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Author Topic: iraq. who gets the oil?
turbokid
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This is sure to cause a stir. have look though pretty interesting.

http://www.nogw.com/warforisrael.html

-love
turbokid


--and you thought it was about WMD's [Smile]

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"Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over."
Herbert Hoover 1930

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Art
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Funny!

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More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.

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turbokid
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funny in what way? that they are getting their way and getting the oil. Or funny like i made it up??

--------------------
"Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over."
Herbert Hoover 1930

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Art
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No, not funny in either way you desribe.

I like the part that Iraq will sell oil to Israel. That signifies Arab-Israel cooperation that bodes extremely well for peace in the mideast.

Just think, Israel has made peace with Egypt and Jordan. Israel is on the verge of making peace with the Palestinians and giving them a Palestinian state which has never existed before.

Now Iraq will recognize Israel and form economic agreements with them to benefit both countries, as well as Egypt, Jordan, and the new Palestinian state.

Guess what will happen as result?

An Arab split betwen pro-Israel Arab nations and anti-Israel Arab nations, with a military presence by the US in the mideast. Divide and conquer the Arabs who want to destroy all Jews and take over Israel.

As I have said many times, with the US defeat of Saddam, peace is breaking out in the mideast.

What is funny is to suggest that we went to war in Iraq solely for the benefit of Israel, when it is the whole of the mideast that will benefit and when this was the best possible way to defeat terorism.

Liberals are gnashing their teeth over it.

Watch and learn over the next 10 years.


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The light of truth is blinding to most.

More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.

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blueranger
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so we went to war for Israel, that is a fine reason.

or even if we went to war for oil, that is a fine reason as well..

but the truth is we went to war because of sept 11.

the Illuminati is just a wonderful public service organization... I wish You could come to some of our meetings...

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glassman
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we didn't got war for 9-11...

the politicians made sure you think that tho....
they used 9-11 to convince the general public to back it...

the issue of concern is who will pay for the war...

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Art
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Yep, should have not gone to war after 9/11 and instead wait for the terrorists to come to us.

Then the terrorists would be free in the mideast to create all kinds of upset, oil supply blocking, and eventaully take over the mideast and control the oil.

Oh, I forgot. We could have fought the terrorists with diplomacy. Or was it love that would defeat them?

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More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.

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glassman
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yeah and there is less terrorism today Art...

Iraq is so peaceful now....


admit it, you just love propaganda....

next you'll be saying i was against taking out Afghnistan too...LOL

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Art
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That's true - terrorism is dying - peaked with 9/11.

Iraq is much more peaceful now than under Saddam, who killed over a million of Iraqis.

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The light of truth is blinding to most.

More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.

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Nanny
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Art, do you worship Bush and Chaney? Send them a healty donation for this war....
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Art
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No, like their fight against terrorism - particlurly taking it to the mideast and having a miltiary presence there to pressure Syria, Iran, and the Palestinians to make peace with Israel.

Dislike Bush's big spending domestically.

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The light of truth is blinding to most.

More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.

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turbokid
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quote:
Originally posted by blueranger:
so we went to war for Israel, that is a fine reason.

or even if we went to war for oil, that is a fine reason as well..

but the truth is we went to war because of sept 11.

the Illuminati is just a wonderful public service organization... I wish You could come to some of our meetings...

we went to war with iraq because of sept 11? ok then, please provide me with a shred of evidence linking saddam hussein to sept 11. Or even link arabs to the hijackings of the planes i will provide the links of the passenger lists please point out to me which of the listed names are from the middle east.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA11.victims.html
Passenger and crew list for AA 11 (first WTC crash.)
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html
AA 77 (Pentagon crash)
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/ua175.victims.html
UA 175 (2nd WTC crash)
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/ua93.victims.html
UA 93 ( Pensylvannia crash)

now then if you say they were using aliases which of the passengers names did they use, and also how, if they were using aliases were they tracked to their real names? From what i understand human ashes look the same if your american or middle eastern, so how were the hijackers identified, DNA? You cant look at ashes and say, "ahah" these ashes are of mohammed atta." Nowthen if they did use DNA they need family members DNA to reference it to, did they do this? But if they were using aliases werent they referencing to the passenger lists thereby throwing off the search with the fake names? Also if these men were middle eastern terrorists how did we get their pictures? Did we know about them before? If we did why werent we keeping an eye on them? Why have 7 of the 19 hijackers identified by the FBI come forward voluntarily saying they are alive and not even in the united states during sept. 11th
http://www.prisonplanet.com/father_insists_alleged_leader_of_attack_on_wtc_is_still_alive.htm
http://www.prisonplanet.com/hijack_suspect_alive_in_morocco.htm http://prisonplanet.com/seven_of_the_wtc_hijackers_found_alive.html

How did mohammed atta's passport magically survive a plane crash and subsequent fireball and the collapse of the towers to be found on the street. this kind of evidence screams evidence planting and patsy. So if you can provide me any evidence linking iraq or saddam to the sept 11th attacks please do so. I bet you will be surpised what you dig up, i was!
But if you cant then there has to be some reason why we would want to attack these countries. There were no arabs on the lists, no WMD's in iraq, whats going on here?

