posted
Liberals are now looking into impeaching Rove - investigating whether high Bush officials, like Rove, can be impeached.
Glasmann and Purl Gurl have said things like Rove compromised our national security, is a criminal and a traitor, and other liberal lies.
Plame was not an undecover agent, as defined by the law prohibiting revealing names of CIA undercover agents. Plame and Wilson were working together and were Kerry supporters against the idea of toppling Saddam - Plame (not Cheney as Wilson later lied to congress about) instigated the CIA to send her husband Wilson to Niger, and wanted him to dispel the notion that Saddam was trying to get uranium. This is in contrast to the fact that Saddam had earlier (in the 90's) sought to do just that. If anyone has acted improperly in all this, it is Plame and Wilson.
And what about Sandy Berger who violated national security laws, illegally sneaking out and taking home classified documents for the purpose of obstructing a congressional investigation and influencing the outcome of an investigation?
Oh, he was a democrat not a republican.
What about Hillary Clinton who stole and locked classified material about JFK's wrongdoing (that were more serious than Nixon's Watergate) in order to obstruct justice?
Oh, she was a democrat not a republican.
When the demos do wrong they get a pass.
When the Repubs do nothing wrong, they get crucified.
The negative do-nothing-but-obstruct-and-destroy politics of liberals is sickening. Read glassman's and Purl Gurl's posts to see what I mean.
Liberals are part of the problem, not of the solution.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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I said Rove is a traitor, and he is. Rove chose to compromise the security of one of our CIA agents. That is federal crime and is treason.
Rove's history is full of crime. His crimes are documented and factual just as are crimes committed by Bush.
Problem with Bush is his daddy secreted away all documentation into his presidential library. Documentation of Bush's crimes are now sealed and unavailable to the public, in the interest of national security.
Give me a break.
Bush is harboring a traitor, all know this, just as we know Bush lied when he told America he would "fire" anyone leaking sensitive information. Rove is still standing right behind Bush, whispering in Bush's ear. Bush is a liar, proven many times.
Simpson is murderer. Blake is murderer. Jackson is a child molestor. Under law, said innocent as a result of fancy lawyers, not justice.
Rove is a traitor. Bush is a liar. Spin doctors are hard at work tainting the minds of those who would judge them; America.
I am an Okie. I firmly believe in Oklahoma justice. We don't pay any mind to the lies of lawyers anymore than we pay mind to lying politicians. We look at facts and judge accordingly. Fancy words are for are fooling the ignorant.
Rove is a traitor. Bush is harboring a traitor.
In nineteen-fifty Oklahoma, both would have already been hung, justifiably so.
Posts: 7504 | Registered: Dec 2003
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McCain, hundreds of other American soldiers were tortured to gain military secrets. None talked. Many died.
Rove gives away our country's secrets simply for the benefit of Bush's political aspirations, in this case, as punishment for showing Bush to be a liar about Iraq.
McCain endures years of torture, never talks.
Rove, such a cowardly traitor. He betrayed our country for political benefit, with no torture.
What does Bush do? He protects Rove. That, in my mental system of justice, makes Bush a traitor.
Posts: 7504 | Registered: Dec 2003
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Art: Plame was not an undecover agent, as defined by the law prohibiting revealing names of CIA undercover agents.
glassman: who are you to define what Plame's position is? NOBODY.... i patiently await the descision of the qualified people.. part of the problem here is that the President himself is the one who is supposed to make the call in these cases, and he obviously has a conflict of interest...
Art: - Plame (not Cheney as Wilson later lied to congress about) instigated the CIA to send her husband Wilson to Niger, and wanted him to dispel the notion that Saddam was trying to get uranium.
glassman: i suppose you were there at the meetings held by the State Dept and the CIA when the desision was made to send Wilson?... i think you are in lalalaland....you imagine yourself in the halls of power?
here is a more factual account... Tim Phelps and Knut Royce in July, 2003. They reported on July 22 that:
"A senior intelligence officer confirmed that Plame was a Directorate of Operations undercover officer who worked 'alongside' the operations officers who asked her husband to travel to Niger.
a statement by wilson himself: on July 13 of this year, David Ensor, the CNN correspondent, did call the CIA for a statement of its position and reported that a senior CIA official confirmed my account that Valerie did not propose me for the trip:
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Contrasting this, some would call for Flora Homma to be prosecuted. Not so. We all know she was the meanest, most murderous woman in Eagletown history.
