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Author Topic: Egypt....revolution?
The Bigfoot
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Will they successfully oust Mubarak?

Will the army stay peaceful? Will the police an riot brigades stay silent now that the army is in the streets?

What political structure will they shift to if the autocracy folds?

Will the political dissatisfaction spread to other countries beyond Tunisia and Egypt?

Is social media (facebook, twitter, allstocks and other bb's) truly the fuel causing these fires?


Significant actions taking place right now half a world away.

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CashCowMoo
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Here is the question I have...you know that internet kill switch they have there to shut it all down? Why is there a bill right now that would give our government that power? Oh, I am sure its a matter of "national security" just like it is for every other over reaching thing they want to do.

People who want to be head of CIA, NSA, FBI, etc have to have some sick minds or thoughts about control.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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SeekingFreedom
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quote:
Will the political dissatisfaction spread to other countries beyond Tunisia and Egypt?

My prediction...depends on how many get killed. If Eqypt cracks down on them HARD...no, it won't spread very quickly. If they topple Mubarak? Expect to see this in EVERY country with more than 15% (real) unemployment.

quote:
Is social media (facebook, twitter, allstocks and other bb's) truly the fuel causing these fires?
In a manner of speaking, yes. It gives people a sense of support for their actions(whether such support really exists or not). This is why Mubarak shut it down, to isolate them. The people know that alone they don't stand a chance of defeating the military\police. But if the international community supports them (or at least they believe they have that support) they will risk it.

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/weepforthenation

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CashCowMoo
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Man this is not looking good. Oil jumped $3.70 a barrel on Friday on this news, and could soar next week if the Suez Canal is in jeopardy.


Oh and here is an idea, cut off the 1 billion + in money we give them every year. All these countries just leach off us and we are paying for it.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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The Bigfoot
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I tend to think we should at the least reduce aid to all countries considering our economic problems. Maybe less so for our most immediate neighbors (Central and South America and the Island Nations).

Seems to me aid, whether monetary or in the form of goods like foodstuffs, gets absorbed by the corrupted too easily when it is government to government transfers. I would much rather those funds go to grants that get awarded out to micro-loan non-profits that will deal with individuals rather than institutions.

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The Bigfoot
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Iran cracked down hard. Held pro-government rallies at the same time as anti-government rallies to muddy the waters, cowed the public with strong shows of force, and jailed many opposition leaders and journalists. Iranian protests are quiet for the time being.

Tunisia the military backed the protesters and the president fled. The public still marches to get rid of the rest of the previous government administration.

Egypt it seems the military isn't choosing sides (as of yet) but is trying to keep death and destruction to a minimum. (I hope they keep this course.) President sacked his cabinet, appointed a Vice President for the first time, and is speaking of democrat reforms. Protesters are not mollified and want him out of the county post haste calling for an end of his 30 year rule.

In Algeria marchers are using the successful protests of nearby Tunisia-calling for democracy, a new government, and an end to the state of emergency that the country has existed under for the last 19 years.

Yemen...protests started after the president Saleh proposed a constitutional amendment that would allow him to run for re-election in 2013. 10's of thousands taking to the street in (so far) peaceful protests that are not met with much resistance though police watch closely. Interesting note about Yemen, more than 2/3rd of the population of Yemen is under the age of 24.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Here is the question I have...you know that internet kill switch they have there to shut it all down? Why is there a bill right now that would give our government that power? Oh, I am sure its a matter of "national security" just like it is for every other over reaching thing they want to do.

People who want to be head of CIA, NSA, FBI, etc have to have some sick minds or thoughts about control.

what is the sickness? i have been hearing the talk about th ekill switch too cash, but the 'thing" is? it's not clear that this really is a kill switch like htey use in China and other coutries.

trust me on this, the NSA has the full capabilty to kill the whole worlds internet already, and has had such since before 9-11.

to be honest? i am aboslutely positively sure that they could do it by simply sending data from all of their "gather ports" simultaneouly, it would not even require a special program. all they would have to do is constantly send out emails containing GIF files. The whole world internet would be clogged beyond capabilitiy and as long as they kept sending, nothing would work...


as to this bill? the prpagandists spreading the word calling it a kill switch are the most likely "sick ones" as in paranoid.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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here's the Seante fact sheet on the bill...

it's leibermans bill, and he's what? a "conservative democrat"? sheesh... the guy should have reitred when he lost his primary...


http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Press.MajorityNews&ContentRe cord_id=66c23959-5056-8059-7686-43a8307e966c



MYTH #1:
S. 3480 authorizes a “kill switch” that would allow the President to shut down the Internet.

