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Author Topic: 11,588,500 Words: Obamacare Regs 30x as Long as Law
CashCowMoo
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Way to go Ray! Your party has drowned the nation in garbage!


Bureaucracies in the Obama Administration have thus far published approximately 11,588,500 words of final Obamacare regulations, while there are only 381,517 words in the Obamacare law itself.

That means unelected federal officials have now written 30 words of regulations for each word in the law.


http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/11588500-words-obamacare-regs-30x-lo ng-law

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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T e x
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cns news?

really?

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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CashCowMoo
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So.....the news I posted in this thread is a lie and made up about obama care regs? I guess I should have never strayed from Mother Jones or Media Matters.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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Upside
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Regardless of the source this is one screwed up piece of legislation. As an employer here's what I'm facing:

As of October 1st I had to let every employee know that the health care exchanges were open and that they could look up and purchase individual policies versus going with the group plan that we offer. Failure on my part to do so would result in a fine from the government of an unknown amount. They've waived the fines for the first year because the fine amounts and the employer non-compliance discovery methods are yet to be established.

If a single employee elects to purchase a plan through the exchange and drop the company offered plan I get fined another unknown amount, I believe that these too have been waived for the first year for the same reasons as above.

As an employer, shopping the exchange for a group plan is futile. The rates for similar coverages are anywhere from 30% to 50% more expensive for employer purchased plans versus individually purchased.

My original plan was to stop offering group health insurance as a benefit and instead supplement the wages of any employee that purchases a plan on their own. Looked like a perfect solution, the company saves money by paying less for individual plans versus the inflated group rates and we can still advertise that we offer health insurance as a benefit to prospective future employees. Nope, wrong again. If I fail to offer employer sponsored insurance I'm fined once again, an amount that would effectively wipe out any cost savings to the company.

This legislation is placing businesses in a no win situation. The cost of offering health insurance as a benefit has increased dramatically and to offer it through a wage supplement package is just as prohibitive, most smaller businesses simply can't absorb it. The only alternative is to drop health care coverage completely, no company sponsored plan and no wage supplement plan for individual purchases. Businesses will be fined for not offering it but they'll still net a substantial savings over their current and future costs.

So guess who's going to suffer the most under Obamacare. Those who can least afford it, employees that are trying to make a living. Come 2014 their household budget for healthcare is going to skyrocket. While certain sectors of society will benefit by lower cost or free health care it's going to cripple a huge percentage of our backbone, working men and women.

I guess that somehow that's progressive and good for society but I just don't see it. Maybe Ray can explain it to me.

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glassman
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Businesses will be fined for not offering it but they'll still net a substantial savings over their current and future costs.


there it is. right there.

the fine is 2,000$ per employe in these here southern parts...

that money fromt he fine? it goes into susbdies from the govt to help people BUY health care.....

it is a mess, but teh Govt is not stealing the money form anybody (as the Tparty claims)... the govenrmtn is actually creating moeny outanothing and borrowing it to pay for current health care costs...

this is why they need EVERYONE to sign up and pay fines or taxes or whatever they are calling them....

if you signed up an employee whose spouse needed a heart transplant? would it be covered under the policies you can provide them?
(that's a rhetorical question BTW, because the answer is already no) but teh bills do get paid, and the way they do it is already friggin mess...

the health care system in America has been broken to chit for years, and th eonly way to come anywhere close to fixing it is to offer private imnsurance to those who can afford it,a nd governmnt health care to those who cannot...

IMO? we will be abandoning employer based health care in five years, and we SHOULD HAVE ten years ago...

we alreayd have a multi-tiered system, but nobody talks about it...

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BooDog
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You're hard to read sometmes Glass. lol


This is, and as you mentioned, has been a mess. Now it's just septic.

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All post are my opinion. Do your own DD. Who's clicking your buy/sell button!?