However, if you are stupid enough to come close to Flora, you deserve what you get. We were told to keep distance from Flora. If she trottled one of us, that was his fault, not hers, because he chose to contest her by coming close.
On her murder of a husband. He was known to be a mean abusive drunkard. He needed killin'. None care because justice was served to him.
If a farmer down the route was caught with another's cow, chances are we would call for his hanging.
We know what is right, and what is wrong, despite what laws might indicate, otherwise.
In Oklahoma, Simpson would be executed, Blake would be executed, Jackson in prison for life, and Rove, publically hung with fanfare.
Posts: 7504 | Registered: Dec 2003
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Source: Rove said reporters told him of CIA operative's identity
Friday, July 15, 2005; Posted: 6:43 p.m. EDT (22:43 GMT)
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Chief presidential adviser Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he talked with two journalists before they divulged the identity of a CIA officer but that he originally learned about the operative from the news media and not government sources, according to a person briefed on the testimony.
The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of grand jury secrecy, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist Robert Novak that Valerie Plame, the wife of a harsh Iraq war critic, worked for the CIA.
Rove testified that Novak originally called him the Tuesday before Plame's identity was revealed in July 2003 to discuss another story.
The conversation eventually turned to Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, a former ambassador who was strongly criticizing the Bush administration's use of faulty intelligence to justify the war in Iraq, the person said.
Rove testified that Novak told him he planned to report in a weekend column that Plame had worked for the CIA, and the circumstances on how her husband traveled to Africa to check bogus claims that Iraq was trying to buy nuclear materials in Niger, according to the source.
Novak's column, citing two Bush administration officials, appeared six days later, touching off a political firestorm and leading to a federal criminal investigation into who leaked Plame's identity. That probe has ensnared presidential aides and reporters in a two-year legal battle.
posted
yeah, this is typical of how Rove operates too..
he's good...there have been numerous instances where he has allowed/encouraged journalists to make mistakes and let them run with them long enough to look dumb....
the interesting thing about this case? Cheney's office was the first one accused (way back last year)...now it is Rove, and (in spite of certain uninformed claimants) Plame was classified covert by the CIA....
Judith Miller is in jail refusing to talk.....
we know that NUMEROUS journalists were "leaked" whatever the data was...we still don't know who did it...
so? by the time we get the truth? there will have been so many rumors that everybody will be sick of hearing about it... Rove has used this technique successfully for most of his career..disinformation ...
Rove gave written permission to the journalist who had HIS name on the e-mail to reveal his source.... so Rove did engineer this little bit of the story... can't wait to what's next..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by keithsan: LOL- cant argue with that-
everything rove says is an engineered lie, which he's been doing for life.
Just cant argue with that. I get this argument from europeans on the war with Iraq "Bush just wants to kill everybody"
you shrug and walk away.
let me ask you this Keith...
which matters more?
the facts, or the perceptions?
you may recall last election where i said i couldn't vote for Bush again (that is AGAIN Art) simply because the rest of the world has no respect for him... and that i was concerned that if we re-elect him we would end up paying a terrible price in world opinion....
the argument against that is "who cares" right?
the thing is? most of the world DOES care, and just under half the US voters DO care...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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the worlds opinion on clinton was poor, same with bush the first and reagan, before that i was too young.
The europeans I know and meet here, don't like and haven't liked american policies. Including democratic ones. War just brings out the protests. They protested Clinton in Kosovo and actually I had more complaints about that war and still.
I disagree that the world cares, I think they would be more than happy to see the U.S faill and have higher taxes and 16+% unemployement, like their countries. Nobody likes the country on top, you like the nascar driver on top? they hate armstrong.
When i started spending time in Europe clinton was president, he was disliked and the media was laughed at for making a big deal out of banging a 20 year old.
Hasnt changed, now they hate bush and think americans are stupid for voting for him.
