quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo:Highway, please tell me why California's mismanaged budget disaster is worth billions of Floridians tax dollars? Instead of trying to see what I mean you just go straight into attack mode. Weak.
This is supposed to be a STIMULUS bill, not a bail out state government bill. [/qb]
Well, California is the Tenth largest economy in the big 'ol goofy World just by itself. seems you wouldn't want that one to collapse. And last time I checked they ARE still one of the STATES that make this great nation. And if you like California or not, we're all in this together.
Look, I'm not an economist, But The C.E.O. of GE probably is, And he's saying we'll probably need 2 Trill. to pull out of this Republican CATASTROPHE.
Posts: 2634 | From: The highway | Registered: Feb 2004
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Well, when California spends over 10 BILLION a year on health care for ILLEGAL immigrants from people in Mexico jumping the border....its not hard to figure out why the economy is such a wreck in that state.
you are calling this a REPUBLICAN catastrophe? Wow...keep taking steps back highway.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Yes, cow, this is a situation brought to us by the republican part.
I think an estimate of 2 trillion to come out of this mess is a gross underestimate. Maybe more in the range of 3 - 4 trillion and that is just an estimate. Assuming there is a U.S. in the end, if the cost of recovery reaches 10 trillion it wouldn't be a surprise. This is not a time and place to play or to play to 19th century financial theory or practices.
The trouble is, without that effort, the cost could be, financially. 10 - 100 times more IF we even survived.
All this posturing by the republicans fits in well with their standard approach to everything.....BUSINESS AS USUAL.....which really translates to government by corporate influence.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Well, when California spends over 10 BILLION a year on health care for ILLEGAL immigrants from people in Mexico jumping the border....its not hard to figure out why the economy is such a wreck in that state.
you are calling this a REPUBLICAN catastrophe? Wow...keep taking steps back highway.
it's not just health care:
it's all services from education to incarceration.
however, if you dig into who is really behind keeping illegals here? look no further than their EMPLOYERS. throw them in jail, and illegal immigration would stop dead in it's tracks.
the fact is? employers are getting something for nothing.
Illegal Immigration Costs California Over Ten Billion Annually State's "cheap labor" costs average household $1,183 a year
"California's addiction to 'cheap' illegal alien labor is bankrupting the state and posing enormous burdens on the state's shrinking middle class tax base," stated Dan Stein, President of FAIR. "Most Californians, who have seen their taxes increase while public services deteriorate,
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I agree, penalize the employers of them. We also need to penalize leaders of cities that openly say they are safe haven cities for illegal immigrants like San Fran.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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You might want to check and see who the "they" is doing that talking before you choose to duplicate the effort.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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One thing I would like to point is most illegal immigrants work and pay taxes also social security and lots of them collect nothing. They leave the country for one reason or an other lots pay taxes every year and are afraid to file when they are due a refund.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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"Here's a list of the Sanctuary Cities in the US."
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That list seems to be very deceiving, at least for CA illegals.
I look at some of those cities and i believe there are many other cities that have a much higher population of illegals, yet not on that list.
I think they tend to live in areas close to work and have housing that provides for their living styles. It tends to be a different than normal lower income people, although looking for the lower cost housing in general.
Just doesn't seem like that list really means much to draw any conclusion off of it.
The only real conclusion is that there are a lot of illegals in a lot of cities in California, compared to many other states.
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: The answer to 1984 is 1776
Nah....
There isn't any need for that sort of violence any more in this country. Not for rational people, anyway.
They fixed the need for revolutions that back in September of 1787 by setting up a more peaceful and cheaper way to install a new government, so that all parties afterward can cease brawling and work positively and amicably together.
They call it a democratic election, like there was back in November. You do remember that, don't you? When you and yours were soundly defeated along with every possible reason to try to adhere to the shameful and outdated programs and philosophies yaw'll damned near destroyed the whole darn world with?
I guess you must have missed it, now that I think about it. There is nothing at all even close to positive or amicable about the way you do much of anything.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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We won't need a revolution. Our entire economy and our economy are nearing the point of collapse due to the overspending on social programs over the past few decades. Hopefully, sanity and a return to conservative principles will return after the collapse.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: Our entire economy and our economy are nearing the point of collapse due to the overspending on social programs
Is that some fancy way to say, the war in Iraq?
Posts: 2634 | From: The highway | Registered: Feb 2004
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"We won't need a revolution. Our entire economy is nearing the point of collapse due" to Party before country dogma by the far right wing republican hate machine "over the past few decades. Hopefully, sanity and a return to" political honesty and humanitarian common sense "will return" with the people having finally wrested power away from the madness of the Party's evil madness via the overwhelming defeat of Partyism and far right-wing fear tactics in the last election.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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This is the kind of transparency you NEVER got from Bushhhhh... http://www.recovery.govPosts: 2634 | From: The highway | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:There talking about giving an IOU for tax refunds this year.
Maybe we should all do the same thing, if we owe taxes.
You think that would be okay?
Well, I work for the IRS here in Detroit. The IRS in Detroit and the IRS in Ogden are the two hubs for sending out the notices. I would love to see IOU's sent out. Why? Because we already print and send out about 70+ million notices/fiscal year. I am already working overtime. If this number increases, I will have to work more! The more I work, the more all of you pay me. Thank god for our great government! I would personally like to thank my president and democratic party for our huge stimulus, and the GOP for causing the mess that the democratic party is trying to get us out of by just throwing money at it like it was hooker on Michigan Avenue. The way I look at it, I'll be doing well. This should make you all happier-I'm getting a pay raise in March and then another one in June/July. With IOU's our numbers should increase by about another 100 million or so. Detroit's unemployment is soaring and I'll have too much work. Hell, I might buy half the city!