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BooDog
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What's nuts is the cost of healthcare. $20,200.00 for my son to get a MRI, a band aid and released after just a 2 1/2 hour hospital ER visit. No meds, just a simple scan (which was only about $1,100 of the bill - billed separately) a 1 minute look from the doctor ~ if that and a tech to spend about 5 minutes cleaning out the gravel from his wounds.
I won't go into the employer insurance plans much but if you have to pay the monthly fee, and then have to pay 5k + before insurance even kicks in along with the co pay for perscriptions rising where does it end? some pay 30 - 50% or more of their income just on healthcare? that's crazy. And to pay that much and end up not even using it? I can't wait till tax season to see how much more I'll be paying. The plan i used as an example is where my wife works, and no, we don't use it, we have our own, and as cash mentioned, she got the letter in the mail about the healthcare.gov crap and privacy act, AND a statement saying the employer could disclose certain aspects to other insurance companies. WTF is up with that?


"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States, where men were free" R. Reagan
[Big Grin]

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All post are my opinion. Do your own DD. Who's clicking your buy/sell button!?

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Relentless.
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Total overhaul - Tech experts tell USA Today: “The federal health care exchange was built using 10-year-old technology that may require constant fixes and updates for the next six months and the eventual overhaul of the entire system.”

Bob won't let me post the link, but it's on FOX news website...

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Relentless.
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Emerging errors include duplicate enrollments, spouses reported as children, missing data fields and suspect eligibility determinations, say executives at more than a dozen health plans. Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Nebraska said it had to hire temporary workers to contact new customers directly to resolve inaccuracies in submissions. Medical Mutual of Ohio said one customer had successfully signed up for three of its plans.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obamacare-woes-widen-as-insurers-get-wrong-data -2013-10-18

Just gets better and better

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Relentless.
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Just wait until people start getting two and three duplicate bills..

Unaffordable with just one policy.. try three.

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glassman
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Medical Mutual of Ohio said one customer had successfully signed up for three of its plans.

LOL... i thought this plan was unpopular?

i have to admit that i have wondered how much of the trouble has been caused deliberately...
i'm not saying the tparty would ever do anything as underhanded as denial of service hacks or anythng like that...

what do people expect when they put out Government bids-lowest bidder, remembr?

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Relentless.
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Actually I do a lot of bids for government work, and I can assure you the specifications are exacting.

And no the tea party did not hack the site.

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glassman
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Distributed DoS attacks are an interesting phenomena. The premise goes like this:

Attacker compromises 500 computers
Attacker installs special software to listen for commands and send massive loads of packets
Attacker uses special client software to send commands to 500 computers to direct them to flood a victim network

There are already several such tools available, such as Trinoo, TFN2K, and stacheldraht. Look for them on Packetstorm.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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as to govt contracts? i was involved with them almost my whole life. my dad was contracing officer for several agencies before he switched over to EEO investigations...
i was contractor for many years myself and so was my wife-

they do tend to be very specific, but nonethelss, they go the cheapest bidder under almost all circumstances. The specs can also be misguided in their requests and the Contractors also psend considerable energy and time figuring out how to "get around" the specs after tehy win the bidding proceess...
.... i once won bid to fix all typewriters on site in several agencies in th DC area for 6$ each plus travel epxenses... that 6$ was only good for typewritres less than 7 years old tho, and since skightly more than half were older? I could send any of them i wanted out to the shop and get 200$ to fix them if they didn;t want to buy a POS plastic typewriter to replace an IBM Selectric,... The newer plastic one were pretty much unfixable....igot paid 6 bucks to pronounce them dead [Wink] of course desk top computers came along eventually, but they are actaully easier to fix and i could charge alot more to fix them...
i used to go into NSA at Ft Meade and fix thier antique IBM keypunchcard driven Typewrters and MagCard Typewters at 650$ pr call cuz i was the only one who still knew how to do it... some old guy taught me, and they used them long after they should have been replaced because they were being used for something special,i dunno know what it was because I followed my security protocols and never even asked if i needed to know [Big Grin]
As the IBM Mag Card "Selectric" Typewriter enjoyed popularity being one of the most efficient typing systems ever made, IBM evolved the concept a step further with the development of the IBM Communicating Mag Card "Selectric" Typewriter. With its introduction, magnetic card typewriters are able to send prerecorded information to each other, over any distance via voice-grade telephones. In addition, the Communicating Mag Card Typewriter also enables magnetic card typewriters to provide input to computers, as well as receiving information from them.

