Bible's account of creation and the theory of evolution are known by their "fruit," that is, by the attitude and actions the two views produce in the lives of those people who believe in them.
a. The spiritual and moral consequences of choosing the theory of evolution. People who choose to trust in the theory of evolution believe that there was no Garden of Eden, no Adam, no sin, no Fall, no curse, and therefore no need for a Savior. Also, they believe that since the universe began billions of years ago, it will continue for billions of years more. They conclude that they do not need to be concerned about Judgment Day at the end of the world, and so do not need the protection of a Savior.
People who choose to trust in the theory of evolution believe that there is not God, as described in the bible, to whom they are accountable. They believe that there is no one to declare what is right and wrong. They believe that there is no one to whom they must give an answer for their thoughts, words and deeds, which differ from the ethical and moral absolutes described in the Bible. They believe, instead, that they can set standards for their own lives based upon what they think and feel is right in their own eyes. They also believe that standards which govern behavior between people are negotiable and are dependent upon the situation at hand. Furthermore, they believe that no standards are permanent, that standards, which shape human relationships, must change as times change. Their objective is to live selfish, indulgent and immoral lives, and they delight in a naturalistic, godless theory, such as evolution, that gives people the intellectual basis to ignore their consciences and suppress the truth of God's Word. Unfortunately, they are left with a life that has no meaning or purpose, which leads to aimlessness, despair and insanity. And even more frightening they are left to face God on Judgment Day, when they will have to answer for they have thought, said and done. The theory of evolution recognizes the amazing complexity of human anatomy and physiology. But the theory of evolution teaches that a human is really just a bag of chemicals with structure and function that is the end result of a series of random biological changes. The theory of evolution teaches that people are at best no more than complex animals. Therefore, we should not be surprised if people act like animals and treat others as if they were, too. In other words, evolution promotes the bleak perspective that there is no reason to care about the needs and interests of others because life is a battle for survival. Evolution cares nothing for the individual, but instead is concerned with the survival of the species. It teaches that the universe discards weak individuals as it relentlessly marches forward to an unknown destiny. Evolution, then, is the foundation for the ruthless and merciless treatment of others, resulting in racism, genocide, abortion and euthanasia. Some people have used the logical consequences of the theory of evolution to justify such horror as eliminating an "inferior" group of people for the purpose of promoting the survival of the "superior" species.
b. The spiritual and moral consequences of choosing the Bible's account of creation
People who by God's grace choose to trust in the Bible's account of creation understand that God is sovereign over the universe and that they are accountable to Him for what they think, say and do. Those people rejoice in the message that the Creator Himself, who could cast everyone into Hell for rebelling against Him, who could be embarrassed and repulsed by their weaknesses and needs, has instead sacrifices His only Son to Save all those who trust what He says and walk obediently with Him (Rom. 5:8). Those people know God subjected the universe and its inhabitants to His curse in response to sin (Genesis 3:17, Romans 8:20-21). They also know that God cares a great deal about the universe. He has designed and continues to fulfill a wonderful plan for what He has made (II Peter 3:13). The Bible tells of God's tenderness toward His creation (Psalm 104) and His concern for each detail (Matthew 6:26, 10:30). The Biblical account of creation is a story of real hope because it tells us of a God who loves and cares for what He made. People who by God's grace trust in the whole Bible, including the Bible's account of creation, understand that God is their Creator and has authority over their lives. They understand that God has created them for a purpose and that there is real meaning to their lives (Rom. 12:1,2, I Peter 2:9). They see other people as unique and valuable creations of God (Acts 17:26, Heb. 2:6,7). Therefore, they are willing to serve God gratefully and care for others with kindness and sacrificial love (Eph. 4:32, I John 4:19-21).
5. It is always a choice of faith.
Science is the collection of knowledge based upon the study of observable objects and phenomena in the physical universe. Scientific analysis results in a conclusion, based upon those observations, which conforms to known laws governing the appearance and behavior of the universe. Scientific analysis also includes a test of that conclusion of order to discover whether or not it is false. Therefore, when we seek to understand events that occurred long before anyone observed and documented them, we are not making a scientific investigation. What we say about the undocumented past, whether based upon the imaginations of men or upon the words of the Bible, is a matter of faith and not science. Some people claim that we can study history as science. They say that we can measure present effects of past events. But the study of the undocumented past is not really science because we can never know for sure if we have all the facts or if we have analyzed the data properly. We can never demonstrate whether our collection of historical knowledge is true. We can make educated guesses about the past based upon the study of circumstantial evidence by linking possible past causes to what we see today. We can put those guesses together and call them a theory. That is certainly appropriate, and our theory can serve as a model to help us understand the past. But we can never verify the link between the past because of present effects. We can make analogies by comparing events with which we are presently familiar to our estimation of how things could have been in the past. But as accurate as our understanding is of something that we can see today, we can never be sure that the comparison we make is valid. Studying a present phenomenon is science. However, applying what we learn about the phenomenon to an unreachable past event by meant of an analogy is not science. It is a guess. Guesses by themselves are never science, no matter what we want to call them.
a. Evolution is not scientific because it makes statements about times, places and events that have never been nor ever will be observed or measured by men. That is why it is only a theory and not fact. The question of what happened "billions" of years ago is not based on scientific observation but on assumptions and speculation. Therefore, the evolutionary view of natural history is a theory and can only be a theory. It can never be a fact. In addition, the theory of evolution is not scientific because the analyses evolutionists make of present day observations based upon that theory lead to conclusions that violate known scientific laws, as we shall see in section 6 of this booklet. Furthermore, evolutionists never honestly face a test but simply modify their theory to accommodate new information whenever their conclusions about the universe are shown to be wrong. That is, the theory of evolution is never held accountable for the many wrong conclusions it causes its followers to make. Because the theory of evolution is not scientific, evolutionary scientists must simply believe that things have evolved, and exchange a trust in God as revealed in the Bible with a trust in the inherent properties of material things.
b. Evolution is a religion:
The theory of evolution is a religion because it makes statements about God. Evolutionists begin with the scientifically unverifiable assumption that there is no Creator, that He is not necessary to the existence of the physical universe. Also the theory of evolution is a religion because it makes moral statements. Evolutionists teach that the material universe is all that there is. Since the physical elements from which the universe is constructed have no morality, they decide that there is no standard in the universe for judging conduct. According to the theory of evolution, the only guided of behavior is the need to survive, regardless of the consequences the struggle has on someone else. In addition to that, the theory of evolution has the form and structure of a religion. Colleges and universities are its temples of learning which preserve its sacred books. Evolutionary scientists are its clergy, who protect and preach its dogma in journal, popular periodicals and television programs. Evolutionary scientists guard their theory with religious zeal. The passion and emotion with which evolutionists defend their theory against the presentation of creation reveals that they really do recognize the weakness of the man-made structure of the theory of evolution. Scientific evidence demonstrates that evolution contradicts the facts and that the Bible's account of creation is the more reasonable explanation of what we observe. Therefore, evolutionists must suppress the evidence, which demonstrates the weakness of the theory of evolution. Evolutionists must resort to convoluted and contradictory arguments in defense of their theory, to biased and false presentations in support of their idea, and to direct attacks upon anyone who opposes them. Their derision and wrath is swiftly visited upon other scientists who "heretically" present the view of creation, lest those who teach creationism undermine the message of evolution and "pollute" the thinking of the masses, whose support evolutionists desire and need.
