In its second major ruling on gun rights in three years, the Supreme Court Monday extended the federally protected right to keep and bear arms to all 50 states. The decision will be hailed by gun rights advocates and comes over the opposition of gun control groups, the city of Chicago and four justices.
Justice Samuel Alito wrote for the five justice majority saying "the right to keep and bear arms must be regarded as a substantive guarantee, not a prohibition that could be ignored so long as the States legislated in an evenhanded manner."
The ruling builds upon the Court's 2008 decision in D.C. v. Heller that invalidated the handgun ban in the nation's capital. More importantly, that decision held that the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms was a right the Founders specifically delegated to individuals. The justices affirmed that decision and extended its reach to the 50 states. Today's ruling also invalidates Chicago's handgun ban.
Backgrounder:
WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court appears poised to issue a ruling that will expand to the states the high court's historic 2008 ruling that individuals have a federally protected right to keep and bear arms, following an hour-long argument Tuesday. If so, the decision would mark another hallmark victory for gun rights advocates and likely strike down Chicago's handgun ban that is similar to the Washington D.C. law already invalidated by the justices.
Tuesday's lively arguments featured lawyer Alan Gura, the same man who argued and won D.C. v. Heller in 2008. He now represents Otis McDonald who believes Chicago's handgun ban doesn't allow him to adequately protect himself. Gura argued the Heller decision which only applied to Washington D.C. and other areas of federal control should equally apply to Chicago and the rest of the country.
"In 1868, our nation made a promise to the McDonald family that they and their descendants would henceforth be American citizens, and with American citizenship came the guarantee enshrined in our Constitution that no State could make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of American citizenship," Gura told the Court.
He argued the language of the Constitution's 14th Amendment forces the states to protect the rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment. The Bill of Rights, which was adopted in the late 18th Century, was then commonly viewed as only offering protections from the federal government.
It wasn't until after the Civil War that the Supreme Court in a piecemeal fashion began to apply--or incorporate--parts of the Bill of Rights to the states. It has used the 14th Amendment's Due Process Clause to incorporate most of the Constitution's first amendments but has not yet done so for the Second Amendment. Gura argued that another part of the 14th Amendment would be a better vehicle for the justices to make their ruling but there didn't appear to be enough support from the bench on that front.
Chief Justice John Roberts was the most vocal advocate of using the Due Process Clause to extend the Second Amendment rights to the states. "I don't see how you can read -- I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
The discussion over "liberty" was a major philosophical theme of the arguments. Gura and National Rifle Association lawyer Paul Clement argued that the rights articulated in the Second Amendment are fundamental freedoms and would exist to all Americans even if there was no law specifically saying so.
James Feldman, lawyer for the City of Chicago, defended his city's handgun ban and argued why the Heller decision's Second Amendment guarantee doesn't comport with the view that it represents a vital protection of liberty that needs to be expanded to the states.
"[T]he right it protects is not implicit in the concept of ordered liberty," Feldman said. "States and local governments have been the primary locus of firearms regulation in this country for the last 220 years. Firearms unlike anything else that is the subject of a provision of the Bill of Rights are designed to injure and kill."
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg dissented in Heller and wondered why the right to bear arms was necessary to extend to the states. "[I]f the notion is that these are principles that any free society would adopt, well, a lot of free societies have rejected the right to keep and bear arms."
Later in the arguments Roberts disputed that notion. "I do think the focus is our system of ordered liberty, not any abstract system of ordered liberty. You can say Japan is a free country, but it doesn't have the right to trial by -- by jury."
Roberts was part of the five member majority in Heller and there's a good chance Tuesday's case will result in a similar 5-4 outcome. All of the members of the Heller majority are still on the Court and at least one of them would have to rule against extending the Second Amendment protection in order for the opposing side to prevail.
posted
good job passed 2nd amendment is the law of the land.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
this is just single shot, but these peices are all interchangeable, thru the years, and even differnt models, you can interchange one barrel for another- meaning they are some of the highest precision machines ever made:
under the law, as long as the bore isn't smooth? it's not shotgun... course you have to have another matching round...
so for instance you COULD manufacture a "12 guage" pistol round and have a bit of rifling in the barrel and it would be a legal "shotgun pistol"... (except in CA where they pass laws every day that are just silly)
the notion that a shotgun at 17 inches (breech face to muzzle) is illegal and an 18 1/4" is not is pretty foolish...
i like the .223 pistol - it is over 1200 ft pound at the muzzle.. compare to .45 with "only" 830 or a .44 mag at about the same energy... you have to step up to 454 casull or a 50 to beat that......
all of those leave me with a sore elbow after a dozen rounds or so.....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
if it's simply personal protection the Judges want? they should go with a .38 special or a .357 glaser anyway...
lighter to carry and incredible stopping power:
The company produces glaser bullets in calibers from .25 to .45 for pistols and from .223 to .30-06 for rifles. Each caliber comes in two forms, 'blue' and 'silver', the latter having greater penetrating power due to the use of No. 6 birdshot rather than No. 12.
