posted
You see when I was in high school, teachers were not allowed to say Merry Christmas because it is a christian holiday and not everybody is christian. Another important story is of the judge (true story) who based her judgment on the bible. Because of this, the judgment was thrown out. Now, lets relate this to gay marriage. Originally I was completely against gay marriages, but after doing a thesis on it, I have changed my mind completely.
If Bush, or anybody else for that reason, says gay marriage is wrong, he is saying so because of his religious beliefs. He is entitled to these beliefs. However, just as in the judge example, if she was not allowed to make a judgment based upon what it says in the bible, (the same bible the defendent had to place his hand on and swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth...so help him God) then why should a judgment for marriage be made based upon the bible? (The Bible is not everybodys book!) Everybody is supposed to be treated equal - religion does not allow this when it comes to gay marriage. Because of this, there is no justifiable reason that gay marriages should not be allowed. Simply put, saying the bible says it is wrong is not good enough.
What does everybody else feel about this? Provide an argument that is not based on religion! Saying it doesn't look right doesn't count either.
posted
Well religion has always been a part of our constitution and history.For example congress opens each session with a prayer.Currency in GOD WE TRUST.The whole problem with this country is trying to remove God from everything.And there is now a great lack of morals in this countrys new generations.Our fore fathers defined marriage between a man and a woman.Not man and man,woman and woman, dog and woman man and sheep.Now they are free to do what they want i just don't have to accommodate them and change the constitution.Once again our problem is this politically correct crap.If tommy is a moron flunk him staying back a year might save his life.If he can't read give him an F if his feelings are hurt, good he will try harder.No everybody does not get to make the baseball team like they do now, you have tryouts and if little timmy sucks and gets cut he will learn from it and try harder.Without failure,theres no success,without falling on your face how do you know if you can get back up.Cut the catering to everybody.Sorry no to all this catering to not hurting anyones feelings.Marriage is between a man and a woman.You want to be gay that is up to you, it is your life and enjoy whatever makes you happy,but we don't have to change the sanctity of marriage for you. IMHO. By the way marriage is a religious ceremony.So why would you want to be married then.Without god there would have been no marriage.So that wipes out that whole theory.
[This message has been edited by tigertony (edited October 20, 2004).]
posted
On that note,If you can't read english you should'nt be able to get a drivers license.If you can't speak english you should not be hired for a job to take food orders or handle customers until you can.Most frustratig dam thing in the world they are taking my order and have to wait for someone to come explain what i mean,i'm the freaking customer.America Live it, Love it,Learn it or Leave it.Before anybody tries some racist crap i am puertorican and italian.C'mon we have lost common sense.Lets, let people who can't read the road signs drive. HELLO.We let all differrent races take the test in another language. I would refuse to take my own relative unless they could read english.We will continue the pledge of allegiance,you don't like it TFB.We will not change our whole way of life in america to acommodate everyone.That is the whole problem,you cant.Be happy you are in this great free country and live your life. Who knows maybe we will finish this accomodate everyone crap.God Help Us All
[This message has been edited by tigertony (edited October 20, 2004).]
posted
Most people say marriage is between a man and a woman. What Bush has said is that the court system of one state should not dictate law for the entire country. Read the bill carefully and you will see I am right... as usual. The question is do any of us wish to give state courts the ability to make national laws? Surely I hope not as this would mean that you would be desireous of this country no longer being a republic.
Posts: 1019 | From: Are You With The CIA? | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
In mass, the politicians were afraid to make a decision when the courts asked them to. The courts then made the decision to allow gay marriage.....
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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It is true, that if a person doesn't believe in the scriptures,where it says that God doesn't condone a homosexual lifestyle, than it shouldn't matter to them, whether they get married or not, since marriage is based on religious beliefs! Since I base my life, on God and His Word, I believe that it is wrong! That doesn't mean that I don't care about them, because I do, and I've been in several battles with best friends over it, and they have left the lifestyle, to preserve their own family! To me, one sin is as bad as another, and we are all sinners, so we can't point the finger, just tell them the truth as we see it in God's Word!
