posted
Why was that jockey jumping up and down on that horse after they won and were just slowly walking around the fans? It looked sooooo stupid he was just hopping up and down with this grin...looked like a man with his dentures missing.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Why was that jockey jumping up and down on that horse after they won and were just slowly walking around the fans? It looked sooooo stupid he was just hopping up and down with this grin...looked like a man with his dentures missing.
he also smacked the horse, but he horse didn't seem to mind too much..
the guys won 2 derby's now tho... he might seem like a yuckapuck, but he'll be getting hired again.
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posted
He's got a reason to be bouncing up and down like a fool.
This jockey on his 50-1 odds-10 grand horse beat out two horses owned by the Prince of Dubai, two horses that were purchased for over 2 million dollars each, and 8 horses that have a price tag of over $200,000 each.
He has now won the derby two out of the last three years which basically means he's rich and will have top of the line job offers for the rest of his life.
Even if he doesn't go any further in the triple crown the owner too should be able to retire off the stud fees of this little colt after that stunning come from behind run.
(Glass, the stud books on these horses are so detailed it's a little scary. No inbred horse would have a chance with this crowd no matter what the parentage.)
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I lost betting Friemans Fire across the board... he came in 18th.. I would of bet Pioneer of the Nile but since he never raced a dirt track before I couldn't make a educated decision on him... he had only raced turf and synthetic tracks before...
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Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli: I lost betting Friemans Fire across the board... he came in 18th.. I would of bet Pioneer of the Nile but since he never raced a dirt track before I couldn't make a educated decision on him... he had only raced turf and synthetic tracks before...
Arenn't you the one that said picking horses was "EASYY"
18th??? You better stick to playin poker.
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
I don't generally give a lot of thought to my betting and just play a mix of odds but my wife fancies herself a good judge of horseflesh and analyzes every detail.
She says she never even would have considered picking this horse.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Arenn't you the one that said picking horses was "EASYY"
18th??? You better stick to playin poker.
I never once said horseracing was easy... I did say horseracing along with blackjack, poker, sportsbetting and videopoker are beatable... If I said it I challenge you to find where i said it...
Btw Friesans Fire was a 7-2 favorite so the general public or parimutuel betting agreed with me... Handicapping is an art not a science... and the general betting public bet with their hearts and not with their minds... when you see the general public is wrong on betting heavy on one horse due to the hype you look at the Past Performance charts put out by The Daily Racing Form seeking a different horse that has the potentional to win/place/show other then the total favorite. Favorites win 30% of the time. That is a statistical fact and you can look it up. But the payoffs for such a horse isn't much. I bet Fire before Revenge (the original favorite at 3-1) was scratched from the race.
I didn't bet Pioneer of the Nile which was one of the 3 horses I was considering (Dunkirk was the other one) because he had never raced on a dirt track before so there was no past performance on how he would do on one. Dunkirk and Fire did have histories on dirt tracks. And btw below will show you why Fire didn't place in top 3. It was a freak race and that is all there is to it:
"Woolley was no kinder to sentimental favorites Larry Jones and Tom McCarthy, two home-state trainers whose feel-good stories also dominated the headlines for most of the week.
Jones' horse, Friesan Fire, the 7-2 wagering favorite of 153,563 fans, was 18th in the 19-horse field. A year ago, Jones lost his filly Eight Belles, who ran a gallant second to Big Brown, then broke down after the finish line and had to be euthanized on the track.
Jones blamed Friesan Fire's poor showing on the muddy track and getting clipped on one of his legs out of the gate, drawing blood. The trainer said it may have jeopardized his chance of running in the May 16 Preakness."
I chose the right horse to place in the top 3. Just events beyond my control happened.
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Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: I don't generally give a lot of thought to my betting and just play a mix of odds but my wife fancies herself a good judge of horseflesh and analyzes every detail.
She says she never even would have considered picking this horse.
No one would of considered that 50-1 shot except peeps who have no clue about handicapping... peeps who bet horses on their names, colors, etc..
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Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: I don't generally give a lot of thought to my betting and just play a mix of odds but my wife fancies herself a good judge of horseflesh and analyzes every detail.
She says she never even would have considered picking this horse.