REALITY:
Rather than granting a “kill switch,” S. 3480 would make it far less likely for a President to use the broad authority he already has in current law to take over communications networks.

Section 706 of the Communications Act of 1934 provides nearly unchecked authority to the President to “cause the closing of any facility or station for wire communication” and “authorize the use of control of any such facility or station” by the Federal government. Exercise of the authority requires no advance notification to Congress and can be authorized if the President proclaims that “a state or threat of war” exists. The authority can be exercised for up to six months after the “state or threat of war” has expired.

The Department of Homeland Security, in testimony before the Committee on June 15, 2010, indicated that Section 706 is one of the authorities the President would rely on if the nation were under a cyber attack.

S. 3480 would bring Presidential authority to respond to a major cyber attack into the 21st century by providing a precise, targeted, and focused way for the President to defend our most sensitive infrastructure.


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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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The Bigfoot
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Liberman is a butt and I am glad he has announced that he will not seek re-election after this term

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raybond
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MCcain refers to pro democratic movement in the mid east a virus


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FcnrxiAf3E8

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Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

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CashCowMoo
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This is getting crazy, how far do you think this will go?

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
This is getting crazy, how far do you think this will go?

all over the mideast and maybe farther...

when people see success? they will copy it...

the real issue is who are we going to put in charge next?

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CashCowMoo
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this looks like a good movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiEEn6C4Ca0&feature=player_embedded

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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Pagan
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Egypt's Mubarak steps down

By the CNN Wire Staff
February 11, 2011 11:53 a.m. EST

Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak resigned Friday, relinquishing power after three decades of iron-clad rule in the powerhouse nation of the Arab world.

Vice President Omar Suleiman announced the resignation on state television and said he was transferring authority to the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces to "run the affairs of the country."

Tens of thousands of emotional anti-government protesters erupted in deafening cheers on the streets of Cairo after the announcement.

"Egypt is free!" they chanted.

It was a moment anti-government protesters had been waiting for after 18 days of relentless demonstrations that called for Mubarak's departure.

U.S. President Barack Obama said he was notified of Mubarak's decision Friday morning and was closely watching the extraordinary developments unfold in Egypt, a key U.S. ally. He will make a statement Friday afternoon, the White House said.

A source with close connections to Persian Gulf government leaders told CNN that Mubarak had gone to the Red Sea resort town of Sharm el-Sheikh.

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It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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raybond
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Good by to the jerk as far as I am concerned.

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Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by raybond:
Good by to the jerk as far as I am concerned.

But now there is a power vacuum in one the normally most stable MidEast countries. And currently, power has been passed to the military. It will be interesting to see how all this unfolds over time.

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It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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CashCowMoo
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Now time to watch MSNBC and the sympathizers to the muslim brotherhood...because they are "not that bad" and "just want peace"

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Now time to watch MSNBC and the sympathizers to the muslim brotherhood...because they are "not that bad" and "just want peace"

Really? I mean really?!?! You are actually posting something that stupid? Seriously...all joking aside...you need help. There is something wrong with you. God bless...and I hope you seek out the help you so badly need. [Frown]

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It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Now time to watch MSNBC and the sympathizers to the muslim brotherhood...because they are "not that bad" and "just want peace"

Really? I mean really?!?! You are actually posting something that stupid? Seriously...all joking aside...you need help. There is something wrong with you. God bless...and I hope you seek out the help you so badly need. [Frown]
lighten up man, sheesh.
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Pagan
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Egypt's military dissolves parliament, suspends constitution

By the CNN Wire StaffFebruary 13, 2011
11:09 a.m. EST

Cairo, Egypt (CNN) -- Egypt's military dissolved parliament and will run the country for six months or until elections are held, it said in a statement Sunday, two days after President Hosni Mubarak resigned.

It is suspending the constitution and will appoint a committee to propose changes to it, the statement said, adding that the public will then get to vote on the amended constitution.

The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces can issue new laws during the transition period, according to the statement on state television.

The government is now reporting to the military high command in the same way it reported to Mubarak before he stepped down, the prime minister confirmed shortly before the military statement was read.

The restoration of security and normal life is the government's priority, Prime Minister Ahmed Shafiq said, as troops began trying to clear protesters from Tahrir Sqaure, the spiritual heart of the 18-day uprising that toppled Mubarak after 30 years.

That could take time, Shafiq acknowledged in his first comments to the press since Mubarak stepped down.

"The feeling of the lack of security which started when the situation began has to end," he said. "It will end gradually, but not as fast as we want."

