Politics is all about making the populace feel good, and often this has nothing to do with doing good for them.
Better to make a law against flag burning, which makes the people cheer, than to solve important issues where many may not like the solution reached.
So let's rally to save Terri and just talk about illegal immigration and Social Security without doing anything about either, while the ignored medicare costs silently grow to brankrupt us.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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My Gfriend works in an ER, I've heard all about Medicare/medicade abusers. I can not believe some of the people that abuse the system.
Help I need an ambulance, I have a sliver, cramps, sore throat.
Paying for these types of things makes me sick, I better call an ambulance.
Anyways, it's a shame that the judicial system is actually letting a concious person starve to death. Brain damaged or not, it sounds pretty inhumane if you ask me.
[ March 25, 2005, 14:50: Message edited by: Peaser01 ]
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In VA? we had doc-in-a-boxes...great...you walk in any time? get treated, leave.... i used them alot, cuz i was always mashing my thumb or getting gaffed (LOL, no lie)
quicker and cheaper than ER, and i dunno nuttn' about medicare/aid...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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That would be great. I visit Springfield, VA about twice a year(gfriends family).
Anyways, ya it's pretty bad with some people up here. They call an ambulance for some pretty rediculous things, and get treated for free because of medicaid. And of course the bills are paid by us taxpayers.
My favorite visit to the ER was when my buddy hooked me in the face with two excalibur treble hooks. He tried setting the hook on a smallmouth that hit his bait on topwater and sure enough. I had like .0001 seconds to get out of the way of the flying lure. That was funny. He thought I was gonna hurt him after that one.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: no, i don't think this case is being "spun" by anybody but the politicians playing up to the "right to lifers"
the goal here is to set Terri up as a "sacrifice" for their cause. if they REALLY wanted her to live? they could have passed new laws years ago that are constitutional... they haven't...
the "game" here is to pass "unconstitutional " laws to make the Judges appear to be evil....sad...
the "partial birth abortion" issue was handled in the same way....it's all "spin"....
I always fathom at the "spin" it requires to suggest that abortion is not killing human life.
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and i always fathom at the hubrus to think other people have any business getting in between a doctor and patient....
i am not pro-abortion...
BUT, i think people are gonna do what they are gonna do,( yep, we outlawed drugs/alcohol) and refusing to provide SAFE healthcare to anybody is ridiculous... abortion is NOT a modern problem...(it's older than civilisation) BUT telling women how/when to do it IS...
once they get abortion outlawed they will start on birth control...why? because of the exact same argument...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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So we legalize some killing in the doctor-patient relationship, and liberals are in favor of such killing of an unborn or partialy born child. once again, you twist the truth, the UNCONSTITUTIONAL laws have been written in such a way that all cases of abortion would be illegal...read them...they are "partial birth" laws in NAME ONLY......
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Art: So we legalize some killing in the doctor-patient relationship, and liberals are in favor of such killing of an unborn or partialy born child.
Glassman: Once again, you twist the truth, the UNCONSTITUTIONAL laws have been written in such a way that all cases of abortion would be illegal...read them...they are "partial birth" laws in NAME ONLY......
So are you saying that we do not legalize some killing in the doctor-patient relationship, and that liberals are not in favor of such killing of an unborn or partialy born child?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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ask the liberals about their views...my personal belief is not important... what matters to ME is that we don't slip into a future where the government is basically in charge of every decision of our lives.... seems imminent to me....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: and i always fathom at the hubrus to think other people have any business getting in between a doctor and patient....
i am not pro-abortion...
BUT, i think people are gonna do what they are gonna do,( yep, we outlawed drugs/alcohol) and refusing to provide SAFE healthcare to anybody is ridiculous... abortion is NOT a modern problem...(it's older than civilisation) BUT telling women how/when to do it IS...
once they get abortion outlawed they will start on birth control...why? because of the exact same argument...
First of all, as I see it is killing a human life. With that said, making a "safe" place for the other's involved is rediculous. People will always do what they want, they make their own decisions, and the government isn't going to stop that. That doesn't mean it should sanction it. IMO there is no difference then saying that my neighbor is a pest, I'm going to kill him and I need the law to protect me in doing so. This isn't a matter of the government interfering with the rights of the people, it's about the government not letting the rights of some people exist in favor of the rights of others. Which, is not the interpretation of the constitution nor the thinking of the enlightenment political thinkers either. As far as it not being a modern problem, but as old as time...I'm well aware of that. Doesn't change anything. As you state, institution of laws that protect the rights of the citizens IS, and it's called civilization. This argument that I just posed isn't applicable to birth control. You are right, I'm sure some and perhaps many would try to outlaw it, but it would have to be from a different perspective. The thing is, there isn't another life on the line with birth control and many of us pro-lifers do not care to make it illegal.