--------------------
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Herbert Hoover 1930

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Art
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Yep, should have not gone to war after 9/11 and instead wait for the terrorists to come to us.

Then the terrorists would be free in the mideast to create all kinds of upset, oil supply blocking, and eventaully take over the mideast and control the oil.

Oh, I forgot. We could have fought the terrorists with diplomacy. Or was it love that would defeat them?

--------------------
The light of truth is blinding to most.

More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.

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Art
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Saddam tried to kill Bush Sr.

Saddam was linked to the Oklahoma bombings -Iraqi agents met with Terry Nichols in the Philipines and gave him plans to make a fertilizer bomb.

Once sanctions were lifted, if we had not invaded Iraq, Saddam would reactivated his WMD programs he had on hold, and Saddam would have secretly done anything to help terrorists attack the USA, and would eventually have done this if left in power. Only a fool as president would have allowed this - Bush is no fool.


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The light of truth is blinding to most.

More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.

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turbokid
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quote:
Originally posted by Art:
[b

Once sanctions were lifted, if we had not invaded Iraq, Saddam would reactivated his WMD programs he had on hold, b]

if thats the case, dont lift sanctions, or reinstate them.

listen, saddam is a crazy murdering maniac and isnt fit to run a country but framing him for attacks is pretty sissy, why not say the truth, we dont like him he kills his own people and we would like to have his oil. Answer, that would not have gone over well and not enough support to go to war under those pretenses, but after sept 11th this was easy to pull the old switcharoo.

--------------------
"Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over."
Herbert Hoover 1930

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Art:
Saddam tried to kill Bush Sr.

Saddam was linked to the Oklahoma bombings -Iraqi agents met with Terry Nichols in the Philipines and gave him plans to make a fertilizer bomb.

Once sanctions were lifted, if we had not invaded Iraq, Saddam would reactivated his WMD programs he had on hold, and Saddam would have secretly done anything to help terrorists attack the USA, and would eventually have done this if left in power. Only a fool as president would have allowed this - Bush is no fool.

you should write novels Art....

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Art
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Art: Once we sanctions were lifted, if we had not invaded Iraq, Saddam would have reactivated his WMD programs he had on hold.

Turbokid: If that's the case, don't lift sanctions, or reinstate them.

Art: No, there was growing pressure from France, Russia, Germany, China, etc., to get sanctions lifted. Saddam was stil violating UN resolutions and we were at a point of either invading or give up.

Those who are against the invasion would have us give up and go home. Sanctions were not working since the UN was bypassing the oil for food program. The meaningles sanctions would have been lifted in a short time, if we had gone home.

TK: listen, saddam is a crazy murdering maniac and isnt fit to run a country but framing him for attacks is pretty sissy..

Art: Who blamed Saddam for 9/11? No one that i know of. Who?

TK:.. he kills his own people and we would like to have his oil. Answer, that would not have gone over well and not enough support to go to war under those pretenses, but after sept 11th this was easy to pull the old switcharoo.

Art: The argument was made on many bases. WMD sticks in everyone mind, and even Kerry, and most other liberals, said Saddam, had WMD and these posed a threat. There was also the matter of peace and stability in the mideast, which was plenty reason enough to invade Iraq, in view of Saddam's past waring actions. Most people are too stupid to see this as an important reason - they don't realize how much our, and the world's, economy, depends on peace and stability in the mideast.


--------------------
The light of truth is blinding to most.

More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.

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glassman
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Art: Who blamed Saddam for 9/11? No one that i know of. Who?

glassman: Media Matters? Poll Shows More than 4 in 10 Still Link Saddam to 9/11

By E&P Staff

Published: October 05, 2004 4:10 PM EDT

NEW YORK While the press gave extensive coverage Tuesday to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s statement that he hasn't seen "any strong, hard evidence" to link Saddam Hussein and the al-Qaeda terrorists who staged the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, it became ever more apparent that the media still have their work cut out for them on this issue.
Rumsfeld's comments came as a new USA Today/CNN/Gallup Poll found that 42% of those surveyed thought the former Iraqi leader was involved in the attacks on New York City and Washington.

In response to another question, 32% said they thought Saddam had personally planned them.

The same poll in June showed that 56% of all Republicans said they thought Saddam was involved with the 9/11 attacks. In the latest poll that number actually climbs, to 62%.


convenient for the campaign wasn't it?