For work involving extensive revision, the IBM Mag Card II Typewriter was introduced in 1973. Its electronic memory holds up to 8,000 characters, equivalent to about 2 ½ pages of typing. Once in memory, information can be recorded on magnetic cards at 200 characters per second. And, as is the case with other magnetic media typewriters, its memory allows for making major revisions without retyping. Regardless of whether changes consist of one word or a whole page, only the changes need to be typed. All other copy is automatically played out from memory.

i also got to work on a few ancient Univacs that worked on Magtape instead of magcards, but i can't tell you where they were installed....


govt contracts can be a total nightmare... i was always impressed that we put men on the moon using equipment bought and built by the lowest bidder... my dad always told me that as a CO at NASA in the 60's he had a lot of struggles with the c ontractors and the engineers wanting to change the conspecs every few weeks at times... the contractors almost always tried to find a way to pad the deal, and no matter how he tried, they always seemed to try slip something by , so he made sure to have tight specs...

"The Government" is just people relentless. Most of the ones that run the show are total a-holes... but not all of them...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Relentless.
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
Distributed DoS attacks are an interesting phenomena. The premise goes like this:

Attacker compromises 500 computers
Attacker installs special software to listen for commands and send massive loads of packets
Attacker uses special client software to send commands to 500 computers to direct them to flood a victim network

There are already several such tools available, such as Trinoo, TFN2K, and stacheldraht. Look for them on Packetstorm.

I assure you I am Familiar with DDOS attacks...
I am legion
I do not forgive
I do not forget
You should have expected me.


Bammycare site is not being attacked.. Stop with the excuses.

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Relentless.
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quote:
GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) - The Affordable Care Act website will be taken down this weekend so experts can try to fix some of the glitches in the system.

The website was unveiled in the beginning of October, and millions of Americans have been struggling to use healthcare.gov to shop for health insurance.

Not only are the users having problems with the system, but health insurance companies have also run into technical glitches.

http://www.woodtv.com/news/national/affordable-care-act-site-taken-down

LOLOLOL....

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glassman
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Stop with the excuses

i'm not making excuses. you are "straw manning" me;
the system we have is bankrupt, the new system is not working. society is failing relentless.

as to teh Tparty being willing to shut down the country and even the world economy over Obamacare but not doing anything online to mess with it?

that's a ridiculous proposition. i am simply applying stragiht-forward logic.

you MAY be correct that it not being attacked by "Competent(?)" hackers, but to assure me that it is not being messed with by the organisations that hate it don't float neither....

if you are a govt contractor? then you know that the contractor is at least 50% responsible. if the govt spec'ed the job wrong? then the contractors should have countered. This si how it has ALWAYS worked. You do not build a POS and put your name on it and survive in this world

what's not working today? I know what's not working- seen it first hand- it's the intellect of the masses, which doesn't even exist [Wink]

BTW? i just opened the website, i didn't go anywhere in it, but it's open right now which means your articles is wrong...
to go in there when i do not need to would just be adding to the trouble right?

https://www.healthcare.gov/

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Relentless.
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it's a different exchange...
No one is attacking the site...

There is no reason to.
Why bother attacking a site which is crippled already by design?

What with the obsession with the tea party?
The tea party stopped being a real movement the second Palin was ordered to commandeer it.

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Relentless.
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Pirated

I'm sure the megalithic and Maniacal Tea Party forced them to pirate the software used to make this site too.

Those dastardly tea party folks know no limit to their wicked ways..

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glassman
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i agree that teh Tparty is dead movement, but Senator Cruz and Rand Paul do not..

i am a practical libertarian relentless.

the Tparty wants all the liberty and they want everyone else to be under control so they are able to do wahtever they want.
there is a major intellectual disconnect, but they exersized their power this past month..

if you go back and read what i posted? i said "i have to admit that i have wondered how much of the trouble has been caused deliberately"

wonder? as in how many people are mucking around in the sites?

if in fact all of the blame is on the builders of the site? then they should pay to fix it. if they satisfied their contract to the letter? then they should have informed whoever wrote the contract that the specs were flawed. (right?)

what i am really telling you is that IF this sytem is really that forkked up? it's not Obam's personal fault. It is the whole stupid system's fault. If Obama does not find out what is wrong and direct competent people to get on the job and fix the problems?
then it DOES become his fault.

are we agreed on that? you can't know something is broken if you are not an expert in the feild-

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Relentless.
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It's not bammy's fault.. He's just a puppet. This same system was tried earlier, only it was called Hillarycare at the time.

