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glassman
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Who is the boss

When the body was first made, all the parts wanted to be the boss.

The brain said, "since I control everything and do all the thinking, I should be the boss."

The feet said, "since I carry man where he wants to go and get him in position to do what the brain wants, then I should be the boss."

The hands said, "since I must do all the work and earn all the money to keep the rest of you going, I should be the boss."

And so it went with the eyes, the heart, the lungs, and all the other parts of the body, each giving the reason why they should be the boss.

Finally, the asshole spoke up and said it was going to be the boss.

All the other parts laughed and laughed at the idea of the asshole being the boss. The asshole got so angry that he blocked himself off and refused to function.

Soon the brain was feverish and could barely think, the feet felt like lead weights and was almost too weak to drag the body anywhere, the eyes grew bleary, and the hands hung useless at the sides. All pleaded with the brain to let the asshole be declared the boss.

And so it happened; all the other parts did all the work and the asshole just bossed and passed out a lot of crap.

THE MORAL: You don't have to be a brain to be a boss, just an old asshole.

Alternate moral: No matter how well things are going, it can all be shut down by a single asshole.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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the house of representatives has 435 members- 60 of them are Tparty Caucus Mambers, and their leader is Michelle Bachman who is runnning for President-


that's not exactly representative of the American People like i keep hearing them say, unless of course Michelle can win the presidency, then they can cut all they want-

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
the house of representatives has 435 members- 60 of them are Tparty Caucus Mambers, and their leader is Michelle Bachman who is runnning for President-


that's not exactly representative of the American People like i keep hearing them say, unless of course Michelle can win the presidency, then they can cut all they want-

How is this for your Vice President. You know, blowhard Biden, the one in charge of ensuring there is not "one dollar of stimulus wasted" and with all his criticism of everyone who opposes Obama...this comes out. Then again, im sure we can give him a pass because SOMEONE somewhere in the past did it too and because someone else did it makes it right...seems to be the justification for this administration. They do something messed up...revert back to Bush and blame everything on him.


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/joe-biden-collecting-rent-secret-194812366.ht ml


Joe Biden is a landlord to the Secret Service.

That's right.

The Washington Times reports that Biden has collected $13,200 from the Secret Service since April to rent a cottage adjacent to his Wilmington, Del., home and continues to charge the agency rent. The Secret Service has agreed to pay $2,200 per month for use of the house in order to provide security to the Biden family, according to Edwin M. Donovan, special agent in charge at the Secret Service's Office of Government and Public Affairs in Washington.

(By the way, that's no discount on the rent--the Times reports that's the amount paid by the previous tenant.)

Some of the watchdog types interviewed by the Times questioned whether the agreement is appropriate, especially given Biden's deficit reduction leadership role. Leslie Paige, spokeswoman for Citizens Against Government Waste, said there's no question Biden deserves protection, "but this arrangement seems bizarre to me."

"You'd think the vice president, who shepherded the deficit committee, would think twice about charging the Secret Service rent. Why would he need the money? I don't get it."

The agency says it is a unique situation. "We don't pay rent to any other protectees," Donovan told The Ticket, but he added that the agency had wanted to be in close proximity to the vice president's house. Officials had been renting other properties in the area when Biden's cottage tenant moved out. So, the Secret Service reached out.

"The cottage was an existing rental property at the time the Secret Service signed its lease," Kendra Barkoff, press secretary for the vice president, informed the newspaper and wrote in an email to The Ticket.

Do we sense an Onion spoof in the making?

UPDATE 6:00PM EST: Story updated to add attribution to Edwin M. Donovan and statement from Kendra Barkoff.

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jordanreed
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...and what has this to do with this thread? refusing to address glassmans post and continuing on with your own agenda is exactly what glass is talking about!!...lol...

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jordan

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CashCowMoo
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You do it too Jordan. Anyways, so the debt right? 2.4 TRILLION IN NEW DEBT? Thats what is going to save our country? Wow the American people have a lot to celebrate!