He also said he was reviewing candidates to fill vacant government ministries, adding that no one who was not acceptable to the public would be appointed. His remarks were carried live on state television.

A prominent Egyptian activist credited with helping spark the revolution warned against taking too long.

"Biggest mistake now is to give the Egyptian people too little too slow. Restoring confidence requires a faster pace," Wael Ghonim said on Twitter.

Crowds of uniformed police officers joined demonstrations in Cairo on Sunday, with protesters carrying officers on their shoulders amid cheers of "police and people are one."

One policeman said they wanted higher pay, claiming that the army is paid four times as much as the police. Several hundred were protesting at the Ministry of the Interior, some in uniform and some in plain clothes.

The scene came as a contrast to the violent clashes between demonstrators and police that took place during the initial days of protests prior to Mubarak's resignation from the presidency.

But there were angry shouts from some in the crowd when members of the army tried to move people from Tahrir Square.

Tahrir appeared less crowded Sunday than in previous days, though some Egyptians have vowed to keep protesting until "Egypt is ruled by a civil government, not a military one."

But more signs of normalcy are sprouting up on the first regular work day without Mubarak as president. For the first time since demonstrators took control of Tahrir Square, traffic in the area flowed freely.

Sunday marks the traditional start of the work week in Egypt. By Sunday morning, the majority of shops around Tahrir were open.

Egyptian activist Ghonim wrote on his Twitter page: "Dear Egyptians, Go back to your work on Sunday, work like never before and help Egypt become a developed country."

A mass of young people gathered outside the ministry of natural gas on Sunday to fill out applications, some leaning on cars to do so.

As thousands reveled in their revolution over the weekend, the nation's newly appointed military caretakers laid out priorities Saturday geared at establishing stability -- though they revealed little to elucidate the future.

The Armed Forces Supreme Council said Saturday it was committed to a democratic process resulting in civilian rule.

"The armed forces council calls on the people to cooperate with the policemen," Lt. Gen. Sami Anan, who some see as a potential presidential candidate, said on state television. "We ask our policemen to adhere to their slogan: Police is at the people's service."

In the immediate future, the military -- largely respected by Egyptians -- will have to grapple with guiding the country of more than 80 million people through the transition amid massive problems of unemployment and economic underdevelopment.

The African nation virtually shut down during the unrest, losing vital tourism dollars as well.

Businessmen near the famed Pyramids said about 50,000 people are employed in the tourism industry.

"Young boys 17 years old and 18 years old, they want to say, 'We are hungry, we want to eat, we want to work,'" one businessman, Ayman el Myonir, said Saturday.

Patrons at a coffee shop in central Cairo said they now feel free to speak honestly about Egypt's political problems.

"I am happy and sad," said one customer named Fateh. "I am sad because this is the president who carried us through wars and tough times."

He said the turning point came when Mubarak supporters -- some of whom wielded whips -- rode horses and camels into the Tahrir Square crowd.

On Saturday, a marble memorial was being erected to remember those who died in the uprising. Human Rights Watch has documented 302 deaths, a number the monitoring group called conservative.

Anan, the armed forces chief of staff, said Egypt would still honor international treaties and commitments -- a statement perhaps aimed at calming a jittery Israel that has quietly watched dramatic change unfold in its Arab ally.

"Egypt is a country of institutions and it honors its legal obligations," Sameh Shoukry, Egyptian ambassador to the United States, told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on Saturday. The revolution is something "all Egyptians are proud of," the diplomat said.

Egypt and Israel signed a peace treaty in 1979. On Saturday, Israelis welcomed the Egyptian statement. Defense Minister Ehud Barak spoke on the phone with his Egyptian counterpart Hussein Tantawi, who heads the supreme council, the Israeli Defense Ministry said.

But how long Egypt would continue under military rule remained unclear.

Egypt's constitution allows for only two scenarios if a head of state to relinquish power. The first stipulates that if the president has to step aside temporarily, the vice president steps into the top role. That is what Mubarak's regime briefly orchestrated Thursday.

If the office of the president is vacated or the president becomes permanently disabled, the constitution states that the parliamentary speaker is to assume the role until new elections can be held. Those elections, in turn, must occur within 60 days.

But Mubarak's regime put all power in the hands of the military -- which, in effect, rendered the constitution inoperable.

Anan, who serves as spokesman for the Armed Forces Supreme Council, said Saturday the current government would remain in place until a new one could be formed.

Several high-ranking government officials -- including the former prime minister and interior minister -- were facing lawsuits and were barred from traveling out of the country, state television reported, citing a judiciary source.

