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Author Topic: Too much govt regulation?
glassman
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this is a perfect example of why my eyes glaze over whenever people start trying to convince me the Govt is "too big" and there's "too many regulations"
fact is? we have to eat, and this would be a daily occurrence in every community without the sytem we have now, even tho it's deeply flawed:

The vast majority of E. coli illnesses resolve themselves without complications, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Five percent to 10 percent develop into a condition called hemolytic uremic syndrome, which can affect kidney function. While most patients recover, in the worst cases, like Ms. Smith’s, the toxin in E. coli O157:H7 penetrates the colon wall, damaging blood vessels and causing clots that can lead to seizures.
To control Ms. Smith’s seizures, doctors put her in a coma and flew her to the Mayo Clinic, where doctors worked to save her.

“They didn’t even think her brain would work because of the seizuring,” her mother said. “Thanksgiving Day, I was sitting there holding her hand when a group of doctors came in, and one looked at me and just walked away, with nothing good to say. And I said, ‘Oh my God, maybe this is my last Thanksgiving with her,’ and I stayed and prayed.”

Ms. Smith’s illness was linked to the hamburger only by chance. Her aunt still had some of the frozen patties, and state health officials found that they were contaminated with a powerful strain of E. coli that was genetically identical to the pathogen that had sickened other Minnesotans.

Dr. Kirk Smith, who runs the state’s food-borne illness outbreak group and is not related to Ms. Smith, was quick to finger the source. A 4-year-old had fallen ill three weeks earlier, followed by her year-old brother and two more children, state records show. Like Ms. Smith, the others had eaten Cargill patties bought at Sam’s Club, a division of Wal-Mart.

Eventually, health officials tied 11 cases of illness in Minnesota to the Cargill outbreak, and altogether, federal health officials estimate that the outbreak sickened 940 people. Four of the 11 Minnesota victims developed hemolytic uremic syndrome — an usually high rate of serious complications.

In the wake of the outbreak, the U.S.D.A. reminded consumers on its Web site that hamburgers had to be cooked to 160 degrees to be sure any E. coli is killed and urged them to use a thermometer to check the temperature. This reinforced Sharon Smith’s concern that she had sickened her daughter by not cooking the hamburger thoroughly.

But the pathogen is so powerful that her illness could have started with just a few cells left on a counter. “In a warm kitchen, E. coli cells will double every 45 minutes,” said Dr. Mansour Samadpour, a microbiologist who runs IEH Laboratories in Seattle, one of the meat industry’s largest testing firms.


Dennis R. Johnson, a lobbyist for the largest meat processors, has said that not all slaughterhouses are looking hard enough for contamination. He told U.S.D.A. officials last fall that those with aggressive testing programs typically find E. coli in as much as 1 percent to 2 percent of their trimmings, yet some slaughterhouses implicated in outbreaks had failed to find any.


In August 2008, the U.S.D.A. issued a draft guideline again urging, but not ordering, processors to test ingredients before grinding. “Optimally, every production lot should be sampled and tested before leaving the supplier and again before use at the receiver,” the draft guideline said.



http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.nytimes.com%252F2009%252F 10%252F04%252Fhealth%252F04meat.html&h=115eb6790dba60f6bd349c07328d8306&ref=nf

With Ms. Smith lying comatose in the hospital and others ill around the country, Cargill announced on Oct. 6, 2007, that it was recalling 844,812 pounds of patties. The mix of ingredients in the burgers made it almost impossible for either federal officials or Cargill to trace the contamination to a specific slaughterhouse. Yet after the outbreak, Cargill had new incentives to find out which supplier had sent the tainted meat.

Cargill got hit by multimillion-dollar claims from people who got sick.


and people want tort reform too? [BadOne]

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Relentless.
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Glass, for your assertion to be correct then it would not be possible for us to be here now since our glorious government is simply not that old...
How have we made it here on earth for the last hundred thousand years without the wonders of government dictating our every move?
Government is the problem.. not the solution.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Glass, for your assertion to be correct then it would not be possible for us to be here now since our glorious government is simply not that old...
How have we made it here on earth for the last hundred thousand years without the wonders of government dictating our every move?
Government is the problem.. not the solution.

75 years ago? we bought our food from our neighbors. you don't sell poison to your neighbor and not expect repercusions.

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Relentless.
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Here's you prized government in action:

http://rawstory.com/2009/10/cop-drive-by-tasering/


"Suspended"... lol.. amazing...

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Relentless.
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quote:
The police car came to a stop about 35 feet from the male’s bicycle. The man remained pinned beneath the car for more than three hours before the car was removed and his body was taken away.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Here's you prized government in action:

http://rawstory.com/2009/10/cop-drive-by-tasering/


"Suspended"... lol.. amazing...

my prized govt? you misunderstand me, i'm not saying it is prized, if you read that article i posted? you'll find that it isn't doing a very good job.

tell me how you would go about protecting your family from toxic food in this economic system without the govt doing the little that it does...

you cannot. in fact? most of the regulations that people complain are costing jobs and "profits" came about in large part because of actual situations much worse than a little toxic hamburger...


i've had four or five hamburger recall notices this year from the local Kroger-

you know how they issue them? at the bottom of the register reciept AMONGST the advertisemnts they print on my receipt...

every time? i'd already cooked and eaten the stuff...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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oh, and that article? what do you expect in Pensacola?

that's the kinda stuff that happens here in the delta too.. it's got nothing to do with govt regulation and i bet you know that too...

that's "good ole boy" justice...

 -

http://www.pnj.com/article/20091003/NEWS01/91003002/1006

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Relentless.
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I think it has alot to do with government regulationary(yes I make them up as I go) powers, Glass.
I see them in much the same way. To abuse power is common from bottom to top in government. And escelates in intensity all the way up.
People really need to start reading the legislation being passed everyday concerning the very topic you posted. It is directly related to what I posted.

