posted
I, like the rest of you want this thing to do well. I also don't wanna lose a chunk of money. I'm playing this by the day. I'm at a point where it's not that I don't trust Rufus. I believe he is trying to accomplish something extraordinary. His opponent has more money than God, and it's tough to win a war against big money. I'm still waiting for the assurance that shorts will be forced to cover cuz I just haven't seen it yet. The question is... can Rufus really pull this off?
The releases in the next week better be substantial. Getting 75 million shares back will be difficult.
quote:Originally posted by dog: Oh they do run away from big blocks... kept them from 5k to 30k chunks.. had same result. They did move the ask down every time on attempted sells at current ask. Also dropped ask when placed sell in the gap. When NITE on bid, sells at bid didn't go thru. I tried to see a pattern and this is all I can tell you, but it was very odd. It continues to plague my thoughts. I can't explain it... the market has just not acted "right".
that ain't odd... that's hiding the MM's purchases...
i don't think it's illegal onthe OTCBB.... but i am 99% sure the NYSE would have some people by the ears for it..
People who have a little $$$ have L2's. L2's (I believe) allow a person top see where the pressure is building, you can see alot of sell orders coming in or buy orders stacking up and then you can see which way a stock is headed... Like with Ameritrades "scope" thing they have...
*Now I DON'T use L2's,... So PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.... but..
Couldn't a MM "use your order" against you by making the L2's look like there is a huge line of people who are ready to sell? -thereby driving the price down?
If I wanted to sell and saw the L2's loaded up with BIG sell orders I'd be thinking "Oh chit, I better dump these before this thing really crashes!!"
[--well I wouldn't cause I have my charts, indicators and support and ress. lines.... -but for the sake of this example say that I do, bacause from what I gather here about people who play penny's not many know to use these things, and some even think they don't work!!! HA!]
So, if I were an MM, I'd let this big pile of shares (call it BAIT) sit there to lure others into thinking it's gonna tank, yet I'm also going to nibble on your shares also and take them too over time....
Make sense maybe or do you think I'm way off base with this?....
Because if this isn't the case then just how-in the-h*ll can this happen?!!
See the MM's AREN'T going to let you think they need them, but we KNOW they do....
So is it possible they "used you" to help "show" that "people are selling off" by STACKING the L2's????
Just an idea dog.... -but an idea that would make perfect "cents."
-cause remember RULE #1. "It's ALWAYS about the money!"
posted
anyone got access to the New York Times online? This title just caught my eye:
HIGH & LOW FINANCE Time to Bring Share Lending Into the Light By FLOYD NORRIS Published: September 22, 2006
If the S.E.C. continues to require that shares be borrowed before they can be shorted, then an effort to make the stock loan market more transparent makes sense.
-------------------- 'The rewards for those that persevere, far exceed the pain that must proceed the victory!'
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posted
That would make sense... I'm sure that stacking occurs. They save, manipulate, and drop large buys when they want to try and scare us (149,000 shares a pop). I guarantee that no shareholder got 149,000 shares at once. They save sells, break up buys, all to manipulate our perceptions and adjust the look of L2's. I'm trying to believe this short scenario, but they sure aren't letting on to the pressure.
I had a block of 38,000 shares for sale between the bid and ask. It sat for 20 minutes. Orders were going thru above me and below me the whole time, and my order was in. And it took 2 hours with me chasing the bid every 5 minutes on the way down to sell the whole thing. It's experiences like this that confuse me the most.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: it makes sense from what we think we know...
BUT? we would expect the MM's to be in a little more of a hurry... so, in that way, it doesn't make sense...
Or does it make sense?...
Bottom line is dog has sold alot of shares. And... with "working it" this way investor confidance is way down... -so when they do it again and again investors fall for it and start to sell out.
"If you build it they will come" "?"
Tell me, do you think dog would have sold ANY shares if we were at $1.50 right now and with the price raising everday??? Do you think anyone would?
This may be a very clever way of freeing up shares that are worth much-much more by simply making it look like they DON'T want them.
Let's look at the volume, of the past 5 trading days 4 days in a row it went up, today was the first day that we didn't beat the prior days volume. I'm thinking because of Rufus being on the boards giving people the low down and even giving us a "checklist" of 8k and PR's to look forward to.
If the price was taking off, NO ONE would be selling IMO. So they do the reverse, make it LOOK like nobody cares and people get nervouse cause "this isn't suppose to happen."
This is a very psycological move perhaps by the MM's....
I think if anything we should keep this in the back of our heads and see if perhaps there is something to it, maybe watch and test this theory out.
Then when the hammer is about to fall at the end of the last day, then you'll see a grabbing of shares and a price run if at anytime here IMO.
