quote:Originally posted by glassman: Bush didn't "make" me or anybody any money with tax cuts... he BORROWED it from our children to give it to us today...
Wrong again.
Everyone paying taxes benefited immediately by having more money under Bush. Putting more money into the taxpayers' hands, instead of allowing it to be wasted by government, served to stimulate the economy out of the Clinton recession, which means that more taxes will be paid back into government than would be the case if the economy did not strengthen.
9/11 was a wild card that did cause us to spend more on homeland security and defense but the economy is still growing and more taxes are continuing to be paid into government, as a result of a growing economy which resulted from Bush's tax cuts.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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and NOW? we barely have debt under control...
you fail to observe that the "war on terror" is underfunded at home (where it would mean jobs) and well-funded overseas..where the Islamic terrorists are...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: and NOW? we barely have debt under control...
you fail to observe that the "war on terror" is underfunded at home (where it would mean jobs) and well-funded overseas..where the Islamic terrorists are...
So you are saying we should spend money fighting terrorism where the terrorists are not, and spend less money fighting terrorism where the terrorists are?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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quote:Originally posted by Art: We will grow out of debt if we cut more taxes and stimulate mor economic growth, to produce more tax paid into government.
i am all for that Art, i understand trickle down economics...
problem is this...
we are not in the 80's anymore....
this is the 21st century GLOBAL ECONOMY...it's not trickling down...it's trickling OUT...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by Art: We will grow out of debt if we cut more taxes and stimulate mor economic growth, to produce more tax paid into government.
i am all for that Art, i understand trickle down economics...
problem is this...
we are not in the 80's anymore....
this is the 21st century GLOBAL ECONOMY...it's not trickling down...it's trickling OUT...
Same economics apply now as it did before - what has changed to think otherwise?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: and NOW? we barely have debt under control...
you fail to observe that the "war on terror" is underfunded at home (where it would mean jobs) and well-funded overseas..where the Islamic terrorists are...
Well funded????? WTF are you talking about? The weaknesses we had on the intel front were overseas. This was stated from hill to mountain top yet you think we need more jobs here to confront the problem???? Glass, your crackpipe is scorched from overuse. Do try to focus.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And Your Wit Shall Be Made Bankrupt
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LOL, DQR you aren't watching your local news then... police and fire depts are runnng on shoestring budgets..schools are BROKE all over the south...
you know very well i support a VIGOROUS intel community.....
and Art? money is leaving the country so fast i can hear the sucking sound...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Glass all I can suggest is that you invest in wet-naps to assist you in getting that sand out of your vagina... seriously that irritation you are experiencing is affecting us all.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And Your Wit Shall Be Made Bankrupt
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quote:Originally posted by DiQuiRiesco: Glass all I can suggest is that you invest in wet-naps to assist you in getting that sand out of your vagina... seriously that irritation you are experiencing is affecting us all.
LOL i can't imagine you truly irritated...hope everything is OK wherever you are, you haven't been around to razz me much lately...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: LOL, DQR you aren't watching your local news then... police and fire depts are runnng on shoestring budgets..schools are BROKE all over the south...
So, cut out the fat in the local budgets. Believe me there are many people drawing big salaries who are doing nothing. I suppose you want to raise taxes.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: .....and Art? money is leaving the country so fast i can hear the sucking sound...
Can you explain to me how Bush's policies have increased jobs, and these jobs provide US taxpayers with more money, and this money is going out of the country?
Are the US workers sending it out of the country instead of taking it home and spending it?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: yes: raise taxes, but only in certain areas.. here's two suggestions there are plenty more....
let's tax all sporting events/concerts 100% people will still go.....
let's tax all elective cosmetic surgery (besides true disfigurement repair) 500% (including botox)
and i agree there is much fat to be trimmed....
That would raise enough to pay about one eighth of congressional "junket trips" each year - government paid vacations for congresspeople and their family/friends, which are disguished as government business trips.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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"this is the 21st century GLOBAL ECONOMY...it's not trickling down...it's trickling OUT..."
America is becoming the laughing stalk of the word economically. Canada and the rest of the G7 has been working on getting our debt to GDP ratio as low as possible, we've ran surpluses for 8 years and have had an economy thats been expanding faster than yours. I read this in a magazine today. The big fear in Canada is that the US is our biggest trading partner, our countries are largely dependent on eachother. And the US is the only advanced industrialized country with a RISING debt to GDP ratio. Its scary how badly Bush is screwing you guys over. And you all follow like obedient lemmings.
You've gotta watch it, the people are gonna rise up and destroy the neo cons...
