quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Furthermore I will NOT buy goods or services from local merchants that do NOT buy goods and services from US...I always ask veterinarians, doctors, lawyers, etc. what kind of automobile they drive BEFORE I will do business with them...NO MATTER WHAT THEIR COSTS ARE!
If they don't drive American...I don't do business with them PERIOD!
Correct me if I am wrong but aren't so called "Japanese" cars really just japanese designed but really "American made" since their plants are here with some made in Japan or elsewhere? To make them more affordable on our soil?
And if so, plus correct me if I am wrong, but aren't "American" cars american designed but are also made outside the USA? In countries like Mexico, Brazil etc.
If all this is correct then really you are not buying "American made" cars and are supporting foreign as much as domestic labor, Retired. Your statement of buying American made cars is just an illusion or denial & does not justify not doing business with lawyers, doctors, vets etc.
This article came out in 2007 but holds true. Please refute this article if you can and if you can't then rethink what you originally said about buying "american":
"Even GM, long the icon of American industry, hedges its bets. "We're very proud for the economic role we play in this country," says GM spokesman Greg Martin. "However, we're a global car company that happens to be based in the United States."
OK...I'll correct you because you are wrong about MY position...
My statement was...I only buy American products that are MADE in America...
My position on this issue is about AMERICANS and AMERICAN JOBS...PERIOD
Japanese auto companies that build cars in America only hire a handful of American workers to assemble their cars...the management, designers, engineers, and parts suppliers are all in Japan...which takes jobs AWAY from AMERICANS...
Some American cars and trucks are made outside of the USA, therefore I would not buy an American car that was made in Mexico or anywhere else outside of the U.S. because it takes jobs away from AMERICANS...
The UAW has a retreat in northern Michigan where union members go to take classes and such...when you get there the first thing that they do is to check the VIN number on your vehicle...if you are driving an American vehicle that was NOT assembled in AMERICA...you do NOT park in their parking lot...If you are driving ANY foreign vehicle...you are NOT even going to be allowed in...
Their reasoning??? The welfare of AMERICANS and AMERICAN JOBS...PERIOD
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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My statement was...I only buy American products that are MADE in America...
What is the brand name of the television(s) in your dwelling place?
Japanese auto companies that build cars in America only hire a handful of American workers to assemble their cars...the management, designers, engineers, and parts suppliers are all in Japan...
Who filled yer head with that garbage? Prove it.
-------------------- Buy Low. Sell High. Posts: 10754 | From: The Land Of The Giants | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Peaser: My statement was...I only buy American products that are MADE in America...
What is the brand name of the television(s) in your dwelling place?
Japanese auto companies that build cars in America only hire a handful of American workers to assemble their cars...the management, designers, engineers, and parts suppliers are all in Japan...
Who filled yer head with that garbage? Prove it.
Prove what, Pease... and why?
I think you need to try and prove otherwise, which is impossible since it is a fact that those foreign car plants here do nothing but assemble pieces and parts made elsewhere. That's why they are called ASSEMBLY plants.
They do not design or make the cars or any parts of the cars. They assemble the cars designed, engineered, and constructed, from parts made out of the U.S. .... sort of like "building" a prefabricated house, ya know ... prefabricated, means assembled but not manufactured at the site.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Those are nothing more than ASSEMBLY plants. Assembly amounts to way less than half of the the labor involved in the manufacturing of an automobile, maybe less than 10%.
Can you show me a source for that 10% or less?
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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All I would like is some first hand knowledge of differences between foreign and domestic auto manufacturers from somoeone on the inside, other than what the media spews.
I wonder how the Chinese view GM?
-------------------- Buy Low. Sell High. Posts: 10754 | From: The Land Of The Giants | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: OK...I'll correct you because you are wrong about MY position...
My statement was...I only buy American products that are MADE in America...
My position on this issue is about AMERICANS and AMERICAN JOBS...PERIOD
Japanese auto companies that build cars in America only hire a handful of American workers to assemble their cars...the management, designers, engineers, and parts suppliers are all in Japan...which takes jobs AWAY from AMERICANS...
Some American cars and trucks are made outside of the USA, therefore I would not buy an American car that was made in Mexico or anywhere else outside of the U.S. because it takes jobs away from AMERICANS...
The UAW has a retreat in northern Michigan where union members go to take classes and such...when you get there the first thing that they do is to check the VIN number on your vehicle...if you are driving an American vehicle that was NOT assembled in AMERICA...you do NOT park in their parking lot...If you are driving ANY foreign vehicle...you are NOT even going to be allowed in...