Not now, or the sellers would dry up and the price would run!!
Just a thought I had guys.... Peace, and enjoy the weekend!
posted
It seems as if they played...and Dog followed... When i was "playing" with IGAI...I honestly played with it...I would put a sell in an all or none...and leave it...I would watch the L2's...orders were going in above mine and below mine..I would "chase" the bid down...and finally it would take...then i did it different...I would place an order...(usually a tick or 2 above the ask...it would sit...transactions actually would come in at my ask...and after a trade or 2...drop back down...never moved my order..left it...at the very end of the day...no matter where the bid was at.."they" jumped up and took it...at 3:59 or 4:01...it would be very last minute...when I would try to buy...at the ask...they would up it...(Dog wasn't it you that "played" with them on this at the begining?)They were gathering shares...it took me a while to "mess around" and figure out their pattern...but i finally figured it out(you can go and check the IGAI thread..I'm pretty sure it's posted)...and this is what they did to Dog on this stock today...they are trying to make us think that they don't want them...Look at Sherri's buy..she said it was filled quickly...but to them..it was a small order...AND? Sherri came right to the message boards and posted that it was filled quickly..."OMG something must be wrong..that went through to quick"..that is what the MM's want us to think
I could be completely wrong...BUT with what we know...is it wrong?
quote:Originally posted by dog: That would make sense... I'm sure that stacking occurs. They save, manipulate, and drop large buys when they want to try and scare us (149,000 shares a pop). I guarantee that no shareholder got 149,000 shares at once. They save sells, break up buys, all to manipulate our perceptions and adjust the look of L2's. I'm trying to believe this short scenario, but they sure aren't letting on to the pressure.
I had a block of 38,000 shares for sale between the bid and ask. It sat for 20 minutes. Orders were going thru above me and below me the whole time, and my order was in. And it took 2 hours with me chasing the bid every 5 minutes on the way down to sell the whole thing. It's experiences like this that confuse me the most.
-------------------- #1 Rule: Protect your capital! #2 Rule: Never fall for the BS on the boards!
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quote:Originally posted by 10of13: It seems as if they played...and Dog followed... When i was "playing" with IGAI...I honestly played with it...I would put a sell in an all or none...and leave it...I would watch the L2's...orders were going in above mine and below mine..I would "chase" the bid down...and finally it would take...then i did it different...I would place an order...(usually a tick or 2 above the ask...it would sit...transactions actually would come in at my ask...and after a trade or 2...drop back down...never moved my order..left it...at the very end of the day...no matter where the bid was at.."they" jumped up and took it...at 3:59 or 4:01...it would be very last minute...when I would try to buy...at the ask...they would up it...(Dog wasn't it you that "played" with them on this at the begining?)They were gathering shares...it took me a while to "mess around" and figure out their pattern...but i finally figured it out(you can go and check the IGAI thread..I'm pretty sure it's posted)...and this is what they did to Dog on this stock today...they are trying to make us think that they don't want them...Look at Sherri's buy..she said it was filled quickly...but to them..it was a small order...AND? Sherri came right to the message boards and posted that it was filled quickly..."OMG something must be wrong..that went through to quick"..that is what the MM's want us to think
I could be completely wrong...BUT with what we know...is it wrong?
quote:Originally posted by dog: That would make sense... I'm sure that stacking occurs. They save, manipulate, and drop large buys when they want to try and scare us (149,000 shares a pop). I guarantee that no shareholder got 149,000 shares at once. They save sells, break up buys, all to manipulate our perceptions and adjust the look of L2's. I'm trying to believe this short scenario, but they sure aren't letting on to the pressure.
I had a block of 38,000 shares for sale between the bid and ask. It sat for 20 minutes. Orders were going thru above me and below me the whole time, and my order was in. And it took 2 hours with me chasing the bid every 5 minutes on the way down to sell the whole thing. It's experiences like this that confuse me the most.
For the last month (at least) this is as much a mind play as anything. I know many on this board know it. If you did not know it before know it now.
They will try to make you believe they do not want or need to cover.
-------------------- - "Pay it Forward"
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posted
Ok, as many of you know, I take a little time to allow events to sink in before posting. The follosing is MY Take, My Opinion Only, sp tkae it for what it's worth. Sorry but it might be a bit long.
