posted
Turn it on if you are around. Have a feeling this is gonna be bad.
Can you say violent culture clash?
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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Fell in love with a Sunni boy when she was of a different religion.
They say many men in the neighborhood took part in the honor killing and many more (including security forces) stood by and watched.
How do you relate with a culture where this is seen a permissible???
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posted
I stick by my previous statements regarding policy and such when it comes to the middle east, but when they play stories like this I understand the reactionary "kill em all, let god sort it out" feelings of hate.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Yep. Stoning was common in biblical times for prostitution and such, specially in the old testament.
New testament is where you get Jesus saying "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
You know that if they were throwing rocks at a puppy PETA would be all over them, the courts would already be involved and it would probably make bigger headlines. It's a sad, sad, sick little world we live in...some people.
-------------------- If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy? Posts: 2647 | From: MN | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Here is the story as first reported by the Daily Mail in London on May 3rd.
quote: The moment a teenage girl was stoned to death for loving the wrong boy Last updated at 18:28pm on 3rd May 2007
A 17-year-old girl has been stoned to death in Iraq because she loved a teenage boy of the wrong religion.
As a horrifying video of the stoning went out on the Internet, the British arm of Amnesty International condemned the death of Du’a Khalil Aswad as "an abhorrent murder" and demanded that her killers be brought to justice.
Reports from Iraq said a local security force witnessed the incident, but did nothing to try to stop it. Now her boyfriend is in hiding in fear for his life.
Miss Aswad, a member of a minority Kurdish religious group called Yezidi, was condemned to death as an "honour killing" by other men in her family and hardline religious leaders because of her relationship with the Sunni Muslim boy.
The teenager was dragged outside by 8 or 9 men and stoned for half an hour until she died. Her boyfriend is now in hiding in fear for his life
They said she had shamed herself and her family when she failed to return home one night. Some reports suggested she had converted to Islam to be closer to her boyfriend.
Miss Aswad had taken shelter in the house of a Yezidi tribal leader in Bashika, a predominantly Kurdish town near the northern capital, Mosul.
A large crowd watched as eight or nine men stormed the house and dragged Miss Aswad into the street. There they hurled stones at her for half an hour until she was dead.
The stoning happened last month, but only came to light yesterday with the release of the Internet video.
It is feared her death has already triggered a retaliatory attack. Last week 23 Yezidi workmen were forced off a bus travelling from Mosulto Bashika by a group of Sunni gunmen and summarily shot dead.
An Amnesty International spokesman in London said they receive frequent reports of honour crimes from Iraq – particularly in the predominantly Kurdish north.
Most victims are women and girls who are considered by male relatives to have shamed their families by immoral behaviour.
Kurdish authorities have introduced reforms outlawing honour killings, but have failed to investigate them or prosecute suspects, added the Amnesty spokesman.
Kate Allen, the organisation’s UK director, said: "This young girl’s murder is truly abhorrent and her killers must be brought to justice.
"Unless the authorities respond vigorously to this and any other reports of crimes in the name of 'honour', we must fear for the future of women in Iraq."
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Another story from the Daily Mail with more info released today.
quote: The girl who was stoned to death for falling in love by NATALIE CLARKE - » Last updated at 00:52am on 17th May 2007
A teenage girl lies dead on the ground in a pool of her own blood.
Her once groomed hair is cast across her face like a rag doll's, her skirt pulled up to complete her humiliation.
In another image, she is seen lying on her side, her face battered and bloodied, barely recognizable.
The concrete block used to smash in her face lies next to her.
Du'a Khalil Aswad was beaten, kicked and stoned for 30 minutes at the hands of a lynch mob before one of her attackers launched a carefully aimed fatal blow.
Du'a Khalil Aswad: Killed by a lynch mob for falling in love
The murder was carried out in public, watched by hundreds of men cheering and yelling. Du'a's crime? To fall in love with a Sunni boy. Her family practiced the Yezidi religion.
The Sunnis and Yezidis hate each other. When Du'a ran away with her Sunni boyfriend, a sentence of death was passed on her.