I would like to thank you all! Yes, YOU the American taxpayer! Between Bush and Obama, our country will be in debt long after I have passed away, but that's okay. I'll be debt free by summer.
-------------------- "When you're in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging." -H. Ross Perot Posts: 111 | From: Detroit | Registered: Jun 2008
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I would like to thank you all! Yes, YOU the American taxpayer! Between Bush and Obama, our country will be in debt long after I have passed away, but that's okay. I'll be debt free by summer.
i have to tell you that the Govt always intends to be in debt.
it's not a GOP or a Dem thing.
it's just what the govt does.
whether you tax and spend? or cut taxes? the govt always operates on a deficit. this injects cash into the economy an is the real root of the power of the govt.
law enforcement is selective, and not an efficeint way to control peoples behaviour, most Americans are basically scofflaws anyway..
if you don't believe me? go sit on the side of the road with a radar gun, or sit at a stop lighted intersection and watch how many people run the red in one hour...
by spending the money they don't have, they get control over the states, and to some degree the individual.. if they just spent money they colleced? teh individual states would eventually complain that one state or the other is getting more than their "fair share", so they just give it to everybody and take a loan.
the people they borrow the money from to do that love it too... there is no "safer" investment than US Govt backed securities.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:whether you tax and spend? or cut taxes? the govt always operates on a deficit. this injects cash into the economy an is the real root of the power of the govt.
This doesn't inject cash into the economy! The GOP's power came from stroking the corporations. The corporations control the people with employment and by basically having all of the money. They, in-turn support the GOP which then controls the corporations by allowing them to make more money through tax cuts and deregulation. Look where that has taken us. Like a big ponzi scheme it has fallen apart. The dems control is government regulation and taxing the "haves" and then doling it out to the "have-nots" and social programs. The people become reliant on these programs, in many cases for everyday life. The problem is finding the middle ground. Ross Perot was right when he said that we need to quit writing everything into laws that take years to undo. What works now may not work in the future. You need an "out" in case your program fails. We never have an "out." When a government policy fails it usually hurts for many years and becomes very hard to undo.
-------------------- "When you're in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging." -H. Ross Perot Posts: 111 | From: Detroit | Registered: Jun 2008
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we agree alot more than you might think rhw.
i think all laws should sunset every ten years. then the bashturds would have to actually work to rewrite them, and they'd have less time to have (all-day)lunch with lobbyists
however, the govt DOES create money by spending money they don't have and borrowing it...
it's a big giant slush fund that they write checks to themselves with that everybody can cash
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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"the govt always operates on a deficit. this injects cash into the economy an is the real root of the power of the govt."
Which is what Alexander Hamilton made clear when he set up the Treasury, in case you haven't studied that in depth. A government that refuses to run a deficit must fail.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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The economic crisis has touched all of us, regardless of the states where we live or the industries in which we work -- whether it's health care or education, real estate or construction, technology or manufacturing. That's why the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act is designed to provide relief and reinvestment across the board.
We want to know how the economic crisis and this recovery program are affecting you. If you're an employer, are they affecting your thinking about your business or personnel decisions? If you're a student, are they affecting your choices for your education? If you've been looking for work, how is your job-search changing?
In a few months, this site will allow you to peruse extensive data that will enable you to measure our progress.
But you don't have to wait to leave a comment -- use the form below to share your Recovery story now. http://www.recovery.gov {share-your-experience}
Posts: 2634 | From: The highway | Registered: Feb 2004
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Just another example of "government by corporation", IWISH....and it would be a huge mistake to think California's laws are the problem. The problem lies in an attitude that has seeped into our national consciousness over decades.
"opportunistic lawmakers in South Dakota tossed their usury law out the window and invited Citibank to move its credit card operations -- and thousands of taxpaying workers -- to the state."
And in the process, you can bet that South Dakota promised Citibank they could operate there essentially tax free forever. In return, I'll bet that a huge chunk of the excess profits that fall into the hands of Citibank get reassigned to the interest of State legislators' and Administrators' wives and brothers and offspring and so on. Meanwhile, back at the ranch in D.C., more of those excess profits were winding up in Congressmen's reelection campaign accounts, provided the congressmen in question were pushing hard to lower taxes on corporations.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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If people didn't borrow money with interest, then we certainly wouldn't have to worry about the housing bubble, because almost no-one would own a home.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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I'll go along with the idea that usury is, by definition, the charging if excessive interest. Then I'll point out that MOST lending today is usury.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: If people didn't borrow money with interest, then we certainly wouldn't have to worry about the housing bubble, because almost no-one would own a home.
that doesn't change the fact that people who claim to wish to run the country according to the teachings of their particular religion would be unable to do so.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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I've gotten at least a dozen emails since last night, all purporting to be from Barak Obama, recommending that I borrow money , at rather large interest, for a short time, until Barak can get the stimulus package into effect and make the necessary arrangements to get my share to me, from certain "understanding lenders", whose purpose is to help Barak save our economy.
Suuuuuuuuure!!!!!!
I believe that.......
Of course they are only interested in doing their civic and patriotic duty and wouldn't charge a dime if they could manage to get the Feds to contribute directly to the cost of building a swimming pool in the back yard of the CEOs fishing lodge in the mountains of Bolivia or the corporate jet he will need to get to that lodge at leas bi-monthly and the "secretaries" in string bikinis that will have to ride along so he will be able to "work" while he is there..
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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