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Author Topic: looks ike repubs and dems found something they agree on
raybond
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COMMENTARY | In an evening vote, the U.S. Senate approved the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 Thursday, according to USAToday.com, with high profile sections 1031 and 1032 intact. With all senators voting, the roll call was 93 favoring passage and 7 opposing. Senate.gov shows that three Democrats, three Republicans and one Independent opposed passage of the measure. It's apparent to me that the idea of the United States becoming a police state was not vile enough for those 93 senators.


Sections 1031 and 1032 empower the military to detain American citizens on United States soil indefinitely. Although the stated intention of these sections indicates the intent is to allow the arrest and detention of terrorists linked to al-Qaeda, the wording is broad enough to allow the same treatment for anyone deemed to be a threat to national security.


Such broad wording for something that goes against the very rights given to each American by the Constitution, including representation and a speedy trial of peers, could be used very subversively in the hands of the wrong people.


Yes, it's true the country needs the NDAA to be approved, but at least three senators (Udall, Rand and Feinstein) proposed amendments to NDAA, Senate Bill 1867 to remove the indefinite detention wording applying to citizens in this country. Three times the Senate voted to allow what amounts to the military taking over the job of both civil law enforcement and the civil judiciary.


Sections 1031 and 1032 were opposed by CIA Director David Petraeus and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta; the military is not interested in taking on these additional responsibilities. All those who voted for passage of S.B.1867 must know something these two men and concerned citizens do not know.


The House of Representatives passed their own version of the NDAA before sending it to the Senate for a vote. The House bill did not contain sections 1031 or 1032; they were added by Senator Levin of Michigan as the sponsor. Now the two legislative bodies will have to hash out the differences before the bill can be sent to President Obama for consideration. There may yet be time for citizens to wield the power of their views with their elected officials.


Smack dab in the middle of the baby boomer generation , L.L. Woodard is a proud resident of "The Red Man" state. With what he hopes is an everyman's view of life's concerns both in his state and throughout the nation, Woodard presents facts and opinions based on common-sense solutions.
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Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

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rounder1
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Sounds like the patriot act 2.0.....

It is almost as if the government knows where things are heading and is taking steps to protect itself from the body that gives it its legitimacy in the first place.

Federal Government......Hal 9000

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"The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)

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glassman
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these guys in Dc are just a bunch of criminals - all of 'em...


habeus corpus is the basis of Freedom


i don't have that much of a problem with using a drone to kill US citizens*in another country* who is a terrorist. it would be a good idea to try them in absentia, but when you think it thru logically, they aren't going to come "home" and face trial anyway and trials in absentia are almost kangaroo courts anyway....

I do have problems when a US citizen is here on US soil and thrown in jail without a trial. terrorism by US citizen should be most closely considered as Treason IMO...



U.S. Constitution


Article III
Section 3.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.


Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.


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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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CashCowMoo
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Our rights and liberties are being slowly peeled off the onion.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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jordanreed
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y,know...Ive been on this planet for awhile, and I don't feel like my rights are any different then they were when I was a kid. Maybe a couple of things are more infringed upon, but I don't feel less free. Having to wear a seat belt is about the only thing I can think of..but I still don't wear it. Oh, smoking is another one...but those are more common sense type things. I know there are things in the patriot act (haven't read it, only hearsay), but they don't affect my tiny existence ....lets try to name things that have made you less free in your daily life.

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jordan

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
...lets try to name things that have made you less free in your daily life.

Well for starters...

I am not free to keep the money that I earn

I am not free to carry a weapon wherever I feel I need to, to protect myself

I am not free to use the substances I choose

I am not free to drive a vehicle without paying for insurance

I am not free to take an animal or fish for food without purchasing a license

I am not free to drive a motorcycle without a helmet

and unlike my congressmen/women, I don't have the freedom to purchase stocks of companies that I have "insider information" on

that's just off the top of my head...

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It's all in the timing...

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
y,know...Ive been on this planet for awhile, and I don't feel like my rights are any different then they were when I was a kid. Maybe a couple of things are more infringed upon, but I don't feel less free. Having to wear a seat belt is about the only thing I can think of..but I still don't wear it. Oh, smoking is another one...but those are more common sense type things. I know there are things in the patriot act (haven't read it, only hearsay), but they don't affect my tiny existence ....lets try to name things that have made you less free in your daily life.

