posted
I am watching this show called colony on planet green HD about the bees. I knew there was a problem with them dying off which leads to agricultural problems, but some of the stuff they are talking about is down right scary. This whole colony collapse disorder, and how slow Washington is moving on it.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I do not think anyone knows WHAT to do because the problem has still not really been 100% identified as the cause for the global issue. Maybe the rest of the world that our taxes fill their coffers could contribute more aggressively to the problem.
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posted
LOL, where do you get the idea the govt is not working on it?
some twit who has no clue told you.
there's a half dozne things happening to the bees..
for starters, a worker bee only lives a month... they are simply dying off too fast to be replenished...
maybe if the private industry farmers were actaully raisning their own bees isntead o hiring other people to cart them in on trucks? the farmers would take better care not to poison them?
bees are living things and have been so disrespected that these people do not deserve to profit from them, ask God.... it's in the Bible, judgement is always being passed.
as to what the Govt is doing or not doing? it's called research, and the Govt just told researchers to forget about pay increases, LOL, yeah they went to school for 10 extra years to get paid about 2/3rds what a Professor at University makes, but we pay them too much? LOL.... yeah. lets' compare them and VA doctors to macdonalds adn walmart employees, why don't we? buncha friggin idiots that's who's complaining about Govt pay...
the marching of the morons is picking up pace and as they march themselves right into starvation, the researchers will take notes and make deductions about why it's happening, from the sidelines of course.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Glass why do you always put words in my mouth?
"LOL, where do you get the idea the govt is not working on it?
some twit who has no clue told you."
Where did I say or imply that the government is not working on it?
Read my original post:
"This whole colony collapse disorder, and how slow Washington is moving on it."
HOW SLOW WASHINGTON IS MOVING ON IT.
That means, I recognize Washington IS moving on it and doing something....the whole process of something to get done in Washington is rather slow and bogged down with formalities and red tape.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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slow as in what? we still don't have a cure for aids, simply a "treatment" and you are complaining about how slow Wash is on the bees.
they were not slow to respond to this issue:
If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it? Albert Einstein
that is what research is... it takes as long as it takes. it costs as much as it costs, that's why private industry looks to teh Govt to do i tfor them, and then use that pure research to do Product Development.... Research and Development are two entirely different things
i actually know the people in Washington working on it... along with people at Penn St and several other Universities
as to putting words in your mouth? i didn't. you complained that they have not solved the problem yet they do know that it is not one single problem at this point. There are several contributing factors. Including the fact the bees are living animals that are being trucked around the coutnry like they are machines...
the solution really is for people to take better care of their land
some twit told you what to say... because the Govt pays it's people better than Walmart does? they get paid too much...
you just posted that 250K$ per year is not wealthy? well the avg govt employee gets paid (with benefits) just less than half that, and the average govt employees are quite a bit more educated than the average employee in the US..
and they did just get their pay frozen while the rich are getting much richer offa thier work every day
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: HOW SLOW WASHINGTON IS MOVING ON IT.
slow as in what? we still don't have a cure for aids, simply a "treatment" and you are complaining about how slow Wash is on the bees.
they were not slow to respond to this issue:
If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it? Albert Einstein
that is what research is... it takes as long as it takes. it costs as much as it costs, that's why private industry looks to teh Govt to do i tfor them, and then use that pure research to do Product Development.... Research and Development are two entirely different things
i actually know the people in Washington working on it... along with people at Penn St and several other Universities
as to putting words in your mouth? i didn't. you complained that they have not solved the problem yet they do know that it is not one single problem at this point. There are several contributing factors. Including the fact the bees are living animals that are being trucked around the coutnry like they are machines...
the solution really is for people to take better care of their land
some twit told you what to say... because the Govt pays it's people better than Walmart does? they get paid too much...
you just posted that 250K$ per year is not wealthy? well the avg govt employee gets paid (with benefits) just less than half that, and the average govt employees are quite a bit more educated than the average employee in the US..
and they did just get their pay frozen while the rich are getting much richer offa thier work every day
Well the "twit" that told me was actually a documentary on Planet Green of a bee keeper farm and live footage from Washington (dept of ag)regarding the issue as well as conflicting views from Bayer Crop Science. I know you think it was probably some late night Fox News host, but it wasnt.