This act of medieval savagery took place last month in a town in northern Iraq, in the fledgling 'democracy' created by Bush and Blair when they invaded the country in 2003 and 'freed' its people.
The sickening scenes, which defy belief in every sense, were captured by some of the observers and participants who thought it would be proper to record these harrowing events as some sort of memento.
Perhaps they thought it would serve as a warning to other young people who dared to follow their hearts - not the strictures of a religion which will not brook dissent - and punishes adolescent impetuosity with the most brutal of public murders.
The killing was filmed on a number of mobile phones. The images were then - all too predictably - posted on the internet.
The Mail takes no pleasure in publishing these pictures. But we believe our readers should witness the depths of the depravity still being carried out in the 21st century in the name of 'honour'.
Perhaps, then, something can be done to prevent it happening again.
Of course, anyone who takes even a passing interest in news is all too aware of the tragedy that has engulfed the people of Iraq: the daily bombings, murders and kidnappings.
The subjugation of its women, however, has been largely ignored. Yet according to cultural observers, the number of so-called 'honour killings' has increased in Iraq since the fall of Saddam Hussein.
Campaigners say there is an 'epidemic' of such killings in the wartorn country. Autopsy reports in Baghdad often conclude with the verdict: "Killed to wash away her disgrace."
The filming of Du'a's death was just one more macabre element of her killing, but it has achieved something those bloodthirsty amateur filmmakers could not have predicted: it has brought such practices into the open and exposed them to the wider world.
It is, of course, too late for Du'a, a strikingly pretty young girl with long auburn hair. The 17-year-old must have hoped that the 'liberation' of her country would afford her opportunities she might otherwise never have had - for her education and a life of happiness free from oppression.
She lived with her family in the town of Bashika, near Mosul. They were neither rich nor poor.
It is believed Du'a met her Sunni boyfriend - whose name is not known - several months ago. They had grown up in an environment where hatred against rival factions is the norm.
The Yezidis - a Gnostic sect which combines Islamic teachings with Persian religions - despise the Sunnis; the Sunnis loathe the Yezidis.
Du'a and her boyfriend would have been all too aware that theirs was a forbidden love. But like so many teenagers before them, right back to the illicit love of Romeo and Juliet, they couldn't help themselves.
For a while, they met in secret. It was during one such highly charged meeting that they came up with a plan to run away together.
It is not clear whether this desperate measure was a result of their having sought and been refused permission to marry, or if they decided to do it knowing that such permission would never be obtained.
"Her family would never have agreed to such a marriage," says Diana Nammi, a leading Kurdish women's rights campaigner.
Some Muslim groups have claimed that Du'a converted to Islam shortly before her murder. According to other reports, her boyfriend denies this.
They ran away together to an address in Bashika. The girl's family alerted the police and Du'a and her boyfriend were found just a few days later.
According to Ms Nammi, who is calling for the girl's killers to be brought to justice, Du'a was arrested and put into prison.
A few days later, the police apparently received assurances from the leader of her tribe - who Ms Nammi believes is Du'a's uncle - that the girl would not be harmed.
What happened next is the subject of conflicting reports. According to some, the house of the tribal leader was stormed by a mob and Du'a dragged out and killed.
Ms Nammi, however, says she has information that it was the tribal leader who betrayed his niece to the mob. In this man's eyes, Du'a had committed an unforgiveable crime, punishable by death.
The family's 'honour' had been besmirched. The moment Du'a was placed in his house, her fate was sealed.
On April 7, Du'a was brought out of the house in a headlock to face the lynch mob. Hundreds of men were waiting for her - the excited atmosphere is said to have resembled a large sporting event - but no women.
On the video, Du'a's screams can be heard as she is dragged to the ground. In a further humiliation, her lower body has been stripped.
Instinctively, Du'a tries to cover herself; only later was a piece of clothing thrown over her.
She is surrounded by an enormous crowd jockeying for a good view of the ritualistic killing. About nine men take part in the attack, including, it is thought, members of the girl's family.
To any father of a daughter, that a helpless girl should be set upon with such cowardly savagery is beyond comprehension. One can barely imagine her terror.