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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glassman
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cash, the SS would pay that if they lived in the next house over and much more in hotel rooms down th estreet aways... they save money the closer they are to teh "target" they are protecting...

for Biden to NOT rent it to someone else would cost him the money, so he would be losing the rent if he "gave" it to them (of course he c/Should take that loss as a tax writeoff if he did, righ? i mean ignioring a tax writeoff is unAmerican right? so there's no real loss or gain either way except that the SS is closer to their protectee )...

that's called Business, and the TParty has no clue.


i assume you gathered this from a TParty based blog cash so it's just another perfect example of the lack of logic the TParty represents.


the TParyt just had their ass handed to them in this budget deal. i know they are all cheering themselves on in the news RIGHT NOW, but watch how this plays out over the next 6 moths when people start figuring what they have lost, and when the "supercommittee" convenes....

the TParty should get 1 seat on it only- based on %ages of elected reps [Wink]

the reality of the situation is that the TParty is a bunch blowhards. they keep repeating a couple of slogans and don't DO anything.

in th enext 6 months? you will see the Dems blaming the Tparty for not working jobs legislation and the loss of Govt jobs which will have negative impact on jobs numbers... it's lose lose for the TParty, and htey are marginalising themselves intentionally? [BadOne]

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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CashCowMoo
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Of course the TP does not know whats best right at the moment. Here is the thing though, why is everyone all over the tea party when the most liberal senator is now our president, and the dems control the senate? I mean seriously, how many more excuses and free passes is this administration going to get when unemployment is up, jobs are less, debt is skyrocketing...I mean we have some serious problems that you would have never thought would be once Obama got elected and pre-stimulus pump and dump.

Markets are down, and its not looking good at all. Its just getting worse and worse, and yet...somehow this is the tea party's fault, or GW Bush's fault. When is unemployment going to go back under 8%? Will it ever? The EPA is shutting down industry from West Virginia to Texas. Shutting down power plants, trying to shut down the permian basin, the gulf moratorium, navajo power plant shut downs, the list goes on.

I would not have minded if they let the tax rates go back to clinton era levels. Here is the thing, Obama sloshed on new backdoor taxes so when looking at it in totality its not good. Why do we have to have higher taxes to keep up the pace with spending?

I have come to the conclusion that NEITHER party is going to save us. Both are so foul and corrupted with special interests (NOT JUST "BIG OIL" either). The Democrats are bought by big business and healthcare too, so dont go saying they have the answer. They are just as crooked as anyone else.

This sucks!

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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raybond
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Cash find a women have some children and then the world will look different to you and you might make sense

--------------------
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Of course the TP does not know whats best right at the moment. Here is the thing though, why is everyone all over the tea party when the most liberal senator is now our president, and the dems control the senate? I mean seriously, how many more excuses and free passes is this administration going to get when unemployment is up, jobs are less, debt is skyrocketing...I mean we have some serious problems that you would have never thought would be once Obama got elected and pre-stimulus pump and dump.

Markets are down, and its not looking good at all. Its just getting worse and worse, and yet...somehow this is the tea party's fault, or GW Bush's fault. When is unemployment going to go back under 8%? Will it ever? The EPA is shutting down industry from West Virginia to Texas. Shutting down power plants, trying to shut down the permian basin, the gulf moratorium, navajo power plant shut downs, the list goes on.

I would not have minded if they let the tax rates go back to clinton era levels. Here is the thing, Obama sloshed on new backdoor taxes so when looking at it in totality its not good. Why do we have to have higher taxes to keep up the pace with spending?

I have come to the conclusion that NEITHER party is going to save us. Both are so foul and corrupted with special interests (NOT JUST "BIG OIL" either). The Democrats are bought by big business and healthcare too, so dont go saying they have the answer. They are just as crooked as anyone else.

This sucks!

Your questions don't even make sense--much less your assertions.

Maybe you should try one question, or one assertion, at a time.

Otherwise, to adults, you come off as "throwing a tantrum."

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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the Constitution clearly places the Budget issues on the Congress,and the TParty claims they want to "get back to it, so here's what it says exactly:

Article I

Section 8.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.


the President is not "in charge of creating jobs" or most any of the other crap that they take credit for, and get blamed for.