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This isn't a matter of the government interfering with the rights of the people, it's about the government not letting the rights of some people exist in favor of the rights of others. Which, is not the interpretation of the constitution nor the thinking of the enlightenment political thinkers either.
This argument that I just posed isn't applicable to birth control.
yes, there is a separate life involved in birth control PILLS...
this is also the crux of the issue with stem cell research too..
when does a human life start?
birth control pills DO NOT stop conception...
they stop the embryo from attaching to the uterine wall...
do you realise that right to-lifers will also BAN in-vitro fertilistion at fertility clinics with the same laws they want now? because we have to make a lot of embryos to be successfull, and some of them are going to be left over...
over-simplification of these issues is what the politicians are doing, and i get annoyed when i hear peole saying the Judges are evil, or the scintists are evil..yes some people are evil, but most of these people are trying very hard to make the "correct " decisions in a very difficult maze
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: This isn't a matter of the government interfering with the rights of the people, it's about the government not letting the rights of some people exist in favor of the rights of others. Which, is not the interpretation of the constitution nor the thinking of the enlightenment political thinkers either.
This argument that I just posed isn't applicable to birth control.
yes, there is a separate life involved in birth control PILLS...
this is also the crux of the issue with stem cell research too..
when does a human life start?
birth control pills DO NOT stop conception...
they stop the embryo from attaching to the uterine wall...
do you realise that right to-lifers will also BAN in-vitro fertilistion at fertility clinics with the same laws they want now? because we have to make a lot of embryos to be successfull, and some of them are going to be left over...
over-simplification of these issues is what the politicians are doing, and i get annoyed when i hear peole saying the Judges are evil, or the scintists are evil..yes some people are evil, but most of these people are trying very hard to make the "correct " decisions in a very difficult maze
Some birth control yes, not all though. Yes I realize the issues concerning in-vitro and stem cell, and there should be regard for wasted embryos. If this isn't possible, it is very true that the practices should be illegal as well. You are right it isn't good to label all judges and scientists as evil. However, I'd like to make a couple points about that. There is must skepticism associated with Judges because they are appointed, not-elected, and are usually in the chair for a very long time. They rarely are held accountable for their decisions. This goes well beyond the discussion here and can be extended to many other issues, including their apparent inability to convict and keep dangerous criminals in jail. Secondly, I am a scientist. I'm a very educated scientist in fact. I have experienced University education for many years. In general (and this is a large general) the idea of ethics is completely laughed at. I do not trust the scientific community in decisions regarding life. It is nothing more than an interesting anomoly to them.
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well, i won't argue that a lot of the vocal scientists scoff at ethics... the scientific communtiy is just as "political" as any other...my observations of the scientific community in recent years is that there is a lot of "bad practice" of science to obtain funding.... the US University system is an extremely successful Capitalistic system( full of pansy liberals LOL)
we NEED judges to be appointed and "tenured" to "smoooth out" the politicians rabid blatherings and "mob instigation" IMO
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: well, i won't argue that a lot of the vocal scientists scoff at ethics... the scientific communtiy is just as "political" as any other...my observations of the scientific community in recent years is that there is a lot of "bad practice" of science to obtain funding.... the US University system is an extremely successful Capitalistic system( full of pansy liberals LOL)
lol this thing is moving way off topic in an off topic forum. I agree with the bad practice to fund science. I am just at the point of graduation with my Ph.D. looking for work and there isn't alot of it out there. The system is funding way too many graduates without a demand in the job market for them. Trouble is, most of this money is not coming from industry, which would simply make it a poor capitalistic decision. Most of the money is coming from the NSF and therefore from tax payers. I'm guessing other disciplines in the University also get their primary funding from taxes (excluding business?? I don't know). Too me that's an indication of socialism rather than of capitalism.
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we have just completed the struggle to finish a post-doc here, it's been very rough, and nothing worked the way we expected, but it is working...good luck... i can't believe the some of the practices that tenured prof's get away with...the system is still "feudal"....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: we have just completed the struggle to finish a post-doc here, it's been very rough, and nothing worked the way we expected, but it is working...good luck... i can't believe the some of the practices that tenured prof's get away with...the system is still "feudal"....
You are right, I was lucky to find a good prof who doesn't treat his students that way. I have seen many that do. They especially treat their foreign students that way, since they will do just about anything to be here learning.
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they take their visa and hold it...get 80-120 hrs aweek out of 'em? and it's illegal for instance in CA because they lie on the time sheets...yep, i know... then they take the work and publish it but only AFTER they get more funding... yes we do have problems...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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