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the idea that Washington was slow is wrong. since you give me an actual place to see where you got your info from? i can go look and see why you would complain about he Govt again;
the politicians may be slow, but the Ag Dept has been on it for a long time as well as several major Universities. They have made several "breakthroughs" which all tell us that bees have a basket of problems and not one single identifiable problem...
CCD, explained This is what we know. We know that the bees are dying from the equivalent of the flu, and so they're getting bad virus infections. But it's not the same flu--there's different strains and different types of viruses bees can get. CCD bees have a lot more pathogens than healthy bees do. The question is, why are these bees suddenly so susceptible to these different pathogens, and we don't have an answer to that yet.
We have to look at the various factors. It's like heart disease in people--you don't get heart disease from one factor, it's a combination of factors that contribute to heart disease. So that's what we're trying to do now is figure out what factors combined contribute to CCD.
I think it's really important to realize that honeybees, left on their own, aren't going to survive in North America, because they're not native and because of introduced pests; they sort of do require management. But it's not only honeybees, because there's thousands of other native bees, and they're in trouble too.
you'll notice that i specifically mentioned Penn State before- and Voila! This guy is from there TOOOO! what a coincidence huh?
seriously? i am the one watching Fox and hearing what i hear. You did complain, and Dennis vanEngelsdor may have complained too, and that maybe what you latched onto... Dennis wants more money... Grants are the Universtiy peoples nutrition... But the Govt people? they are effectivly getting their pay cut while other people falsely complain about how they are so incompetent...
of course, Bayer will never save the bees unless it's profitable for them.. and when you think about it? it's more profitable for them when the bees need their medicine isn't it?
now, that article even goes so far as to say :
think it's really important to realize that honeybees, left on their own, aren't going to survive in North America, because they're not native and because of introduced pests; they sort of do require management. But it's not only honeybees, because there's thousands of other native bees, and they're in trouble too.
and that my friend is why we need Govt environmental regulation and research becuase if there's no profit to be made nobody else will do it "just because". and if it is profitable today to destroy tomorrows environment, people will.. it's not profit that's bad, it's people that don't care what tomorrow brings as long as they have what they want today
yet, because of the TParty we are going to cut our ability to do this and other things that are just as critical with this new climate in Wahington, and the marching moronns move to doublestep.... because we cannot afford it? how about the fact, yes FACT, that we cannot afford not to do it?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
here's the case against Bayer. It is not scientifically proven, yet some reporters want to claim that it is "for-sure" and others (like 60 minutes)want to avoid offending what is a huge TV-multimedia corporate advertising spender with deep deep pockets...
there is no direct evidence available to prove the claims, so 60 minutes may actaully be coorect even tho we all know that Bayer spends a ton of moeny with them on ads.......
Is an insecticide made by Bayer killing all of our bees? Is "Colony Collapse Disorder" just a label for a corporate cover up?
Below are articles from around the globe.
France & Italy ban neonicotinoids. In the past six years, a new group of nicotine-based pesticides have emerged called neonicotinoids. The most common is imidachloprid. Ironically, these were originally manufactured to be less lethal. But about four years ago, French and Italian beekeepers complained that imidachloprid crop spraying was killing their honey bees. So the French and Italian governments banned the nicotine-based pesticides.
Germany bans chemicals linked to honeybee devastation Germany has banned a family of pesticides that are blamed for the deaths of millions of honeybees... The move follows reports from German beekeepers in the Baden-Wuerttemberg region that two thirds of their bees died earlier this month following the application of a pesticide called clothianidin."It's a real bee emergency," said Manfred Hederer, president of the German Professional Beekeepers' Association. "50-60% of the bees have died on average and some beekeepers have lost all their hives." Tests on dead bees showed that 99% of those examined had a build-up of clothianidin. Source/Full Story: The Guardian, May 23 2008
Here's the background you need to understand: The primary product used to control grubs on your lawn, or insects on your fruit trees, or termites in your basement, contains a chemical compound known as imidacloprid, a synthetic nicotine, which is most commonly marketed as Merit. No one debates that imidacloprid is toxic to bees, yet Bayer, the exclusive patent holder from 1988 until this year, denies its product causes CCD. The cause of CCD has been greatly disputed. Everything from radio waves to cell phone towers were blamed initially, with the most recent high-profile theory involving Israeli acute paralysis virus that was detailed in a scientific paper released Sept. 4. Many beekeepers and other scientists, however, state that the Israeli virus is only a symptom and that imidacloprid is the true culprit. Products that contain imidacloprid other than Merit include Admire, Confidor, Connect, Evidence, Leverage, Muralla, Provado, Trimax, Premise and Winne. Though imidacloprid has been patented since 1988, . its use on American crops escalated significantly in the past three years, just as products containing diazinon came off store shelves. In the case of bees, the imidacloprid apparently does not directly kill the hives, but disorients the bees and causes them to disband — at least according to beekeepers who are closely observing bees' behavior. That's why, when Colony Collapse Disorder is the problem, no dead bees can be found near the hive. That, said Hackenberg and others, is the biggest indicator that imidacloprid is involved.