The TParty has been running around lying about why we are in debt and in trouble. The GOP in general likes to blame Obama for the Debt but when i look for the bills Obama signed that created the Debt? i can find only a couple. and NONE of them were written as Executive Orders. They are Congressiaonlly written and approved bills that he signed.

If you go to "Intellecualtlly Oriented" Conservative groups for information? They admit that almost all of the Obama spending is spending he inherited from the Bush GOP Congress- that's the medicare drug benefits plan, the wars and TARP (which Bush asked for and signed as he left office, leaving the pricetag on Obama's desk.

What Oabma did spend monay on was the 900 billion stimulsu plan that kepts millions of jobs in place even tho it was 400 billion in TAX CUTS! just like the GOP claims they like, Obama asked for it and got it. Then h easked for extended unemployment checks which we are still paying. Other than that? The GOP Owns most of the debt.


Now, tell me cash, what HAS the GOP and the TParty doen to create one single job? NOTHING! not one damn thing.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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CashCowMoo
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US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury

US debt shot up $238 billion to reach 100 percent of gross domestic project after the government's debt ceiling was lifted, Treasury figures showed Wednesday.


http://news.yahoo.com/us-aaa-rating-still-under-threat-204040123.html


More good news, right?

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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glassman
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no cash it's not good news. i started beching about the Debt day one here. I pointed out that this is where Bush was DELIBERATELY taking US long before he left office.

i beached when Dubya and Delay and Frist (all GOPs running hte country) began sending us those Checks back in 03,,

they BORROWED cash and mailed it to US and Bush got on TV and told US to do your patriotic duty and go shopping and buy Chinese and Korean big screen TVs to "fix" the economy- do you remember that? we are still paying for it today.

none of this is good. The facts are not in question they are just ignored.

we do have the TParty to thank for rubbing our noses in the debt, but their solution is literally the next Great Depression.

You cannot file for bankruptcy, and fire 40% of the govt to get US out of this mess.

A balanced budget amnedment sounds good if you refuse to think about the way it will crash the economy and leave US unable to defend ourselves in any meaningful way


IF the TParty would stop blaming the wrong people for where we are? If the TParty would propose severe and even Draconain measures to stop Govt waste fraud and abuse? I would support that.

But to fire ANYBODY in the Govt right now is the nuclear option. Moslty because a s workforce? The uS govt is the most highly trained and skilled group of people on the PLANET. The people out of work right now do not want to be competing against them i garantee you that. I cannot find figures, but my bet would be that they average schooling just short of a masters degree.

The TParty is literally behving like pre-schoolers in college.

Now i know people don't want to blame Bush anymore cuz Obama has been in there for two whole years, but Obama most ceratinly did address our single biggest economic issue facing our country when he was lected on the premise that he would work to refom helath care. The TParty twisted that argument into something it was not and gained political momnetum by lying about it.

We were already screwed by the end of '07, and we will be paying for this until 2020 or even forever at this rate. There are som thing that cannot be fixed, and this will not be fixed until SOMEBODY starts looking at our trade deficit and fixes that first. I don't see anybody doing that.

BTW? this looks an awful lot like the second dip that i have been expecting for the last two years, and what has been unusual is that it took this long to hit. If it is? Look out below, this will be worse than the last dip cuz it took so long to build strength, and the trigger was most defintely the TParty and their desire to crash the economy, everyone expects them to accomlpsh that goal now, it will take some time for them to get'er done, but nobody wants to be stuck when they do accomplish their stated goal.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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here's the themesong of the TParty IMO:

comeon party people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKhN0gh0kjY

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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SeekingFreedom
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quote:
But to fire ANYBODY in the Govt right now is the nuclear option. Moslty because a s workforce? The uS govt is the most highly trained and skilled group of people on the PLANET. The people out of work right now do not want to be competing against them i garantee you that. I cannot find figures, but my bet would be that they average schooling just short of a masters degree.


I've had this discussion with my brother(works at the IRS) many times,Glass. Here is my biggest concern about how many people are working directly for Uncle Sam (and how much they get paid)...