c. Two faiths
Evolutionary thought is not an objective, neutral, unemotional scientific statement about the universe in which we live, but rather it is a dogmatic statement of faith motivated by a deliberately antagonistic attempt to suppress and supplant the Bible's message of creation by the hand of God. Evolution is a product of the deeply rooted rebellion in men's hearts. Evolutionists desperately cling to their theory because they seek some justification for their claim that the Bible is untrustworthy. They hate the fact that it declares God to be their Creator who has supreme authority over their lives. Nor do they want to hear or acknowledge that they must answer to their Creator for all their wicked thoughts, words and deeds. Therefore, the theory of evolution is a man made religion that competes with and seeks to supplant the gospel of the Bible. Evolutionists insist upon the exclusive loyalty of the hearts and minds of men, and so does the God of the Bible. In Hebrews 11:3 we read "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." That is, our understanding of God as the Creator and Sustainer of the universe and all that it contains is a matter of faith. We must trust that what the Bible says about the origin of the universe is true, the only truth. What a person chooses to think about the origin of the universe is not fundamentally a result of human measurement and research. It is not a result of human logic. It is not a product of human debate and consensus. A person's choice is a matter of the heart. It is a matter of trusting either the wisdom of man or trusting in what God has revealed in His Word. Therefore, each man's choice of the object of his allegiance reveals his faith (Josh 24:15).
6. One choice is better scientifically
The Bible's view of creation is the best explanation of the physical universe because it conforms to the basic scientific laws that describe and govern the physical universe. The theory of evolution contradicts those laws. Also, the Bible's account of creation agrees with observable evidence while the theory of evolution disagrees with much of it. These claims are substantiated at length in many books written by scientists who have degrees from respected universities and who have experience in many different fields of research. In this short discussion we shall point out only a few of the scientific reasons that make the Bible's account of creation more reasonable and believable than the theory of evolution.
a. Laws
Scientists make many conclusions based upon their observations. As time goes by and new observations are made, their conclusions are compared to the new data to see if they are still valid. Sometimes they find that a conclusion does not agree with the new information. If the conclusion fails the test, it must be abandoned or modified. Sometimes scientists find, after many comparisons, that a conclusion appears to continue to accurately describe the appearance and behavior of what they see in the universe. When a lot of time goes by and their conclusion remains valid for all situations they can think of, they grow more confident in it and eventually call it a law. That law, which is potentially subject to revision, does not have an authority equal to the eternal statements of God found in the Bible. Nevertheless, some laws of science have correctly described the basic form and function of the universe so well and for so long that we can make a good judgment as to whether creation or evolution is more reasonable when we compare both views to those laws. Let us look at a few of those laws. The universe is full of matter and energy which are constantly changing from one form into another. For example, when we eat a sandwich some chemical energy is changed into heat energy. When we ride a roller coaster, our energy of position changes into energy of motion and back again. There is a law of science that states, even though lots of changes can take place, the total amount of energy and matter before something happened is equal to the total amount of energy and matter after it happened. No new energy or matter is created or annihilated. In simplest words, this law states that you cannot get something from nothing. There is nothing in the universe to cause new energy or matter to appear. The first law has never been observed to be violated. This first law might help us investigate transfers of matter and energy, but it tells us nothing about how matter and energy originated in the first place. In fact, this law does not even tell us if the universe had a beginning. However, this law means that if the universe had a beginning, it could not have created itself. It could have come into existence only because of a power outside of itself. In this busy universe full of energy changes, sometimes things get close to each other or bump into each other and exchange energy or matter. During the exchange, some of the energy is changed into heat. For example, the chemical bonds in a sandwich break during digestion and the released heat energy warms our bodies. The wheels of a roller coaster rub against the metal track and produce heat through friction. There is another law of science that states if we observe something happening and record all the exchanges in energy that take place, we will find that the total amount of matter and energy is the same before and after, as it should be, but that some of the energy has dissipated into the surroundings as heat energy. The important thing to notice is that the heat energy can never be gathered together again or changed into a form to do something useful. A sandwich is used up and cannot be replaced with the same chemical energy, some of which has been distributed to the surroundings as heat. A roller coaster will never keep going forever. Instead, it will slow down as the energies of position and motion are lost to heat through friction. The conclusion is that, as time goes by, more and more energy in the universe is being changed into a useless form, that is, into scattered heat energy. This second law has never been observed to be violated. One implication of this second law is that, if we wait long enough, eventually all useful energy will leak away into heat and nothing more will happen. The universe will be dead. Another implication is that, in time past, the universe had a lot more useful energy. Evolutionists claim that the second law could be set aside if we consider a system in which energy comes in from the outside. They point to the Sun's radiation falling upon the Earth as an example. They claim that such an input of energy accounts for all the complexity we find on the Earth. But that is not so. Energy into a system, by itself, actually makes the destruction described by the second law occur more rapidly. Raw energy input, such as the Sun's radiation upon the Earth, breaks things down and does not build things up. Evolutionists claim that the second law could be set aside if we consider a system in which energy comes in from the outside. They point to the Sun's radiation falling upon the Earth as an example. They claim that such an input of energy accounts for all the complexity we find on the Earth. But that is not so. Energy into a system, by itself, actually makes the destruction described by the second law occur more rapidly. Raw energy input, such as the Sun's radiation upon the Earth, breaks things down and does not build things up. Evolutionists claim that a living plant or animal is an example of a system in which the second law does not apply. But that is not so. The second law is valid even for a living thing, which uses raw energy and builds itself up. The living thing must work to counter the deterioration, which the law describes. But doesn't that work show that the second law is not valid for living things? No. A living thing can do useful work only if it has been given instructions, which is found in its DNA, and if it has been given the mechanism in some of its cells, such as chlorophyll in plants, for changing the raw energy it gets into a form that it can use to grow and maintain itself. The second law is an important companion of the first law. Together they are a big witness against evolution and a big support for the Bible's statements of creation. According to the two laws, not only is it impossible to get something from nothing, but also what we get as time goes by is less useful to us that before. In short, the universe is wearing out. In the image of a clock, the two laws together state that the universe is running down and it can't rewind itself, if it was wound up. That is, the second law says that the universe had a beginning and the first law says that the universe did not create itself. These laws point to the hand of someone outside of the universe, to a Creator. We shall mention one more law. It is similar to the first law, but applies only to living things. The Earth is full of many kinds of living things. The Earth is full of many kinds of living things, but we observe that living things can only come from living things. For example, kittens come from mother cats and corn plants come from the corn seeds of previous corn plants. Similar to the first law, which states that we can't get something from nothing, another law states that life cannot come from non-living things. According to this law, which has never been observed to be violated, life can only come from pre-existing life. Evolution states the universe is becoming more complex and more useful. But the laws of science, together with the Bible, state that the universe is running down and is becoming less useful (Psalm 102:25,26). Evolution states that the universe had no beginning. But the laws of science, together with the Bible, state that the universe had a beginning, when it was a lot better off, more able to keep things going, like living things (Gen. 1:31). Evolution states that at one time lifeless chemicals changed into life. But the laws of science, together with the Bible, state that life can come only from a life-giver (Psalm 104:29,30). Clearly the Bible's account of creation is a better choice.
