posted
volume is slowing down, price is stalling, excitement is dropping. the short covering may be over, this may be trading on it`s own now. ARCA is on the bid side at .0065 with alot of shares!
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quote:Originally posted by madmoney: volume is slowing down, price is stalling, excitement is dropping. the short covering may be over, this may be trading on it`s own now. ARCA is on the bid side at .0065 with alot of shares!
I'm out too with 300% profit since yesterday. Not waiting for it to go down that low to get hosed. GLTA
and my condolences to those who unknowingly shorted
-------------------- Rule 1: Always Protect Your Capital Rule 2: Earn slow, Don't lose fast
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posted
Here's my guess on what's going on. People are startiung to be happy with their profits and selling their position. I think that's going to be a good thing for almost everyone involved. (Well, relatively speaking) Because this really had (and I guess still has) the potential to break into the stratusphere, millions upon millions of dollars were at stake here, whether it comes from the pockets of AMeritrade or the investors, the fact that the price has basically stopped moving is probably good for everyone but the peole that bought at the top today.
Hopefully the fact that Ameritrade can now potentially cover at "only" 5-10x what the shares were "shorted" at and not the potentially multi-thousand% losses would lead me to believe that they MAY be willing to do the covering, without totally breaking their business or bankrupting hundreds of investors.
Good luck to everyone involved in any way.
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posted
yeah, that's what I've been trying to say, it's hard to think about when the price is going up like crazy, but there's a flip side to it of people taht you're intentionally screwing over. Granted you as an individual can't really "save" anyone, but maybe, just maybe, enough people realized they don't want to be TOO greedy, and this may play out okay for the indiviual investors that accidentally shorted the stock.
quote:Originally posted by AshyToClassy: Hey I told all short sellers this morning to pray that it dips...I guess their prayers are being answered now...
I like profit like the next guy, but man I don't like to see people suffer like this. Coulda been my money and mortgage etc on the line
posted
the dog has barked: By: dogcatcher17 24 May 2006, 12:07 PM EDT Msg. 54395 of 54400 (This msg. is a reply to 53855 by zbnoko.) Jump to msg. # JPHC/PAIV: What we are hearing is that the SEC and the NASD will force the brokerage firms to buy back everything that was sold; since the Stock that was sold was unregistered securities. We are hearing that at least 3 billion Shares were in the system. Those Shares will have to be covered. We are also hearing that the Stock still has plenty of room for a gigantic move in my opinion. So let's just sit back and see what happens. Good luck to all. - - - - -
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posted
He may be right, but I lost about $10 grand last time I listened to his bark I think I'll sit this one out from here on out.
quote:Originally posted by j_mania: the dog has barked: By: dogcatcher17 24 May 2006, 12:07 PM EDT Msg. 54395 of 54400 (This msg. is a reply to 53855 by zbnoko.) Jump to msg. # JPHC/PAIV: What we are hearing is that the SEC and the NASD will force the brokerage firms to buy back everything that was sold; since the Stock that was sold was unregistered securities. We are hearing that at least 3 billion Shares were in the system. Those Shares will have to be covered. We are also hearing that the Stock still has plenty of room for a gigantic move in my opinion. So let's just sit back and see what happens. Good luck to all. - - - - -
quote:Originally posted by j_mania: the dog has barked: By: dogcatcher17 24 May 2006, 12:07 PM EDT Msg. 54395 of 54400 (This msg. is a reply to 53855 by zbnoko.) Jump to msg. # JPHC/PAIV: What we are hearing is that the SEC and the NASD will force the brokerage firms to buy back everything that was sold; since the Stock that was sold was unregistered securities. We are hearing that at least 3 billion Shares were in the system. Those Shares will have to be covered. We are also hearing that the Stock still has plenty of room for a gigantic move in my opinion. So let's just sit back and see what happens. Good luck to all. - - - - -
If thats true, its huge light at the end of the tunnel for the investors if the brokerages have to buy back from their own pockets.
Also this means the MM's might just push this sucker past pluto since forced buybacks are guaranteed. Holy Sh*t. Better Ameritrade step up to the plate and stop screwing the investors
-------------------- Now We Movin On Up!!