As much as we need them...they do not produce wealth...they only consume it via tax dollars. You can make the arguement that without them wealth generation isn't possible (which many here have in one way or another), but the end result is that every person working for the government is one person NOT generating wealth for the economy. The global market is increasingly becoming a zero sum game (if you don't believe that it always was one as I do), in such a situation, you need your best and brightest getting the necessary resources for your team...not siphoning off what resources you have already.

--------------------
/weepforthenation

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glassman
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they do not produce wealth...they only consume it via tax dollars.

that's the dumbest thing you've ever posted.

we would not have computers right now if it was not for the govt.

no internet, no roads, no power gird, no power plants...


you my friend have drank the TParty koolaid and are trippin.

 -

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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just for starters SF? i want you to read this webpage:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good

Common examples of public goods include: defense, public fireworks, lighthouses, clean air and other environmental goods, and information goods, such as software development, authorship, and invention. Some goods (such as orphan drugs) require special governmental incentives to be produced, but can't be classified as public goods since they don't fulfill the above requirements (Non-excludable and non-rivalrous.) Law enforcement, streets, libraries, museums, and education are commonly misclassified as public goods, but they are technically classified in economic terms as quasi-public goods because excludability is possible, but they do still fit some of the characteristics of public goods. [5]

The provision of a lighthouse has often been used as the standard example of a public good, since it is difficult to exclude ships from using its services. No ship's use detracts from that of others, but since most of the benefit of a lighthouse accrues to ships using particular ports, lighthouse maintenance fees can often profitably be bundled with port fees (Ronald Coase, The Lighthouse in Economics 1974). This has been sufficient to fund actual lighthouses.


the notion that we can have a complicated society (and we do) without even a system of standard weights and measures was not lost on the Founders. It's insnae to think we don't get value form our govt. Does the Govt waste money? Of course, but so do the 3 in 4 private businiesses that start and fail every single day [Wink] The Govt doesn't have the "luxury" to fail ever...

you could not begin to afford homewoners insurance ever if you didn't have fire hydrants a and team of fighters to operate it...

the list of economic needs supplied by govt is endless. The problem is nobody wants to pay the true cost of supplying those needs...

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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SeekingFreedom
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Either you misunderstood my post or you're ignoring it, Glass. Reread it if you would because I'm making an important point which both parties are dancing around in an effort to please their respective bases....


As much as we need them...they do not produce wealth...they only consume it via tax dollars. You can make the arguement that without them wealth generation isn't possible (which many here have in one way or another), but the end result is that every person working for the government is one person NOT generating wealth for the economy.


We NEED firemen. We NEED the police. We NEED the Armed Services. We NEED a body of folks that help keep this 'civilization', well, civilized.

But none of these people generate wealth by the generally accepted definition. All of the items mentioned in the wiki link are important (at least for the sake of this particular discussion); however, all of them consume resources without generating wealth apart from taking yet more tax dollars(ie toll roads, etc).

This is where we get into trouble being based on a service economy. We provide services without producing resources to trade. When other nations stop wanting our services (via tourism) our lack of exports (when compared to our consumed imports) make us a net losing economy.

In the same vein, the Government is 'service' based. It doesn't provide any hard resources to 'sell' to either it's own people or foreign nations. Even the mineral 'rights' it 'owns' is leased to private corporations that make the real profit from their use. I would challenge you to find a single government program that actually produces wealth through the production\creation of goods versus taxation for services.

To address your examples of computers and the internet I would submit that while the government may have shouldered the lion's share of the development costs (funded through tax dollars) the private sector is who took the ideas and made the millions, no, BILLIONS off of the ideas. It wasn't the Feds that sold computers to foreign nations, it was Apple. It wasn't the Feds that sold software to the world, it was Microsoft. While you can debate whether either Apple or Microsoft would have been able to do so without the Feds' research(and I'm pretty sure I can guess your position), it doesn't change the fact that while they 'created' wealth, the Government 'consumed' weath to fund the research in the first place.