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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Art: Plame was not an undecover agent, as defined by the law prohibiting revealing names of CIA undercover agents.
glassman: who are you to define what Plame's position is? NOBODY....i patiently await the descision of the qualified people..part of the problem here is that the President himself is the one who is supposed to make the call in these cases, and he obviously has a conflict of interest...
Art: Valerie Plame was at a desk job for over the last five years - not working in the field. This excludes her as an undercover agent, as defined in the law prohibiting the release of names of CIA undercover agents.
Art: Plame (not Cheney as Wilson later lied to congress about) instigated the CIA to send her husband Wilson to Niger, and wanted him to dispel the notion that Saddam was trying to get uranium.
glassman: i suppose you were there at the meetings held by the State Dept and the CIA when the desision was made to send Wilson?... i think you are in lalalaland....you imagine yourself in the halls of power?
here is a more factual account... Tim Phelps and Knut Royce in July, 2003. They reported on July 22 that:
"A senior intelligence officer confirmed that Plame was a Directorate of Operations undercover officer who worked 'alongside' the operations officers who asked her husband to travel to Niger.
a statement by wilson himself: on July 13 of this year, David Ensor, the CNN correspondent, did call the CIA for a statement of its position and reported that a senior CIA official confirmed my account that Valerie did not propose me for the trip: [/QB][/QUOTE]
Art: Your "factual account" is ludicrous. Funny you should quote Wilson whose testimony before congress is a public record of his lies. Now for some reality, that blows your account out of the water:
By Susan Schmidt Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, July 10, 2004; Page A09
Former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, dispatched by the CIA in February 2002 to investigate reports that Iraq sought to reconstitute its nuclear weapons program with uranium from Africa, was specifically recommended for the mission by his wife, a CIA employee, contrary to what he has said publicly.
Wilson last year launched a public firestorm with his accusations that the administration had manipulated intelligence to build a case for war. He has said that his trip to Niger should have laid to rest any notion that Iraq sought uranium there and has said his findings were ignored by the White House.
Wilson's assertions -- both about what he found in Niger and what the Bush administration did with the information -- were undermined yesterday in a bipartisan Senate intelligence committee report.
The panel found that Wilson's report, rather than debunking intelligence about purported uranium sales to Iraq, as he has said, bolstered the case for most intelligence analysts. And contrary to Wilson's assertions and even the government's previous statements, the CIA did not tell the White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in President Bush's January 2003 State of the Union address.
Yesterday's report said that whether Iraq sought to buy lightly enriched "yellowcake" uranium from Niger is one of the few bits of prewar intelligence that remains an open question.
The report turns a harsh spotlight on what Wilson has said about his role in gathering prewar intelligence, most pointedly by asserting that his wife, CIA employee Valerie Plame, recommended him.
Plame's role could be significant in an ongoing investigation into whether a crime was committed when her name and employment were disclosed to reporters last summer.
The report states that a CIA official told the Senate committee that Plame "offered up" Wilson's name for the Niger trip, then on Feb. 12, 2002, sent a memo to a deputy chief in the CIA's Directorate of Operations saying her husband "has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity." The next day, the operations official cabled an overseas officer seeking concurrence with the idea of sending Wilson, the report said.
Wilson has asserted that his wife was not involved in the decision to send him to Niger.
"Valerie had nothing to do with the matter," Wilson wrote in a memoir published this year. "She definitely had not proposed that I make the trip."
Wilson stood by his assertion in an interview yesterday, saying Plame was not the person who made the decision to send him. Of her memo, he said: "I don't see it as a recommendation to send me."
The report said Plame told committee staffers that she relayed the CIA's request to her husband, saying, "there's this crazy report" about a purported deal for Niger to sell uranium to Iraq. The committee found Wilson had made an earlier trip to Niger in 1999 for the CIA, also at his wife's suggestion.
The report also said Wilson provided misleading information to The Washington Post last June. He said then that he concluded the Niger intelligence was based on documents that had clearly been forged because "the dates were wrong and the names were wrong."