It is a profoundly disturbing spectacle. One man kicks her hard between the legs as she screams in agony. Du'a tries to lift herself up, but someone hurls a concrete block into her face.
Another man stamps on her face. Someone kicks her in the stomach. Police officers stand idly by, some of them apparently enjoying the spectacle as much as anyone else.
Meanwhile, some observers film the execution on their mobile phones - the modern world intruding on a spectacle that belongs more in the Roman arena than in an apparently civilised society.
After half an hour of this savagery, Du'a is finally - mercifully, perhaps - dead. In a final humiliation, a man tries to lift her up, but drops her again, and her bloodied body is rolled face down into a puddle of blood. The family has had its 'honour' restored.
According to Ms Nammi, Du'a's parents did not want her to be stoned, though it is not clear whether they might have agreed for her to be killed in some other way.
After her murder, according to Ms Nammi, two men were arrested by Iraqi police, but she has heard they were subsequently released without charge.
Reports suggest that two of Du'a's uncles and four other people fled the town as investigators began to search for the culprits. It is thought these included her brother, who appeared in the video of the murder.
As for Du'a's boyfriend - who has lost the girl he loved in the most awful circumstances imaginable - he went into hiding for a while, but it is believed that no action has been taken against him.
Du'a was buried in a simple unmarked grave. Later, says Ms Nammi, her body was exhumed by the Kurdish authorities, who have autonomous control of the region, and sent to the Medico-legal Institute in Mosul.
There her body was examined to find out whether she had been a virgin or not, before being returned to the Sheikh Shams cemetery.
To our Western eyes, this posthumous assault on Du'a's body is the final insult. But according to Ms Nammi, it did at least establish that she was still a virgin and innocent of the 'crime' of which she had been accused.
However, Ms Nammi believes the mere fact that Du'a had run off with a Sunni boy would have been enough to have her sentenced to death.
Meanwhile, the cycle of tit-for-tat murders continues in Iraq. In this instance, in an apparent act of retaliation for Du'a's murder, 23 Yezidi workers were attacked and killed two weeks later, apparently by members of an armed Sunni group.
The men were travelling on a bus between Mosul and Bashika when their vehicle was halted by the gunmen, who made them disembark before killing them.
Tomorrow evening, Ms Nammi, founding member of the Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation, will lead a group of women meeting in Shoreditch, East London, to remember Du'a Khalil Aswad and give back to her the dignity torn from her by her violent death.
The women are pledged to campaign against the entrenched beliefs which lead to such senseless deaths - and the fact that the people who commit these crimes are not regarded as murderers, but as heroes of the community.
According to Ms Nammi, there have been an estimated 10,000 cases of honour killings in the Kurdistan region in the past decade.
Under Iraqi law, the punishment for anyone found guilty of an honour killing is just six months in prison.
"Something has to be done to stop this," says Ms Nammi, who came to Britain in 1996. "There is an epidemic of so-called honour killings. It is almost routine and utterly unacceptable.
"We would greatly appreciate any contribution from the British Government in preventing these murders of women in Iraq."
Ms Nammi has the support of Amnesty International.
"This young girl's murder is truly abhorrent and her killers must be brought to justice," says Kate Allen, Amnesty International UK Director.
"Unless the authorities respond vigorously to this and other reports of crimes in the name of "honour", we must fear for the future of the women in Iraq."
For the sake of 17-year-old Du'a, an innocent girl who simply fell in love with the wrong man, it is all too little, too late.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by cottonjim: You know that if they were throwing rocks at a puppy PETA would be all over them, the courts would already be involved and it would probably make bigger headlines. It's a sad, sad, sick little world we live in...some people.
cj. be reasonable!
You imply that PETA is what you types like to call tree huggers and liberals (and love to attack with false and misleading claims, like this) and isn't interested or unconcerned with mistreatement of humans (or at least those humans you approve of).
That ATTITUDE IS a bit assinine and presents a horrible implication which is purely a mistatement of fact .
PETA AN NO OTHER OF OUR INSTITUTIONS, AGENCIES, OR WHATEVER HAVE THE POWER OR THE RIGHT TO BE " all over them" AND OUR COURTS may not "be involved", for christ sake!