The projectile in the cartridge is of a much lighter weight than more conventional types of cartridges and so the projectiles always exit the bore at significantly higher muzzle velocities. The current bullet has a core of very tightly packed lead pellets. On impact, the bullet fractures along manufactured stress lines in the jacket—imparting all the bullet's energy very quickly rather than over-penetrating a target or ricocheting on a miss. The extreme light weight and fragility of the projectile make it unsuitable for long range firing or against protected targets.
The bullet design can produce large shallow wounds in flesh while failing to pass through structural barriers thicker than drywall or sheet metal. The rapid energy dump creates high stopping power and the wide wound cavity destroys a large amount of tissue, making the Glaser a deadly round when it strikes a target's torso. At the same time, the fact that it only penetrates at most a few inches, means it will not pass through the target when hit center-mass, nor will it pass through a standard wall. These qualities make it less likely to strike unintended targets, such as people in another room during an indoor shooting. Also, when it strikes a hard surface from which a solid bullet would glance off, it fragments into tiny, light pieces and creates much less ricochet danger.
i like these in .223 too.. pretty awesome...
i've always wondered why there aren't more .22 magnum semi-pistols.. the .22 mag has the same basic ballistics as the 9mm and you can just about double the mag capacity... they are easy to shoot too.. if you just want to discourage somebody the .22 mag rat-shot is very "discouraging"
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sad when we have agenda driven judges instead of constitutional perspective. Glad to see it passed, but this should be a no brainer to them.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
My brother in law was raised 'on the farm' and says that many ranchers are liking the Judge so they can deal with rattlers without having to pack a full length shotgun with them. I think most of the hype for it is that it can shoot a 'shotgun shell' from a revolver frame. (shrug) Not my thing, but hey, any gun is better than nothing in a bad situation.
I've heard some good things about the Extreme Shock frangible rounds for self defense.
posted
i prefer single actions- there's things that SA is good for, but i find that accuracy becomes more "instinctual" when you know you have to make each shot count...
it's just a mindset....
i have customized a couple of ruger 10-22's that are tack drivers at up to 75 yds and enjoy that too, but it's so easy to just start popping caps when all you have to do is squeeze...
one day i was at a friends house who is a Seal... he handed me his ruger single 22 revolver (interchangable cylinder on it too) and threw a 2 liter bottle into the yard...
i have a colt the same model and configuration but he didn't know that...
anway i missed shot one at about 20 yds and he started in with the usual ragging on me, and i said hold, on i just barely and i was aiming a the cap i need to sight it in,.... he began to laugh until i shot the cap off on the next shot.... this is a guy who shot 500 9 mm rds (seniauto) a week in training, but they were all into body size targets and emptying alot of magazines to gain tactical advantage with fear... room entry is about teamwork anyway, not shooting your partner is more important than whether you get the guy in the shoulder or the carotid....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: Tex/Glass, just curious, does the .223 pistol kit circumvent the 'short barrel stamp tax' because it isn't fired from the shoulder?
I don't know that stuff. I can hit what I aim at, mostly. But you guys will have to teach me about stamp taxes, short barrels, etc.
posted
It's an outdated law from just after prohibition. They used it to try and get rid of 'gangster' weapons. It requires a $200 tax\registration fee of any rifle with a barrel length under 16 inches or over all length under 26. Also lays a bunch of restrictions on transporting it between states without informing ATF. Also, if you ever sell it, it is a 'new transfer' and they charge you another $200 and must register the new owner.
Outdated bologna.