Please don't misunderstand my position here. I'm definately NOT the hard-core libertarian who believes that Anarchy (or even Anarchy-light) is realisitic. We HAVE to have SOME Government. That governenment HAS to have some way to pay for the services it provides. That way is TAXES. Ergo...we have to pay taxes to have the services that we want our government to provide.

My point is that we have allowed the vote buying to set up such a monstrocity of beurocracy and cronism and entitlement that we cannot support it no matter how high we raise the taxes. The more taxes we consume the more programs the Feds try to provide. The more programs that the Feds try to provide the more tax money they need to consume. Do you really think that there will ever be a time when the Government will truly stop and say, "Hmmm, I think we've just about taken care of everyone's needs and wants with the money we have taken in. They can take it from here."?

The Government was supposed to be limited in its reach and specific in its duties. While we as a people have chosen\allowed it's role to expand, I feel that we have ignored the fact that sooner or later we will have to pay for the things we've asked for. IMO, that is what the TParty has been trying to say...that time is now, before we simply CAN'T.

--------------------
/weepforthenation

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
no cash it's not good news. i started beching about the Debt day one here. I pointed out that this is where Bush was DELIBERATELY taking US long before he left office.

i beached when Dubya and Delay and Frist (all GOPs running hte country) began sending us those Checks back in 03,,

they BORROWED cash and mailed it to US and Bush got on TV and told US to do your patriotic duty and go shopping and buy Chinese and Korean big screen TVs to "fix" the economy- do you remember that? we are still paying for it today.

none of this is good. The facts are not in question they are just ignored.

we do have the TParty to thank for rubbing our noses in the debt, but their solution is literally the next Great Depression.

You cannot file for bankruptcy, and fire 40% of the govt to get US out of this mess.

A balanced budget amnedment sounds good if you refuse to think about the way it will crash the economy and leave US unable to defend ourselves in any meaningful way


IF the TParty would stop blaming the wrong people for where we are? If the TParty would propose severe and even Draconain measures to stop Govt waste fraud and abuse? I would support that.

But to fire ANYBODY in the Govt right now is the nuclear option. Moslty because a s workforce? The uS govt is the most highly trained and skilled group of people on the PLANET. The people out of work right now do not want to be competing against them i garantee you that. I cannot find figures, but my bet would be that they average schooling just short of a masters degree.

The TParty is literally behving like pre-schoolers in college.

Now i know people don't want to blame Bush anymore cuz Obama has been in there for two whole years, but Obama most ceratinly did address our single biggest economic issue facing our country when he was lected on the premise that he would work to refom helath care. The TParty twisted that argument into something it was not and gained political momnetum by lying about it.

We were already screwed by the end of '07, and we will be paying for this until 2020 or even forever at this rate. There are som thing that cannot be fixed, and this will not be fixed until SOMEBODY starts looking at our trade deficit and fixes that first. I don't see anybody doing that.

BTW? this looks an awful lot like the second dip that i have been expecting for the last two years, and what has been unusual is that it took this long to hit. If it is? Look out below, this will be worse than the last dip cuz it took so long to build strength, and the trigger was most defintely the TParty and their desire to crash the economy, everyone expects them to accomlpsh that goal now, it will take some time for them to get'er done, but nobody wants to be stuck when they do accomplish their stated goal.

You cant stop talking about Bush can you? We all know he wasnt perfect, it doest give the President who came after him a 4 year pass of broken promises.

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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SeekingFreedom
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From one of the links in your wiki article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem

In economics, collective bargaining, psychology and political science, a free rider (or freeloader) is someone who consumes a resource without paying for it, or pays less than the full cost. The free rider problem is the question of how to limit free riding (or its negative effects). Free riding is usually considered to be an economic problem only when it leads to the non-production or under-production of a public good (and thus to Pareto inefficiency), or when it leads to the excessive use of a common property resource.

The term free rider comes from the example of someone using public transportation without paying the fare. If too many people do this, the system will not have enough money to operate. Another example of a free rider is someone who does not pay his or her share of taxes, which help pay for public goods that all citizens benefit from, such as: roads, water treatment plants and fire services.


To what extent are we, as a people, going to ask fewer and fewer people to accept a greater and greater portion of the burden of providing these 'public goods' while more and more are contributing nothing at all while enjoying the full benefits thereof?