Posts: 622 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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to anybody who agrees that same sex marriages should be allowed... what is your defenition of marriage?
Posts: 1153 | From: northeast | Registered: Apr 2004
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This argument can be debated over and over until the sun doesn't shine. The fact is that there is so much hypocrisy in America it will make your head spin just thinking about it. While we claim to separate church from state, the idea of religion itself is wolven into the very fabric of our society. Hence the "selective" use of the bible, prayer, phrases, etc. by our political figures and institutions when there is a need to place judgement/law and order on the people.
[This message has been edited by kamikaze (edited October 20, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by kamikaze (edited October 20, 2004).]
1) Man created God; 2) Man created religion; 3) Man created and wrote the scriptures, and 4) Man (man and woman in the general sense) created homosexuality, and 5) Man created right and wrong.
Who is to say which of "man's" creations are good or bad -- right or wrong. Long before established religion, man (in the general sense) was possessive when it came to each other (male and female...and probably even like sexes). Therefore, marriage in the broader sense is not religious but natural...from a possessive point of view.
I believe one should live and let live. Life is too short otherwise. We become fodder for the worms and maggots. So, what does it matter when we are deceased whether or not someone of the same sex gets married. It just is not my cup of tea. That is called "choice"!
i believe that marriage is about children.... we make a committment to one another to protect each other and our children... this union is a contract between two people, for the BENEFIT of their CHILDREN...
unfortunately,too,too many marriages (and the children) are abandoned....
people who don't have children, don't NEED the protection of marriage...a civil union is and should be acceptable to protect the rights they deserve in a relationship... such as survivorship, and hosp. visiting rights....i think that a contract can be designed for this....
close as i can get....W/O religion.... marriage is what marriage is... a man and a woman... anything else isn't marriage..it IS something, and it DOES and (IMO)SHOULD be respected by the rest of society, but it's not marriage...(a rose by any other name) i doubt that will satisfy anybody...but it's how i feel...
posted
Glass, sit down... relax I have something to say that might stop your heart. You are right on the money.
Posts: 1019 | From: Are You With The CIA? | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Agreed, Glass and DQR. Civil union is OK as long as it protects their rights.
Just remember, some gays do have children, adopted, natural born or otherwise. However, as long as a civil union protects those children's rights as well, it's OK with me. If not, let them marry.
So-called sin is strictly in the eyes of the beholder! Life goes on.
quote:Originally posted by futuresobjective: to anybody who agrees that same sex marriages should be allowed... what is your defenition of marriage?
To me, marriage is mostly about the legal union of two people. I mean you can live with your girlfriend have sex, kids, both go to work and raise your kids and never get married (of course there is common-law but we won't include that), and even though you are not married, you are doing all of the same things you would if you were married.
If gay people are not allowed to get marriend they lose out on a lot of benefits that hetero couples are allowed. For example, I was watching a gay rally or something and there were gay speakers. One lady was going to have to move to the UK with her partner because her partner's visa (who was from the UK) was about to expire. Now if they were allowed to get married they wouldn't have this problem.
I understand that you probably view marriage as a religious belief and that is fine. Possibly on that alone marriage should not be allowed, unless there are pastors willing to do the ceremony. But to deny these people of the rights that hetero couples get is not right in my opinion.
posted
You hit the nail on the head it is a religious ceremony that was made to bind a man and woman as one before God.Now if they want to come up with there own thing thats up to them.We don't have to change our beliefs to accommodate them.We believe that it is wrong.
Posts: 942 | From: tracy,ca U.S.A | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by tigertony: You hit the nail on the head it is a religious ceremony that was made to bind a man and woman as one before God.Now if they want to come up with there own thing thats up to them.We don't have to change our beliefs to accommodate them.We believe that it is wrong.
