posted
could you explain this to a newbie, what do these market makers do, and how do they make money doing it and cause us problems. Simple terms please
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stocktrada
unregistered
posted
I looked at HOM for today and the evidence you talk about is either so clear that I see right through it or its not there. Could you please explain?
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Easy to see when you watch a live feed, and easy to surmise when you know stocks.
Two Market Makers received low price sell orders today. News came out which supports a healthy increase in prices. Rather than execute those low price sell orders, they sat on them all day.
During the day those two Market Makers raided margin accounts for shares, ran prices up as should be with this news. They sold others shares at a high price, and continued to sit on low price sell orders until precisely thirty minutes before the closing bell.
When they elected to execute those low price sell orders, both Market Makers entered bids of their own which match the low price sell orders.
When they did this, a gap of twenty cents was instantly created. Not a slow decline in prices, literally an instant twenty cent per share drop in prices.
Those Market Makers held those low price sell orders all day knowing they could buy those shares cheap, to replace shares they swiped from accounts of others.
They profited by stealing others shares, profited by making use of their inside information and inflicted damage upon both the company and investors by reducing capitalization by millions of dollars.
Actual damages are significant because those Market Makers dropped prices six cents below opening price for a total drop of fifteen cents, based on mean average buy price, today.
Multiple fifteen cents times the total share float, and you have the damages.
A number of actual crimes are committed, four counts for each of dozens of trades they made, illegally.
Holding execution of customer's orders. Trading using inside information. Not obeying the bid test rule. Shorting on the down tick.
Civil damage is done to all investors and the company itself.
The clincher, the hard evidence, is this instant twenty cent down gap. This cannot be explained away. This does not happen save for when Market Makers commit crimes.
Instant twenty cents drop in price followed by dozens of fast buys, in a matter of a few minutes. This simply does not happen during a normal course of trading.
I am packaging up my data, writing an explanation, and will be notifying the company, the Market Makers and the SEC.
I will be alleging criminal violations, multiple counts, against two Market Makers.
posted
lionness on the prowl--look out boys----go get'em gurl---
take note--you folks who place limit sell orders(whether stop loss or plain limit sell) DO NOT leave them on the table all day if you can help it--IT IS ASKING to have your pocket picked--I know this makes it hard to trade and go to work--but check in from the office if you can---cancel them when they don't fill properly--this leaves the MM's HIGH AND DRY if they are trying to use your orders to screw you and other traders... I cancel buy and sell orders ALL THE TIME if i don't like what i see on the ticker after I place the orders......... If my buy order causes the ASK to go up and the MM's aren't filling orders higher than me--I cancel and wait--if they are filling real orders then i consider chasing but rarely do I actually chase--it's already too late------ besides, there's always another stock going up somewhere-----
posted
Thanks for your thoughts on this Purl. I was just about to ask what the hell hapened at the end of the day today on the HOM thread then I ran across this thread. I wasn't watching the stock mutch today but caught about the last hour of activity. It's always nice to see a nice gain in the old portfolio based on good news be washed away in a matter of minutes for god knows what reason Thanks again for possibly explaining the confusion I had.
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Had a recent experience lately which really pissed me off and resulted in a terse formal complaint being sent to E*trade.
I routinely cancel day limit orders when a price drop appears likely. Normally, confirmation of a cancel comes in within one minute, usually within thirty seconds.
With E*trade, a cancel turns an order red, then very shortly, back to white with a cofirmation of cancelled.
Remember GUSH and all the trouble I had trying to buy? CINN is my Market Maker.
I placed a day limit order, sat on it for an hour or so, then saw signals of prices dropping later. I entered a cancel order which did not "take" for over a half hour, and suddenly, my order was executed for the buy, then prices dropped.
The CINN Market Maker was playing both sides of the bid and ask. What he did is ignore my cancel, forced me to buy just seconds before prices dropped. He sold me his own shares, or shorted shares, at a higher price, then ran prices down to accumulate for his own account.
End result was a nasty letter from me which has no effect at all, save for feeling better having chewed him out for a minor securities violation.
You know, if a majority of investors would take aggressive actions like I do, changes would come about, in the future.
I am totally burnt out after decades of watching Wall Street and the SEC commit crime after crime after crime...
posted
You will note today NAS and ASE Market Makers are today, executing low price sells promptly, for HOM stock.
Knight and Wells, the SEC is doing really good. Only took the SEC over four years to catch on to Knight and has spent two years investigating Knight before issuing this Wells notice.
Yes, I rat on Wall Street every single chance I have. These daily crimes are so blatantly obvious. Oh boy, ten years later the SEC announces,
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This is classic performance reflection on the SEC, and does confirm SEC corruption.