If any of our institutions or agencies or whatever that is sanctioned by our government (PETA, as a tax exempt entity is so sanctioned) attempted to become involved in this matter, as you suggest they should, we might better insist that someone be "all over them" and that our "courts would already be involved" and would put an immediate stop to it. (When did we stop recignizing the right of another people to have its own customs and laws that do not stem from ours or our sensabilities?)
Indeed, "some people".
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I agree that it is important to respect other cultures. It is galling though when it goes to extreme examples like this which are (according to the books) illegal even for them.
I think if I were running our country I'd announce an immediate and indefinite policy of asylum for any woman who comes to the embassy looking to get away from any society that is deemed anti-womens rights.
LOL How's that for foreign policy?! I want to work with you to better your country...but first I have a thousand of your women to transport overseas...
Still, this is a very disturbing story and I do hope there is some real fall out for such a horrible murder.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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You imply that PETA is what you types like to call tree huggers and liberals (and love to attack with false and misleading claims, like this) and isn't interested or unconcerned with mistreatement of humans (or at least those humans you approve of).
[/QB][/QUOTE]
There you go putting people into your little, labled, boxes again. For you to imply, neigh, accuse "my type" of people of saying that PETA is nothing more than "tree huggers" and "liberals" is rediculous. I never said I dis-approved of what PETA does, my feelings are quite to the contrary. Now that is not to say that I approve of everything that they do. It also appears to me that in some, not most or all, cases they ARE more concerned with animals rights over human rights.I do think that sometimes hteir priorities are a bit skwed. Furthermore, when it comes to the principal of my statement, you have to know I am right and your just looking for a healthy debate.... no, a fight. Look at your words and the way you use them.
-------------------- If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy? Posts: 2647 | From: MN | Registered: Feb 2006
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...sickening .... but it behooves us to keep both our arrogant hands out of the stew and our arrogant eagerness to condemn and interfere in check. We have already brought on enough ill will in the world's politics with knee jerk interference to keep the world in a mess for severaal generations.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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While this story is tragic I do believe its up to THEIR women and men to go through the liberating process of their women ALONE. Just like the women over here had to do. It wasnt easy, and yes some lost their lives. But in the end, the women of America got were they are today.....almost equal...."sniker"
There is no recipe for this process, it has to be done through Protest, vigilance, perseverance, and a bunch of other words I dont care to spellcheck. It has to constantly be tweaked to adapt to new challenges.
and it has to take place in MOST Iraqi homes.
I think the women should just stop given-it-up. Yes some will be hurt maybe even killed. But in the long run the men are gonna have to answer to "PETER"
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Posts: 4005 | From: Shaolin | Registered: Oct 2005
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You imply that PETA is what you types like to call tree huggers and liberals (and love to attack with false and misleading claims, like this) and isn't interested or unconcerned with mistreatement of humans (or at least those humans you approve of).
[/QUOTE]
There you go putting people into your little, labled, boxes again. For you to imply, neigh, accuse "my type" of people of saying that PETA is nothing more than "tree huggers" and "liberals" is rediculous. I never said I dis-approved of what PETA does, my feelings are quite to the contrary. Now that is not to say that I approve of everything that they do. It also appears to me that in some, not most or all, cases they ARE more concerned with animals rights over human rights.I do think that sometimes hteir priorities are a bit skwed. Furthermore, when it comes to the principal of my statement, you have to know I am right and your just looking for a healthy debate.... no, a fight. Look at your words and the way you use them. [/QB][/QUOTE]
I believe it was you that was doing the labeling.
I do not have any desire to "debate" with you, but I do feel imposed to correct your constant labeling and mistatements about any and everything not far rightwing staandard issue dogma, particularly when you are pumping that satandard issue dogma with misrepresentation and suggesting those in absurd and illegal settings.
There is no parallel for PETA or any other western institution in that strange to us Moslem world and announcing that there is or should be one is not reasonable.