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posted
Assuming what he said is true, it's hardly a light at the end of the tunnel. It says the brokerages have to buy the shares back that they sold, but it doesn't say they can't force the investor to pay the difference.
quote:Originally posted by AshyToClassy:
quote:Originally posted by j_mania: the dog has barked: By: dogcatcher17 24 May 2006, 12:07 PM EDT Msg. 54395 of 54400 (This msg. is a reply to 53855 by zbnoko.) Jump to msg. # JPHC/PAIV: What we are hearing is that the SEC and the NASD will force the brokerage firms to buy back everything that was sold; since the Stock that was sold was unregistered securities. We are hearing that at least 3 billion Shares were in the system. Those Shares will have to be covered. We are also hearing that the Stock still has plenty of room for a gigantic move in my opinion. So let's just sit back and see what happens. Good luck to all. - - - - -
If thats true, its huge light at the end of the tunnel for the investors if the brokerages have to buy back from their own pockets.
Also this means the MM's might just push this sucker past pluto since forced buybacks are guaranteed. Holy Sh*t. Better Ameritrade step up to the plate and stop screwing the investors
quote:Originally posted by j_mania: the dog has barked: By: dogcatcher17 24 May 2006, 12:07 PM EDT Msg. 54395 of 54400 (This msg. is a reply to 53855 by zbnoko.) Jump to msg. # JPHC/PAIV: What we are hearing is that the SEC and the NASD will force the brokerage firms to buy back everything that was sold; since the Stock that was sold was unregistered securities. We are hearing that at least 3 billion Shares were in the system. Those Shares will have to be covered. We are also hearing that the Stock still has plenty of room for a gigantic move in my opinion. So let's just sit back and see what happens. Good luck to all. - - - - -
If this is correct. It's impossible for all the short positions to be covered. According to the posts I have read there are only 56M tradable shares. If someone is buying to cover they then must hold and not resell those shares. That would mean that the entire float will have to be held. If that occurs, then there will be no shares available to be traded and no way possible for the entire short position to be covered.
In a normal short position once you purchase to cover you can then resell. It's fluid. In this case it's not. because those shares must be held. They are covering restricted shares.
If this isn't the case then can someone explain how over a billion share can be covered by 56M shares in the float?
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posted
Needs to break .01 here. Than it should move to HOD. Whatever happens I have learned a hel of alot playing this stock today. All of your posts have been very informative. Thanks for teaching us newbies.
posted
Wally, it's not impossible. Think about it this way:
Say there are 156 million shares on the market right now and there's only supposed to be 56 million.
Brokers will have to buy the 100 million shares at market value and then mark them as restricted, and put them back in the account of the person who sold them.
The only way it would be "impossible" is if more than 56million shares worth of investors flat out refuse to sell. Right?
Am I missing something?
quote:Originally posted by wallymac:
quote:Originally posted by j_mania: the dog has barked: By: dogcatcher17 24 May 2006, 12:07 PM EDT Msg. 54395 of 54400 (This msg. is a reply to 53855 by zbnoko.) Jump to msg. # JPHC/PAIV: What we are hearing is that the SEC and the NASD will force the brokerage firms to buy back everything that was sold; since the Stock that was sold was unregistered securities. We are hearing that at least 3 billion Shares were in the system. Those Shares will have to be covered. We are also hearing that the Stock still has plenty of room for a gigantic move in my opinion. So let's just sit back and see what happens. Good luck to all. - - - - -
If this is correct. It's impossible for all the short positions to be covered. According to the posts I have read there are only 56M tradable shares. If someone is buying to cover they then must hold and not resell those shares. That would mean that the entire float will have to be held. If that occurs, then there will be no shares available to be traded and no way possible for the entire short position to be covered.
In a normal short position once you purchase to cover you can then resell. It's fluid. In this case it's not. because those shares must be held. They are covering restricted shares.
If this isn't the case then can someone explain how over a billion share can be covered by 56M shares in the float?
posted
The float is SUPPOSED to be 28 million. Right now the actual float is somewhere significantly higehr than that. Those shares all need to be purchased and "retired' just like a normal stock buy-back. When all is said and done there needs to be 56 million shares total, insiders + float.
quote:Originally posted by wallymac:
quote:Originally posted by traderofcents: I've been talking to IR at PAIV There is only 28 Million Approx.
If that's correct then the float has already turned more than 10 times today alone.
posted
Wally, TD/A and other companies put ghost shares into their clients accounts. Those ghost shares have to be reconciled. The 56 million shares dont play into this because they were free trading to begin with. The ghost shares are not. They were to be restricted and not allowed to be traded. The only way I see this being resolved is for paiv (not blaming them) to do a forward split of non restricted shares like 2/1 or 3/2. Something small. That will require all shares to be reconciled. That should make all other shares that shouldnt be there go away. just my opinion. TMAN...