Back in 1985 mutual fund managers, their firms and the funds themselves, began a sales pitch of rewarding fund managers with prizes, gifts and cash awards for directing the most customers to very specific funds. Otherwords, kickbacks for convincing customers to invest in selected mutual funds.
You can surmise those salespersons were not interested in customers making money but rather winning those kickbacks.
Late last year, the SEC makes an announcement, which is paraphrased here,
"We did not know fund managers were receiving kickback payments from funds."
This has been going on for over two decades and the SEC never noticed? How much more obvious of a lie can the SEC tell?
posted
Lemons are great for scrubbing calcium stains from toilets, removing stains from clothing and excellent for your face and complexion.
Lemonade is ok, too.
Chocolate, huh uh, nope, no way, bad news for my big butt. Just the thought of having some delicious scrumptious Swiss chocolate causes my backside to gain forty pounds and makes it more difficult for me to stand.
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SEES is local and IMO matches the European stuff five times as expensive--I admit I have yet to spend OUTRAGEOUS sums on the finest available----but i will cross that bridge when i can afford the toll charges--LOL--- hevy meddle thunder yeeuh
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Isn't it odd, Glassman, to be old and listening to hard core rock n roll?
Sometimes I feel like I am doing something wrong, like I should be listening to Frank Sinatra, Elvis and that Englebarf Humperdick fellow or even timely Jimmy Dorsey.
I was the OLDEST guy at the Offspring---keep'em separated tour -I saw them at a 300 person show in VA Beach. won't tell you who the oldest female was but she was my date--LOL
I like small venues--the BIG shows are too canned-----caricaturistic even
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I currently use TD Waterhouse to aquire my stock. However, as I only started buying shares about one month ago, TD Waterhouse was the first venue I used. I'm not very happy with their service ($29 US per trade), and- moreso, the factthat any order I place, usually won't post to my account for 2 or 3 business days... doesn't this defeat the purpose of buying a stock (unless I'm in it for the long run?)? If I see a great price on a stock- I want to add it to my portolio immediately (assuming I decided to buy during market hours). Can you guys suggest any online stock accounts (EShare, or things like it, etc...) who have a good reputation, of executing orders quickly, both when buying AND selling, and are reliable, legitimate, etc? I do have solid capital, and can't wait to dive deeper into the stockmarket (I know, I know... many of you are thinkin' this guy's a rookie- he's divin' into a pool with no water, head first....). I'm doing plenty of research, and.. I know, even after years in the game, I'll still be learning... but hey- the journey of 1,000 miles, starts with just one step, right? That first step for me will be closing my TD Waterhouse accounts, and transferring my assets (aimed at investments) to a place that can execute orders in real time, or close to it... Thank you in advance to anyone who'll take a moment help out....
As for rock n' roll... re: Offspring (oldest guy at the show)... I know how you feel- only in the inverse... I'm a die hard fan of 80s glam/hair metal, yet I'm only 26. Usually when I go to see bands like Stryper, Cinderella, Winger, Whitesnake, Dokken, Scorpions in concert- I am the YOUNGEST guy there, hehehe, and the ladies with me, are usually even younger, hehehe.
Rock ti'll you drop... then rock some more! PJ (METAL777)
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Hey --love hevy meddle--saw Rob Halford(tanx metal--I don't read the names i just listen) take control of the room three times--every one was great.
I would have said Scottrade till two weeks ago--have been having some problems on my full streaming quotes here for a little while--it may be my puter--some weird stuff going around--- they are not the cheapest-- but they don't hold my funds at all--i don't margin so this is important(PRE-settlement money come right into my DAYTRADE buy power--i don't free ride --i can buy right away but not sell till settlemnet of the previous sell) and they execute VERY well on trades------
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited March 05, 2004).]
posted
"The impending charges stem from a nearly two-year-old investigation...."
The SEC is very quick to protect investors, about as quick as a snail on ice. Perhaps in another two years the SEC will get around to the next complaint, out of thousands, against Knight. By the time the SEC realizes investors have been defrauded, we will all be long dead.
Only took them nineteen years to figure out mutual fund managers take kickbacks.
Thanks for the insight, I appreciate it. I've heard plenty about Scottrade, and I will look into opening an account with them.
As for ROB HALFORD... I saw him rock TOKYO harder than an 8.0 a few months ago. Three nights in a row, sold out stadium in Shibuya (known as the heavy metal capital district of Tokyo)... if you're a fan of metal/hard rock music... visit Tokyo one day- the scene is as strong there today as it was here in the late 80s.
Thanks again for the help, I appreciate it. I enjoy reading your posts, and feel lucky to have the ability to read the many prudent insights you share with the rest of us, as well as the insights of many other objective, eloquent, and seasoned veterans on this board.
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Thanks again for possibly explaining the confusion I had.