As I understand it though, these kits wouldn't count because they aren't intended to be shoulder fired, ie no buttstock.
posted
$200 tax\registration fee of any rifle with a barrel length under 16 inches
the Contenders have always been easy with the law, that's an appeal to me...
i don't like that kinda trouble... and yes, it was always a BS law just to get "gangsta's" .. sheesh, a sawed off at 6 inches? that is a ridiculous weapon, might as well play roullette as point it at anybody... and anybody armed? you are likely to lose as long as they don't stare down those black holes...
the ruby Ridge incident came from the ATF soemhow getting Randy Weaver to saw a shotgun (or maybe two) to what he thought was a legal length...
unfortunatley the guy didn't know the exact procedure for measuring the proper length and was implicated in manufacturing illegal weapons... apparently he didn't know how to find the location of the breech face, and just measured from the back end of the frame...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
twenty years ago, i had a guy that wanted a custom bolt action .257 roberts i had picked up...
i had bought it primarily for the scope, J Unertl 20X with the external adjusting mounts...
so i took the scope and mounts off and traded him cuz he pulled out a Bushmaster Assault Rifle... It's capitalised cuz that the real name of it etched in the solid billit lower reciever... it ain't cast like the M16/AR15... the barrel is just legal and the folding stock is kinds like an afterthought to just make it legit, i'm sure they intended it to be thrown away as sson as you got it home... it kinda sad really
i wasn't even t interested in assault rifles or anything like that at the time, i just knew i was looking at a very strange beast.... and as far as i could tell it had never been modified..
the scope had been worht as much as i paid for the 257 roberts, so i said WTH and swapped him...
i fired it a couple times and put it in cosmoline.. they are so rare most gun dealers couldn't ID it and i can find a few mentions of them on the internet, but not one photo...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
this looks almost exaclty like the gun scope combo ont he 257 that i had bought except the barrel was free floated on shorter foregrip and the barrel was a custom bull with no iron sights on it..
the scope was about the same proportion on the gun....
old school can be cool...
i didn't like the 257 roberts round much and have since become huge fan of the 25-06.... it has way better range, and only a slight kick compared to the .3XX rounds...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
For real!?!?! Is sanity really too much to ask from Chicago?
Chicago Mayor Proposes Tighter Gun Rules
CHICAGO—Mayor Richard Daley proposed a replacement handgun ordinance Thursday that would require gun-owner registration, firearms safety training and a citywide ban on gun shops. But the proposed legislation lacked some of the rigorous provisions that City Hall had previously discussed.
The proposal follows hard on the heels of Monday's Supreme Court ruling that effectively struck down Chicago's 28-year-old gun ban, thus allowing citizens to own handguns in their homes.
The city council is expected to approve the proposed ordinance Friday. The new rules are softer than were under consideration earlier this week. Originally, the Democratic mayor and top aides had discussed requiring gun owners to have liability insurance and limiting citizens to one gun.
"Too many people can easily obtain guns in America," Mr. Daley said at a news conference Thursday on the city's West Side, where gun violence has been prevalent. "It's the most easy thing to get in America. It's harder to get a car license."
The proposed "Responsible Gun Ownership" ordinance would require purchasers of guns to obtain a city firearms permit and then register the weapon with the Chicago Police Department. Gun owners also would have to take a safety class that includes both classroom and firing-range training. Qualified adults would be limited to registering no more than one handgun per month, a provision that gun experts said would curb bulk sales.
The ordinance would limit each house in the city to one handgun that is assembled and operable. Other firearms would have to be inoperable. Also, it would be illegal for owners to bring their guns outside the home.
Because everyone knows you only get accosted by bad people inside your own home!
Alderman Anthony Beale, chairman of the city's Police and Fire Committee, said the federal government needs to establish more stringent regulations on gun manufacturers where "more guns are going out the back door than the front door."
"We're trying to strengthen the ordinance and trying to make our streets safer," Mr. Beale said in an interview. "I don't know if the Supreme Court striking our current ordinance down really obtained that."
At the Police and Fire Committee meeting Thursday, some aldermen expressed disappointment that the new rule wouldn't include a one-gun-per-adult condition. "You only have two arms," Alderman James Balcer said, wondering how many firearms a household needs.
Last year, the city's police department confiscated about 10,000 guns, Chicago Police Supt. Jody Weis said. He said the city plans to implement an automated system where police officers, firefighters and other first-responders will be alerted about which households have registered a handgun.
According to Jens Ludwig, director of the University of Chicago Crime Lab, the city has higher homicide rates than both New York and Los Angeles, with about three-quarters of homicides committed by firearms.
They're going to have to notify first responders that they're going to a (gasp)GUN OWNER's home?
i wonder if people who had their guns confiscated can go back and sue the city now? ---- --------------------------------------------
lol
-
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Were Down]](graemlins/weredown.gif)