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/weepforthenation

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:


To what extent are we, as a people, going to ask fewer and fewer people to accept a greater and greater portion of the burden of providing these 'public goods' while more and more are contributing nothing at all while enjoying the full benefits thereof?

You must be talking about the large corporations and ultra wealthy that do not pay their fair share in taxes because of offshore safe havens and loopholes, yet they enjoy all the "public goods" that the working class provides...Right?

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

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Upside
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quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:


To what extent are we, as a people, going to ask fewer and fewer people to accept a greater and greater portion of the burden of providing these 'public goods' while more and more are contributing nothing at all while enjoying the full benefits thereof?

You must be talking about the large corporations and ultra wealthy that do not pay their fair share in taxes because of offshore safe havens and loopholes, yet they enjoy all the "public goods" that the working class provides...Right?
But, if that's what you believe is happening why are you faulting the corporations and wealthy individuals?

If you could find a way to reduce your tax liability to zero wouldn't you do it? Of course you would so shouldn't your focus be on those that are providing the "safe havens and loopholes" rather than those that are legally taking advantage of them? So they have something that you don't, it's not their fault is it?

If your mindset is that the tax system is unfair or biased then take on those that make it that way, not those who take advantage of what's given them.

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T e x
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lol, it's not exactly "given" to them--they pay good money for those lobbyists... [Big Grin]

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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they do not produce wealth..

hmmmm... you have prolly figgered out i'm a lazeefugger and that's why i try me bestest to use as fewer a wordz as i possablee cain to 'splain muself...

the creation of the internt did produce wealth, the power gird most soitanly does perduse wealth.. caint have neider one widout daguvinment...


here's a Government program that has paid for itself a million times over (created wealth for ranchers [Wink] ) :

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/timeline/worm.htm

that one is Prime Grade A Govt thru and thru- the USDA and them *******s at DOE and the friggin IAEA play footsee with the DEA as they spread them sterilised flies all over central america


the only reason you beleive that the govt doesn't create wealth is because you just don't know how it did.

I do because i grew up in the DC area, my dad worked at NASA in the 60's and at NIH in the 70's.. i know hundreds of people who have worked at the Govt who did contribute to the wealth of our nation and not a single one of them did it in politics... you think of "Govt" as politiicans, but it isn't, they are a buch of scum, and i feel loathing for most of them. You might note that the TParty is full of them too [Big Grin]

I do not work for the govmnt tho i have been enlisted and have contracted with the govt.

Government has grown too wasteful and has always been abused, i am not defnding ANY of that. I am saying that we need Govt and we desperately need it to be effctive and efficient.

I hear what you said specifially- it doens' produce antyhing and yet i know that is not true, i know for a fact that the CIA and the people who started building computers at IBM and the NSA were all one little club. I've met quite few of them, most of them are now geezing really bad and may not even remember their old jobs, but 20 years ago they were the brightest people on the planet. We have not stopped attracting those people to the Govt today and they are still leading the cutting edges in research and development.

any satelites in space without the govt? GPS? Weather? none of that creates wealth? LOL..

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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Upside is correct, any bsiness person worth a chit, will hire lobbyists if they can afford them and is responsible to their shareholders, whoever they may be, to take advantage of every law in their favor.

that is Capitalism and it is what works. However imperfeclty? it still works best.

on the other side of that? at what point do you poison your own well for profit? or maybe i should say- and STILL profit?

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
From one of the links in your wiki article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem

In economics, collective bargaining, psychology and political science, a free rider (or freeloader) is someone who consumes a resource without paying for it, or pays less than the full cost. The free rider problem is the question of how to limit free riding (or its negative effects). Free riding is usually considered to be an economic problem only when it leads to the non-production or under-production of a public good (and thus to Pareto inefficiency), or when it leads to the excessive use of a common property resource.

The term free rider comes from the example of someone using public transportation without paying the fare. If too many people do this, the system will not have enough money to operate. Another example of a free rider is someone who does not pay his or her share of taxes, which help pay for public goods that all citizens benefit from, such as: roads, water treatment plants and fire services.