b. Observations
We learn the size, weight, composition, behavior and many other concrete and specific facts about objects in the universe through observation. It is true that what we notice and remember about objects in this universe can be affected by our prejudices, ignorance and lack of experience. Therefore, our observations about the universe are not as trustworthy as the statements of God in the Bible. Nevertheless, there are many observations to which we may compare both the account of creation in the Bible and the theory of evolution in order to see which view best fits the facts as we know them. Let us look at a few simple, common observations. Our common experience tells us that objects and phenomena in the universe have origins and causes. We observe the leaves of a tree move and think about the lightning or the careless match that started it. We observe that there is always a cause to everything that happens or exists. The theory of evolution does not agree with that observation because it insists that if we could go back in time, we would never find a first cause but that all things just are, without a cause or reason. In contrast to evolution, the view of creation is that all things have an origin. And if we go back in time, we would see that all things in the physical universe exist because God is the first cause. Our observations also show that all phenomena and objects in the universe have design. Things in the universe display their design in their amazing complexity. Things in the universe display their design by their design by their intricate structure and the provision given to them in order to fulfill a useful purpose. Things in the universe display their design by their interdependence upon each other and how they cooperate with each other. One good example of design is the human eye. The human eye is made of many parts. Each part, the cornea, the iris, the retina, all the fluids and nerves, among others, are precisely constructed to perform a specific function. Not only must each part by made right, but also all of the parts must work together and in coordination with the optic nerve and the brain to enable someone to see. A slight change in any part or a slight change in how one part connects with other parts results in poor vision or blindness. One thing to keep in mind is that not one of these parts is able to see. An eye is really a collection of non-seeing parts. Unless all of the parts of the system are in place and working properly together, the whole system does not work at all and is useless. In fact, a sightless non-functioning eye is detrimental to an organism because it can be a source of injury and infection. This means that the whole system could not have waited around as a useless organ for millions of genetic accidents to accumulate in order to produce a complete eye. The only honest scientific conclusion is that the intricate detail and precision of the seeing eye shows great wisdom in design and shows purpose of structure and function. This and many more examples, such as a bird's wing, which is a complex structure that provides flight only in coordination with all the other parts of the bird, are clear witnesses to the creative hand of God. Another good example of design is the amazing relationship between two kinds of fish. One kind is the small black and yellow French angel fish. They hide in coral because they are often eaten by larger fish. The other kind is the larger yellow-tailed Goat fish. They eat smaller fish. Goat fish sometimes swim near coral and change their color to pink. That tells the angel fish it is safe to swim out and eat the parasites, which are attached to the Goat fish. The Goat fish wait patiently to be cleaned but do not eat the smaller fish. When the Goat fish change color again, the smaller fish return to the safety of the coral. This relationship could never have happened by chance because on kind of fish is a predator and the other kind is a predator's lunch. Furthermore, if such a behavior was accidentally learned by one particular pair of French angel and Goat fish, the new relationship could never have been passed on to following generations. This, and many more symbiotic cooperative relationships, show the design of God's wise, caring and purposeful work of creation. One more example of design is found in the genetic information found in a DNA molecule located in the cells of living things. Segments of the long DNA molecule, called genes, contain instructions in code for making all the proteins a cell needs. The structure of a DNA molecule and the process that is required to make proteins according to the code they contain is so complex that it could not have come together by random chance trial-and-error chemical reactions. It is also important to know that the information in the DNA is stable. The genetic codes do have instructions for some variety, such as differences in skin color, body size and other physical features. But the variety is always limited. For example, moth populations can change in color and dogs can be bred to change in size. But the organisms are always the same. Moths are always moths and never some other creature. Dogs are always dogs and not half dog and half some other creature. The limitations in the changes that organisms display from one generation to another are a testimony to the built-in genetic variation, which is a marvelous design that allows living things to adapt to changes in the environment. That is, different breeds do not mean new information is created, but that some genetic information is emphasized over other information. The idea is that living things cannot evolve into something else because the DNA message limits the amount of change that can take place. Living things are fixed into kinds as the Bible states you can't get something from nothing. Sometimes, but not very often, when the DNA message is copied so that it can be passed on to the next generation, mistakes are made. These mistakes are called mutations, which evolutionists claim result in new kinds of living things. However, years of observations have shown that mutations are either of neutral value or almost always harmful. For example, a protein that is too different from previous proteins, because of a mistake in copying the DNA instructions needed to build that protein, would interfere with the function of a living thing and possibly lead to its death. A mistake in copying the codes is another example of the second law of science we talked about before. A copying mistake is an example of a less useful situation in the form of a loss of information, just like a typographical error doesn't add a new message to the letter but makes the original message harder to read. Mistakes do not add useful information but are a loss of information. Mistakes do not result in a new message but distort the original message. For example, mutations in fruit flies always result in more fruit flies, many times disables fruit flies or dead fruit flies, but fruit flies nevertheless. This is a testimony to the accuracy of the Bible which states that one kind of life comes only from the same kind of life (Gen. 1:21,24,25) and that life is deteriorating (Eccl. 3:19,20), to which the genetic mutational load that living things must bear is a witness. Even though they do not help us directly answer the question of origins, we must briefly discuss fossils because the theory of evolution depends so much upon them. Fossil evidence strongly supports the Bible's account of creation and clearly contradicts the theory of evolution. In fact, the fossil evidence is an embarrassment to evolutionists for at least two reasons. First of all, in rocks that evolutionists call the oldest fossil-bearing rocks, are found fossils of complex life forms, such as sponges, corals and mollusks, much like they look today. Amazingly, in rocks considered even older, not a single indisputable multi-cellular fossil has been found. Therefore, according to the fossil record, these complex life forms had no ancestors, since the fossil remains of their ancestors are absent. The evidence agrees with the Bible, which states that life in all of its variety came into existence suddenly. Secondly, according to the theory of evolution, the rocks of the earth should contain fossils of thousands of transitional life forms. In fact, if over millions of years plants and animals have been evolving, we should see more fossils of in-between types. Evolutionists are so desperate to find them that the few they have promoted have been disqualified or proved to be a fraud. In fact, the history of anthropology is, sadly, littered with dishonest claims. For example, the remains of one famous ape-man, used in the famous Scopes trial to support the claims of evolutionists who wanted to discredit the Bible's account of creation, was later shown to be a tooth from a pig. There are many more observations we could highlight that reveal the truth of the Bible's account of creation and contradict the theory of evolution. Some observations do not point directly to the fact of a Creator, but demonstrate that the universe is quite young, thousands of years rather than billions of years old as the theory of evolution requires and demands. Observations concerning comets, the amount of Helium in the Earth's atmosphere and the amount of nitrates and minerals in the oceans are a few examples of these kinds of observations. However, these kinds of observations point only indirectly to the existence of a Creator, so we will no discuss them in this booklet. Besides, as we have mentioned, there are excellent articles in other books, thoroughly and clearly written, which present detailed discussions of these and other observation, such as the use of radioactive decay in assigning ages to objects, the validity of the Big Bang theory, the nature of the source of the Sun's energy, and much more.