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Fed. taxes on DVD rental? movies? (that will spank those darn "llllllliberals")
Your taxes would reduce sales and hurt business, and then lose jobs and hurt the economy, and thus create more of a deficit since less tax money would be paid into government with the slowing economy and job loss.
Raising taxes creates more of a deficit unless you have strong enough growth to absorb the raised taxes, and we do not.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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Art:What are you saying. That the US workers are sending there earnings to Mexico and China as charity? Glass: NO, Mexico is actively sending in migrants who send their money back while living off our social benefits system..... China? well i think you spell that one with a capital W for starters...just look at the trade deficit we have with them...it's ridiculous...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Art:What are you saying. That the US workers are sending their earnings to Mexico and China as charity?
Glass: NO, Mexico is actively sending in migrants who send their money back while living off our social benefits system..... China? well i think you spell that one with a capital W for starters...just look at the trade deficit we have with them...it's ridiculous...
Art: Yes, those migrants spend their money in the US and pay taxes to the US (sales taxes if they are illegals).
As far as trade deficits we get goods for what we pay - it is called business - and this means earnings for US companies selling imported products, more jobs for US workers working for these companies, better US economy, more US taxes paid to help reduce the deficit you don't want.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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Art:What are you saying. That the US workers are sending their earnings to Mexico and China as charity?
Glass: NO, Mexico is actively sending in migrants who send their money back while living off our social benefits system..... China? well i think you spell that one with a capital W for starters...just look at the trade deficit we have with them...it's ridiculous...
Art: Yes, those migrants spend their money in the US and pay taxes to the US (sales taxes if they are illegals).
As far as trade deficits we get goods for what we pay - it is called business - and this means earnings for US companies selling imported products, more jobs for US workers working for these companies, better US economy, more US taxes paid to help reduce the deficit you don't want.
glassman: so i'm wrong? the numbers support my assertions...
Art: Yes, you are wrong.
Can you show me where Mexican immigrants get more in Social Security and send more money home, than they earn here? Some of them send a little of what they get here to their Mexican relatives - very little. Nearly all the money migrants get here is recycled back into our economy in paying rent, utilites, goods, services, and buying those cars that go up and down, or is paid to the US in taxes.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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quote:Originally posted by Art: art: No one forced the kids to join the Armed Services and they knew they might face combat.
turbo: very true, but for some kids coming from poor families the training and pay that the army offers is hard to beat. i guess they could work at walmart and continue the cycle of being poor.
art: We are winning the war on terror and democracy is our greatest weapon.
turbo: False, we are not winning the war on terror, in fact it will never be "won" and with the current actions against iraq and afghanistan and possibly syria and iran we are creating more and more people who have an increasing hatred for the US. Also while attacking terrorist training camps is helpful, it doesnt take a training camp in some remote desert to board a plane and fly it into a building, or pack a car full of explosives and drive it into your local krispy kreme shop.
Art: Yes, there will be terrorist attacks for a few more years, and some will be on U.S. soil, but this would have been worse, and would have lasted longer without any mideast peace, if we had not invaded Iraq and brought democracy to the mideast. turbo: only a few more years? so i guess we just wait it out and hope its not me on the particular plane they decide to hijack, or my city targeted for a nuclear detonation? Also there is no mideast peace, in fact there is more tension than ever, the palestine-israel conflict will never end, its a religious battle for the same land neither side is going to back down, ever. crazy jews will continue to shoot and kill palestinians and crazy arabs will continue to bomb and shoot the jews. And americas continued support (weapons and money) for "the only democracy in the middle east" will only alienate the arabs and force them to retaliate, as you may remember on 9/11. These people feel that they have been treated unfairly and are willing do die to make there point, how do you "win" against that?
Art:Peace will come to the mideast in 5 to 7 years, a Arab peace with Israel will be accomplished, and no serious disruption in mideast oil supply (that could create a world-wide economic depression) will occur. In 10 years Bush will be regarded as a great president.
turbo: I doubt that, if the jews and arabs have been fighting for thousands of years what makes you think that bush and his war machine can come and make people think differently about the past and change their views on their religious beliefs? This will not happen, and if america keeps propping up Israel with money and weapons we are sure to be the target of many, many more terrorist attacks as being the backer (financially and militarily) of oppression against the arabs by the jews. It only makes sense to go after the heart of the beast.