To what extent are we, as a people, going to ask fewer and fewer people to accept a greater and greater portion of the burden of providing these 'public goods' while more and more are contributing nothing at all while enjoying the full benefits thereof?

this has been asked and answered so many times-

Why do people rob banks?

cuz that's where the moeny is [Wink]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
You cant stop talking about Bush can you? We all know he wasnt perfect, it doest give the President who came after him a 4 year pass of broken promises.

not when i am trying to make a point about how we got here and how things have changed.

The Bush tax cuts are called the Bush tax cuts for a reason buddy [Big Grin]

there is only so much a President can actually do... and all of them take more credit than the y deserve for the good and get more blame for the bad and vice versa depending on your party views...


there's things i would like to see Obama do. like force a free-floating currency agreement with China by import tariffs (which BTW) were how the Founders raised money anyway..


but people say that's "protectionism" and it would be bad, well this that we are in is bad and getting worse by the day..

i never agreed with the Bush tax cuts, i never wanted a tax rebate cheque, and that's my real point. Real Patriots Pay their money or their blood to defend the country, Bush offered a sleazy way out of that and now we are paying even more moeny for it than if we had bitten the "tax bullet" hard at first are we not?

you know the Quakers would not fight in the Revolution? they paid (in gold and silver)tho [Wink]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by Upside:


If you could find a way to reduce your tax liability to zero wouldn't you do it? Of course you would so shouldn't your focus be on those that are providing the "safe havens and loopholes" rather than those that are legally taking advantage of them? So they have something that you don't, it's not their fault is it?

If your mindset is that the tax system is unfair or biased then take on those that make it that way, not those who take advantage of what's given them.

BF...If I could find a way to reduce my tax liability to zero knowing that the financial burden would be put on my community, then HELL NO, I wouldn't do it...that would make me a self serving scumbag

The piece of the puzzle that you are missing is that the corporations and the ultra wealthy OWN the politicians, who in turn create the tax laws and loopholes that benefit their handlers...so in reality, the corporations and the ultra wealthy ARE the ones creating the tax laws and loopholes...knowing damn good and well that they are putting the burden on their communities...

THAT makes the corporations, the ultra wealthy and their puppet politicians self serving scumbags

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

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glassman
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buckstalkr is correct, the lobbyists are actually the ones that wrote most of those bill and the toady politicians only voted them in....

one littel favor here one little favor there and pretty soon? we are in debt for one whole year of GDP...


one other thing the lobbyists like to write in? most of these "regualtions" that small biz people complain about so much? i feel that pain too, but guess what? they were moslty written to favor big coproations who have high price d lawyers on retainer and they wrote them to make sure the littel guys cannot get a chance to grow up...

it's nothing for Exxon or Duke Energy or Enron when it was big to throw 500 grand at an environmental impact study, but a startup co? no friggin way [Wink]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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buckstalker
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If the lowlife politicians really wanted to get us out of this mess, it would be quite easy for them to do...

1. Tax every Chinese import that comes into this country, and I mean a 100% tax, until they either discontinue artificially deflating their own currency or until the trade deficit is zero

2. Outlaw lobbyists

So ask yourself this...WHY aren't they doing it?

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

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glassman
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lobbying is protected under freedom of speech..

as to taxing the Chinese? see the lobbyists [Big Grin]

sorry man, sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying.

i dunno what these fools were thinking? but i am pretty sure they got rich thinking it.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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buckstalker
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Yea...I guess it's better to watch your country disintegrate than it is to violate someones "freedom to lie and manipulate"

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

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T e x
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I brought up the lobbyists because, no, you can't outlaw free speech. But we *could* demand candidates that--almost no matter what else they promise--run on a pledge of campaign-finance reform.

That's where the whole chiterie flies offa' the track. No matter if the Supreme Court extremists want to consider corporations as persons, locking down the finance circus would eventually choke lobbyists on the vine.

Really? We don't even need expensive TV/radio spots anymore.

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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jordanreed
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Time for this ol boy to head underground...

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jordan

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