c. Science education and scientists
Sadly, the theory of evolution, which is often taught in schools as fact, is illogical and contradicts observations. It is bad science. In fact, it is anti-science because it contradicts laws, observations and obvious cause-and-effect relationships. Also, the theory of evolution forces students to work under the burden of unscientific assumptions and speculations that steer them away from more productive lines of investigation, as well as closes their minds to more insightful patterns of thought. For example, no too long ago evolutionists considered many human organs, such as the appendix, to be evolutionary leftovers, useless and dispensable. For a while students of anatomy were taught and willingly received these ideas. However, more careful study subsequently has shown that the organ performs important functions. The appendix is now recognized to be part of the immune system. In contrast to that, the Bible's account of creation promotes good science. Recognizing the clear witness of an intelligent cause of the complex and fascinating universe, Bible-believing students of science expect to discover order, purpose and design in all that they study in the universe. Also, they are interested to learn more about the Person who made it. True believers are curious to learn how God made His universe so that they praise Him for all He has done. It is important to them how the universe now works so that they can give Him the glory for all that He continues to do. Incidentally, evolutionists claim that no real scientist would be a creationist. However, many of the greatest scientists have testified to their trust in the Bible and the God who wrote it. These scientists refused to follow the non-scientific thinking of people who have insisted on promoting the theory of evolution. Men of the past, upon whose work the science of today is founded, who believed in the Bible's account of creation, include Isaac Newton, Robert Boyle, Michael Faraday, Louis Pasteur, Henri Fabre and Clerk Maxwell among others. Clerk Maxwell was quite familiar with the claims of evolution and rejected it as a clear-thinking Bible-believing scientist. Many men and women of today have been trained in the sciences at well-known universities and confidently trust in the Bible's account of creation, despite enduring prejudice and slander of evolutionists. Evolutionists also claim that creation-scientists do not publish valuable work. But the fact is that creationists are denied publication of their work because evolutionists control the editing staff of all scientific publications. So creationists must publish their studies through private means.
7. In Conclusion
Even though the answers to the questions about the beginning of the universe are a matter of faith, God asks us to believe only in what is believable. There is no value in faith in itself. Faith only has value when we believe in what is true. Any notions men many have about the origin of the universe which differ from what the Bible states are inventions of their minds and do not correspond to the real world. What men propose about the origin of the universe is a leap of faith in stories that are unreasonable and unsustainable by scientific investigation. On the other hand, all statements found in the Bible, no matter what the subject, are faithful accounts of what is true. We should never feel that we must apologize for what the Bible states happened "in the beginning." We should never be afraid to stand boldly for the historical accuracy of the Bible in the face of the prominent and fashionable attempt to invalidate it by means of the theory of evolution. People who challenge the accuracy of the historical details of the Bible and its relevancy to men's lives are false prophets whom we must not heed. As we have said before, our primary focus as believers must not be upon science but upon the Bible. However, we must remember that this is our Father's world. He who created the universe also wrote about it in His Word, the Bible. And what we learn from God's universe through an honest and accurate study of the physical world is in perfect harmony with whatever we learn from the Bible, and strengthens the validity of the Bible's description of the origin of the universe. It may be that we do not have sufficient training to answer every evolutionary attack with an analytical scientific argument. That does not really matter. A little child who trusts in all that the Bible says is far wiser than any scientist who believes his learning is superior to the Bible (Psalm 19:7). The point is that we can be certain that science is not a threat to a trust in what God says in His Word, the Bible. We can be confident that what the Bible says about the origin and destiny of this universe, as well as what it says about our souls, is absolutely trustworthy.
We can say with the Bible,
"By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. For he spake, and it was [done]; he commanded, and it stood fast" (Psalm 33:6-9)
"O LORD, how manifold are thy works! In wisdom thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches." (Psalm 104:24)
"Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for though hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." (Rev. 4:11)
there is a commonly known law of physics that says enrgy cannot be lost or gained, only transferred..
death is just another change....
you are extrapolating way too much outa the Good Book...
i suggest that God intended for us to learn the work and do the work...
how do you force a child to grow up? make them deal with their problems instead of "taking care" of the problems for them.... thats how you avoid raising spoiled brats.. i see a lot of them around..like in the oval office for starters...
sitting around and saying the problems will all be fixed on the next coming would pi$$ me off if i was God... roll up your sleeves..
"if you wanna change the world, shutcher mouf and get on with it"
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote: i suggest that God intended for us to learn the work and do the work...
how do you force a child to grow up? make them deal with their problems instead of "taking care" of the problems for them.... thats how you avoid raising spoiled brats.. i see a lot of them around..like in the oval office for starters...
sitting around and saying the problems will all be fixed on the next coming would pi$$ me off if i was God... roll up your sleeves..
Glassman, I know you are well educated in what you know about science. I have read your post carefully, and considered everything you have said. I can understand your view of God and science. But what I don't understand is the reasoning, and basis for such.
What I mean is, where do you come up with these ideas? Such as, "i suggest that God intended for us to learn the work and do the work..."
I understand, it does make a bit of sence to our logical mind to say that humans should be responsible for what they do and think, and have been given position enough to change the way we think and live because of what the laws of science have revealed to us(something we can depend on that is always true). I guess that would be saying that in this marvelous creation we are here to study and examine phenomena to understand the relationship between all things, and God. (Am I on your chain of thought?)
Ok, if that is the REASON for what we have become then is that what we are to devote all of ourselves to? To understanding science? (just humble questions, trying to get on your page) Do you suggest that if/when we are able to have scientific laws which back up the faith based theory of evolution of the origin of life on this planet that we will be more wise in our own conceit? And that some how will bring us closer to God?
It would be reasonable to say that your suggestion is indeed a religion, which takes much blind faith to believe. Maybe because of what you have seen, heard, and know you understand your suggestion as the truth. And I guess that could be said for everybody with beliefe. Much like the article above showing the extreme unliklihood and impossibility that the process of evolution/mutation as the origin of Man and beast could be true, based on concrete scientific laws, the theory of evolution fails miserable.
When we look at those same scientific laws it is overwhelming how believable it makes all the statements in the Bible. When we study the Bible carefully it is terrifying to see the flawless detail written of within. No scripture of the Bible contridicts any of the rest of Bible, but instead amplifies seriousness of sin, judgment, and mercy, and the accuracy of scripture. Which can only PROVE that it is what it says it is "the Word of God"
The scan below will show you an example of how absolutly perfect, and accurate the whole Bible is in its historical, and spiritual message.
The spiritual meaning of the numbers come from the context the numbers are most frequently used. Such as 40. The number 40 in the Bible is always used spiritually as a period of time which represents a "testing".
Exodus 24:18 - And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.
Exodus 34:28 - And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Deuteronomy 8:2 - And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
Luke4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
Jonah 3:4 - And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
We can conclude that 40, if it has any spiritual significance it is a number used within the Bible to represent a "testing".
All the numbers presented show to have significant spiritual meaning such the number "12" as a "fullness"
Mark 3:14 - And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
Matthew 26:53 - Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
John 11:9 - Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
Revelations 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
Revelation 21:12 - And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Do you begin to see the perfection of it all? Can you see that it would be impossible for man to cunningly devise such precision? The dates recorded above are right out of the Bible, it takes much Biblical genealogical study to get the correct dates but the Bible does provide the precise dates from creation to the time of Jesus. And going back to correct our current calender and correcting the few small errors made we have a percise time table of the history of the world, which harmonizes entirly with everything else the Bible teaches.