In reading and attempting to comprehend the Regs by the SEC, I have come to understand that once the threshold is reached MM's can no longer legally Naked Short a stock. The Reg says that they must first cover before they can continue to NS a stock. Look at the volume for the past Approx 90 days. http://www.**********.com/swnet/utilit/utilit_snapsh_result.aspx
We have had a few days of huge volume but for the most part it's been very low. So, each individual MM has had their day to NS this stock. Look at the NOBO list and you will see that most if not all brokers have had huge FailureToDelevers(FTD's). The MM's took turns. Maybe, just Maybe, we are blaming the wrong people(Brokers). Isn't that the way things usually happen, shift the focus off the real problem, the buck doesn't stop here? I don't think that anyone believes that the MM's are stupid. They have Attorney's whether inhouse or on retainer, they have attorney's. So how do I as a Market Maker get around it? Follow the letter of the Law but not the spirit. The letter of the LAW says STOP shorting. So I do. The spirit says cover the shorts, so I don't. Now at this point I can't legally Naked Short the stock, OK. But I can still trade the stock as long as I locate a seller. How many MM's are on this stock? The answer is 30. http://www.4lfs.com/quotes.asp
They are all following the letter of the LAW because the LAW is ambiguous. Attorney's will drive a hole through it. So what does that mean now?
Lower volume. The only shares that are traded are the real shares. All you have to do is look at the recent volume and it tells the story. Look at the boards and say, SubPenny Radio and you will find that this stock has a bigger following than any other at this time including SLJB which is a play that is garnering interest close to this.
So, What is going on? MM's are playing by the rules NOW. They cannot sell shares they do not own. They are not forced to cover as long as they do not Naked Short the stock. Look at Overstock . Com, they have been in the same situation as CSHD is now. Has their PPS risen? NO!
So what does that mean for us? The MM's will play by the rules, for now, because they don't believe that CSHD has the goods. Keep in mind that nothing they have done so far, under my scenario, is illegal.
The big differance here is the reset. If Rufus truely has the investors ready to support hte new PPS. OH MY GOD is what the MM's wil be saying. The real question is: Does he have enough support?
posted
Please forgive any TYPO's in the above Run on sentance. As you all know and some have come to love, when I drink, I write. So keep that in mind.
PS:
Babe and 10. I need some rest. But thanks you've made my year.
posted
See..babe...I said we should give him a break...he's telling us to leave him alone...Ok Wally...sleep well...and no dreamin'... (I can't promise BB won't stop in, I think she left her garter again)
quote:Originally posted by wallymac: Please forgive any TYPO's in the above Run on sentance. As you all know and some have come to love, when I drink, I write. So keep that in mind.
PS:
Babe and 10. I need some rest. But thanks you've made my year.
GLTA Wally
-------------------- #1 Rule: Protect your capital! #2 Rule: Never fall for the BS on the boards!
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quote:Originally posted by 10of13: See..babe...I said we should give him a break...he's telling us to leave him alone...Ok Wally...sleep well...and no dreamin'... (I can't promise BB won't stop in, I think she left her garter again)
quote:Originally posted by wallymac: Please forgive any TYPO's in the above Run on sentance. As you all know and some have come to love, when I drink, I write. So keep that in mind.
PS:
Babe and 10. I need some rest. But thanks you've made my year.
GLTA Wally
Hey, I'm not complaining about the dreams, They are a finge benefit to investing in this stock and if I lose every penny that I have left it will be money well spent. HeHe.
GLTA Wally PS: It is the weekend, right. Dream on.
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quote:Originally posted by betting babe: glass, i still see the form 144s. form 144 stuff?? what stuff?
oh wallleeeeeee... thats fine, u rest. ull need it
on nasdaqdotcom? it just disappeared... yahoo still has it... somebody else i saw complaining about it disapeared from their broker supplied site too..
posted
interesting post from HSM, that, imo, if true could mean rufus is setting a trap:
Originally Posted by PIERCEIS007 Hello guys/gals,
Been busy with my new contract position over the last three days. It is a deep six figure infusion that quite frankly is not at the top of my list after the pm's that I have received from Rufus. In confidentiality I will not reveal our conversation but I will say that I am going to do something that I have been unwilling to do with this security prior to now which is to go BIG. I have just secured 50k and I will be buying on Monday as much as I can get. For me personally, my questions have been answered in full. Rufus fully intends on making this happen.
Please don't ask the details as I will not answer. You all have seen his transparency on this board and know the plan.
I need advice though on brokers from seasoned investors - I am a amtd holder but obviously am shut down from buying more. What firm would be reccommended to open so that I will have no issues on buying and setting an acceptable gtc order. I am thinking scott but am open to debate if there is iisues with them due to the situation. I will be opening the account tonite and doing the wire in the am if allowed on sat.
Thanks for constructive input. I can't stay here long as I have a full day tomorrow.
Pierce
**edit- this is not a buy or sell reccomendation**
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posted
get it on the cvsu website rright above the DTCC vs NOBO list
quote:Originally posted by glassman: [QUOTE]on nasdaqdotcom? it just disappeared... yahoo still has it... somebody else i saw complaining about it disapeared from their broker supplied site too..