-------------------- In the end, trust only yourself when trading stocks.
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quote:Originally posted by tmanfromtexas: Wally, TD/A and other companies put ghost shares into their clients accounts. Those ghost shares have to be reconciled. The 56 million shares dont play into this because they were free trading to begin with. The ghost shares are not. They were to be restricted and not allowed to be traded. The only way I see this being resolved is for paiv (not blaming them) to do a forward split of non restricted shares like 2/1 or 3/2. Something small. That will require all shares to be reconciled. That should make all other shares that shouldnt be there go away. just my opinion. TMAN...
Exactly. This cannot be resolved without there being more shares made available to cover.
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posted
What am I missing? Why can't all the "ghost" shares be repurchased? Or are you going on the assumption that more than 56million shares are not "for sale"?
quote:Originally posted by wallymac:
quote:Originally posted by tmanfromtexas: Wally, TD/A and other companies put ghost shares into their clients accounts. Those ghost shares have to be reconciled. The 56 million shares dont play into this because they were free trading to begin with. The ghost shares are not. They were to be restricted and not allowed to be traded. The only way I see this being resolved is for paiv (not blaming them) to do a forward split of non restricted shares like 2/1 or 3/2. Something small. That will require all shares to be reconciled. That should make all other shares that shouldnt be there go away. just my opinion. TMAN...
Exactly. This cannot be resolved without there being more shares made available to cover.
posted
I didnt realize this at first but this is a fully reporting company. I mean its on the bb. With only 28m and Macro being their flagship this actually may be something to hold for 6/8 months. Makes you go Hmmmm. TMAN...
-------------------- In the end, trust only yourself when trading stocks.
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quote:Originally posted by tmanfromtexas: I didnt realize this at first but this is a fully reporting company. I mean its on the bb. With only 28m and Macro being their flagship this actually may be something to hold for 6/8 months. Makes you go Hmmmm. TMAN...
I like the way you dream TMAN, all the way to dollar land huh? LOL
-------------------- Rule 1: Always Protect Your Capital Rule 2: Earn slow, Don't lose fast
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posted
how could a foward split help?. if you owned shares in your trading account during a foward split you would get the split, if there are 500 million " ghost " shares in the hands of investors then after a foward split of 2 for 1 there would be 1.5 billion ghost shares in the hands of investors! your broker cannot simply deleet your shares!. an F/S would only compound the problem!
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quote:Originally posted by PCola77: What am I missing? Why can't all the "ghost" shares be repurchased? Or are you going on the assumption that more than 56million shares are not "for sale"?
quote:Originally posted by wallymac:
quote:Originally posted by tmanfromtexas: Wally, TD/A and other companies put ghost shares into their clients accounts. Those ghost shares have to be reconciled. The 56 million shares dont play into this because they were free trading to begin with. The ghost shares are not. They were to be restricted and not allowed to be traded. The only way I see this being resolved is for paiv (not blaming them) to do a forward split of non restricted shares like 2/1 or 3/2. Something small. That will require all shares to be reconciled. That should make all other shares that shouldnt be there go away. just my opinion. TMAN...
Exactly. This cannot be resolved without there being more shares made available to cover.
Some form of accounting is going to have to take place in order to know how real shares vs ghost shares there are and who actually owns what. Otherwise Ghost shares will just keep going round and round.
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posted
Pcola, you understand completely. The 56 mm doesnt have to be messed with today or next week for that matter. It is up to the houses that allowed the stock to be sold to either be forced to buy back or force their clients to buy back. They know how many damn shares they put out they know how much needs to be returned. What I am saying is if next week we are still seeing these huge share amounts being traded paiv should call the bluff and do a split to make all shares be accounted for. I am looking down the road if this doesnt clear up in the real near term. TMAN...
-------------------- In the end, trust only yourself when trading stocks.
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posted
They may clear it up today. who knows, the bottom line is tda and others are going to have make things right or I think the SEC is going to investigate and its gonna get real ugly. real fast. TMAN...
-------------------- In the end, trust only yourself when trading stocks.
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quote:Originally posted by madmoney: how could a foward split help?. if you owned shares in your trading account during a foward split you would get the split, if there are 500 million " ghost " shares in the hands of investors then after a foward split of 2 for 1 there would be 1.5 billion ghost shares in the hands of investors! your broker cannot simply deleet your shares!. an F/S would only compound the problem!
You're right. I just can't see how this will be resolved.
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I think I'll sit this one out from here on out.