On that note, all homosexuals should die and burn in hell. Homosexuality is wrong from a biblical standpoint, the bible is not the only book people believe in, but some homosexuals do still believe in God, and worship to him. God forgives people of their sins, so he will forgive homosexuals. So in that case, anything that is said to be wrong in the Bible, can still be done, only that it is a sin, but God will later forgive for that sin.
All I am saying is that just because God says something about the religious binding doesn't mean they should be treated unfairly when it comes to the laws of our country.
*** If the ten commandments cannot be posted outside of a courthouse, that same courthouse should not be able to stop two homosexuals from getting married because of what the bible says.
[This message has been edited by glfpimp (edited October 21, 2004).]
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No they should not die and burn in hell.You will be forgiven for your sins if you ask forgiveness and don't continue to do things if you know they are a sin.You are not given a free ride to live a life being a mean,vile,uncaring,unfaithful,killer,or any of those similar and then when you die think all is forgiven.I do not have any judgement on what any one does in there life only God does.I strive everyday to better myself and have along way to go.If your theory were correct you could go rob and shoot people knowing its wrong and think when you die all is forgiven.Does'nt work that way.I don't want them to be treated unfairly,but they don't have the right to change the definition of marriage which came from our religious beliefs.They are changing,and allowing domestic partners insurance,and expanding it everyday and that is good and should continue without them having to change our vows of marriage.They should not be treated unfairly,or differently on that we agree.
Posts: 942 | From: tracy,ca U.S.A | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
What if: God created man, in his own image! Man created religion, God created Christianity! Man wrote the scriptures, inspired by God. satan created homosexuality, and every other sin, written about in God's Word. God created right, and satan created wrong.God created light; satan created darkness!
If you are a Christian, and you believe this way, you know beyond a shadow of a doubt, what is right and wrong, because the Holy Spirit dwells within, and TELLS you what is right! It is up to you, whether you listen to satans lies or not, and whether you act upon them, and do what is wrong! It is called Free will! If you are living for yourself, you listen to the lies! If you are living for others, you won't listen to them! It's as complicated, or as simple as that! Many people are turned against Christians, simply because someone they looked up to in their past, used religion as an excuse to do what they wanted, and caused pain in the lives of others because of it! That isn't being a real Christian! A real Christian, tries to reach out, and love others, the way that they want to be loved! They put others ahead of themselves! They put God above everyone else! Yes, I have a reason for sharing this! The Lord is sharing with me, that there is a very bitter angry, hurting person, who reads in these boards, and God only wants to reach out to you, and show you what real love is! You can take this for what it is worth, or make fun of me, and call me crazy if you want, that is all up to you! No, I don't hear an audible voice, telling me to say this, but it is called the gift of knowledge, and it is an awesome responsibility, for me to pass on what I know, to the one who needs to hear it most! It is a scary gift, which I don't take lightly! It is my absolute proof that there is a loving God! Take it, or leave it, it's all up to you!
quote:Originally posted by Kate: What if: God created man, in his own image! Man created religion, God created Christianity! Man wrote the scriptures, inspired by God. satan created homosexuality, and every other sin, written about in God's Word. God created right, and satan created wrong.God created light; satan created darkness!
If you are a Christian, and you believe this way, you know beyond a shadow of a doubt, what is right and wrong, because the Holy Spirit dwells within, and TELLS you what is right! It is up to you, whether you listen to satans lies or not, and whether you act upon them, and do what is wrong! It is called Free will! If you are living for yourself, you listen to the lies! If you are living for others, you won't listen to them! It's as complicated, or as simple as that! Many people are turned against Christians, simply because someone they looked up to in their past, used religion as an excuse to do what they wanted, and caused pain in the lives of others because of it! That isn't being a real Christian! A real Christian, tries to reach out, and love others, the way that they want to be loved! They put others ahead of themselves! They put God above everyone else! Yes, I have a reason for sharing this! The Lord is sharing with me, that there is a very bitter angry, hurting person, who reads in these boards, and God only wants to reach out to you, and show you what real love is! You can take this for what it is worth, or make fun of me, and call me crazy if you want, that is all up to you! No, I don't hear an audible voice, telling me to say this, but it is called the gift of knowledge, and it is an awesome responsibility, for me to pass on what I know, to the one who needs to hear it most! It is a scary gift, which I don't take lightly! It is my absolute proof that there is a loving God! Take it, or leave it, it's all up to you!
the devil is in you as well...that can not be overlooked.
posted
satan is around me, but not IN me! He can influence my thoughts, but he can't dwell within, because there is only room for one, and that is the Holy Spirit. If I wasn't a Christian, satan would be able to enter, but, Greater is He that is in me, than he that is in the world!
