posted
American military personnel serving in Iraq are largely young men and women from working class and minority backgrounds.
For the most part, they didn’t join the armed forces out of patriotic fervor or bellicose obsession. In a society fraught with economic injustice that makes it increasingly difficult for youth to find living-wage jobs or unimpeded paths to essential advancement, the assured income and training options afforded by the military have been the chief enlistment incentive for a majority of those presently in uniform.
Kids who were high school students not that long ago are soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines today primarily because they needed to get their hands on some money to get ahead.
They obviously didn’t want to be sent half way around the world -- indefinitely -- to become rocket-propelled grenade fodder in an aggressive, unnecessary war that only the most uninformed could naively think isn’t actually being fought in furtherance of blatant imperialism.
Their dreadful months in Iraq have been an eye-opener, and a radicalizing experience for many. They’ve been communicating with their distant loved ones via e-mail, expressing profound disillusionment over the outrageous lies they were told. Even Stars & Stripes, the U.S. military newspaper that propagandistically promotes the official government line, has had to acknowledge pervasive low morale and spreading anger among those mired in Iraq.
The brutal reality they've encountered has been a pivotal impetus for the determined activism of Military Families Speak Out, a growing peace group with credence and emotional clout that can’t be easily dismissed.
On its website (www.mfso.org) are several letters and statements that evince a compelling truth Washington war hawks have good reason to fear.
Here's an excerpt from one of them:
"I am a 20 year old college student and a friend of mine from college, who was only 19 years old, was killed in Iraq. He and I used to talk often in class about the impending war and he feared being sent to fight for a cause he did not believe in. He did not believe in this war, but he would say he had to sign up for military service because his family did not have enough money to pay for college. George Bush says we have no money for veterans, we have no money for children, we have no money for the elderly, and we have no money for education, but we have plenty of money for war and occupation. What a tragedy it is that the amount of money George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld have spent on this war could have sent Michael to college a million times over."
And there's this from the wife of an activated Army Reservist deployed in Iraq:
"It appears that the living conditions of the people we claim to 'free' are far worse than when Saddam was in control? It is no wonder they want us out? I can not blame them, can you? It seems to me and to many Americans, that this war was not about freeing the people of Iraq or about weapons of mass destruction, but was truly about greed and power. Haliburton and the oil companies are now the benefactors, and my husband, our soldiers, the taxpayers, and the people of Iraq are paying the enormous price for their wealth."
Our troops face blistering heat, lack of sleep, inadequate supplies (including a shortage of bulletproof vests), a cloying diet of Meals Ready to Eat, and relentless attacks from a populace they were told would joyously welcome them as liberators. Additionally, they have no idea when and if they'll be extricated from the chaotic debacle into which Bush's wild extremism thrust them.
It comes as no surprise, therefore, that several of the troops who recently came stateside for a brief respite have apparently gone AWOL, risking court martial. Iraq is not a place anyone who's gotten away from unscathed would gladly return to.
No one knows that better than the rapidly escalating number of often severely wounded individuals whose sacrifice is shamefully under reported - - even dismissed -- by media that concentrate only on those killed in proliferating, increasingly more deadly Iraqi ambushes and bombings.
Hospitals on U.S. military bases and in the Washington, D.C. area are filling with legless, armless, blinded and otherwise grievously injured soldiers.
Incredibly, these hurting sons and daughters of America have discovered that they've been personally charged with the cost of their hospital meals. Not enough federal dollars to go around.
Meanwhile, a Senate that cravenly abdicated its responsibility to prevent the needless carnage of this objectively unwarranted folly just voted itself a pay raise!
There is a sickness loose in our land...the same moral malady induced by rampant avarice that brought down the Roman Empire.
Bush's audacious attempt to forge a Pax Americana empire for the benefit of monopoly capitalists -- by squandering our federal treasury and freely spilling young service people's blood -- is a travesty treasonous to our country's best interest and its finest ideals.
An inescapable reality must determine our collective course of action.
This war is categorically wrong. It plainly can't be won. American troops have no legitimate business being anywhere near Iraq, let alone occupying it in a power and profit grab dictated by rightwing/reactionary forces that have temporarily gained political dominance.
For horrible reasons our troops are enduring each and every day, they themselves want to get out of Iraq. Not later, but immediately.
We have a clear duty to use our Constitutional right of protest to create a climate conducive to promptly realizing that necessity.
As they suffer the betrayal of being killed and maimed for a series of colossal falsehoods, there is only one authentic way to "support" our troops.
By hitting the streets and resolutely demanding "Out Now!"