"but they don't affect my tiny existence"

They dont?

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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jordanreed
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quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
...lets try to name things that have made you less free in your daily life.

Well for starters...

I am not free to keep the money that I earn

I am not free to carry a weapon wherever I feel I need to, to protect myself

I am not free to use the substances I choose

I am not free to drive a vehicle without paying for insurance

I am not free to take an animal or fish for food without purchasing a license

I am not free to drive a motorcycle without a helmet

and unlike my congressmen/women, I don't have the freedom to purchase stocks of companies that I have "insider information" on

that's just off the top of my head...

OK...none of those have affected me at all....in mn you can still ride a cycle without a helmet...Ive always bought a fishing license..could never carry a gun as long as vie been alive,don't need to or want to..been buying car insurance for 33 years..i keep the same amount of money i earn as i always have...what substances cant you use that you want to?,,and Ive always consumed anything i wanted,,so doesn't affect me

so none of those have changed.....


next!!??

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jordan

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jordanreed
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and Ill tell you something else...if lots of people start walking around with a gun strapped on, you WILL see the law change to stop that insanity almost instantly!!..I guarandamtee it!!

and how long have you been trading stocks and when was the last time you purchased stock with insider info?? Never??thought so... so that doesn't affect you either.

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jordan

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jordanreed
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
y,know...Ive been on this planet for awhile, and I don't feel like my rights are any different then they were when I was a kid. Maybe a couple of things are more infringed upon, but I don't feel less free. Having to wear a seat belt is about the only thing I can think of..but I still don't wear it. Oh, smoking is another one...but those are more common sense type things. I know there are things in the patriot act (haven't read it, only hearsay), but they don't affect my tiny existence ....lets try to name things that have made you less free in your daily life.

"but they don't affect my tiny existence"

They dont?

No...tell me how they have and i will answer

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jordan

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
and Ill tell you something else...if lots of people start walking around with a gun strapped on, you WILL see the law change to stop that insanity almost instantly!!..I guarandamtee it!!

JR...you are living in dreamland... There ARE lots of people walking around with a gun strapped on...both law abiding citizens and criminals. When you and your idealist cronies can convince all the "bad guys" in this country to stop carrying guns and to quit committing crimes...then I will have no reason to carry one...Until then, I should be allowed, without penalty, to protect myself wherever I go.

quote:
and how long have you been trading stocks and when was the last time you purchased stock with insider info?? Never??thought so... so that doesn't affect you either.
I've been trading stocks for 25+ years and I have never purchased stock with insider information...WHY? because it is unfair to others and it is against the law...as it should be

The question is...Why aren't our lawmakers forced to abide by the same laws that we are?

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It's all in the timing...

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jordanreed
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Thats a great question;;

now as for the gun crap...of course criminals carry guns..always have...but that doesn't change what i said..we were talking about freedoms taken away during our lifetime. That isn't one of them and it doesn't affect me or you for that matter. When was the last time you had to pull your gun to protect yourself? and I don't mean from that pesky deer. Are you allowed to carry a gun now? yes you are,,so what freedom has been taken away from you in your lifetime?...none

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jordan

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
Thats a great question;;

now as for the gun crap...of course criminals carry guns..always have...but that doesn't change what i said..we were talking about freedoms taken away during our lifetime. That isn't one of them and it doesn't affect me or you for that matter. When was the last time you had to pull your gun to protect yourself? and I don't mean from that pesky deer. Are you allowed to carry a gun now? yes you are,,so what freedom has been taken away from you in your lifetime?...none

Yes, I am allowed to carry a gun, but I am not allowed to carry it wherever I go...

So yes, my freedom to protect myself WHEREVER I go has been taken from me.

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It's all in the timing...

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jordanreed
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when did you have that freedom?

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jordan

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buckstalker
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BTW...the last time I had to "pull my gun" to protect myself was 2 weeks ago in Detroit...

It certainly saved my wallet and probably saved my life...

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It's all in the timing...

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jordanreed
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quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
BTW...the last time I had to "pull my gun" to protect myself was 2 weeks ago in Detroit...

It certainly saved my wallet and probably saved my life...