So lets take a snapshot of where we are: we are at war with iraq and afghanistan, we are contemplating war with syria and iran, we find out that russia might be helping out the arabs with weapons that can penitrate our tanks, the only real allies we have is the british, we are getting nowhere with the north koreans, there is an increasing bad attitude against america worldwide, we are spending billions on the war, cutting taxes, spending more on homeland security, sending jobs overseas, less people are signing up for the armed services, etc. I fail to see how we are going to do better and it doesnt make sense to me that cutting taxes and spending more money on war with several countries will make a strong economy. it sounds like a recipe for disaster. Sounds like the brown fecal matter is about to hit the ceiling mounted muti-bladed electric cooling device.
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930
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Art: No one forced the kids to join the Armed Services and they knew they might face combat.
turbo: very true, but for some kids coming from poor families the training and pay that the army offers is hard to beat. i guess they could work at walmart and continue the cycle of being poor.
Art: Yes we should have equal pay for everyone in the nation, or at least close to what Cuba does. Then our economy will sink to the level of Cuba.
You hate capitalism - pay according to what you offer in the competitive labor market to insure maximally production and the best standard of living for everyone.
Wonder if those poor kids who joined the Armed Services would like to move to Cuba. There they would have little choice where they worked or what they did.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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Art: We are winning the war on terror and democracy is our greatest weapon.
turbo: False, we are not winning the war on terror, in fact it will never be "won" and with the current actions against iraq and afghanistan and possibly syria and iran we are creating more and more people who have an increasing hatred for the US.
Art: We are winning and will win. Terrorists are becoming viewed as enemies of the state that they are in, no matter where, who hurt innocent citizens. They attract sadistic killers or suicidal nuts, and we are killing them off. Look at the demonstrations in Lebanon against Syria, the Palestinian elections, and the initiation of democracy in Egypt. The US is being increasingly viewed by Arabs as a savior to Arab nations. It will take more time but watch this unfold.
Art: Yes, there will be terrorist attacks for a few more years, and some will be on U.S. soil, but this would have been worse, and would have lasted longer without any mideast peace, if we had not invaded Iraq and brought democracy to the mideast.
turbo: only a few more years? so i guess we just wait it out and hope its not me on the particular plane they decide to hijack, or my city targeted for a nuclear detonation?
Art: It would have been worse if we had not invaded Iraq - sanctions would be lifted against Saddam who would be reactivating his WMD programs, Iran would be uninhindered in developing nuclear weapons, terrorist would be growing and attacking on US soil, Israel would have to attack Iran's nuclear program or a nuclear war wpoiuld erupt in the mideast creating a world wide economic depression, etc., etc.
turbo: Also there is no mideast peace, in fact there is more tension than ever, the palestine-israel conflict will never end, its a religious battle for the same land neither side is going to back down, ever. crazy jews will continue to shoot and kill palestinians and crazy arabs will continue to bomb and shoot the jews.
Art: Peace is coming. We are moving toward a Palestinian renounciation of terrorism with a creation of a Palestinian state. It is happening right in front of you - terrorists attacks against Israel have declined remarkably.
The last thing the terrorists want is peace, as they get money for continued strife with no peace. They will get no support when peace prevails.
The last thin peoiple like you want is peace as this will prove Bush right.
turbo: And americas continued support (weapons and money) for "the only democracy in the middle east" will only alienate the arabs and force them to retaliate, as you may remember on 9/11. These people feel that they have been treated unfairly and are willing do die to make there point, how do you "win" against that?
Art: Wrong. Arabs want democracy - Arab dictators don't want it. Arabs are seeing the US in a different and favorable light, and coming to depend on the US to help them, which we will.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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Art:Peace will come to the mideast in 5 to 7 years, a Arab peace with Israel will be accomplished, and no serious disruption in mideast oil supply (that could create a world-wide economic depression) will occur. In 10 years Bush will be regarded as a great president.
turbo: I doubt that, if the jews and arabs have been fighting for thousands of years what makes you think that bush and his war machine can come and make people think differently about the past and change their views on their religious beliefs?
Art: Democracy. The people want peace - only a minority fuel the flames of continued strife. With democracy the peole will be heard and the minority terrorists will be snuffed out, by force if need be.
turbo: .. if america keeps propping up Israel with money and weapons we are sure to be the target of many, many more terrorist attacks as being the backer (financially and militarily) of oppression against the arabs by the jews.
Art: Like most liberals you can only whine about Bush and not offer any alternative program.
WHAT SHOULD WE DO IN YOUR OPINION!
Please - no nonsense about using more diplomacy or you instantly lose your credibility.
Tell me - should we discontinue all support of Israel and withdraw from the mideast, as you suggest above?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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quote:Originally posted by Art: Art: No one forced the kids to join the Armed Services and they knew they might face combat.
turbo: very true, but for some kids coming from poor families the training and pay that the army offers is hard to beat. i guess they could work at walmart and continue the cycle of being poor.
