posted
I have been noticing that my orders placed though Ameritrade are going through at a different price than what I am getting charged.
For example I bought 100,000 shares of GZFX yesterday. I put in a limit order @ .098 I watched my order officially go through @ .097 but they charged me .098.
Who pocketed the 100$ difference? This has been happening to me quite often and it probably happens to you. Next order you place, pay attention to what price the order actually goes through at. It happens on both buy and sell orders. Somewhere along the line, someone is pocketing the money that is stolen from us!!!!
posted
I had this happened to me. I called ameritrade and here is the explanation. When the price of the stock that you limit ordered has reached the limit it turns to market and it buys at market. This was how it was explained to me. Sense or not?
posted
I had an order that was sold at limit and was posted as a higher price on the sale --there is no explanation that i will be happy with on this--it went thru on Fri and I am POSITIVE that it was my order because i have been expirementing with the system---------
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posted
Volume was so low yesterday for PCRC I know I had the first trade. My question: "Is this accepted/legal?" I bet my limit would not have been filled at .0012, but theirs was. Interesting.
PWM
------------------ ___________________________________ Don't Forget Your Research - Good Luck
posted
You agree to buy/sell at your limit price when you place a limit order--not the current "market price." A brokerage firm is only obligated to fill your order at the limit; I don't believe there is anything illegal with them making a profit on the trade by buying/selling in the market at a price below/above your limit price and pocketing the difference.
Somebody, please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
[This message has been edited by competentone (edited February 11, 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by competentone: You agree to buy/sell at your limit price when you place a limit order--not the current "market price." A brokerage firm is only obligated to fill your order at the limit; I don't believe there is anything illegal with them making a profit on the trade by buying/selling in the market at a price below/above your limit price and pocketing the difference.
Somebody, please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
[This message has been edited by competentone (edited February 11, 2004).]
I agree, I think that is what the "Island" system is used for by the ECN's so that they can match up our buy/sells to other buy/sells of ECNS for the purposed of 1)circumventing MM's to give us our purchase/sell price and 2)placing quicker orders...It is actually to our advantage to have that system so the MM's have to be more competitive. I'll email Ameritrade and ask them straight up just for clarification.
posted
Maybe i was not clear---MY sale price was not what appeared on the streaming quote- Every body else saw a higher price paid than was the TRUE price--this is not honest---period
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Maybe i was not clear---MY sale price was not what appeared on the streaming quote- Every body else saw a higher price paid than was the TRUE price--this is not honest---period
Glass, no worries, you were very clear. First, realize that the market we trade in wasn't "fair" until 1999 and since then it is slowly getting "fairer" and "fairer" there is still much going on behind the scenes on Instinet and Island that we do not see nor take part in. Bascially, our market has a split personality and those two personalities are getting closer and closer to being 1. Second, I agree that the discrepency you saw was correct as I myself have seen that as well with my orders. I have always justified it as my ECN (ameritrade) connecting my sell/buy with one within Ameritrade or on the Island system. This means that it never made it out to the MM's and basically I did buisness with one of our fellow day traders. NOW, whether or not it is legal, ethical or moral to only honor my limit price and make money off of the spread I'm not exactly sure and will definitly be reading up on that tonight. It does seem sketchy but, to be honest, worse things have happened in our OTC world but that is not to say we should put up with it.
posted
Well, i have noticed this before as well, in fact i had a post out awhile back that nobody responded to. May i suggest somebody contact the SEC and point them to this thread..........Maybe we can get some results that way. As far as being legal...no it is not. When u put a Limit order in for a buy, the Buy should go through at current market price(even if is lower than the limit set).These people are making more stealing our money, than they are trading.
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quote:Originally posted by competentone: You agree to buy/sell at your limit price when you place a limit order--not the current "market price." A brokerage firm is only obligated to fill your order at the limit; I don't believe there is anything illegal with them making a profit on the trade by buying/selling in the market at a price below/above your limit price and pocketing the difference.
Somebody, please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
[This message has been edited by competentone (edited February 11, 2004).]
Wrong.... How is it legal??
If you put a limit order to buy in @ .109, that means that .109 is the max you are willing to pay for the stock.
So you pay your broker to execute your order at the lowest possible price up to .109
Now if they were able to execute the order @ .108 and then they charged you, their clients, the people who keep them in business, .109 that means that they were able to pocket that .001 per share, which can add up to alot of money.
Can you honestly tell me that this isn't a scam?? They are stealing our money!!!! Is it legal to steal money from your clients? In what other business would this type of BS be tollerated?
This needs to end. We are getting F**ked. Everybody needs to file a complaint until this stops.
quote:Originally posted by delt16: Wrong.... How is it legal??
If you put a limit order to buy in @ .109, that means that .109 is the max you are willing to pay for the stock.