Their reasoning??? The welfare of AMERICANS and AMERICAN JOBS...PERIOD
Judging by the article I sent you which I am not sure if you read... no "American" car is 100% American made... at best they are 95% American... including your own car.... i suggest you read the article if you haven't before in my previous post:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Those are nothing more than ASSEMBLY plants. Assembly amounts to way less than half of the the labor involved in the manufacturing of an automobile, maybe less than 10%.
Can you show me a source for that 10% or less?
I'll give you a hint or two.
The engine of an internal combustion engine probably takes as much hourly input to manufacture as the assembly of an automobile and a hell of a lot of very special equipment, such as foundries, milling machines, drills and so on and on ... and almost all of it requires extremely specialized and high skilled labor.
Just the engineering designs and layout of the tooling (not for the parts of the car or the car itself, just the assembly tooling) for an assembly plant probably takes more hourly labor every year than the plant uses itself.
Manufacturing a transmission requires the same sorts of equipment and skills and labor an engine does and so do things like transfer cases and differentials and each is more labor intensive than assembly.
That's all just a start to manufacturing a car.
Those pictures you see on TV of assembly lines are showing you maybe 3% or 4% of the work that goes into making an automobile.
Can I give you a reference for that? Not exactly, because I didn't record the testimony, but I watched it put into congressional testimony by several experts in the last month that labor cost amounts to well under 10% of the cost of building an automobile. Note that assembly is all labor cost and note that if labor amounts to under 10% and only part of that is assembly, it can't be much.(The same is true of airplanes and bulldozers and trains and many other things. Generally, in any full fledged heavy manufacturing plant the two largest divisions are engineering and tooling. I once worked in an aircraft plant in which the welding shop alone covered over 40 acres. That's a hell of a lot of welders that never saw the assembly line. The department I worked in, tooling, dwarfed the welding shop.)
If you wanted to spend the three or four years it would take to learn to understand it, and I had the time or energy to teach you the engineering, so it would be understood, I could offer a more conclusive and specific reply. Assembly line work is but a small part of manufacturing any precision mass produced product.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Those are nothing more than ASSEMBLY plants. Assembly amounts to way less than half of the the labor involved in the manufacturing of an automobile, maybe less than 10%.
Can you show me a source for that 10% or less?
I will help answer that question.
My plant (Warren Truck (Builds Ram and Dakota)) has 1,200 workers on each shift. The Engine plant has about 2,000 workers. Tranmission plant has about 1,500. We had a glass plant that has about 1,000 workers...sold to PPG. Axle plant has I think about 1,000 workers. Not to mention if you add in all the suppliers that supply parts that we once made. I can agree with him about the 10% or less only if you count the suppliers....but if you don't then maybe 20% = Assembly Plant.
Posts: 2367 | From: Detroit | Registered: Mar 2005
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Mach...I buy products that provide the highest number of American jobs....get it?
Nothing in the auto industry, or for that matter, most manufacturing industries, are 100% American.
I personally don't wear jewelry (unless a watch is considered jewelry), but I am sure that many of my union brothers and sisters have bought many pieces of jewelry in the past from American jewelers...
Not so sure that anyone but the wealthy will be buying much in the future though...
Like I said...the attack is on the middle class, and I don't care WHAT industry you are in...if the middle class in this country don't start supporting one another...ALL middle class workers will be affected sooner or later.
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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Here's one that people really need to listen to when they hear right wing bullsh!t like UNION WAGES and BENEFITS are the downfall of the domestic automakers...
THE TOTAL LABOR COST IS LESS THAN 10% OF THE TOTAL COST TO BUILD A CAR OR TRUCK...
NOT the cost OF a car or truck...THE COST TO BUILD A CAR OR TRUCK...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Those are nothing more than ASSEMBLY plants. Assembly amounts to way less than half of the the labor involved in the manufacturing of an automobile, maybe less than 10%.
Can you show me a source for that 10% or less?
I will help answer that question.
My plant (Warren Truck (Builds Ram and Dakota)) has 1,200 workers on each shift. The Engine plant has about 2,000 workers. Tranmission plant has about 1,500. We had a glass plant that has about 1,000 workers...sold to PPG. Axle plant has I think about 1,000 workers. Not to mention if you add in all the suppliers that supply parts that we once made. I can agree with him about the 10% or less only if you count the suppliers....but if you don't then maybe 20% = Assembly Plant.
You left out...
Electrical components and wiring... Interior trim, door, and instrument panels... Exterior trim and hardware Seats and carpeting... Wheels and tires... Etc. etc. etc....
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Furthermore I will NOT buy goods or services from local merchants that do NOT buy goods and services from US...I always ask veterinarians, doctors, lawyers, etc. what kind of automobile they drive BEFORE I will do business with them...NO MATTER WHAT THEIR COSTS ARE!