LOL.... "spin"
interesting article in Atlantic this month...the Dems are now planning to "match" the "spin" of the GOP from the last election...
the bar goes lower...

before the last election? i always felt that the "conservatives" were the more honest of the lib/con pair...now? hmmmmmm....

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Art
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Again I say:

Who blamed Saddam for 9/11? No one that I know of. Who?

Sure many of the public suspect some involvement, as well as suspect we have hidden crashed UFOs.

What political leader?

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The light of truth is blinding to most.

More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Art:
Again I say:

Who blamed Saddam for 9/11? No one that I know of. Who?

Sure many of the public suspect some involvement, as well as suspect we have hidden crashed UFOs.

What political leader?

you didn't say political leader

you should watch BushTV er, i mean FOXNEWS once in awhile Art....the lies were rampant....

by the way, http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/united_nations/reasons.html
still hasn't bothered to remove all of the false data they presented....i guess that's honest in and of itself anyway...

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Art
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Who?

I don't know of anyone, political leader or not, that blamed 9/11 on Saddam.

Turbokid implied that the US (Bush administration) had framed Saddam in blaming Saddam for the 9/11 attacks as justification of attacking Saddam. Here is what Turbokid said,"..listen, Saddam is a crazy murdering maniac and isnt fit to run a country but framing him for attacks is pretty sissy...".

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The light of truth is blinding to most.

More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.

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glassman
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and i showed you PLAINLY that he was blamed and framed....
this goes directly to the "change of heart" that America has undergone since 9-11...the average American truly believed that Saddam was an IMMEDIATE threat to National Security, and this is because the White House made sure of it...people are beginning to "wake up" from the "hypnotic spin".....

this was one of osam's goals...to "pick a fight"..you can't possibly believe that he thought we would not respond with war...
only problem? he's still "out there"...

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Art
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Glassman:.... and i showed you PLAINLY that he was blamed and framed....

Art: You only showed that many of the public believes that Saddam was somehow involved in the 9/11 attack. They came up with the idea on their own - no one in the Bush administration ever said that Saddam was behind the 9/11 attack in any way.


Glassman:..this goes directly to the "change of heart" that America has undergone since 9-11...the average American truly believed that Saddam was an IMMEDIATE threat to National Security, and this is because the White House made sure of it...

Art: How did the white house make sure that people believed that Saddam was behind the 9/11 attack?

Glassman:..people are beginning to "wake up" from the "hypnotic spin".....

Art: What spin was this? Any dated quote references from the Bush people saying that Saddam was behind the 9/11 attacks?

Glassman: this was one of osam's goals...to "pick a fight"..you can't possibly believe that he thought we would not respond with war...
only problem? he's still "out there"...

Art: Osama is doing what? Besides running and hiding. At least alive he is no martyr. He is thus less of a factor alive and hiding than he would be if dead. Better off for us if he stays alive and running.

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The light of truth is blinding to most.

More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.

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blueranger
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saddam was not obeying those that
rule the world....and so they decided
to take him out...

what is wrong with that....

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by blueranger:
saddam was not obeying those that
rule the world....and so they decided
to take him out...

what is wrong with that....

Saddam did disarm...as evidenced by our own military's findings..yes he was a despot, and a war criminal, and he was a fool for not allowing the UN to inspect fully..(stupid foolish pride IMO)

those that rule the world did NOT take him out...the US took him out ALONE...
AGAINST the rest of those that rule the world with US...this IMO was the biggest error of all...assuming WE RULE the world alone...

NOW? the WHOLE rest of the world will be sure to take every advantage to prove to US that we don't rule the world...and that is what i mean by diplomacy (or lack thereof)...making sure you have strong allies and strong relationships with them...we told them all to effoff
now we have to pay the price alone.... and we are...
i'm not and never have have suggested we abandon our mission there..we have made a commitment to the Iraqi people..
however,
the price is already more than triple what we were told to expect, and still growing...


the invasion was presented to the American people as a last resort.... remember?

it was based on the "fact" that Sadam HAD in his posession WMD that could be used in another 911 attack...
from the whitehouse.gov
The U.N. and U.S. intelligence sources have known for some time that Saddam Hussein has materials to produce chemical and biological weapons, but he has not accounted for them:

* 26,000 liters of anthrax—enough to kill several million people
* 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin
* 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agents


that's no little hole in the desert....and that stuff can't just be stored in a "paint locker", it's very sensitive materials


on the one hand "some people" say that Saddam would have gotten sanctions lifted, on the other hand? the same UN element that "some people" say would have given permission to lift the sanction was making a lot of money off of those sanctions...