What you were doiing was labeling.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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UMMMM, I know you are but what am I, LMAO. It's like having a conversation with a well versed 4th grader. bdgee, I DIDN'T LABEL ANYBODY. You don't label anybody either, they peel off when wet, you seem to prefer red iron, because a brand never washes off.
-------------------- If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy? Posts: 2647 | From: MN | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
This is NOT about the option of people having their own cultures. This is evil, pure and simple..Calling it by any other name is absurd. Anyone whatever their culture that condones cold blooded murder and that is what this is, a cold barbaric killing, needs to be stopped. It it was happening to anyone we cared or loved, it would be seen through a defferent set of lenses.
Posts: 741 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ruthie: This is NOT about the option of people having their own cultures. This is evil, pure and simple..
According to YOUR religion...according to their religion what the girl did was evil....
What dont you understand? This is how they carry out their death penalty. Should we give them an ample supply of gurnies with straps and windex filled syringes...to be more humane about it?
They gotta figure it out themselves
What about the female circumcision happening in Africa(so-called female genital mutilation)?
And the list goessssss oooooooooooon
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Posts: 4005 | From: Shaolin | Registered: Oct 2005
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Oh Ruthie, that is just your opinion, most likely engrained in your thinking by the RNC. A party that is more concerned with self preservation than it is with human rights. That thinking is only because we are selfish American pigs raised by T.V. and who follow the likes of "Fat Rush the doper" and the "decider". The sooner everyone realizes this, the safer the world will be. Entire populations can go ahead and be wiped out because of their beliefs, thereby making room for the people that are in the right.
-------------------- If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy? Posts: 2647 | From: MN | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ruthie: This is NOT about the option of people having their own cultures. This is evil, pure and simple..Calling it by any other name is absurd. Anyone whatever their culture that condones cold blooded murder and that is what this is, a cold barbaric killing, needs to be stopped. It it was happening to anyone we cared or loved, it would be seen through a defferent set of lenses.
Ruthie, this is happening to women who are (supposedly) loved by their family and it is being done by their family...
often it is the eldest (or alapha) brother that leads the mob...
They said she had shamed herself and her family when she failed to return home one night. Some reports suggested she had converted to Islam to be closer to her boyfriend
this part here was actually predicted by Dubya's father: The subjugation of its women, however, has been largely ignored. Yet according to cultural observers, the number of so-called 'honour killings' has increased in Iraq since the fall of Saddam Hussein.
the mideast has a culture that has also taken male slaves and castrated them to be guards and servants for their multiple wives... and there are two levels of castration..... you don't want the details...
female circumcision is widespread... and that is criminal IMO too..
these are not Islamic principles (as noted in the article? it was Kurds, not Muslims) they are cultural practices...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Yea...we should of let Hitler alone to "do his culture thing" against the Jews too...
I didnt know you were a bigot?
We did the right thing. If you read some of my posts you will see that I believe we do have to intervene "sometimes". You know, the occasional genocide, ethnic cleansing and any other mass murders that our military would be able to decisively quell. These other situations have to be handled by locals...government, police...and a fresh crop of conscience
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Posts: 4005 | From: Shaolin | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bond006: This is sick it shows the evils of a society whos brain is stuck in fundamental theocracy.
The same thing could happen hear if the relgious right had there way and mixed religon and government.
If you think not give it a try for a hunderd years and watch the slaughter begin.
the founding fathers understood this bond, thats why they wrote the constitution the way they did, and the Evangelical "Universities" have set up law schools to re-interpret and even create a new form of constitutional interpretation in order to UNDO the work of the founding fathers...
a lot of people know about the Salem Witch Trials and think of it as an abberration, what they may not know is that Cotton Mather was graduate of Harvard, and had a Phd...
the founding fathers had this (and other similar less well-known cases) to look at as well as the domination of the Chrurch in the politics of Europe...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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I'm not bigot Rim...it was meant to be sarcastic...
My question to you is "where do we draw the line"?
quote:Originally posted by rimasco:
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Yea...we should of let Hitler alone to "do his culture thing" against the Jews too...
I didnt know you were a bigot?