So you pay your broker to execute your order at the lowest possible price up to .109
Now if they were able to execute the order @ .108 and then they charged you, their clients, the people who keep them in business, .109 that means that they were able to pocket that .001 per share, which can add up to alot of money.
Can you honestly tell me that this isn't a scam?? They are stealing our money!!!! Is it legal to steal money from your clients? In what other business would this type of BS be tollerated?
This needs to end. We are getting F**ked. Everybody needs to file a complaint until this stops.
How about Banks, credit cards, car dealerships...ha ha, EVERYONE is out to steal your money.
posted
My take on MM's is that they have always been able to shave points on the transactions- they have always done that- the switch (refered to above) from 1/8s to decimals made this harder for them to do----but the MM's on OTC are burning our candle at both ends when they short and take a commission--thats my REAL POINT----are they reporting income from sales commissions and trading profits?
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posted
The difference between the real price on my sale and the posted price was 3% thats more than i expect to pay for a trade------------
- I am also paying the brokers fee---i have had some trades go through that were proper and some that were not---I think it depends on who you get on the transaction (MM?)--
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited February 11, 2004).]
posted
Paul I often split bid/asks--I hunt for big spreads and play them--say i see bid .28 an ask .45--this one is recent play as close as i can remmeber the #s--(all #s are approximate but close) I split the bid/ask at .35 on my buy --it filled in 5 min.
they moved up and stayed open when the bid/ask hit .45 an .58--I put my sell in @.52--it sold @.52 and it showed .52 on the streamer-----i have also had fills on my lilmit orders lower than my offer--i have never before seen a sell price that i could verify was posted above my actual realisation
posted
They are supposed to get you the stock at the best price acting in the customers best interest yet they have not and this is what makes it questionable.It is legal however it isn't ethical and there have been ongoing investigations and studies on this but the reforms that were to materialize haven't and from what I have read there won't be any changes any time soon.But maybe if more investors complained and questioned this practice the big boyz will listen.
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quote:Originally posted by power9: They are supposed to get you the stock at the best price acting in the customers best interest yet they have not and this is what makes it questionable.It is legal however it isn't ethical and there have been ongoing investigations and studies on this but the reforms that were to materialize haven't and from what I have read there won't be any changes any time soon.But maybe if more investors complained and questioned this practice the big boyz will listen.
Powerman9000 =) Do you have a linke to an article or website that has info on this?
posted
Glass, thats interesting. Who do you suppose is filling your buy/sell order when you split the bid/ask?? Ive never tried that.-- I also have never seen a limit sell fill higher than specified.
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quote:Originally posted by delt16: ...you pay your broker to execute your order at the lowest possible price up to .109 [the limit price]
Read the terms on your brokerage agreement--I don't think it says that you're "paying the broker to execute at the lowest (or highest if selling) possible price when you place a limit order."
I don't know what the SEC rules are on this, but believe it is legal for the broker to just meet your limit price.
As for your complaint that it's "stealing"--I don't see how you draw that conclusion. Nearly every business has similiar cost issues--in my own business I can sometimes buy items my customers want at discount prices, I still charge my customers the "regular" price and keep the difference as my extra profit. I guess you'd say I'm "stealing" from my customer? To me, it's just a good business move.
posted
I got a response from Ameritrade and they gave me a screen shot of my order and all the other buy/sells around my order and verified that, despite what I saw on the streaming buy/sell through OTCcharts that they sold my stock at the "FAIR MARKET VALUE" and did not in turn sell the stock higher. What the customer service rep said was that the MM who posts the buys/sells probably turned around and sold the stock right away above my sell price and only posted the higher to the market...and the MM's can do whatever the heck they want so that clears it up for me.
posted
HOT TOPIC GUYS I have wondered about this for a long time. How do you prove anything? If you do prove it, sure may get a few freetrades while continuing to operate the deal on others. VAN
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that's more or less what i thought---my sale should have been posted separately from the resale is my point-I think two quotes are more honest than one---this single quote does not give us a clear picture of the activity----and it shows US one more way that the MM's can paint the charts to look however they want--especially in a running stock. I am not whining -I pointed it out to my broker and they said that it was odd---I got my limit--anything else is gravy--biscuits tooooo
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: that's more or less what i thought---my sale should have been posted separately from the resale is my point-I think two quotes are more honest than one---this single quote does not give us a clear picture of the activity----and it shows US one more way that the MM's can paint the charts to look however they want--especially in a running stock. I am not whining -I pointed it out to my broker and they said that it was odd---I got my limit--anything else is gravy--biscuits tooooo
Mmmmm, gravy and biscuits sound good right about now
posted
GLASS Overall I am happy with Ameritrade. I have made a lot of money thru them, even if they are RIPPING on me. I Can't prove it & I hope for better. One never knows whether you are outsmarting everyone or not. I think it is much tougher in the pennys. VAN
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