Dennis Rahkonen
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930
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glass.. i agree with you, we share alot of the same views, i just have a hard time thinking that we will have the funds to see it through, not to mention the lack of moral and the lack of new recruits to take the places of the dead. Not to mention the nagging iran, syria nonsense. If a country like iraq, which didnt have to military might to chase a camel out of its backyard can put up such a fight, what would a solid, large army like iran do to us. We are becoming overextended and facing a national upheaval, with growing discernment for the elected officials and their actions.
-nervously waiting for the next terror attack, Turbokid.
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930
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getagrip on you're fear.... that's part of the game... as you pointed out, the troops are real people and need our support. i am disgusted that we have invested all of this money the way we have too..
elections are the ONLY rational answer....
instead of promoting By hitting the streets and resolutely demanding "Out Now!"
you need to get involved in politics... real change comes from within.... the last election was a bad joke... people didn't even want to see the truth...
BUT since the election is over? it doesn't matter...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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"nervously waiting for the next terror attack"
It looks like osama has become aware of the fact that Americans dont care if their poor, oppressed, mostly minority soliders overseas are getting slaughtered. He asked al-zarqawi to focus his attention on the US mainland... this is going to be a REAL test for Bush's homeland security over the next 3-5 years.
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i predict that in the next few years we will see a strong "whiplash" response to the current new conservative attitudes... just as this new conservative movement gained momentum from the frivolities and excesses of the "liberal" Clinton admin....
i see local politics here in the south already beginning to suffer miserably from the way the funding has been "diverted" away from REQUIRED programs in education and health...
the state governors of our nation are beginning to feel real heat....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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No one forced the kids to join the Armed Services and they knew they might face combat.
We are winning the war on terror and democracy is our greatest weapon.
Yes, there will be terrorist attacks for a few more years, and some will be on U.S. soil, but this would have been worse, and would have lasted longer without any mideast peace, if we had not invaded Iraq and brought democracy to the mideast.
Peace will come to the mideast in 5 to 7 years, a Arab peace with Israel will be accomplished, and no serious disruption in mideast oil supply (that could create a world-wide economic depression) will occur. In 10 years Bush will be regarded as a great president.
Short-sighted and delusional liberals just don't get it - never have and never will. They still can't get over losing 2 presidential elections in a row, see doom and gloom everywhere, and block all Bush initiatives like allowing people, with no money to invest, to have the option of investing a small part of their SS input IF THEY CHOOSE. Apparently liberals believe that investing should be restricted to the rich.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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turbokid: .....This war is categorically wrong. It plainly can't be won. American troops have no legitimate business being anywhere near Iraq, let alone occupying it in a power and profit grab dictated by rightwing/reactionary forces that have temporarily gained political dominance.
For horrible reasons our troops are enduring each and every day, they themselves want to get out of Iraq. Not later, but immediately.
We have a clear duty to use our Constitutional right of protest to create a climate conducive to promptly realizing that necessity.
As they suffer the betrayal of being killed and maimed for a series of colossal falsehoods, there is only one authentic way to "support" our troops.
By hitting the streets and resolutely demanding "Out Now!" -Dennis Rahkonen
Art: Sounds like this is straight out of al Qaeda propaganda. The terrorists love to hear this kind of talk over here as it weakens US resolve and helps them fight the US.
Spread this garbage around to all your friends who hate the US - help kill Americans!
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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How do you liberals make it in life much less the stock market? This is a stock trading forum which means by being here you trade stocks and therefore enjoy risk. How can you possibly enjoy risk if you see doom around every corner? You invest money in companies you publicly decry for their monopolous debauchery. You publicly denounce a president who has made you more money than any other president since Regan. You call the aggressive defense of america illegal. You tell us you support the troops for being too stupid to know what they are doing is wrong. Then finally you tell the rest of us how wrong we are for taking note of the witless nature of your banter.
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"Young people are generally liberal while as they get older and see reality they become more conservative."
You should know that its also because what was previously thought of liberal in their youth BECOMES conservative in their old age because of how much things change over time. This has more to do with social values though.
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liberals are thriving in america at all levels of the society. and making statements like that shows clearly that the propagandists are making a good living.
how can you make money in markets without thinking for yourselves? you NEED to be skeptical....