Do you see it is either ENTIRELY ture, or not true at all? The problem with saying it is not true, is that it proves itself to be true by everything it claims. Its harmony cannot be broken.
John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Luke 21:33 - Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
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what i'm telling you is to understand the Word..it's quite simple really... there aren't any complicated rules... "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" sums it up pretty well dontcha think?
and then? go fix something instead of spending all yer time re-reading it and preaching it...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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This is good debate. But there is the problem. I am no expert, but debating the BIBLE will come to no end. It is simple. You believe it or not. To try and understand GOD is futile. No human can or never will. I do believe in it. Yes, I believe in creation, not evolution. But how long was a day in the beginning, I cannot answer. I think my son put it best. Fish don't walk and the chicks at school didn't come out of the trees. One day we will all answer for the paths we have taken. Hopefully the right ones.............
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1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. I am guilty of not being as compassionate and patient as I should have been, I am sorry.
Matthew22: 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21 - He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 15:12 - This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
1 Corinthians 4:14 - I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
21 What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?
It is a true believers responsibility that once He has truth, He is to publish it, to preach it, to get the message out. (Matthew 10:27, Matthew 24:17 , Luke 17:31, Isaiah 21:6, Ezekiel 3:17, Ezekiel 33:6, Jeremiah 6:10, Acts 20:31, Colossians 1:28, Hebrews 11:7)
God commands true believers that when we see the churches over run with Satan(which we see now) that those who are preaching the Gospel are to continue preaching the Gospel, and are NOT to go back into the churches to look for more truth, else they will be judged with the churches. Instead they are to trust and depend only on His Word. (Matthew 24:15-18, 1 Peter 4:17)
I agree with you glassman, I mean not only is it relieving to simply "love others as yourself" and to WALK in the spirit of God, it is were true peace is found. Remember that walking in the spirit of God, requires believing the Spirit of God, and one can beleive only when they hear the truth. And how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:14 )
That is why it is so important to understand the TRUE Gospel(the whole counsle of God, the whole word of God) Just like the Psalmist says in Psalm 119: 4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently 5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes! 6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
15 I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways. 16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.
24 Thy testimonies also are my delight and my counsellors.leth.
63 I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts
67 Before I was afflicted I went astray: but now have I kept thy word.
73 Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments. 74 They that fear thee will be glad when they see me; because I have hoped in thy word.
89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. 90 Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth. 91 They continue this day according to thine ordinances: for all are thy servants. 92 Unless thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine affliction.
93 I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me. 94 I am thine, save me: for I have sought thy precepts.
You are right to point out the simple "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
Colossians1: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Posts: 304 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jul 2005
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...Posted by profet ........the proof of the Bible is a life of care and compassion. Otherwise we are no different than the radicals that follow the Koran.
Hi profet, Um, just to let you know, Sadamm Husein is not a follower of the koran, He had no religion, his top aid was a christian, and with the help of the christian government of the USA, poisoned thousands of peoplle to death. Now that is radical. Wake up you brainwashed fool.
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Any religion that tells you who or what God is... what God wants.. or what waits for you on the other side is infact practicing idolotry. Clear and simple. Man is incapable of understanding any part of what God is or what God wants... therefore any man who tells you he knows is wrong... I don't care if it is in the Bible or not.. don't care about the koran... don't care about Hindus or Bhuddists... they are all wrong. The stupid Bible tells us that man was created ten thousand years ago... or so... we know for a fact this is false as we have scientific proof that man was scampering around this semi-spherical ball of Fe for alot longer than that.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt Posts: 161 | From: Here | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote: Some people claim that we can study history as science. They say that we can measure present effects of past events. But the study of the undocumented past is not really science because we can never know for sure if we have all the facts or if we have analyzed the data properly. We can never demonstrate whether our collection of historical knowledge is true. We can make educated guesses about the past based upon the study of circumstantial evidence by linking possible past causes to what we see today. We can put those guesses together and call them a theory. That is certainly appropriate, and our theory can serve as a model to help us understand the past. But we can never verify the link between the past because of present effects. We can make analogies by comparing events with which we are presently familiar to our estimation of how things could have been in the past. But as accurate as our understanding is of something that we can see today, we can never be sure that the comparison we make is valid. Studying a present phenomenon is science. However, applying what we learn about the phenomenon to an unreachable past event by meant of an analogy is not science. It is a guess. Guesses by themselves are never science, no matter what we want to call them.
quote:The end of the world in 2011!
When did god make all the dinosaur fossils?
quote:The "probably" end of the world in the year 2011. Start on page 3 of this thread and read through all the post. (Suggested Reading: Time Has An End)
The Bible says in Genesis 7:11:
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Here is the first clue that speaks to the question of mid-ocean ridges and paleo-magnetic anomalies. The gigantic proportions of the Noachian deluge would have left tremendous scars on the ocean floor of such openings of the fountains of the deep. As water poured forth, basaltic lava also must have poured forth as happens with volcanoes today.
Thus, the great rifts in the ocean floor originated. For forty days enormous quantities of lava and water flowed from these fissures. Simultaneously, the earth was deluged with new water from deep space. The rate of deposition of the new water approximated that which would cover the entire earth to a depth of 100 feet per 24-hour period. Obviously, this changed the equilibrium of the earth’s internal forces. Variations and reversals of the earth’s magnetic pole were occurring at a time rate of hours or days. As each day’s volume of the deep earth magmas poured from the earth’s deep ocean rifts, the mid-ocean ridge was built up. Thus, the lava poured down the ridge slopes and solidified at increasingly great distances from the rift source. As the lavas cooled, they cooled with the earth’s magnetic vector frozen within them. Additionally, great mountains were built as the earth came back to equilibrium. These processes caused further magnetic anomalies.
When the waters first struck the earth as it began to move through the great deep-space rain cloud, temperatures on the other side of the earth must have plummeted. In some areas animals by the thousands were instantly frozen by the first great temperature oscillation. As the waters rose they were buried in huge cakes of ice that covered hundreds of miles. Animals and insects by the millions were instantly buried, sometimes singly and sometimes in great twisted masses as the flood waters continued. Never before or since did conditions even remotely approach the possibility of fossilization that existed in these destructive days.
And then, as abruptly as it had begun, the deluge ended. The awesome rain of forty days stops. The earth was stressed to its very foundations by the fantastic magnitude of pressures and imbalances placed upon it by the new water. Already changes were taking place. The ocean basins were deepening. The mountains began to thrust higher, and, as the water settled into the ocean basins, the land was torn by the receding torrents. The floor of the ocean at the continental edges became deep with sediment. The ocean water was heavy with sediment so that most of the ocean floor had some sediment build up. Sedimentary rock, pockmarked by fossils, became abundant everywhere. The pressures of the flood waters upon water-deposited sediment produced ideals conditions for such rock development. Huge pockets of plants buried under thousands of feet of water and silt, and further compressed by gigantic mountain-building stresses, became fossilized into oil and other hydrocarbons.
As the water left the continental mass, it became evident that the whole face of the earth had changed. Huge areas were covered with ice because the world-wide temperature had drops 20-30 degrees F. Severe oscillations of temperatures continued for possibly hundreds of years. Therefore, some of the ice fields would recede and grow again repeatedly.