If you read some of the articles I've posted then you will see the whole team was upended by bs government intervention.

The whole thing was written with ten year old technology. When dealing with the government, there is no wiggle room. The site was written exactly to their specifications.. Which means they spec'd a worthless website that was never meant to work.

I can not be convinced that the same government who taps every phone call in the nation can't build a functioning website.

It was never meant to work.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Pirated

I'm sure the megalithic and Maniacal Tea Party forced them to pirate the software used to make this site too.

Those dastardly tea party folks know no limit to their wicked ways..

yawn, minor issue. "“It is free for you to use! DataTables is available under two licenses: GPS v2 license or a BSD (3-point) license, with which you must comply (to do this, basically keep the copyright notices in the software).”

pirated? that's an insult to pirates. i tend do to think of pirates as competent or dead. these guys are incompetent.

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Relentless.
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It is still a serious offence considering the scale.
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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
It's not bammy's fault.. He's just a puppet. This same system was tried earlier, only it was called Hillarycare at the time.

If you read some of the articles I've posted then you will see the whole team was upended by bs government intervention.

The whole thing was written with ten year old technology. When dealing with the government, there is no wiggle room. The site was written exactly to their specifications.. Which means they spec'd a worthless website that was never meant to work.

I can not be convinced that the same government who taps every phone call in the nation can't build a functioning website.

It was never meant to work.

Hillary care was differnt form this tho... Hillary is friggin scary- if you really beleive that Hillary and Obama are the same then you don't know American politics.

to put this bluntly relentless? if you do not want single payer Hillary care? then you should get behind this and insit they make THIS work ASAP.

cuz whne this does fail? that's what is coming.

right now? my tea leaves tell me we are facing an elction in 2016 with Hillary versus some slavering idjit like Palin.

i will prolly leave the country

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Relentless.
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Hillary is the same satanist that Bush/Bammy/Bush/Clinton/Reagan/carter.... are.

They are all related by blood.

I do more than suspect I know quite a bit more.

I've done A LOT of reading in three years.

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Relentless.
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I don't actually care what the health system is as long as it works.

My point is the site was never meant to work.

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Hillary is the same satanist that Bush/Bammy/Bush/Clinton/Reagan/carter.... are.

They are all related by blood.

I do more than suspect I know quite a bit more.

I've done A LOT of reading in three years.

Holy f**king wow! You actually truly believe that? I hope you were just being sarcastic in some non-sensical way.

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It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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Relentless.
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Pagan,

Do some research.
Bush and Bammy are related by blood.
They all are.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
I don't actually care what the health system is as long as it works.

My point is the site was never meant to work.

I'm not aware (yet) that it was designed to fail, however, i see how that all works out to get Hillary care.

private industry in the USA will actaully benfit from being released formt eh burden of providing health care to it's employees

an employee who is unhappy at one place of employment will be more free to switch jobs or even strike out ont heir own IF we provide a govt health plan.

on the other side of that coin? thos of us that are successful, have struck out on our own and succeeded should still be able t o purchase premium health care...

IF this scenario i have just outlined is not on the horizon? then we will fail. we are failing right now.

there is already a graduated health care system in America, in genreal? everybody in the US gets basic health care IF htey go ask for it. The sytem that must be changed is how the billing system is setup....

you can't charge a young family 20,000 because their kids fell off his bike and had to get a wound debrided. Been there done that more than once. hell i've enve seen them take exrays and MRI's that they don't need to simply because they buoght eh equipment and have to USE it to genreate income...
i have sat in a doctors house with her while she reads those MRI's and X-rays online for 250 a pop at fiveminutes per image... out of that 250? the doctor will actually only net about 30% due to the way the hosptital controls the flow of work.....
that doctor also went itno 200K worht of debt to get there, and will spend half the rest of her career paying that off.
the economic situation in medicine is so bleak that there is no simple quiclk fix.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Pagan,

Do some research.
Bush and Bammy are related by blood.
They all are.