NO, i think they liked the status quo,
and if they did decide to give up the goose that layed the golden egg? WE could have blocked any lifting of sanctions at the security council level...it is ridiculous to say that the French would have lifted sanctions on their own...

the way i see it? the American TAXPAYER and the American SOLDIER are working their butts off and giving lives and limbs to......what?

set up a "democracy" that if allowed to act on it's own will act against US anyway? Saudi Arabia and Iran are going to work very hard against democracy "in our image" surviving there...if WE succeed it will only be by constant vigilence for a very very long time...and that is not cheap......

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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blueranger
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Saudi Arabia will do what there told to do..

Iran does not quite understand but they are learning...

Syria, just had a wake up call....

we americans have a hard time doing what we are
told to do... and democracy is just an american fantacy..

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glassman
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i think Saudi Arabia is pretty upset about US taking Iraq...
did you know that they paid US for the first gulf war? the whole bill... then they kept the oil flowing briskly... yes, they will try to avoid any kind of real confrontation because they have no military to speak of...
BUT they have plenty of our money...
and they can use that...
consider that the 911 suicide bombers were almost ALL Saudi...that gave US diplomatic leverage with them, and they still refused to back US in the Iraq war..even tho Iraq was their enemy too...not good...

China on the other hand? they have plenty of our money, and they are not so easily convinced...they are already making alot of "investments" in Venezuela...we considered that "home turf"...that is gonna hurt in the long run...
the price will be very high indeed, and i think when the bill is tallied Bush will not be remebered so favorably in the history books...

Iran? who knows? Russia and India are both showing "interest" there..... since our intel was so bad in Iraq? we are gonna have a tougher time getting them "denuclearized"...they are already a "democracy" in name only....

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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blueranger
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well, there really is a group of people who run the world and there goal really is one world economy....

and there is nothing we can do about it..

we are being hammered right now over soft lumber dispute with canada...

conspiracy is truth...

I will give you an example of a global conspiracy.

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blueranger
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here is one example of a global conspiracy..

Debers owns all the diamond mines in south africa.
they control the government down there and don't have things like minimum wages... and retirement and they don't pay taxes...

debers always buys any diamond mine anywhere in the world... they ship all there diamonds to england and grade them and decide what the global market will bear.... then the excess is ground up for drill bits....

diamonds were recently discovered in the congo and around liberia. They would not sell to debers. So debers gets the UN to declare the diamonds war diamonds... people were declared war criminals... and even the US president issued an executive order fining people 100000 bucks for bringing a non aproved diamond into the country..

So if you bought a diamond in northern africa you could be arrested in most of the world because it is not a debers diamond....

This just one small example but it the truth..

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Art
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Gobal economy yes.

Global conspiracy no.

Sure some nations and businesses/nations ally to exploit other nations, but the conspiracy is international but not a consensus-global conspiracy.

Germany, France and Russia had sweetheart deals with Iraq, shutting out he USA. This was a conspiracy against the USA.

The USA breaks it up in taking over iraq, not that this was their main motivation for war - just some icing on the cake.

Such alliances and counteralliances go on all the time in international competition among nations.

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The light of truth is blinding to most.

More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.

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blueranger
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Global conspiracy, yes
right now europe and the wto is punishing us
over canadan soft wood because of canadian beef.

the world bank, UN, wto, quito treaty, everything
is hearding us toward a one world finance system and eventually government...

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glassman
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it's those damn Sirians taking over the world...

no, not the Syrians ....

Sirians from the dog-star system...

The Dogon People of Saharan Africa Knew all about them...


The first Western scientists to visit and study the Dogon people were French anthropologists Drs Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen, who initially made contact with them in 1931, and continued to research them for the next three decades, culminating in a detailed study conducted between 1946-1950. During their work, these anthropologists documented the traditional mythology and sacred beliefs of the Dogon, which included an extraordinary body of ancient lore regarding Sirius Š the brilliant, far-distant Dog Star.
Their priests told them of a secret Dogon myth about the star Sirius (8.6 light years from the Earth. The priests said that Sirius had a companion star that was invisible to the human eye. They also stated that the star moved in a 50-year elliptical orbit around Sirius, that it was small and incredibly heavy, and that it rotated on its axis.
Many artifacts were found describing the star system, including a statue examined by Dieterlen that is at least 400 years old.



this turned out to be TRUE and they told the tale at least 20 years before the "dark" star in the system was first seen by telescope
http://www.geocities.com/jilaens/dogons.html

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk/dogonsum.html

the Sirians look like regular dogs, and can look like any breed, but you can tell the difference because the Sirians all have a spot on the top side of their tail usually about one third of the way from the base to the tip... [Big Grin]

caution: it is extremely dangerous to let a Sirian know you are "onto" him/her....

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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blueranger
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wow,

well its time to listen to art bell.

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glassman
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LOL, is that Art's last name?

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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