There was still one feat continent, or possibly two, hooked together and separated on one side by the so-called Tethys Sea. Possibly, the continent was smaller after the flood due to the waters rising over the low-lying continental slopes, and the first evidence of what is now the Atlantic Ocean was seen. Great deposits of sediment were placed at the edges of the continents as the water receded from the continents. The oceans themselves contained much sediment in suspension so that for a number of years sediment accumulation occurred at an abnormally high rate all over the ocean floor.
Why should we conclude that there was no continental division as a result of the flood? Several reasons suggest themselves. First secular evidence suggests polar wandering or paleo-magnetic reversals much earlier than that produced by continental drift. The effects of the flood, without continental movement, could account for this. Secondly, the Bible gives no intimation of continental division occurring as a result of the flood. Thirdly, a single continent at the conclusion of the flood provides a very satisfactory solution to the problem of animals and man occupying every continent.
Those interested in the science study that is the likely explanation of the historical accounts recorded in the Bible check out: Adam When?
quote:...Posted by profet ........the proof of the Bible is a life of care and compassion. Otherwise we are no different than the radicals that follow the Koran.
Hi profet, Um, just to let you know, Sadamm Husein is not a follower of the koran, He had no religion, his top aid was a christian, and with the help of the christian government of the USA, poisoned thousands of peoplle to death. Now that is radical. Wake up you brainwashed fool.
That wasn't posted by me, and I was never concerned with Sadamm Husein. The rest of your post... well you make reference to the "our christian government" hmmm, I do not see our government fearing and trembeling at the Word of God, I wouldn't call them christian. There may well be true believers in our government, but there is no way for us to know.
Posts: 304 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jul 2005
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When any of us purchase a computer or any complicated piece of equipment, the device normally comes with instructions concerning its use. In very similar fashion, God has given the earth to mankind. But, He, too, has provided and instruction book to assist us in realizing the greatest blessings as we live on this earth. In His divine mercy and wisdom, He gave this book to mankind. This book is the Bible.
The instructions given with the purchase of a sophisticated instrument, or even a simple piece of furniture that must be assembeled before it can be used, usually do not describe the object's density or chemical composition or any other intricate details concerning the materials used in the manufacturing of the purchased product. Hopefully, however there is enough information given so that maximum usage and enjoyment of the equipment can be obtained.
Similary, God, in His instruction book the Bible, does not give us details of the chemical composition on of any of the billions of objects He has created. He, in His instruction book, does not give details concerning electrons and radiomagnetic waves. but He does tell us how and when this universe came into being (Genesis 1:1 ; John 1:1-3). He does tell us how to best relate to everything God has created so that we can have the most blessed life (Deuteronomy 30:19-20; Matthew 11:28-30). Indeed, the Bible is an exceptionally extraordinary instruction book that the Creator of all things has given to us!
Not only has the God of the universe given these intstructions in the Bible, He has aldo created mankind with and ability to read and have some understanding of these instructions. Thus, we should begin to see that the Bible is supremely imprtant.
If a complex instrument like a computer is given to an individual who has no instruction whatsoever in the science of computer technology, and no instructions come with the computer, what is the likelyhood that he will ever benefit from the use of that computer? It is more likely that, in a short time, he will have destroyed that computer he made all the wrong attempts to make it work.
Likewise, mankind, without the instruction book the Bible, cannot achieve the security, and happiness he desires. Fact is, the Bible shows that if anyone follows the rules of the Bible, there is a possibility he can have the absolute highest blessing and happiness. That lessing is to become eternally a child of God, serving Him and reigning with Him for evermore (Romans chapter 8). Truly we must realize that the Bible is a super-supremely valuable book of instructions that God has given to mankind. What a pity that people do not want to carefully read this instruction book.
We might take note that sometimes instructions manuals that come with complex objects are difficult to understand. The more complex the instrument is, the more likely it will be that the instructions may be difficult to follow. Thus we should not be surprised when we discover that the Bible is difficult to understand. The bible gives us information about infinite God who has no beginning and who spoke and brought this world into existence (Psalm 147:4-5; Isaiah 48:12-13; Colossians 1:16-17; 1Timothy 1:17). The Bible speaks about God's perfect justice that demands eternal damnation for those who violate even the smallest of God's rules (James 2:10-12). It also describes a love in which God Himself, in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, made payment for sin on behalf of the rebellious humans He came to save (John 3:14-16, 10:11-15) You will recall that God created mankind to serve God perfectly (Matthew 5:48; 1Peter 1:15-16). Yet, without the impartation of salvation by God to man, mankind is doomed to fall short of the perfection God demands (Romans 3:23). Thus, instead of having the highest blessing and maximum happiness, man ends up un the wrath of God, under eternal damnation (John 3:36. The Bible tells us that when God saves a man, He removes rebellion from the heart of man (Ephesians 2:12-17), so that once again, he can serve God acceptably (Hebrews 12:28).
As sinful humans, we cannot understand these awesome actions of God. We only argue and exclaim that we cannot trust the Bible. For example, we may contend that the Bible cannot be any more trustworthy than any other book that calls itself the Word of God.
However, God comes to the rescue! God can cause people to approach the Bible very humbly, recognizing that it is God Himself who is speaking (Psalm 65:4; Jeremiah 30:2; Romans 2:4). God Himself can work in the minds and hearts of men to make them begin to understand more clearly the instructions given in the Bible (Psalm 119)
This does not mean that those to whom God begins to give understanding of the Bible will become experts in Bible truth, increasingly being able to clearly understand each and every verse of the Bible (2 Peter 3:16-18). Rather is means that those who are assisted by God, in the person of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:9-10), to understand the Bible will primarily and most importantly begin to understand that they are sinners who unquestionably deserve the eternal wrath of God as payment for their sins (Ezra 9:6; Psalm 119:9; iTimothy 1:15). And they will increasingly understand that only God Himself, in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, can make payment for sins (1 John 1:8-2:2). Of all the truths set forth in this instruction book, these may be considered to be the foundational if other truths of the Bible are to be understood (Hebrews 5:13-6:2).
How wonderful that God has given us such a magnificent instruction book! What a pity that most people do not want to carefully read it!
But much more must be said about the Bible. We shall see next that it is the supreme law book of the universe.
The Bible is the Supreme Law Book of God
The peoples of the world have little or no awareness of the fact that the Bible is a law book. Even amoung serious Bible students, the same ignorance of the Bible exists. However, in this study, we will see that the Bible reveals its major character as a law book. For example, in it God sets forth laws, decrees, ordinances, statutes, and commandments by which God governs. The Bible sets forth rules and principles mankind is to obey for the service of God (Deuteronmony 10:12-13, 31:24-26; Micah 6:8).