IMO? even after he won? he looked like a regular barnyard pet.
my wife used to be what we called a trackie. she hot walked for almost no pay just to be able to smell horsehockey .
she said that horses often just get a wild hair and run like that one single day in their lives. it's pretty rare to ahppena t the derby tho...
don't expect him to be on the board a the Preakness. but who friggin knows?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
(Glass, the stud books on these horses are so detailed it's a little scary. No inbred horse would have a chance with this crowd no matter what the parentage.)
i know how detailed the stud books are, and you'd be surprised how much inbreeding is done on purpose.
these books were being computerised with task specific special programming long before windows came out programs are made by people tho and hence never perfect.
i love horses and racing but i'm not much of a bettor... i'll plunk a few bucks down for fun and i look at the horses in the flesh to make my choices so off-track has no interest for me.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
yah, offtrack is boring but where I am it is necessary except for the Belmont Stakes or Saratoga... also offtrack takes a bigger chunk of your winnings in the form of taxes then betting at the racetrack... OTB here in NY i believe takes about 18% if not more in taxes plus add in the Houses take etc...
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Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
WE have a second track that opened up north of here a couple of seasons ago. Harness Racing. Fun stuff.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Horseracing has taken the chance away from complete unknown horses from winning these events anymore, by puting a purse earnings as the only way to qualify for the race.
There is always a possibility that some good 3 year old horses lurk at the cheap tracks, but they can never qualify for the big race because they have not won enough purse money.
This was a close as you can get anymore, but somewhwhere he showed some class or he would never have been in the race. Maybe not as much as others, but it's always a crap shoot with that many horses.
They have also taken out some of the chances away of horses that run big on the off tracks because of more and more synthetic tracks, this was at great opportunity at the derby... dirt
Out west these tracks(synthetic) have not proven there worth so far, in fact Santa Anita has had nothing but trouble with theirs. I still love that dirt -- mud racing, really plays havoc with the chalk players... sometimes
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I guess in the next leg were going to see if the filly can run with the boys.
She was the early odds favorite.
The jockey is changing from the derby winner to her, we will see if that proves to be a mistake.
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Horseracing has taken the chance away from complete unknown horses from winning these events anymore, by puting a purse earnings as the only way to qualify for the race.
There is always a possibility that some good 3 year old horses lurk at the cheap tracks, but they can never qualify for the big race because they have not won enough purse money.
This was a close as you can get anymore, but somewhwhere he showed some class or he would never have been in the race. Maybe not as much as others, but it's always a crap shoot with that many horses.
They have also taken out some of the chances away of horses that run big on the off tracks because of more and more synthetic tracks, this was at great opportunity at the derby... dirt
Out west these tracks(synthetic) have not proven there worth so far, in fact Santa Anita has had nothing but trouble with theirs. I still love that dirt -- mud racing, really plays havoc with the chalk players... sometimes
Claiming horses do not qualify for the Big races for a reason and it's not because of their total life time purses. It's because they are outclassed and are not stake horses. Only one horse I can think of in history that was a claiming horse who turned out really to be a stakes horse and that was John Henry. His accomplishments were incredible even to this day:
type in keywords in google. Allstocks won't let the URL be listed in this post: john henry horse wiki
As for synthetic tracks, we'll seems the Pioneer of the Nile liked all 3 tracks: Turf, Dirt and Synthetic. If he's in this race he is a horse to contend with.
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Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Claiming horses do not qualify for the Big races for a reason and it's not because of their total life time purses. It's because they are outclassed and are not stake horses. Only one horse I can think of in history that was a claiming horse who turned out really to be a stakes horse and that was John Henry. His accomplishments were incredible even to this day:
type in keywords in google. Allstocks won't let the URL be listed in this post: john henry horse wiki
As for synthetic tracks, we'll seems the Pioneer of the Nile liked all 3 tracks: Turf, Dirt and Synthetic. If he's in this race he is a horse to contend with.
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As far as claiming horses being outclassed and not stakes caliber. (as in racing not eating)
You might not want to tell some big time trainers that, guys like Bobby Frankle who have made a living at doing just that.
"Frankel began as a hotwalker at Belmont Park and Aqueduct in New York before taking out a trainer's license and saddling Double Dash as his first winner at Aqueduct on Nov. 29, 1966. Early on, he made a name for himself with claiming horses, developing Baitman, Pataha Prince, Barometer and Lakeside Trail into stakes winners. He relocated to Southern California in 1972 and won a record 60 races at Hollywood Park."