Please show these links you refer to. Was Bush in Kenya too? Hawaii maybe? And pleeeeaase divulge your source.

--------------------
It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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Relentless.
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Glass,

You are right in that the current system is wrought with corruption.
Bammycare does NOTHING to stop that and was never intended to.

Bammycare is about control. That is all it's about.

They aren't making the system better or worse. They have re-written (If you read bammycare, yes I have, then you will see it is not a law but merely amendments to existing laws) laws via bammycare to enslave every man woman and child in this country.

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Relentless.
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quote:
Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Pagan,

Do some research.
Bush and Bammy are related by blood.
They all are.

Please show these links you refer to. Was Bush in Kenya too? Hawaii maybe? And pleeeeaase divulge your source.
Here.. this site will lead you on a vast voyage.

AN UNKNOWN WEBSITE

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Glass,

You are right in that the current system is wrought with corruption.
Bammycare does NOTHING to stop that and was never intended to.

Bammycare is about control. That is all it's about.

They aren't making the system better or worse. They have re-written (If you read bammycare, yes I have, then you will see it is not a law but merely amendments to existing laws) laws via bammycare to enslave every man woman and child in this country.

corruption is the state of humanity tho, Rome was corrupt as hell, but managed to keep itself solvent by stealing form everyone they ever met for over half a millenium... they were really good at theft on a huge scale.

each of us has to decide for ourselves how much corruption we can tolerate within our sphere of influence and what price we'll pay to either avoid it or fix it. I don't want the govt telling me what to do, but when my neighbors burn their trash in the backyard and i can't open my windows from the smell of their fires that they are using to burn insulation off the wires they "scavenged" to sell for scrap? I want to be able to call the firemarshall and have him tell them to stop.. don't you?

as fisherman? i want to be able to keep catching some Tuna right? I don't want some 700 foot trawler catching every single one and selling it for cat food..

that's why i consider myself a "practical libertarian" as oppsed to what these Tparty peopel have been proposing.

I HATE BUREACRATS. mostly cuz they have thier hand out and expcet not to actaully roll up their sleeves... thay are like toll collectors who mostly didn't build the bridge they collect toll on...

in the last few years i have been exposed to serious govt corruption that doesn't amount to big dollar signs in any specific instance, but over the course of a decade adds to huge dollar amounts.

you would not beleive how hard it is to take proper actions to repair this bad behavior or how insidious and pervasive the bad behavior really is..

in the end almost all of govt corruption is simple greed and laziness on ht epar tof bureacrats. Is it Conspiracy? Yes, because in it's technical definition conspiracy ONLY requires that tow people get together and make plan to commit whatever they are going to do...

BUT IMO, there isn't some Illuminati-type Plot to take over the world. And i enjoy conspiracy theory specualtion IMMENSELY... There is always some truth in it, but the real truth is that peopel do look out for themsleves first; their family second and their friends third; after that? looking out for others tends to become problematic.

It's really hard to get a scared horse out of a barb-wire fence. They are just as likely to try to kick you and get themselves more entanlged if they miss you and if they kick you too? well, you know what the point is.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Relentless.
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Yeah, I know what your point is, and always have.

I do see this as an Illuminati plot. Pure and simple. I didn't always.. In fact I fought the realization for quite a while.. But I can't anymore. Those in control of the corporation we think is a government are pure evil. They are "The" bloodline and they have been directing this whole thing since the last time we blew ourselves up. (can't read Sanskrit myself but others translated it)

The goal is total control.. always has been, always will.

It is evidenced clearly in what bammycare is. I don't give a crap about bammycare. To me it's just one more piece to the puzzle.

Bammycare is just the next step.
First if you get it, then the costs are commonly known as crippling.
Second, if you don't then they fine you and at some point will declare you a criminal.

Both work just fine for them because it is control for them either way.

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Lockman
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Obama today....if you can't get on the website call the 800 number....only problem is after listening to the introduction your refured to the web site...
Gov't in action...

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Let's Go METS!!!

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