Suprisingly, God Himself has made Himself subject to the same laws to which mankind is subject. In Psalm 138:2 we read:
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
This remarkable and surprising citation spoken by God Himself and given as a tenant of God's holy Law informs us that God Himself is subject to the Word of God. The Word of God is the Bible, which is the Law of God. The words "laws," "statutes," "dcrees," "ordinances," and "commands," ect., are synonyms found many hundreds of times in the Bible. For example, in the longest Psalm of the Bible (Psalm 119), which has more than 170 verses, we see that virtually each and every verse makes reference to the Law of God. The Bible (the Law book) stipulates how each human being is to conduct himself. The King, who rules over mankind and who has established the laws by which he is to live, is God Himself. He created this world together with mankind to bring praise and glory to Himself as the matchless Creator (Deuteronomy 4:32-40; Romans 11:36; Revelation 4:11). He created mankind in His own image and likeness and placed him in a beautiful perfect universe (Genesis 1:27-2:9; Isaiah 45:18).
However, because mankind was created in the image of God, God immediately established laws by which mankind was to live as they serve God as their King (Psalm 97:7-10a). If humans were to continue in the perfection in which they were created, they would have to continue to be as righteous as God Himself is righteous (Matthew 5:45-48). They therefore, would have to perfectly obey all of the commands set forth in God's Law book (Galations 3:10).
Therefore, to test man's fidelity to God, God immediatly set up the testing arena by which our first parents -- Adam and Eve -- could be tested. God had already begun to lay down laws by which they were to live as God's servants. They were placed in a beautiful garden and commanded to dress(till) it and keep it (Genesis 2:15).
But, also in the beatiful garden, God placed a tree, giving it a very intriguing name: "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" (Genesis 2:9b). God gave Adam and Eve the command that they could eat of every tree in the garden, but in the day that they would eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil they would surely die. Genesis 2:16-17:
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Already therefore, in the second chapter of Genesis, we can understand that God is the God of law. He sets forth the laws b which mankind is to live, and also indicates that penalty which will be placed on the law breaker. To these first laws given to mankind in Genesis chapter 2, God eventually added many hundreds of additional laws. All of these laws are recorded in the Bible, the Law book of God.
The establishment of the law also requires the prescribing of penalties for breaking the law. The law given to Adam called for death as the penalty for breaking the law (Genesis 2:17). As God continued to write His Law book the Bible, God became more and more specific as to what that death was. It was not physical death. It was a death far more terrible. When God created man in His own image, He created mankind to live forever even as God continues to live forever (Genesis 3:22). However, God's Law book, the Bible, also sets forth the principle that when man sins (breaks the Law of God, 1 John 3:4), the penalty is eternal damnation. Mankind will still exist forever in the future, but instead of living in the highest good and happiness, they are to be punished for their sins by being cast in Hell for all eternity as payment for their sins (Jeremiah 17:4; Matthew 25:46; Luke 12:5; Romans 2:7-8, 6:22-23; Revelation 14:11).
God has established the law and has decreed the punishment He requires as a consequence of breaking that law. But also required is a judge to adjudicate the matter. The Law book (the Bible), therefore tells us who the judge is. The Judge is God Himself, who created man and who established the law, In Psalm 7:8, God declares:
The LORD shall judge the people....
In Psalm 9:8 the citation is given:
And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness. However, is there is a judge who must the world, there must be a trial at which judgment will be made. God describes that tiral in 2 Corinthians 5:10:
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
This trial will take place at the end of the world. We read in John 12:48:
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
We see therefore that the trial will occure on the last day of this world's existence. To know more about this trial we can turn to Revelation 20:11-12. where we read:
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
How to Escape the Wrath of God
Thus far, then, we have before us some basic truths that show that the Bible is a law book. Since all mankind have sinned against God, all mankind stand guilty and can expect to receive punishment for that sin (Romans 2:3, 3:19). However, the Bible also discloses to us that there is a way of escape from the wrath of God. That way of escape is also an integral part of the law of God.
Remember earlier we learned that God Himself is subject to this same law book. He is the way of escape that has been set forth in the law book. The Bible decrees that since Christ is God, He has to carefully and meticulously carry out all the Bible says about how this way of escape would occure. This is very important because Christ Himself as very God is the One who is to be the Savior (Isaiah 43:11; Luke 2:11; John 17:1-4; Hebrews 1:1-3,8). He is the One who must bear the enormous wrath of God in order to provide the means by which this way of escape will operate (Isaiah 53:6; Romans 3:24-25; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1Peter 3:18). We are also delighted to know that this is all spelled out and set forth in the law book (the Bible) and that God Himself must perfectly carry this out because He has placed Himself under the law.
The way of escape is the gospel of God's grace (Ephesians 2:8). It is the good news of salvation (Hebrews 2:3a). It is a plan by which God's perfect justice is perfectly satisfied (Romans 3:23-26). It is a plan by which there will be many who escape the consequences of their sins(Isaiah 53:11). Instead of being cast into hell on the last day, they will end up in the highest bliss forevermore as sons of God reigning with Christ in the new heaven and the new earth (Roman 8:16-18; 1John 3:2; Revelation Chapter 21).
As we have learned from Psalm 138:2, the Word (the Law) of God is above His name. Therefore, when God in His great wisdom designed His plan of salvation, the Law of God could not be set aside or violated in anyway. Sin was sin. The wages of sin was death (Romans 6:23a). The death God has in mind consisted of those who were guilty of sin being eternally damned to Hell. The way of escape rigorously had to meet all of the requirements demanded by the Law of God.
When we carefully analyze what was required by God's Law as satisfaction or payment for the sins of those God would save, the solution is beyond our wildest imagination. It is an incredible act of God's love, and mercy, and grace. Only an all-wise and perfect loving God could conceive of such a plan and carry it out to fulfillment. In so doing, He must keep the Law of God perfectly.
The plan called for finding a substitue or stand in for guilty man. That substitue would have to meet the following very rigorous qualifications.
1. He must be a human being because it was humans who rebelled against God, by transgressing His perfect laws (1 Corinthians 15:21) 2. He must be a perfect human being without any sins of his own (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1Peter 2:21-22). 3.He must be able to bear an enormous load of sin because every sin of every indivdual for whom he would become a substitute would have to be laid on him. He must bear the guilt for each and every one God intended to save from the wrath of God (Isaiah chapter 53; Romans 5:11-19; 1Peter 2:24). 4. He would have to be an indivdual who was able to endure a super enormous punishment for the sins that were to be laid on him and not be utterly and forevermore consumed in his attempt to pay for those sins (Romans 4:25; 1Corinthians 15:20-22). 5. He had to be entirely willing to experience this horrible wrath of God that He Himself, being a perfect person, did not deserve (Matthew 16:21-23; Luke 22:41-42; 1Peter 3:18).
Could such a person be found? God's perfect righteousness demanded that the rescue plan for sinful man could not violate in the slightest degree any part of the Law of God. The Bible reports that God looked for such an indivdual but none could be found. In Isaiah 63:5 we read:
5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.