Posts: 622 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
you keep yourself at bay. You have the ability to do wrong, you just choose not to. You can not doubt you have the capacity to do wrong, it is in us all.
Posts: 1153 | From: northeast | Registered: Apr 2004
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satan created homosexuality, and every other sin, written about in God's Word. God created right, and satan created wrong.God created light; satan created darkness! ---------------------------
Supposedly, god created ALL things. That would INCLUDE Satan, homosexuality, sin, wrong and darkness. If not, who created Satan so he could create at all, let alone create homosexuality, sin, wrong and darkness. Supposedly and according to your "word of god", nothing (other than god) could/can create!!! Something is wrong with the logic about your god's omnipotence.
It is easily understood why some become avid members of cults.
[This message has been edited by Wallace#1 (edited October 22, 2004).]
posted
If you read the scriptures, God created satan! He was a beautiful angel, named Lucifer! Lucifer decided he didn't need God, and was better than He was, so he rebelled, and got thrown out of heaven! It has nothing to do with a cult Wallace! A true Christian, tries to love others, and not cause pain! We are all born sinners, but when we become a Christian, we have a choice, whether to follow God, or satan! It doesn't mean we never make mistakes, it means when we make them, we try to do better next time, and not repeat it!
Posts: 622 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Kate wrote: If you read the scriptures, God created satan! He was a beautiful angel, named Lucifer! Lucifer decided he didn't need God, and was better than He was, so he rebelled, and got thrown out of heaven! -----------------------------------------
So, god is not so perfect after all? He created something that was evil or turned out evil? Where is the perfection in that?And, since he created ALL things, he DID create homosexuality, sin, wrong darkness, etc. Now don't give me the "choice" bit either.
I see MAN's hand in everything said to be god's, in his so-called word and in religion. There has been more harm done in the name of god and religion than anything else. That is FACT!!!
Then, there is the need of MAN to control...one another as well as the populace. No better way than with religion which promotes weakness rather than strength. Faith rather than logic.
posted
Wallace, God gave the angels a choice too! Lucifer decided to go against God! And yes, he does cause people to do the sinning! God only allows it, because he won't force us to accept him! He gave Adam and Eve a choice, and they chose to listen to satan, and sin! They could of lived in Paradise, for ever! He loves us enough, to; give us a choice! He loves the angels also, and gave them a choice! That is why he allows sin, he doesn't cause it! satan is darkness, and sin! God is light! Do you know what darkness is? It is nothing! It is an absence of light! It is an absence of God!
Posts: 622 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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the mere fact that we have the word PERFECTION.... we have no model for it, it does not exist except in concept, and i attribute it's existence in our minds, even though it's only a concept , to the CREATOR
unfortunately, i don't see much else, but we are getting better, like the markets, we have retracements and recessions....
posted
Well, Kate, there you go with that "choice" bit.
Well, here's more. Some believe a guy named Jesus was of virgin birth. Sure!! That's how Mary got pregnant.
Some believe Jesus walked on water. Sure, when everyone else on earth then and now sink into water.
Some believe Jesus fed a multitude with just a few fish and a few loaves of bread. Sure, providing multitude in those days meant about 2 people.
Some believe Jonah was swallowed by a whale. Sure, and he lived to tell about it???
Some believe a guy to have lived over 400 years. Sure, and he wasn't even a turtle.