Bush has made us more money? you are not facing reality at all...when the facts are presented? you say, well, the President doesn't really control that.(and you are correct when you say that)...
the country is facing PERILOUS amounts of debt, retail and governmental...i choose not to participate in the retail debt, and the govt. debt is for sure Bush's responsibility..
as far as the troops? i have been a "troop" i know that (as a troop) mine is not to question why...so i KNOW that the "troops" are NOT being disrespected by questioning the politicians motives...
society moves thru cycles...just remember that the depression was preceded by a strong "conservative movement" (prohibition and the eugenics supporters) eugenics was much more popular in the US than the history books like to admit (MUCH MORE)....many prominent americans supported it, and the Germans finally "perfected" it at Auschwitz.... the war in Iraq has cost US so much in $$ and international political capital that we have no "pull out option"...
just remeber: i warned you a year ago that the Shi'ites were likely to end up in control of Iraq when/if we leave and they have the majority in the newly elected Iraq govt NOW
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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we need the non-fundamental Moslems to start taking responsibility for their own problems.... poverty and disenfranchisement is what the terrorists feed off of....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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there are very few 18 year old soldiers in iraq... most of them are 40 and they are reservest... and the reason they are tired is that they have been there for a couple of years, there business and job is leaving them and they miss there wife and kids...
that does not mean they would tell you its not important they just want some relief.
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glassman: just remeber: i warned you a year ago that the Shi'ites were likely to end up in control of Iraq when/if we leave and they have the majority in the newly elected Iraq govt NOW
Art: Yes, the Shia are in the majority so it was a no-brainer to predict they would have the loudest voice in a democracy.
And your point about this is? What is your warning?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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I think his warning is that bad **** might happen if the Shia's start acting like the Sunni's did (opressing the Kurds and whatnot) when they had control.
Right now the TEMPORARY US constitution will stop this from taking place, but they will soon draw up a new constitution, and the Shia's are looking to fill it with muslim laws much like Iran.
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Iran does not have a democracy. Their leaders are not elected from alternative candidates running for the same office, by the citizens of Iran. Most Iranians want a democracy but their theocracy is a dictatorship that controls the country.
Iraq is never going to ally with Iran against the west.
Israel has the only democracy in the mideast, and Iraq is developing the second one.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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The Shia and Kurds are forming an alliance.
The Sunni have removed themselves from the democracy by not voting and are anti-democracy in Iraq. The Shia and Kurds are pro-democracy in Iraq, and are will adopt a democratic anti-Iranian secular state.
Egypt is moving toward a democracy. Peace is breaking out in the mideast and will spread as democracy spreads there - democracy is our most powerful weapon against terrorism.
If the US were to pull out now, civil war would erupt in Iraq and elsewhere, Iran would develop nuclear weapons and sponser terrorism in Iraq, there would be no Israeli-Palestine peace as things got worse there, terrorism would take root and grow, the world would experience economic depression as the mideast oil supply was disrupted, Bush would go down as the worst president in history, and the liberals would rejoice along with their terrorist allies.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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quote:Originally posted by Art: Iran does not have a democracy. Their leaders are not elected from alternative candidates running for the same office, by the citizens of Iran. Most Iranians want a democracy but their theocracy is a dictatorship that controls the country.
Iraq is never going to ally with Iran against the west.
Israel has the only democracy in the mideast, and Iraq is developing the second one.
notice i posted "democracy" not DEMOCRACY Art... you speak as if you know these people, yet your statements CLEARLY show that you do not....
Iraq is never going to ally with Iran? they are already more aligned than they were before we invaded...MUCH more....India and Russia are also becoming more closely aligned......
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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as far as your liberal slanders? they show extreme intolerance for disagreement..... sad..... i expect you to offer facts to support your analysis not namecalling... Bush is already being beginning to be held at arms length by many Republicans in the house and senate, state governors are frustrated that they are being given unfunded mandates, AARP has beeen slandered by the SS propagandists...yes, i predicted that Bush would be unable to live up the expectations developed during the election, and we will see a shift back to the left over the next few years...and i will then be chiding the liberals for their excesses too...(as i was during the Clinton admin)
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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glassman: Iraq is never going to ally with Iran? they are already more aligned than they were before we invaded...MUCH more....India and Russia are also becoming more closely aligned......
Art: So what do you predict is going to happen, since you disagre with my predictions? The opposit of my assertions such as:
A dominance in Iraq of the Shia to oppose the Kurds? An alliance of Iraq and Iran against the U.S. with support of terorism in Israel and derailment of the peace process there? A theocracy in Iraq like in Iran?
How about explicit and clear statements instead of snide remarks and implicit disagreements, while ducking any confrontation of the issues raised?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: AARP has beeen slandered by the SS propagandists...
The AARP is in bed with many special interest groups like the drug companies (they are against buying cheaper drugs from Canda for medicare recipients), and represent their own interests, and a liberal agenda, even when this goes against the best interests of retired people and others who one day wil retire.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: OK, so now the AARP is another "liberal" organisatation?...hmmmmm....