We did the right thing. If you read some of my posts you will see that I believe we do have to intervene "sometimes". You know, the occasional genocide, ethnic cleansing and any other mass murders that our military would be able to decisively quell. These other situations have to be handled by locals...government, police...and a fresh crop of conscience
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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Im not sure where the lines could be drawn but in my last post I eluded to some
"You know, the occasional genocide, ethnic cleansing and any other mass murders that our military would be able to decisively quell. These other situations have to be handled by locals...government, police...and a fresh crop of conscience"
Things that may destabilize the global economy....we gotta get out of the police the world business, and go back to our super-hero status....CAPT KAAAOOOOS
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Posts: 4005 | From: Shaolin | Registered: Oct 2005
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The persecution of the Jews by the German military and a family killing thier daughter over honor are two different things.
I think it is terrible to take a life that way. I also think it is terrible that the life was taken in the name of religion. I think the saddest thing of it is that the autopsy proved the girl was still a virgin and thereby had not "dishonored" herself or her family.
I think that whole region has a whole lot of growing up to do. But how many times do we need to be provided examples that we can not force people to change the way they think and act just because we want them to? You can lead a horse to water...
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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I think if I were running our country I'd announce an immediate and indefinite policy of asylum for any woman who comes to the embassy looking to get away from any society that is deemed anti-womens rights.
......
I have spent countless hours thinking about this very sort of thing but on a bigger scale, and not specific to anti-womens rights but rather human rights in general.
While in some extreme cases, force must be used to attain human rights, most often this is not the case, and providing an escape from tyranny and injustice is both beneficial to America and also one of our best traditions. However, bringing everyone who wants amnesty straight into the country is probably not a good idea either.
The solution I propose is a "Floating Ellis Island" or rather dozens of them, something along the lines of "Freedom Ships".
They could float offshore of trouble spots, in International Waters, and would be protected by the US Military and serve as a temporary city in which these refugees can live.
The ships could be set up with Hospital facilities to treat the sick and with Education facilities to teach. This will provide a temporary refugee camp until whatever issue is creating refugees is resolved, and can serve as a route, for those who wish, to leave their country and immigrate to America.
Time on the ship could be used to learn English, gain basic work skills, and will allow the necessary screening to occur before any refugees are allowed to move to the mainland (USA), after completing the requirements for citizenship.
IMO, this would work far better and probably cost less than invading every country in a misguided attempt to spread freedom, and would be safer and more manageable than just bringing every refugee from every trouble spot straight to the US.
IMO this provides a way to be pro-active towards the cause of freedom and human rights, while avoiding all the pitfalls that come with military "liberation".
I am sure I've left some things out and there are probably problems with this solution that I haven't thought about, but that is basically the general idea.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example. Posts: 2430 | From: CA | Registered: Jun 2005
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I hate to make light of this situation...but...INDIA WANTS TO THROUGH RICHARD GERE IN JAIL FOR KISSING A WOMEN ON THE NECK IN PUBLIC!
Do you think there saying in India..."look at all those people in "the state's" kissing in public...if they werent a superpower we'd have a good mind to invade that crazy place and through all these filthy people in jail"
They dont get US we dont get them...certain issues we'll never see eye to eye on
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Posts: 4005 | From: Shaolin | Registered: Oct 2005
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I think that whole region has a whole lot of growing up to do.
i'm not sure that's the correct term...
Iraq is the geographical location of the cradle of western civilization...
Christianity was displaced there over 1000 years ago...
IMO? this is a perfect example of a people that have more wealth than they have earned... oil money is flowing in by an act of Allah... many of them truly believe this...
many see this as a sign that they are righteous...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Sereously.....we need to lie low for a while....and figure out how to throw Canada under the bus....
All this technology is making the world wayyyy to small way to fast....
we need to recognize radio silence for a bit...not answer the phone....ya-know pretend we're not home. See how the other big boys react. I think it would be interesting
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Posts: 4005 | From: Shaolin | Registered: Oct 2005
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change the number to the whitehouse....so when other countries call they get...."do-do-dehhhh the number you have reached is no longer in service"
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Posts: 4005 | From: Shaolin | Registered: Oct 2005
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