quote:If we start valuing carbon and force a coal plant to go carbon-free via sequestration then we're at or over 10 cents per kilowatt-hour from coal," Mancini says. "Any of these technologies can get to that same 10 cents level with [molten salt] storage. Then the market will make the call."
So, instead of having an electric bill of $250 during the winter, the working people of this country are expected to pony up $581 per month for the same amount of electricity. Not to worry, I'm sure all those soon to be fired GM employees have plenty of money to pay more than double for electricity!
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quote:If we start valuing carbon and force a coal plant to go carbon-free via sequestration then we're at or over 10 cents per kilowatt-hour from coal," Mancini says. "Any of these technologies can get to that same 10 cents level with [molten salt] storage. Then the market will make the call."
So, instead of having an electric bill of $250 during the winter, the working people of this country are expected to pony up $581 per month for the same amount of electricity. Not to worry, I'm sure all those soon to be fired GM employees have plenty of money to pay more than double for electricity!
PM. look up your cost perKWh and see what you are paying now...
i've already been paying 12 cents for my shop. my provider uses coal, nat gas and nukes in some combination that they keep secret from us so they can rip us off, which they do...
the house is a little cheaper.
he average cost of residential electricity was 11¢/kWh (DOE) in the U.S. in April 2008. The average household used 920 kWh/mo. in 2006 (DOE) and would pay $101.2 for it based on the April 2008 average rate.
The cost of electricity varies by region. In 2008 the price ranged from 6.7¢ in Idaho to 30¢ in Hawaii. The map shows average rates in 2003, and here's 2008 data in table form. (Your cost may differ, and I don't need to know if it does.)
posted
coal is only cheaper until the levee breaks...
TVA's initial estimate for the spill was 1.8 million cubic yards or more than 360 million gallons of sludge. By Friday, the estimate reached 5.4 million cubic yards or more than 1 billion gallons --
and this happened before too:
Appalachian environmentalists compare the mess to another spill eight years ago in eastern Kentucky, where the bottom of a coal sludge impoundment owned by Massey Energy broke into an abandoned underground mine, oozing more than 300 million gallons of coal waste into tributaries.
and when the levee breaks we have no place to stay...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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These are the cost per kwh that we are comparing. I used 1753 kwh, which is 4.3 cents per kwh.
My bill even says that to compare a new supplier to my current supplier (AEP), 'they must offer a price less than 4.3 cents per kwh for the same usage that appears on this bill'.
Now, in addition to the expenses listed above, there is also distribution $50.96, a customer charge $4.75, and a transition charge $5.23.
These would be added to the $10 cents per kwh that the solar would cost, just as they are added to the 4.3 cents per kwh that the coal powered electric costs.
Even if you add in all the distribution and other misc charges with AEP, that still only totals 7.7 cents per kwh. Even if you pretend these charges won't exist with the solar (they will), the solar is still $75 more per month. If you add all the costs, then you're at 13.4 cents per kwh, which would mean a $250 bill at AEP would become $435 with solar power.
No matter how you slice it, solar is substantially more expensive.
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Whats up with the TN valley authority these days? That whole coal sludge spill doesnt get talked about by even MSNBC
i dunno, i'm on Entergy, the mess is much worse than they first announced.. the bill will go to the consumers and it's going to be high...
this is the real problem with "dirty" fuels... we get away without paying the true costs, but sooner or later? somebody has to pay them one way or another.. and even "green fuels" can be dirty in ways we don't expect...
all those coal ash ponds around the country just keep filling up.... it's not a problem that will go away on it's own.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
You guys are missing the most important point.
The whole world will eventually have to convert from fossil fuel generated power. If we invest NOW in the research and development (though we dilly-dallied around and let the Spanish and the Australians and the Arabs and several others get off to a head start), given our industrial might and capabilities, we can employ our masses providing the technology and the raw machinery of the green energy that is to come. If we set around playing the stupid political party line crap we get from the likes of PM and his sort, we will end up having them sell it to our unemployed masses.
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: Here are the numbers right off the bill:
Generation: $59.66 Transmission: $15.56
These are the cost per kwh that we are comparing. I used 1753 kwh, which is 4.3 cents per kwh.
My bill even says that to compare a new supplier to my current supplier (AEP), 'they must offer a price less than 4.3 cents per kwh for the same usage that appears on this bill'.
Now, in addition to the expenses listed above, there is also distribution $50.96, a customer charge $4.75, and a transition charge $5.23.
These would be added to the $10 cents per kwh that the solar would cost, just as they are added to the 4.3 cents per kwh that the coal powered electric costs.
Even if you add in all the distribution and other misc charges with AEP, that still only totals 7.7 cents per kwh. Even if you pretend these charges won't exist with the solar (they will), the solar is still $75 more per month. If you add all the costs, then you're at 13.4 cents per kwh, which would mean a $250 bill at AEP would become $435 with solar power.
No matter how you slice it, solar is substantially more expensive.
have you ever wondered what the difference is between transmission and distribution?
what they also don't tell you is that they have to produce alot more elctricity to "push" it thru the lines than you use...
solar that's spread out (not at a single remote location) reduces that cost to "push" the juice by a considerable amount.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: You guys are missing the most important point.
The whole world will eventually have to convert from fossil fuel generated power. If we invest NOW in the research and development (though we dilly-dallied around and let the Spanish and the Australians and the Arabs and several others get off to a head start), given our industrial might and capabilities, we can employ our masses providing the technology and the raw machinery of the green energy that is to come. If we set around playing the stupid political party line crap we get from the likes of PM and his sort, we will end up having them sell it to our unemployed masses.
that's true too.. and as we have already seen? the energy traders like to play games with supply and demand.. more supply would push energy prices down overall.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
"have you ever wondered what the difference is between transmission and distribution?
what they also don't tell you is that they have to produce alot more elctricity to "push" it thru the lines than you use...
solar that's spread out (not at a single remote location) reduces that cost to "push" the juice by a considerable amount."
YES!!!
Works with wind and thermal and tidal and so on, too. Of course, that part isn't going to be hinted at by the big power companies....might further development of self contained systems for individuals and one day leave them out in the cold with no discernable purpose or value..
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