If they don't drive American...I don't do business with them PERIOD!
Correct me if I am wrong but aren't so called "Japanese" cars really just japanese designed but really "American made" since their plants are here with some made in Japan or elsewhere? To make them more affordable on our soil?
And if so, plus correct me if I am wrong, but aren't "American" cars american designed but are also made outside the USA? In countries like Mexico, Brazil etc.
If all this is correct then really you are not buying "American made" cars and are supporting foreign as much as domestic labor, Retired. Your statement of buying American made cars is just an illusion or denial & does not justify not doing business with lawyers, doctors, vets etc.
This article came out in 2007 but holds true. Please refute this article if you can and if you can't then rethink what you originally said about buying "american":
"Even GM, long the icon of American industry, hedges its bets. "We're very proud for the economic role we play in this country," says GM spokesman Greg Martin. "However, we're a global car company that happens to be based in the United States."
OK...I'll correct you because you are wrong about MY position...
My statement was...I only buy American products that are MADE in America...
My position on this issue is about AMERICANS and AMERICAN JOBS...PERIOD
Japanese auto companies that build cars in America only hire a handful of American workers to assemble their cars...the management, designers, engineers, and parts suppliers are all in Japan...which takes jobs AWAY from AMERICANS...
Some American cars and trucks are made outside of the USA, therefore I would not buy an American car that was made in Mexico or anywhere else outside of the U.S. because it takes jobs away from AMERICANS...
The UAW has a retreat in northern Michigan where union members go to take classes and such...when you get there the first thing that they do is to check the VIN number on your vehicle...if you are driving an American vehicle that was NOT assembled in AMERICA...you do NOT park in their parking lot...If you are driving ANY foreign vehicle...you are NOT even going to be allowed in...
Their reasoning??? The welfare of AMERICANS and AMERICAN JOBS...PERIOD
buck?
That just ain't right...
I surely recognize your position.
On the other hand? This is a man's world--and men are recognizing the sea change.
Not to mention if you add in all the suppliers that supply parts that we once made.
You left out...
Electrical components and wiring... Interior trim, door, and instrument panels... Exterior trim and hardware Seats and carpeting... Wheels and tires... Etc. etc. etc.... [/QB]
I did cover that with suppliers....
Posts: 2367 | From: Detroit | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Furthermore I will NOT buy goods or services from local merchants that do NOT buy goods and services from US...I always ask veterinarians, doctors, lawyers, etc. what kind of automobile they drive BEFORE I will do business with them...NO MATTER WHAT THEIR COSTS ARE!
If they don't drive American...I don't do business with them PERIOD!
Correct me if I am wrong but aren't so called "Japanese" cars really just japanese designed but really "American made" since their plants are here with some made in Japan or elsewhere? To make them more affordable on our soil?
And if so, plus correct me if I am wrong, but aren't "American" cars american designed but are also made outside the USA? In countries like Mexico, Brazil etc.
If all this is correct then really you are not buying "American made" cars and are supporting foreign as much as domestic labor, Retired. Your statement of buying American made cars is just an illusion or denial & does not justify not doing business with lawyers, doctors, vets etc.
This article came out in 2007 but holds true. Please refute this article if you can and if you can't then rethink what you originally said about buying "american":
"Even GM, long the icon of American industry, hedges its bets. "We're very proud for the economic role we play in this country," says GM spokesman Greg Martin. "However, we're a global car company that happens to be based in the United States."
OK...I'll correct you because you are wrong about MY position...
My statement was...I only buy American products that are MADE in America...
My position on this issue is about AMERICANS and AMERICAN JOBS...PERIOD
Japanese auto companies that build cars in America only hire a handful of American workers to assemble their cars...the management, designers, engineers, and parts suppliers are all in Japan...which takes jobs AWAY from AMERICANS...
Some American cars and trucks are made outside of the USA, therefore I would not buy an American car that was made in Mexico or anywhere else outside of the U.S. because it takes jobs away from AMERICANS...
The UAW has a retreat in northern Michigan where union members go to take classes and such...when you get there the first thing that they do is to check the VIN number on your vehicle...if you are driving an American vehicle that was NOT assembled in AMERICA...you do NOT park in their parking lot...If you are driving ANY foreign vehicle...you are NOT even going to be allowed in...
Their reasoning??? The welfare of AMERICANS and AMERICAN JOBS...PERIOD
buck?
That just ain't right...
I surely recognize your position.
On the other hand? This is a man's world--and men are recognizing the sea change.
Tex...What's "not right" about it?