Yes, they have a liberal bias. Bush will likely be blocked, by the Democrats, from reforming Social Security. Later, when the Democrats get in, they will be forced to do something, and may well adopt Bush's plan as their own. Then the AARP will endorse this Democratic plan which they now oppose as a Republican plan.
hmmmmm.....
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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By the way, Franklin Roosevelt, who started Social Security, endorsed private investment of paid-in money, on the part of those paying into SS, in line with what Bush advocates.
hmmmmm......
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: i can't believe you guys....
liberals are thriving in america at all levels of the society. and making statements like that shows clearly that the propagandists are making a good living.
how can you make money in markets without thinking for yourselves? you NEED to be skeptical....
Bush has made us more money? you are not facing reality at all...when the facts are presented? you say, well, the President doesn't really control that.(and you are correct when you say that)...
the country is facing PERILOUS amounts of debt, retail and governmental...i choose not to participate in the retail debt, and the govt. debt is for sure Bush's responsibility..
as far as the troops? i have been a "troop" i know that (as a troop) mine is not to question why...so i KNOW that the "troops" are NOT being disrespected by questioning the politicians motives...
society moves thru cycles...just remember that the depression was preceded by a strong "conservative movement" (prohibition and the eugenics supporters) eugenics was much more popular in the US than the history books like to admit (MUCH MORE)....many prominent americans supported it, and the Germans finally "perfected" it at Auschwitz.... the war in Iraq has cost US so much in $$ and international political capital that we have no "pull out option"...
just remeber: i warned you a year ago that the Shi'ites were likely to end up in control of Iraq when/if we leave and they have the majority in the newly elected Iraq govt NOW
Liberals are thriving in this society because they do not live their lives in adherance to liberal theology. If they did they would all ride mountain bikes to work and sacrafice ninety-two percent of their pay to big government... A.K.A. "the greater good".
Being skeptical is quite different from preforming your best chicken little impersonation for us all.
Bush has made you more money than any prez since Regan simply because of the tax cuts HE implemented. The facts are that we were begining to recess economically at the end of the century and the only way to avoid a long term downtrend was to increase private sector money flow.
You don't participate in retail debt? Good for you... cudos... truly. let me ask, what an economic recession means for tax revenue. Up or down? You blame Bush for something that started before he was in office.... not a smart thing to do but hey my expectations are limited.... keep proving I am right... good job
I was a "troop" as well as every male in my family. It was our duty to follow orders at all times. Every male in my family has met combat and has done his duty. Every war this country has engaged in has been just... missunderstood? oh yeah the propogandists and their pawns have misconstrued the meaning of our actions with an unfortunate amount of sucsess. You, Glass, are proof of this. Your arguement is that the war was unjust.. the "wrong war at the wrong time"... illegal... immoral. Yet it doesn't trouble you in the least that you are on the side of Saddamm... your side is opposed to American or any other kind of freedom.
We do have a "pull out" option Glass. We will leave when the new Iraqi government can hold it's own. Not once was it said that we would leave on any certain date. We will leave when the situation allows. Would you have a cop leave a hostage situation twenty-three minutes after arriving simply because some witless whiner asked it? Glass, grow up. Recessions happen after "breakout" periods. Wars are fought when words fail. This is Earth... welcome to it.
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oh yeah the propogandists and their pawns have misconstrued the meaning of our actions with an unfortunate amount of sucsess. You, Glass, are proof of this. Your arguement is that the war was unjust.. the "wrong war at the wrong time"... illegal... immoral.
you misquote/misrepresent me again..this is common propagandist technique....
i have stated over and over again that i am not anti-war, and i have no problem with waging war. i do have problems with the way we have gone about it, and i have problems with LIARS
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Bush didn't "make" me or anybody any money with tax cuts... he BORROWED it from our children to give it to us today...
He didn't "borrow" anything... He made government let you keep more of "your" money. Only you Glass could bitch about the pot the gold was in.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And Your Wit Shall Be Made Bankrupt
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: you need to review your economics... i am not "of an opinion" on this...it's FACT
Review this. The more money I make the more I "GIVE" to governement.... therefore the more revenue "they" receive. Keep reviewing, cuddles, I'll wait for you to catch up.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And Your Wit Shall Be Made Bankrupt
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Bush didn't "make" me or anybody any money with tax cuts... he BORROWED it from our children to give it to us today...
Wrong again.
Everyone paying taxes benefited immediately by having more money under Bush. Putting more money into the taxpayers' hands, instead of allowing it to be wasted by government, served to stimulate the economy out of the Clinton recession, which means that more taxes will be paid back into government than would be the case if the economy did not strengthen.
9/11 was a wild card that did cause us to spend more on homeland security and defense but the economy is still growing and more taxes are continuing to be paid into government.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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