"Committee staff asked how the former ambassador could have come to the conclusion that the 'dates were wrong and the names were wrong' when he had never seen the CIA reports and had no knowledge of what names and dates were in the reports," the Senate panel said. Wilson told the panel he may have been confused and may have "misspoken" to reporters. The documents -- purported sales agreements between Niger and Iraq -- were not in U.S. hands until eight months after Wilson made his trip to Niger.
Wilson's reports to the CIA added to the evidence that Iraq may have tried to buy uranium in Niger, although officials at the State Department remained highly skeptical, the report said.
Wilson said that a former prime minister of Niger, Ibrahim Assane Mayaki, was unaware of any sales contract with Iraq, but said that in June 1999 a businessman approached him, insisting that he meet with an Iraqi delegation to discuss "expanding commercial relations" between Niger and Iraq -- which Mayaki interpreted to mean they wanted to discuss yellowcake sales. A report CIA officials drafted after debriefing Wilson said that "although the meeting took place, Mayaki let the matter drop due to UN sanctions on Iraq."
According to the former Niger mining minister, Wilson told his CIA contacts, Iraq tried to buy 400 tons of uranium in 1998.
Still, it was the CIA that bore the brunt of the criticism of the Niger intelligence. The panel found that the CIA has not fully investigated possible efforts by Iraq to buy uranium in Niger to this day, citing reports from a foreign service and the U.S. Navy about uranium from Niger destined for Iraq and stored in a warehouse in Benin.
The agency did not examine forged documents that have been widely cited as a reason to dismiss the purported effort by Iraq until months after it obtained them. The panel said it still has "not published an assessment to clarify or correct its position on whether or not Iraq was trying to purchase uranium from Africa."
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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keithsan: When i started spending time in Europe clinton was president, he was disliked and the media was laughed at for making a big deal out of banging a 20 year old.
galssman: i experienced the same while living at a Kalifornication University in Riverside... i was pretty ticked about monica...the attitude there in general was "what's the big deal"... my response was, it's called sekshal hurasmunt, and lying into the cameras...
i guess lying is now OK???
anyway, i'll continue to bitch and moan about whoever is power..that's the name of the game anyway...
i think we do pay a price when world opinion is against US... i don't think it matters toooo much about opinion until you end up in the UN and not able to garner support for your proprositions... getting rid of the UN would be a waste..
i disagree that Reagan or Bush #1 had world opinion against them... Clinton? more than them but a LOT less than Bush.... Bush has managed to offend them all.... even the Brits are turning against him...
hows the beaches there? see any more nashty old fat people with no suits on this year?
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Art, why don't you stop using bold face in your own statements? it makes it appear you are quoting other people...
that article is good, but it does not say WILSON LIED......
you are misinterpreting it....
it clearly sates the PLAME was not in position to send her husband..yes she threw his name out as a suggestion but she is didn't have the authority to send him....
most importantly?
i persoanlly have read the full (de-classified portion) document that Susan Schmidt Washington Post Staff Writer refers to... here's a link for you...
you have latched onto a few minor portions that aren't pertinent to the fact of the case...
State and IAEA both debunked the Niger documents as forgeries very quickly..CIA had internal STRIFE over how to interpret the Niger documents AND the aluminim tubes... what went to the white house from the CIA was contradicted by both STATE and the IAEA, but the CIA apparently ignored a lot of data to come to their conclusions and they don't make it clear why or how they managed to ignore teh data that made the IAEA and State classify the Niger documents as forgeries...tehy just say they neve considered the evidence ...
from the gov. report.. K. Niger Conclusions
U) Conclusion 13. The report on the former ambassador's trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002, did not change any analysts' assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal, but State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq.
as you can see? the statement is NOT that Wilson lied, it is that his trip didn't force anyone to change their original positions.... the CIA now agrees that they made some serious mistakes.... (U) Conclusion 15. The Central Intelligence Agency's (CIA) Directorate of Operations should have taken precautions not to discuss the credibility of reporting with a potential source when it arranged a meeting with the former ambassador and Intelligence Community analysts.
(U) Conclusion 16. The language in the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate that "Iraq also began vigorously trying to procure uranium ore and yellowcake" overstated what the Intelligence Community knew about Iraq's possible procurement attempts.