then there's HGTV jumping in too...
the real problem with trying to understand waht's going is that these TV show people don't really read the actual peer reviewed scinetific articles very well....
it's kindalike global warming... every paper i have read? states the proper caveats because peer review requires them too, but the so-called "journalists" do not.... the read the parts they want to quote from and ignore the rest...
happens every day...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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another insect "problem" that people get real cofused about? Ants, fire ants in particular, they have sprayed the coutnry to get rid of them and they're still here... they DID amnage to kill all kinds of other "good" insects, and rabits and frogs and birds and toads.... but eh fire ants are still here...
now i hate teh darn things, they bite you and that burns, as they hold on? they twist around in a circle and sting you as many times as they can while they do that...
BUT! they eat termites.. it's one of their favorite treats.... and we spray (pay) to get rid of them too, but that don't work too good eitehr...
go figure...
lottsa money in pest control.... more than most people realise, and the job is never finished either
fire ants could be used as polinators someday because we have to
one more thing to ponder about the bees?
our Red States are primarily growing four crops...
rice, corn wheat and soy...
they are all self pollinators... they don't need bees.... so the blue states like Ca are the ones that need the funding.... hmmmm....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Friend of a friend is a PhD working in the U of MN bee lab on the hygienic queen project.
Very interesting stuff.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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is he/she breeding the hygienics or looking for what makes them hygienic?
one of the big questions is why the mites "suddnely" became invisible to the bees...
it's amazing when you look at them under magnification how they don't seem to know they are carrying a parasite around that would be the equivalent of US having a 5 inch tick or leech on our back.....
unfortunately? the mites do not seem to tb the cause of CCD... that was the very first assunption to be chucked...
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She is one of them who helped start the breeding program and works with keepers to select breeders based off of hygienic characteristics.
The hygienics are not an end all to CCD but hives with a good hygienic queen (if I understand this correctly) get eject drones who exhibit CCD symptoms sooner and the colonies are thereby less likely to be wiped out.
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posted
there is now a Minnesota strain (just looked this up) specifically bred to recognise and get rid of the Varroa (and a couple others) mites...
this is a picture of the mite on the pupae
the mites are huge compared to the bees, but for some reason, bees just stopped recognising them. The concern is whether the bees became "dumber" or the Varro became "smarter" (evolutionarily)...
It is considered a different issue from CCD tho...
in CCD the bees seem to leave the hive and never return, while Varroa infest the hive and the dead are found in the hive..
beleive me when i tell you that some of the best minds in the country have been working their butts off onthis since it was first observed, and it nay turn out to be a bee AIDS virus that we haven't found yet...
they are actaully sequencing proteins now (as opposed to DNA) which ten times harder to d because proeins are so much more complicated, looking for what differnces between the surviving hives, the real problems it that one day the hive sis just empty, like a bee rapture, and there is darn little to even test....
we are going to have to consider spending quite a bit of money on alternative pollination tech because this problem is so difficult to solve...
i was not joking about possibly being forced to try to train or manipluate fire ants to become pollinators... they seem to be the bulletproof hymenoptera...
insects are "just like" little machines when you start to look into them deeply.. but they are not machines, they are living things and we have been extremely careless....
Africanised bees seem to be more resitant, and may have even carried whatever it is that is killing the European Bees... we just don't know...
the Gene modifacation BT in corn (and other crops) was looked at hard too, but BT is proprietary to the biggest financial power in the AG world and if it IS the cause they will squash any researcher that tries to make that case before they get it public, or even begun if they can... scientists cannot work if they do not have grant money, and even the governmnet grants are tightly controlled by the Corporations. In fact, you could almost say that the usda works for them.
anybody who thinks the gov was too slow on this should consider this; whoever solves this problem conclusively, and shows the way to a diffinitive cure will be Nobel Prize winner.
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