Lets hear about it..sounds interesting...and you were carrying, eh. so were you arrested?..No??...sounds pretty free to me

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jordan

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buckstalker
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Jordan...do you feel that just because your freedoms were taken away BEFORE you were born, that those freedoms aren't important?

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It's all in the timing...

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jordanreed
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its all i know..you too. I wish I could grow weed in my yard,,i wish i could walk around naked in public,,,i wish i could smoke in a niteclub,,but its no big deal. Tell me what you want to do that you cant because its against the law.

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jordan

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
BTW...the last time I had to "pull my gun" to protect myself was 2 weeks ago in Detroit...

It certainly saved my wallet and probably saved my life...

Lets hear about it..sounds interesting...and you were carrying, eh. so were you arrested?..No??...sounds pretty free to me
Nothing interesting about it...just freakin scary.
And no, I wasn't arrested because the law had nothing to do with it...you see cops can't prevent crimes, they can only respond to them.

If I would have been in a no-carry zone, I would not have been carrying because I am a law abiding citizen. I most certainly would have been robbed and there is a good possibility that I could have been killed...in which case seriously violates my freedom to live...

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It's all in the timing...

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jordanreed
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quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
BTW...the last time I had to "pull my gun" to protect myself was 2 weeks ago in Detroit...

It certainly saved my wallet and probably saved my life...

Lets hear about it..sounds interesting...and you were carrying, eh. so were you arrested?..No??...sounds pretty free to me
Nothing interesting about it...just freakin scary.
And no, I wasn't arrested because the law had nothing to do with it...you see cops can't prevent crimes, they can only respond to them.

If I would have been in a no-carry zone, I would not have been carrying because I am a law abiding citizen. I most certainly would have been robbed and there is a good possibility that I could have been killed...in which case seriously violates my freedom to live...

did the robber have a gun?

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jordan

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glassman
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jordan, jus cuz you don't feel it, doesn't mean anything.

a good example is that here in MS sudafed is now prescription only. i happen to need sudafed regularly. it works and i live in an area where the crop dusting is so common that everybody has moderate to severe allergy problems all the time. Heck i see so many people wearing dust masks to mow their lawns i cannot beleive it.

sudafed is used to make meth, so i know why they did it, but a drug that is cheap, like 20 cents per dose now costs 10$ cuz the doctors want a visit to write the script. My insurance will go up again cuz of it too...

this is just hte tip of the iceberg.

suspension of habeus corpus because you got on a terrosit list is totally against everything our Constition is about. It goes all the way back in English Common Law almost to the Magna Carta.


sure, you don't feel that, but somedday your kids might simply cuz they logged onto the wrong web page one time. think about it.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
jordan, jus cuz you don't feel it, doesn't mean anything.

a good example is that here in MS sudafed is now prescription only. i happen to need sudafed regularly. it works and i live in an area where the crop dusting is so common that everybody has moderate to severe allergy problems all the time. Heck i see so many people wearing dust masks to mow their lawns i cannot beleive it.

sudafed is used to make meth, so i know why they did it, but a drug that is cheap, like 20 cents per dose now costs 10$ cuz the doctors want a visit to write the script. My insurance will go up again cuz of it too...

this is just hte tip of the iceberg.

suspension of habeus corpus because you got on a terrosit list is totally against everything our Constition is about. It goes all the way back in English Common Law almost to the Magna Carta.


sure, you don't feel that, but somedday your kids might simply cuz they logged onto the wrong web page one time. think about it.

Your allergies aside...that is not what he was talking about. Besides preventing people from making meth...how are you affected by these so called loss of freedoms? Think hard and be honest.

Unless you miss carrying around the old AK-47...or
being inconveinienced by getting script for your Sudafed, what impact have you felt. Again...JR is referring to daily life impact for YOU personally. Run down the list please.