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no naked people yet, haven't hit the islands, if there are any fat naked ones, it will be a surprise, with all the norwegians/italians/greeks/germans, its tough to find a fat young one, i'll keep my eyes pealed for you
Reagan defiantely with the arms race had everyone complaining and scared, don't forget nicaragua. first bush did Iraq not liked either. but you can disagree
U.N. honestly I would like to see us leave. Waste of time and money. Big fat gov't organizations are just a waste of time and money. Nothing good is accomplished, have they ever solved a problem.
Leave for Naxos island at 5 am will be there for 8 days. will be trying to flip the q's looking for a short entry only but need to check puter for house incase it sells, how's new haven working out? culture shock?
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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here's what is kind of scary Art..and it still makes me suspicious that the CIA has covered up something for somebody... they flat out state that they sent Wilson to Niger without ever even examining the documents PHYSICALLY... do you really believe this? i don't say anybody is lying here, i just say that credibility is stretched as thin as i possible....
Conclusion 18. When documents regarding the Iraq-Niger uranium reporting became available to the Intelligence Community in October 2002, Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) analysts and operations officers should have made an effort to obtain copies. As a result of not obtaining the documents, CIA Iraq nuclear analysts continued to report on Iraqi efforts to procure uranium from Africa and continued to approve the use of such language in Administration publications and speeches.
if you read the whole report, you will find that the CIA ADMITS they did have the Niger documnets in their possession, but never "bothered" to examine them for authenticity and ignored the report from State that said they were bogus...
that's hard for me to believe...
Conclusion 19. Even after obtaining the forged documents and being alerted by.a State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analyst about problems with them, analysts at both the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) did not examine them carefully enough to see the obvious problems with the documents. Both agencies continued to publish assessments that Iraq may have been seeking uranium from Africa. In addition, CIA continued to approve the use of similar language in Administration publications and speeches, including the State of the Union.
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anyways, i get the feeling the hype that has been presented to kill rove for a long time now may be misplaced. If it is found to be misplaced I also have the feeling that the story will die quick.
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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there are a lot of references in the Senate report to unspecified white house speech writers contacting the CIA about wording.... and we all know that could possibly lead them right back to Rove anyway.....
there is a story that Rove went to a dubya biographer and told him dubya had been busted in Texas in the 70's for coke. then dubya's dad got it fixed by using his connections to the Republican Judge that got dubya's case... the fact? there were NO, i repeat, NO GOP judges in Texas way back when pretty slick way to make anybody afraid to cover a similar story, even if it's true ain't it
secondly? whoever outed Plame? might just have used one journalist to "spread the word" thru to other journalists.. and we still don't know who did it...
the original theories were that Cheneys cheif of staff did it... whoever did it was talking directly to the CIA... that's the only way they would have known that Plame offered her husbands name to her superiors for their consideration....
it's kindof interesting that the CIA used a state dept person to gather intel in a case that they obviously had serious disagreements over... makes ya wonder why they didn't keep it in-house...
i go back to my original theory that there is/has been a career war going on in the intel community
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the "revelation" that Rove was told by journalists? LOL it's illegal too...more things to DD...
The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of grand jury secrecy, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist ...
this will be fun to watch too..
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Rove told the grand jury that by the time Novak had called him, he believes he had similar information about Wilson's wife from another member of the news media but he could not recall which reporter had told him about it first, the person said.
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glassman: Art, why don't you stop using bold face in your own statements? it makes it appear you are quoting other people...
Art: No it doesn't. I clearly show my sources and what they say, apart from my own remarks.
glassman: that article is good, but it does not say WILSON LIED......you are misinterpreting it....it clearly sates the PLAME was not in position to send her husband..yes she threw his name out as a suggestion but she is didn't have the authority to send him....
Art: No one ever said that Plame sent Wilson to Niger on her own authority. Everyone, but Wilson, says Plame suggested this to her boss, and that it was acted on. Wilson said Plame had nothing to do with it - lying to protect his wife - but you wouldn't see a liberal lie if it slapped you in the face and often see a conservative truth as a lie. Self deception allows you to do this.
glassman: State and IAEA both debunked the Niger documents as forgeries very quickly..