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glassman
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i figure the only reason we have not gotten very sick from one or another of those beef recalls is cuz
A) we eat the burger regularly and have a strong immune sytem, in large part because we eat a widely varied diet,

and
B) because i grill them on a VERY hot grill and make sure they are done, even tho i prefer rare.

we need our govt to do (only) CERTAIN things for US and do them very well, and we need the govt to get out of our personal lives...

the problem that i see in the last 25 years is that big business has owned the govt, and used the govt to promote it's own business.

for instance-most of the farm subsidies have gone to farms that are corporate and the corporate farms have been taking over the family farms...

the subsidy system has been cronyism... we created the subsidy system to make sure we have more than enough food, that way, farmers can still make a GOOD living even tho there is too much food...

it really is good plan because not enough food means farmers make more money but it also means people DIE!

but, what has happened to the subsidy programs (particularly in the last few years) is criminal..

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The Bigfoot
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Relentless...The cop will be fired. Suspension during investigation is mandatory for all fatal incidents. There will be no redeeming factor in this investigation. Also the reason why the body was not moved. Once a fatality occurred the scene must be preserved for the detectives. Sad it took three hours to get all the info needed but sad even if it only took 10 minutes.

Government is made of people and people make mistakes. But you can't have a population without people and you can't have a community without a governing body.

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No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfoot:

Government is made of people and people make mistakes. But you can't have a population without people and you can't have a community without a governing body.

I thought Bigfeet were hunter/gatherers. Didn't realize you had a government/community thing going on. [Big Grin]

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glassman
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i'm pretty sure the plural of bigfoot is bigfoots [Big Grin]

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Relentless.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfoot:
Relentless...The cop will be fired. Suspension during investigation is mandatory for all fatal incidents. There will be no redeeming factor in this investigation. Also the reason why the body was not moved. Once a fatality occurred the scene must be preserved for the detectives. Sad it took three hours to get all the info needed but sad even if it only took 10 minutes.

Government is made of people and people make mistakes. But you can't have a population without people and you can't have a community without a governing body.

You or I would already be in jail BF.

That alone proves my point.

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The Bigfoot
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Bigfeetes have very elaborate community rules and customs specifically because we tend to be loners. When we come across others we must observe the forms or face the possibility of extinction.

As to the cop...


An officer of the law has the authority to use deadly force if necessary in some circumstances. That more than anything is the focus and reason for the mandatory investigation. To see if the circumstances surrounding the incident fit the criteria for a justifiable killing.

We already know it doesn't but that doesn't stop the investigation from being necessary. In fact it makes it more necessary that every I is dotted and T crossed. This guy and his union/legal council will know every form and file and procedure. If he were charged and then had the charges dismissed because his lawyer found something botched in the evidence and investigation it would cause a large amount of public anger.

He will be fired...will he also likely face jailtime. I'd guess it'll be a plea deal reduced sentence thing. He didn't intentionally run the kid over. He is just too stupid and lazy of an individual to be worthy of the responsibilities entrusted to him.

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The Bigfoot
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As to us? We would be held for 48 hours and then released if we aren't charged.

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glassman
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this one is just unreal:

Saturday September 26, 2009
Entergy to delay repaying


The Associated Press

JACKSON, Miss. (AP) - Mississippi regulators are allowing Entergy Inc. to keep $31.8 million in customer overpayments in hopes of keeping rates low next spring.

The Clarion-Ledger in Jackson reports that Entergy overcollected $31.8 million from customers between April and July this year. It would have been repaid to customers from October through December.

Entergy asked the state Public Service Commission to delay the repayment because it feels it can help keep rates steady next spring, particularly as the cost of natural gas, a major electricity source for Entergy, is rising again.

The PSC this week agree to defer the repayment and approved Entergy's fuel adjustment for the last quarter of the year.

The fuel adjustment means bills will drop about 8 percent a month for the typical customer using 1,000 kilowatt hours.


http://www.dailymail.com/ap/ApTopStories/200909260571


they let 'em just keep our money?

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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this one is crazy too:

Light bulb program has some customers seeing red

By MARK WILLIAMS (AP) – Oct 8, 2009

COLUMBUS, Ohio — A plan by a Midwest utility to distribute energy-efficient light bulbs to customers backfired when it was learned that the recipients would not only have to pay for the bulbs, but also pay the utility for the electricity they wouldn't be using.

Ohio's governor sent a letter to regulators who pulled the plug on the program for now, or at least on the charges that caught consumers off guard.

Utilities have been pushing consumers to become more efficient as states set new energy standards. It's not the first time consumers have felt they've been pushed too hard.

Nearly two years ago, Allegheny Power apologized for mailing energy-efficient bulbs to its 220,000 Maryland customers without letting them know they would be footing the bill. Maryland regulators said the company ignored instructions to inform customers about the program.

FirstEnergy's Ohio is now promising to work with the state's Public Service Commission to settle the dustup.

Total planned charges for unsuspecting customers for two light bulbs was $21.60, though it cost only $3.50 to buy and distribute them. To make up the cost plus lost electricity sales, FirstEnergy planned to charge customers using an average amount of electricity 60 cents a month for three years.



http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ihZf--KlAYYK_gaZJH2_Zj-9bD3AD9 B763E80

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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T e x
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Good Lord.

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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T e x
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new Web site, from your friendly, efficient SEC:

http://investor.gov/

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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buckstalker
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I feel so much safer now that the SEC has a new website...

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T e x
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ya, I'm expecting it to REVOLUTIONIZE trading...

1) newbs can actually get answers

2) the bad guys will give up.

We need a "gag-me" emoticon

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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