If you are placing All or None orders. don't give it the credence that you are. I have tried this before and have found that once I change the order, it fills very rapidly. I also can tell you that TODAY I placed an order above the ask on 2 different stocks and it took 20 minutes for them to fill. Do MM's manipulate and play games. Oh heck yes. But I think that until they decide they have to cover on CSHD the volume will be low and the movement will follow. Just my take nothing more.
posted
Posted by: stoxman9 In reply to: None Date:9/22/2006 10:59:37 PM Post #of 80943
Can anyone answer this question? I tried an experiment today , at 3:19 this afternoon I tried to place a sell order for 500 shares cdsd at .93 bid was at 94 ask 95 my on line screen declined my sale saying NON-Negotiable asset. and a message to call tda cust srvc. I called cust serv and they told me to call the restricted desk #888 723 8504 I spoke to NICK. And placed a limit order of 500 at 93. GTC EOD, Bid and ask were at 945 and 96 resp. I continued to monitor my acct untill close.. no 93 sales. later this evening at 430 I double checked my acct and it showed a sale at 1605 at 93.. nothing on last sale.. nothing showing after hours. can anyone explain? I have my theorys about what happened but would like to hear from others. I still maintain over 9k free shares, and dont like games from tda.I sell what I want when I want. If tda is using my shares to cover. I will switch my accts to another broker TIA
dog? you are with scotty right? it just occured to me that the shorted brokers may not even be posting your stock outside the brokerage at all... they may just be buying them in-house...
what a crock huh?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
Glass...I wonder if that is why etrade told me to "call" when I wanted to sell? and Choicetrade is pushing me to get my certs...maybe so they can be "clear from having to deal with it? LOL
-------------------- #1 Rule: Protect your capital! #2 Rule: Never fall for the BS on the boards!
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Posted by: stoxman9 In reply to: None Date:9/22/2006 10:59:37 PM Post #of 80943
Can anyone answer this question? I tried an experiment today , at 3:19 this afternoon I tried to place a sell order for 500 shares cdsd at .93 bid was at 94 ask 95 my on line screen declined my sale saying NON-Negotiable asset. and a message to call tda cust srvc. I called cust serv and they told me to call the restricted desk #888 723 8504 I spoke to NICK. And placed a limit order of 500 at 93. GTC EOD, Bid and ask were at 945 and 96 resp. I continued to monitor my acct untill close.. no 93 sales. later this evening at 430 I double checked my acct and it showed a sale at 1605 at 93.. nothing on last sale.. nothing showing after hours. can anyone explain? I have my theorys about what happened but would like to hear from others. I still maintain over 9k free shares, and dont like games from tda.I sell what I want when I want. If tda is using my shares to cover. I will switch my accts to another broker TIA
dog? you are with scotty right? it just occured to me that the shorted brokers may not even be posting your stock outside the brokerage at all... they may just be buying them in-house...
what a crock huh?
Remember the article I posted last night regarding how trades are accomplished? If TDA has the FTD's that we are lead to belive they handled that transaction in house from their own inventory. This will not only allow them to cover an FTD but make money. My Uncle has an account with Wells Trade a while back he was in KRY. THe stock was dropping dramatically. I advised him to sell and buy back at the bottom. He called in his sell when the PPS was at $2.47. Wells told him that his sell didn't take effect until $2.21. Of course this was after the fact. While on the phone with him the price dropped to 1.98 I told him to buy because it up ticked to 1.99. Wells told him, after the fact that the buy didn't happen until 2.27. When I looked into the account later that evening but prior to them making adjustments, it showed a completely different story. I wish I had done a screen capture.
It showed 4 sells between 2.46 and 2.40 and also showed 3 buys between 2.00 and 2.10. I told him this and he called Customer service. While he was on the line with them, everything changed. I was in his account at the time and got booted. Once I was able to get back in all the trades had changed. Now we both had seen the buys and sells but once they were changed Wells played dumb.
Brokerages do make money by playing with their own inventory. So taking that into account maybe the brokers did make this worse and it isn't just the MM's that are to blame. I had forgotten this episode until my uncle reminded me because he is also in CSHD and very worried when it comes to his trades with Wells.
Take it for what it is worth and nothing more. I'm not advocating that anyone buys sells or holds. Make your own decision based on the DD you have done.
quote:Originally posted by betting babe: hey glass, someone posted that stoxman post that u quoted above on HSM as having originally come from here..
wheres it from?
ihub.... kinda like Fox "News" and News Hounds????
i read over there so YOU don't have to
Thanks. It's a sewer over there and my water bill was going up. Oh, by the way could you do something about the SLJB board here on Allstocks it's actually worse than the board on IHUB. Can you imagine that?
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