Art: So? Doesn't mean that Saddam wasn't actually seeking uranium from Niger, as he had previously in the 90s, does it. Wilson'e own reporting acknowledged this. The forgery means only that someone was trying to instigate action against Saddam, not that Saddam was absolutely not trying to get uranium. It is possible that Saddam was trying to get uranium while at the same time someone forged a document saying this. You don't seem to be able to understand this.
glassman: CIA had internal STRIFE over how to interpret the Niger documents AND the aluminim tubes... what went to the white house from the CIA was contradicted by both STATE and the IAEA, but the CIA apparently ignored a lot of data to come to their conclusions and they don't make it clear why or how they managed to ignore the data that made the IAEA and State classify the Niger documents as forgeries...they just say they neve considered the evidence.
Art: So? There are often differences of opinion as you described above, in interptreting intel that is thin, as intel often is. No big deal here.
So the CIA erred on the side of caution. They should, to protect this country. Bush erred on the side of caution in saying Saddam had WMD based on his having them in the past, and his jerking the UN inspectors around, and Saddam's constantly violating UN agreements he had signed. Bush couldn't take a chance with the security of this country. Those who would have taken that chance, like most liberals, would have put Saddam ahead of the USA - protecting Saddam at a risk to us.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:glassman: Art, why don't you stop using bold face in your own statements? it makes it appear you are quoting other people...
Art: No it doesn't. I clearly show my sources and what they say, apart from my own remarks.
Art, Glass is right. You get confused over responses in argument as opposed to somebody trying to tell you something...lol, glass is in effect saying, "Hey, man, you got spinach in yer teeth."
Then you respond, "Uhhh, no i don't."
Really, the continuous, continual, continued BOLD is goofy. Typefaces have "meaning," a syntax almost...
posted
Art: So? Doesn't mean that Saddam wasn't actually seeking uranium from Niger, as he had previously in the 90s, does it. Wilson'e own reporting acknowledged this. The forgery means only that someone was trying to instigate action against Saddam, not that Saddam was absolutely not trying to get uranium. It is possible that Saddam was trying to get uranium while at the same time someone forged a document saying this. You don't seem to be able to understand this.
glassman: sadam didn't get any uranium in the nineties..it was all before the Gulf War(which i suported) you don't bother to read these reports? you rely on your Catherine Schmidts and Judith Millers and Limbuggers to make your opinions for you? Art, i almost feel sorry for ya man... the conclusions of the WHOLE US INTEL group is that sadam didn't get uranium from niger after the Gulf War....and that ALL of the WMD evidence the admin relied on to instigate the war was BAD...
and you say liberals don't get it.... you don't get it... nobody in America is ready to lie down and let the terrorists take over or whatever it is they want to do...
BUT?
we need to have the cooperation of the whole damn world to beat these ba$tards and guess what? they don't trust US as much as they should now...that's why i was saying that we need world opinion to be more in our favor... i'm no brown-noser, i'm a pragmatist....we can't defeat the terrorists if we don't have cooperation in the international arena...and we've lost a lot of the support we need (and coulda had) for that cooperation...
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Art: So? Doesn't mean that Saddam wasn't actually seeking uranium from Niger, as he had previously in the 90s, does it. Wilson'e own reporting acknowledged this. The forgery means only that someone was trying to instigate action against Saddam, not that Saddam was absolutely not trying to get uranium. It is possible that Saddam was trying to get uranium while at the same time someone forged a document saying this. You don't seem to be able to understand this.
glassman: Saddam didn't get any uranium in the nineties..Art, i almost feel sorry for ya man... the conclusions of the WHOLE US INTEL group is that sadam didn't get uranium from niger after the Gulf War....and you say liberals don't get it.... you don't get it...
Art: Nobody said Saddam got uranium in the 90s - only that he was trying to.
glassman: we need to have the cooperation of the whole damn world to beat these ba$tards and guess what? they don't trust US as much as they should now...
Art: Nonsense. We are getting the same cooperation we would have gotten. Where is this not true? We have only not goten support eith the war in Iraq but that is changing fast as even France and Germany are helping in Iraq.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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art, as long as you keep repeating the lies? i will keep pushing the truth back in front of your lies...