But some analysts were sounding the alarm over the takeover by the military, which has suddenly become accountable for the nation. Analysts with Stratfor, a global intelligence company, said Egypt had essentially experienced a coup.

"Egypt is returning to the 1952 model of ruling the state via a council of army officers," the Stratfor statement said. "The question now is to what extent the military elite will share power with its civilian counterparts."

But even as officials hash out the details of Egypt's murky political future, public demands for change rippled throughout the region.

In the Yemeni capital of Sanaa, protesters chanted Saturday: "Yesterday Tunisia, today Egypt -- tomorrow Yemen will open the prison."

And in restive Algeria, anti-government protesters chanted "Change the power" on Saturday. But security forces clashed with the crowds Saturday in Algiers and detained roughly 100 protesters, according to the opposition Algerian League for Human Rights.

CNN's Ben Wedeman, Nic Robertson, Arwa Damon, Amir Ahmed, Hamdi Alkhshali, Ivan Watson, Joe Duran and Frederik Pleitgen and journalist Ian Lee contributed to this report

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It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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CashCowMoo
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I am actually pretty excited to see Egypt go through this, I think the people are really behind it. They need the same thing to happen in Iran, I am sure Mossad is working up a nice plan to help start another one. Last time was a nasty crack down by the Iranian government on the people, and the world just turned a blind eye.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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glassman
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrHUD2XmLN4

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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buckstalker
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Good song...

and..."it's ALL in the timing"

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

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jordanreed
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrHUD2XmLN4

one of the first albums i bought...i think around 71

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jordan

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CashCowMoo
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You were buying albums in 1971?

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
You were buying albums in 1971?

in 25 years you will (probably) realise that youth is wasted on the young....

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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jordanreed
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
You were buying albums in 1971?

of course....why not? first 3 I bought were John Coltrane...Jose Feliciano...and Cannonball Adderley Quintet...and that was '69 or '70...I think all they had then were albums and 8 track...I would go to Dinkytown and get 3 albums for 9 bucks..

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jordan

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CashCowMoo
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Look how its spreading as predicted while Obama turns a blind eye to Iran, Israel, and the brotherhood.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Look how its spreading as predicted while Obama turns a blind eye to Iran, Israel, and the brotherhood.

cash, the "revolution" in Egypt was sanctioned by the military...

i'm not sure what it is you think Obama is or isn't doing, but as far as i am concerned what ever he did or says would be wrong by your measure.

in the meantime? nothing has really changed... a few people are dead and injured that would not have been if the "revolutions" hadn't happened, but the military is still in charge, Mubarek may be gone, but it's impossible to know if he ruled at the pleasure of the military or not.. seems to me that he lost the military and then lost the country..

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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cash, suppose your favorite poltician gets selected in the next primary...

and the next week Hu Jintao (the president of China) got on TV and vocally supported your "favorite" cnadidate? do you think your favorite would have a chance of winning if that happened? i don't...

before you say it can't happen? you are right, Hu Jintao is not that dumb, but he does fund his preferences, of that you can be sure.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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CashCowMoo
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The Clintons just LOVED the Chinese in the 90's, and still do to this day. (campaign money and missles!)

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
The Clintons just LOVED the Chinese in the 90's, and still do to this day. (campaign money and missles!)

and so with both Bushes...

Bush Sr granted MFN status to the Chinese just days after the massacre at Tianaman Square:

China is using prisoners as forced labor to produce goods and services bolstering the Chinese economy. Mosher explains: "Whether operating factories, mines, or farms, each facility is not only required to be self-supporting, but is expected to turn a profit for the state" (Mosher 49). Some $100 million worth of these goods were exported to the United States in 1990, with goods such as textiles, wines, teas, and machinery. There are efforts in Congress to ban such imports because of the way the goods are produced. The Administration (first that of Bush and now that of Clinton) feels not only that trade is a way of gaining influence but also that some leeway must be given for cultural differences.

Clinton then granted them permananet MFN stataus,

and 9-11 made most people completely forget the Chinese-US spyplane incident that was in fact an act of war that was just plain ignored...

the Chinese should not have been allowed to get away with stealing our spyplane... it should have been blown up even with our personnell on board..

quite frankly? that's the job description, you don't go up in spyplane and deliver it to the enemy in any way shape or form. If you cannot do the job? then you don't take the pay.

actually? in retropsective? i beleive that historians will eventually point to that incident and how it was not handled at all, and they will say that was the beginning of the end of the US as THE global power...

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CashCowMoo
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Are the Chinese going to join the bandwagon and begin protesting?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1358834/China-quashes-pro-democracy-Jasm ine-Revolution-force.html?ITO=1490

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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