Art: Yes we should have equal pay for everyone in the nation, or at least close to what Cuba does. Then our economy will sink to the level of Cuba.
You hate capitalism - pay according to what you offer in the competitive labor market to insure maximally production and the best standard of living for everyone.
turbo: the mere fact that we are having this discussion on a stock board should dispell the accusation that i hate capitalism. Dont twist the words art, i never said equal pay for everyone, i said for some people who want to get ahead in life but come from a poor background, have little choice but to take the armed services route, and sometimes end up dead just because they wanted a better life. I have friends from every different aspect, one had little choice but to join, he had bad grades and was destined to be a burger flipper, one wanted the training to become a cook and ended up in iraq, one wanted to kill arabs for the attacks on 9/11 (they declined him because he had tattoos on his face) and one wanted to continue the family tradition of being a marine. some were hoping for war, and some just wanted good money to feed the kids.
Wonder if those poor kids who joined the Armed Services would like to move to Cuba. There they would have little choice where they worked or what they did.
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930
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quote:Originally posted by Art: Art:Peace will come to the mideast in 5 to 7 years, a Arab peace with Israel will be accomplished, and no serious disruption in mideast oil supply (that could create a world-wide economic depression) will occur. In 10 years Bush will be regarded as a great president.
turbo: I doubt that, if the jews and arabs have been fighting for thousands of years what makes you think that bush and his war machine can come and make people think differently about the past and change their views on their religious beliefs?
Art: Democracy. The people want peace - only a minority fuel the flames of continued strife. With democracy the peole will be heard and the minority terrorists will be snuffed out, by force if need be.
turbo: SOME people want peace, some do not, and that minority you speak of is growing daily.
turbo: .. if america keeps propping up Israel with money and weapons we are sure to be the target of many, many more terrorist attacks as being the backer (financially and militarily) of oppression against the arabs by the jews.
Art: Like most liberals you can only whine about Bush and not offer any alternative program.
turbo: i am not whining about bush, it doesnt matter which president we have, each one would support israel and continue the same mideast policies that are already in effect. It is these policies that fuel the hatred of the US, spoken from the terrorists themselves.
art:WHAT SHOULD WE DO IN YOUR OPINION!
Please - no nonsense about using more diplomacy or you instantly lose your credibility.
turbo: im not going to pretend to have all the answers, this is a complicated matter but what do you think it would be like if america kept to itself and didnt support one religion over another? such as the case with countries like canada. now im sure you will badmouth canada but i dont see any planes flying into there buildings. Art :Tell me - should we discontinue all support of Israel and withdraw from the mideast, as you suggest above? turbo: this would be nice and solve alot of problems, but unlikely, america has been the puppet of Israel for years even though we have no vested interest in Israel, they provide nothing we need, and are basically a parasite of taxpayers money, and continue to cause problems for us by way of arab hatred and terrorism, we continue our support, this can only lead me to believe one thing, that the people who are making the mideast policies are themselves jewish, and wish to use america by proxy to fight the holy war and create the "greater israel" as said in the bible. you cant tell me that arabs would hate us if we didnt support israel.
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930
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Art: Yes we should have equal pay for everyone in the nation, or at least close to what Cuba does. Then our economy will sink to the level of Cuba.
You hate capitalism - pay according to what you offer in the competitive labor market to insure maximal production and the best standard of living for everyone.
turbo: the mere fact that we are having this discussion on a stock board should dispell the accusation that i hate capitalism. Dont twist the words art, i never said equal pay for everyone, i said for some people who want to get ahead in life but come from a poor background, have little choice but to take the armed services route, and sometimes end up dead just because they wanted a better life. I have friends from every different aspect, one had little choice but to join, he had bad grades and was destined to be a burger flipper, one wanted the training to become a cook and ended up in iraq, one wanted to kill arabs for the attacks on 9/11 (they declined him because he had tattoos on his face) and one wanted to continue the family tradition of being a marine. some were hoping for war, and some just wanted good money to feed the kids.
Art: So? What then is your point? That's capitalism. Many have to start out at the bottom and slowly work up, maybe their family works themselves up slowly over generations.
The kid who went into the Army had the choice of flipping burgers for MacDonalds, who would give him a frachise and loan opportunity after years of service, so that kid could eventually become a millionare.
Some kids who join the Armed services look for good benefits and easy work, but they knew the risk. Many want combat excitement and make a career of the service or when they come out they become policemen. Some get tech training in the service which they use later in civilian life. Some die for their country, but more die in the U.S. from domestic violence or in traffic accidents.
You moan and whine like a liberal, who never has a realistic solution to any problem.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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