Wilson's report has been twisted so far out of proportion that you don't seem to have any clue what it said...
simple facts here...
Wilson said that his report SHOULD have settled any questions that Cheney's office had... Cheney himself did admit that he did communicate with the CIA that he wanted more data in the Niger situation...no, Cheney himself didn't order Wilson tt go, but Wilson never said Cheney himself ordered it, just that the CIA was acting in response to Cheney's questions...
it really is amazing how many ways these guys can twist the truth...
the stories that Wilson is a liar are blown way out of proportion because the WMD declarations are what got the support of the country in invading Iraq... and without them? nada... it wouldn't have happened...
i patiently await the rest of the story....
BTW? Rove's stories are unraveling fast on the Sunday morning news shows.....
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Art: Nobody said Saddam got uranium in the 90s - only that he was trying to.
glassman: the evidence suggests otherwise art, and wilson did not confirm that at all....
White House Backs Off Claim on Iraqi Buy By Walter Pincus Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, July 8, 2003; Page A01
The Bush administration acknowledged for the first time yesterday that President Bush should not have alleged in his State of the Union address in January that Iraq had sought to buy uranium in Africa to reconstitute its nuclear weapons program.
what's even more disturbing is the way that the admin went about trying to justify their claims to begin with... there was much discussion about which reports to go with, and it is crystal clear that they knew they COULD NOT use the CIA's stuff without breaching the classified data rules... so when they started to slam Wilson? they had to know that they were treading on thin ice as far as the "neither confirm nor deny" rules... it is still a question of who did IT, not whether it was done...
Rove is not off the hook yet....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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glassman: we need to have the cooperation of the whole damn world to beat these ba$tards and guess what? they don't trust US as much as they should now...
Art: Nonsense. We are getting the same cooperation we would have gotten. Where is this not true? We have only not goten support eith the war in Iraq but that is changing fast as even France and Germany are helping in Iraq.
glassman:
that's a pretty stupid thing to say, remember this??????
after prolonged negotiations between the United States, Britain, France, Russia and other U.N. Security Council members, the United Nations declared that Iraq would have to accept even more intrusive inspections than under the previous inspection regime - to be carried out by the U.N. Monitoring, Verification, and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) - or face "serious consequences." Iraq agreed to accept the U.N. decision and inspections resumed in late November 2002. On December 7, 2002, Iraq submitted its 12,000 page declaration, which claimed that it had no current WMD programs. Intelligence analysts from the United States and other nations immediately began to scrutinize the document, and senior U.S. officials quickly rejected the claims. (Note 2)
Over the next several months, inspections continued in Iraq, and the chief inspectors, Hans Blix (UNMOVIC) and Mohammed El Baradei (IAEA) provided periodic updates to the U.N. Security Council concerning the extent of Iraqi cooperation, what they had or had not discovered, and what they believed remained to be done. During that period the Bush administration, as well as the Tony Blair administration in the United Kingdom, charged that Iraq was not living up to the requirement that it fully disclose its WMD activities, and declared that if it continued along that path, "serious consequences" - that is, invasion - should follow.
posted
The trigger for military action preferred by the British government, other allies, and at least some segments of the Bush administration, was a second U.N. resolution that would authorize an armed response. Other key U.N. Security Council members - including France, Germany, and Russia - argued that the inspections were working and that the inspectors should be allowed to continue. When it became apparent that the Council would not approve a second resolution, the United States and Britain terminated their attempts to obtain it. Instead, they, along with other allies, launched Operation Iraqi Freedom on March 19, 2003 - a military campaign that quickly brought about the end of Saddam Hussein's regime and ultimately resulted in his capture.
i know this is the "intellectual" version of history....
but it is correct in every detail....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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I'm currently reading "The Lies of George W. Bush" by David Corn. Great read. Goes into great detail of the many (and I mean many) fabrications and falsehoods this cowardly ass has spewed over the last thirty five years. Gives good depth on when he was AWOL from the National Guard for a year and a half. "Hail To The Cowardly Dictator".
Dar
-------------------- Do Da Due......But Be Damn Quick About It!!!!! Posts: 1656 | Registered: Sep 2004
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