Some believe Noah built a huge ark and collected all the world's animals and kept them for 40 days and 40 nights? Sure, and how many did the lions, tigers, cheetahs and other carnivorous animals devour during that time, and, how many of the specialty foods was he able to bring such as what the Koloa (sp) bear eats. How many animals did he get from the Americas...which he must have discovered?
Some believe god turned a woman into a pillar of salt because she turned to look at Sodom and Gamorra (sp). Sure, and he forgot the pepper.
Shall I go on with fairy tales?
I just wonder how many of those people were smoking hashish back in those days.
How many throughout the world were burned at the stake in the name of Christianity? Those that did the deeds and those that encouraged the deeds claimed to have been Christians too.
Come on, give me a break!!! Give me something real and logical to believe in.
God is the accumulated result of man's weaknesses, fears and ignorance ... passed down from time immemorial. It is as simple as that.
The good thing is that MAN decided right from wrong and in some way put it down in writing and, for some, in actions. Now, we supposedly have laws and mores that define a good deal of right from wrong...however poorly they may be observed or administered.
I don't give a goddamn what religion a person may be as long they act in a humane manner and do not try to force or even press their religious beliefs upon others. That is one thing the "word of god" (in reality, MAN) should have put into the 11 Commandments.
[This message has been edited by Wallace#1 (edited October 22, 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by Kate: satan is around me, but not IN me! He can influence my thoughts, but he can't dwell within, because there is only room for one, and that is the Holy Spirit. If I wasn't a Christian, satan would be able to enter, but, Greater is He that is in me, than he that is in the world!
Kate, this is the same stuff Bush seems to be thinking too.... you guys are pretty scary....
Pat Robertson knows we are all sinners and has asked Bush to admit to his mistakes, this holy spirit leaving no room for amything else is not in the bible, i don't know where you all are getting it from.....
posted
Kate, you stated we are "all born sinners".
When I was born, I was as pure as the driven snow. Any such thing as sin had to have come later, unless the sin was carried by sperm to the egg...osmosis. Being innocent is not a sin as far as I know.
Yes, I know the concept behind your statement that we are all born sinners, and I don't buy it in the least. Guilty when born? BULL! Surprised some holy rollers haven't found a way to douse an embyro with water yet!!!!
[This message has been edited by Wallace#1 (edited October 22, 2004).]
posted
Wallace, I didn't say were were born sinning, you are right, we are white at snow, until we become of the age of accountability! That is the age, when we are old enough, to know right from wrong! I said, we are born sinners!I am using that word as a noun! That means, we are capable of sin! Only Jesus, was without sin, his entire life! We are without sin, until we grow to accountability, then also, after we accept Jesus as Savior, then our sins are wiped away! It does'nt mean we don't sin, we just try not to sin, and learn from our mistakes, and try to do better.It means, we are forgiven of those sins! Glass, the scripture says, in John 16, before Jesus ascended into heaven, Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father,and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear; that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. And in John 17, when Jesus was talking to the disciples, he said, I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified IN them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one as we are. Verse 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanactify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou has sent into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE IN US: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I IN them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, ans thou hast loved me.
1 John 4 says, And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Glass, God is not going to dwell in the same vessel that satan is, so therefore, if the Holy Spirit dwells within, satan is not there! He is prowling around, trying to keep those who love the Lord, from doing his will, by affecting our thoughts, and using those who don't know him, to influence us! It is called oppression, when we are Christians, possession, when we are not! It is a scary thing! It is called a battle with the principalities, which if you trust in the Lord, like it says in my favorite Psalm 91, he will help you, and care for you!
posted
but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment
here is the part you guys are not heeding Kate....and guess what?
this IN MY OPINION is probably the MOST important part... righteousness and judgement are in OVERABUNDANCE.....
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. not much TRUTH coming out of the White House.......this is one of the SIGNS of annointment to look for...
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 23, 2004).]
posted
That is exactly the part I am heeding Glass, by doing what I believe He is asking me to do! He reaches those who sin, and are judged, by reaching them through us, with his love!
Posts: 622 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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