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It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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glassman
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.how are you affected by these so called loss of freedoms? Think hard and be honest.


cash out of my pocket and time out of my life (three hours for doctor visit) are both losses of freedom. not even thinking hard.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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suspension of habeus corpus should make everyone angry. this notion that a bureaucrat can put someone on a list and they can be detained indefintely without trial is UnAmerican

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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jordanreed
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of course it makes us angry..listen,,i am all about keeping the fukking guvment out of my life,,its my business,,and I want to live free,,,but what I am saying is I can pretty much do what I want..I know right from wrong, am moral , don't hurt anyone.....my lifes freedoms have been consistent the last 58 yrs. So I haven't felt much loss of freedom. People talk about how much we've lost over the last few years, but when asked how your daily life has been affectedand changed...they have no answer. Big just stated a few things but I think he is wrong on those things. the helmet,fishing lisece,inside trades,insurance,substances ets....all haven't changed.. ,,or had any loss of freedoms felt ...the helmet law has but only if you are under17 must you wear one. Some substances now are illegal but that doesn't affect me either. .....

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jordan

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glassman
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i understand what you are saying, not much has changed for most of us.

what concerns me is how few people are speaking up about this.

i can easily imagine a time not too far away from here and now where just speaking up will get you on "the list". that's how it happens- slowly...

the terrorists want to kill US, but relistically speaking we are doing the most damage to ourselves in response to them. heck i don't even consider flying anymore unless there's no choice [Wink]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
its all i know..you too. I wish I could grow weed in my yard,,i wish i could walk around naked in public,,,i wish i could smoke in a niteclub,,but its no big deal. Tell me what you want to do that you cant because its against the law.

You should be able to grow weed in your yard for your own personal consumption...WHY can't you and WHERE in the constitution does it say you can't

BTW...weed was legal when you were born and your freedom to grow/smoke it has been taken away by lawmakers with absolutely no constitutional basis

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

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jordanreed
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pot was illegal in all states by the 1930s

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jordan

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IWISHIHAD
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I definately do not go along with the idea that if a problem doesn't effect me then there is no problem.

The problem with that concept is that someday it might effect me, then it could be way late to do anything about it.

We have been seeing that in several of our other topics, one of which is talking about the protests and big money.


Then again maybe i am just getting in that age bracket where i have seen to many freedoms sometimes very small ones slip away, ones that i was able to enjoy when i was younger.

Maybe some areas of the country things are a lot less restrictive than where i have lived the last 40+ years, or maybe they have been a lot more restrictive in other areas so people don't know the difference or the change.

I could probably make a fairly large list of some of things that have affected me and some that haven't, but they still bother me either way and they could definately effect me if my four leaf clover weakens.

One that comes to mind quickly is seeing younger people and homeless people constantly being searched and sometimes handcuffed then being let go after a short period of time.

I could probably go on for a long time but i might have everyone turn off their computers.


=
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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
pot was illegal in all states by the 1930s

interestingly, i just found out cuz of this discussion that in MS:

person found possessing or using marijuana can suffer from various penalties. When a person is found possessing or using 30g or less marijuana for the first time, he or she can be fined between $100 and $250. In fact, this is considered as misdemeanor and has no arrest.

Marijuana up to 250g possessed or used by anyone in Mississippi is called felony



i never even knew that....

the Constitution provides the US Govt (not states) no right to restrict drugs or alcohol. we signed a treaty to develop Federal anti-drug laws, and the SCOTUS said in 2005 that the Commerce Clause give the Feds the rights to control drugs.

Oddly, they once knew it took an ammendment to control alcohol and drugs, but then they changed their mind....

in MS? it's still illegal to brew your own beer... ain't that a hoot? i've brewed a few batches but not since i moved here...

when i was a teenager? i used to brew my own hard cider in my closet [Big Grin]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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i am thinking i will vote for Ron Paul in the primaries here specifically because of his "prohibition stance".

i know he's crackpot, but i like what he brings to the table in the form of Libertarianism.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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jordanreed
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Ya..I like ron Paul too seems to be the most common sense guy out there

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jordan

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
pot was illegal in all states by the 1930s

Jordan...I was messing with you about your age

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It's all in the timing...

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
i am thinking i will vote for Ron Paul in the primaries here specifically because of his "prohibition stance".

i know he's crackpot, but i like what he brings to the table in the form of Libertarianism.

Glass...why do you view Paul as a "crackpot"?

I know the mainstream media has labeled him as such, but I don't see it when I listen to him speak.

I watched the debate in Ohio last night and Paul seemed to me to be the only genuine person up there...the rest were like listening to wind up dolls with canned messages.

I wouldn't waste my time voting for anyone else...

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It's all in the timing...

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jordanreed
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agreed~

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jordan

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