This leg and next sometimes brings out those horses for courses concept. I tend to look deeper for someone that has run locally.
But would love to see filly run big, that last effort of hers looked like a Secretariat run.
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I bet Pioneer of the Nile in the Preakness... bet it across the board.... just missed making 3rd.... as for the horse i bet at the Derby.. it improved and came in like 7th... next is Belmont Stakes..
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Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli: I bet Pioneer of the Nile in the Preakness... bet it across the board.... just missed making 3rd.... as for the horse i bet at the Derby.. it improved and came in like 7th... next is Belmont Stakes..
Huh? Pioneer of the Nile finished 11th. What does "just missed making 3rd" mean? 11th place is a long way from 3rd. Just wondering.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
i had a show last night and missed the race, first triple crown race i missed inyears...
on the youtube? it looked to me like Mine that bird could have caught rachael if he had made his move a little earlier or th erace wase a little longer..
int he derby? they gave him the inside to move to the front, and he had to go outside this race.
the jockeys really do have alot of control on who wins.
giving up the inside at the derby surprised me.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
What a race yesterday... that girly horse's crew has been talking about making history all week, then backed it up. Mine that bird was pretty impressive as well, if he wins in 2 weeks, a bad beat to a Philly will have cost 'em a triple crown.
Posts: 2634 | From: The highway | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: the jockeys really do have alot of control on who wins.
That is one reason why horseracing is beatable in terms of betting... due to handicapping and the jockeying being one of the reasons among others used when analyzing a race beforehand...
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Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Hopefully these two great fillies meet while at the top of their game.
Doesn't appear it will be here at (Santa Anita) for the Breeders cup.
Racheal's owners don't like our racing surface, can't blame them for that, it really sucks.
They probably know best what surfaces she likes or doesn't like. Alot of trainers ignore that about their horses and put them in races they shouldn't be in.
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Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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"They probably know best what surfaces she likes or doesn't like. Alot of trainers ignore that about their horses and put them in races they shouldn't be."
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That can be the case a lot of the time.
But they also have had hugh problems with the surface at Santa Anita since they changed it.
They had to shut the track down last year because of it.
They then resurfaced it again and had more problems.
A lot of horsemen want them to go back to dirt.
There were a lot of injuries to horses that the new surface was suppose to help prevent.
We will see what they do in the long run, but with several tracks in bankruptcy including Santa Anita, they will have to wait for new owners.
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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"They probably know best what surfaces she likes or doesn't like. Alot of trainers ignore that about their horses and put them in races they shouldn't be."
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I did make a mistake when answering about trainers.
Most trainers know or find out quickly what surfaces their horses like or dislike.
But many times they cannot chose where they run, they are not all stakes horses where they can afford to ship anywhere.
Plus there are more smaller trainers that big time ones, which means they are pretty much limited to their local tracks and surfaces
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Plus there are more smaller trainers that big time ones, which means they are pretty much limited to their local tracks and surfaces
Then they should find/keep horses that love those local tracks/surfaces and get rid of the losers. I assume you mean claiming races/horses?
I didn't know Santa Anita changed it's surface. It's synthetic now? Here's a site you might consider for betting on the ponies in the U.S.:
The first time around with the synthetic surface they could't get it drain right.
Anytime we got much rain they couldn't train horses or run.
They tried fixing the problems many times, then they decided to re-due it, still not right.
Now they talk about possibly going back to dirt.
Grew up in the area and it is one of the best tracks there is.
You can to the infield in Jan and have a picnic, beer or drinks in 80 degree weather amd sit on the grass and enjoy great horse racing.
Play area for kids and plenty of entertainment for adults.
Del Mar is nice also, but not the same size infield.
To bad we will see a historic place like Santa Anita go.
But they have been slowly selling the property off, which will eventually will be all gone.
See now you got me going, grew up around the place.
I hear ya ole friend... I heard many good things about SA when it was dirt and such... here in NY we have Saratoga... as well as Belmont... If they changed it to synthetic I think it would also ruin them...
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Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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I would of bet Pioneer of the Nile but since he never raced a dirt track before I couldn't make a educated decision on him... he had only raced turf and synthetic tracks before...![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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programs are made by people tho and hence never perfect.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