Of course, such a qualified person did not exist anywhere. Remember we read in Romans 3:10-12:
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Given this sad fact, that there could not be a human anywhere that could begin to provide the way of escape, God Himself had to do the impossible. God Himself, in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, took on a human nature (Philippians 2:5-8). Christ, who, by God, is called the Son of God, also became the Son of Man. By being born of Mary (Matthew 1:18-25; Galations 4:4-5), He took on a human nature. He thus met the qualification of being part of the human race. He Himself, however, had no sin. We read in 2 Corinthians 5:21:
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
God the gave to Christ all those whom God has chosen to save (to experience this way of escape from hell). We read in John 6:37:
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
In John 17:2, we read that, as Jesus is praying, He declares:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
However, in order for Christ to have these who were given to Him eternally, He had to provide payment for their sins. Otherwise, they would have to first spend eternity in Hell to pay for their sins. Since eternity is forever, Christ would never be able to take them into heaven as His own. Therefore, the sins of these individuals, every dirty, rotten, awful, one of them, were laid on Jesus Christ who had been named by God to be their Sustitue or stand in. Again note 2Corinthians 5:21:
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
We read in Isaiah 53:5-6:
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
The "us all" in these verses are all those who God had elected to be His people and who had been given to Christ by the Father (John 17:2,9, 11-12,24). The Law book (the Bible) further declares in Ephesians 1:3-7:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Since Christ was the substitue provided by God to satisfy the demands of God's Law book on behalf of those whom God planned to save, Christ had to be and was altogether willing to endure a punishment that would be equal to that which should have been endured by each and every one whom God had elected to become saved (Hebrews 9:26b-28). Only because Jesus never ceased to be God is it possible for Him to carry out this enormous requirment (Isaiah 63:5; Luke 22: 41-42; John 10:28-30.
The trial of Jesus was about to begin. The Judge was God Himself. But in God's perfect justice, the Judge must also be represented by a human judge. God selected Pontius Pilate who represented Ceaser, the highest rulers of the world in that day, to be the judge (Matthew 27:2). Jesus is to be brought to trial to discover His guilt or innocence. Only God knows that Jesus is terribly guilty. Only God can see all the sins of which Jesus has become guilty because each and every sin of each and every person whom God had given to Christ had been laid upon Him (Isaiah 53:6). Fact is, Jesus could have never returned to heaven unless full payment had been made for every one of those sins (John 17:1-5; Hebrews 1:1-3).
What a terrible situation! Jesus realizes the enormous punishment He must bear to satisfy the perfect justice of God. There could be no lessoning of the punishment demanded by God's Law. There could be no pity or mercy shown Christ. He was guilty before God's perfect Law. Gow was under the Law of God (the Bible) so that He had to perfectly exact a punishment that would be completely equal to that which should have been endured by each and every of those who God had elected to salvation. That punishment was the fact that each of them should spend an eterinty in hell.
Now wonder, as Jesus is prepairing to go before Pilate, the sweat is pouring off His body like great drops of blood to the ground (luke 22:44). no wonder He prays in astonishment, "Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me" (Matthew 26:39). The cup is the cup of God's wrath that He must endure until the payment for each and every sin that had been laid on Him had been made (Mark 14:23-24; John 18:11).
No one will ever know the awful suffering Jesus was beginning to suffer. We do not know how God was punishing Him (Isaiah 53:10). We obtain a little insight as we see Him hanging on the cross. The cry is wrenched from His lips, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matthew 27:46). We will never understand the supreme horror of God forsaking God. For Christ suffered, He never ceased to be God (Matthew 27:54; Philippians 2:8-11). He was nailed to a cross to show the world that He had become cursed by God. We read in Galations 3:13
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
As wee see Him in the Garden of Gethsimane, piteously praying that the cup of God's wrath might pass from Him, we also see His perfect obedience, His perfect willingness to be the Substitue as He declares, "not my will but thine be done" (Luke 22:42b) Christ was the perfect willing Substitue.
He was also the perfectly capable Substitue. Before the daylight hours ended that Friday afternoon, we hear the wonderful words from the lips of Jesus from the cross, "It is finished" (John 19:30) He, for sin, had fully paid the penalty demanded by the Law of God. The Law of God had been fully satisfied. God could now legally forgive the sins of those whom God had elected to become saved (Isaiah Chapter 53; Romans 5:11-19).
We thus see that as God provided a way of escape for the elect of God so that they would never have to stand for judgment, the perfectly righteous justice and integrity of God was perfectly maintained (Romans 3:26). In 2 Corinthians 5;10 we read that every human being has to stand before the judgement seat (Greek: bema) of Christ. When Jesus stood before Pilate to receive the condemnation of God for the sins that had been laid on Him, the same Greek word (bema) is used by God in describing Pilate's judgment seat (Matthew 27:19; John 19:13).
Thus, by Jesus having been found guilty for sin and making payment for sin as God brought His wrath on Him, the requirements of 2 Corinthians 5:10 (that each and every person must be tried before the judgment seat of Christ) was completely satisfied for His elect. That is why God can declare in Romans 8:1
There is therefore now now condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus...
That is why the Law also declares in Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
The word "temptation" in this verse should be translated "trial". This verse is assuring true believers in Christ that they will never be brought to trial. This is so because Christ as their Substitue has already stood for trial on their behalf.
We thus should see that the whole context and message on the Bible is very legal. It is no wonder the Bible repeatedly speaks of itself as the law.
However, one of the major messages of the Bible -- that it is the law book -- is frequently obsured because of the complex language God uses. It is also obscure by the numerous historical events that are recorded throughout the Bible. But when we begin to understand that the Bible is a law book, we can be greatly helped in our understanding of phrases that are otherwise very difficult and complex. We also are helped in our understanding of those historical events that are recorded all through the Bible. Invariably we find that sin brings judgment. This is true whether it is a sin of a wicken nation like Babylon (Jeremiah Chapters 50 and 51), or sin taking place in a holy place like the temple in Jerusalem (John 2:13-17), or in the local congregations at the end of the church age (Jeremiah 6:10-19; Matthew 24:15). The more clearly we understand the Bible to be a book of law, the more clearly we will understand the otherwise more difficult parts of the Bible. Of course, we must never forget that it is only God who can lead us into any truth (John 14:6, 16:13, 17:17). "Time Has An End" By Harold Camping
Hebrews 2:3 - How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
quote:Romans 8:1 There is therefore now now condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus...
Correction: Romans 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus... Posts: 304 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Jesus would not drop bombs on little brown skinned children, just because he felt it was the right thing to do,
Posts: 348 | From: seattle | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Profet you were not concerned with sadam husein? Ju st like the other christians who did busness with him at ther expence of the Iraqi people. thanks for your concern.. not .
Posts: 348 | From: seattle | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Jesus would not drop bombs on little brown skinned children, just because he felt it was the right thing to do,
because he felt it was the right thing to do.... You know that reminds of all of the WWJD objects I have seen this decade. What would Jesus do and feel? Do you know that the Bible is the only accurate account of Jesus we have and know? Now I ask, what DID Jesus do?
Luke 4:18 - The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised
John 4:34 - Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
Luke 4:43 - And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.
Matthew 18:11 - For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Matthew 26:2 - Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
Luke 22:42 - Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
What is the USA really doing in Iraq? I ask myself that every time I turn the TV on. What resolve could we possibly offer to a nation that has been torn religiously for hundreds and hundreds of years. To my understanding we favor 1 of the 5 islamic groups that have have been waging war on each other for many many years.
"We are going there to show everybody affected by the terrible event of 911 that we are doing something" .... "We are going there because they have Weapons of Mass Destruction"... "Well we couldn't find any so no we are going to liberate 1 group of people from the rest in the country"... "We will win this war on terror"...
Sure, what ever that means.
quote:Profet you were not concerned with sadam husein? Ju st like the other christians who did busness with him at ther expence of the Iraqi people. thanks for your concern.. not .
Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Posts: 304 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jul 2005
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