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)--The White House will give struggling U.S. auto makers $17.4 billion in emergency loans from the Treasury Department's Troubled Asset Relief Program, senior administration officials said Friday. The funds will be distributed in two stages, the first totaling $13.4 billion. A second $4 billion tranche will be available in February, contingent on the release of the second half of the $700 billion TARP. An official said he expected General Motors Corp. (GM) and Chrysler LLC (C.XX) to take advantage of the loans later Friday. Ford Motor Co. (F) has said it doesn't need the emergency cash for now. Under the White House plan, the loans will be called on March 31 if the firms have not proven that they are viable. The terms and conditions of the deal mirror those in the bill that passed the House of Representatives last week. Unlike the House bill, however, the administration's plan doesn't create a specific "car czar." Instead, viability will be determined by a presidential designee. In the waning days of the Bush administration, that will be Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. Firms will be deemed to be viable if they have a positive net present value, taking into account all current and future costs, and can fully repay the government loan. Under the terms of the deal, firms must provide warrants for non-voting stock; accept limits on executive compensation and eliminate perks such as corporate jets; allow the government to examine their books and records; comply with federal fuel efficiency and emissions requirements; and not issue new dividends while they owe the government. Also, the government will have the authority to block transactions over $100 million. Debt owed to the government will be senior to all other debt. The bailout also includes a number of "targets." For example, firms must reduce debts by two-thirds via a debt for equity exchange; make half of VEBA payments in the form of stock; and eliminate the jobs bank. Other targets are for work rules that are competitive with transplant auto manufacturers by Dec. 31, 2009, and wages that are competitive with those of transplant auto manufacturers by Dec. 31, 2009.
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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That will work until March is what the white house says.
What will happen after that any Ideas?
Because it is not going to be full employment and happy consumers with pockets full of cash.
I don't like this but the market can't support all the car lines now so I hope the big three revolutionize the auto industry some how.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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The auto giants may be where they should have begun with the "bailouts" because the auto giants need to fund their loan companies and let buyers have a source of loans for buying cars.
The whole idea in the first place was to free up money that common folks could borrow and they sure missed the target letting a bunch of Wall streeters have control.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Bdgee makes excellent points...
Here's one that people really need to listen to when they hear right wing bullsh!t like UNION WAGES and BENEFITS are the downfall of the domestic automakers...
THE TOTAL LABOR COST IS LESS THAN 10% OF THE TOTAL COST TO BUILD A CAR OR TRUCK...
NOT the cost OF a car or truck...THE COST TO BUILD A CAR OR TRUCK...
If the labor is so reasonable why has GM been headed into the red for the last 5 years? What makes up the other 90% of the cost of the auto?
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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"If the labor is so reasonable why has GM been headed into the red for the last 5 years? What makes up the other 90% of the cost of the auto?"
First of all you premise is false.
Most of the cost of an automobile is in design and tooling and a very large portion is the cost of materials. Actually, advertising is a larger cost =per vehicle than labor.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Well I agree success or failure stands with the consumer ability to purchase vehicles.
When this was easy to do G.M. out sold Toyota world wide and domesticaly. And we are talking thru 2007
With the uaw taking responsibility for health care for the currently employed and retired the pay should the same as the foriegn non union manufactuers are in this country.
The blame for this whole mess lies with wall street and auto manufactuers management who drained there corporations to invest in other countries.And wall street that swindled and cheated for self serving greed into to a filthy republican deregulated greed stampeed. And then getting rewarded for the mess by Paulson who said publicly that he owed no explanation to the American public as to why he changed course on fund distribution and who was to benifit and left the home owner on there own to face this mess.
Where is our outrage this is our money!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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will go along with that just part of the greed stampeed
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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Nah, gas prices shot up - less demand because too high of a spike, then credit crunch and demand way weak - I believe the high gas prices started the spiral towards this deep recession -
And, the credit crunch finished it ---
What I dont understand is HOW anyone let WHO steal so much from middle class and then middle class has to bail out?
Posts: 864 | Registered: Jun 2004
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AP Toyota projects first loss in 70 years Monday December 22, 4:25 pm ET By Yuri Kageyama, AP Business Writer Toyota projects first loss in 70 years, bowing to global slowdown
NAGOYA, Japan (AP) -- Toyota Motor Corp. said Monday it will report the first operating loss in 70 years, acknowledging that after a decade of rapid growth it can no longer escape the slowdown plaguing the global auto industry. The Japanese auto giant also lowered its global vehicle sales forecast for the second time this year and said it was putting ambitious expansion plans on hold, in large part because of a precipitous drop in demand in the key U.S. market. "The tough times are hitting us far faster, wider and deeper than expected," Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe told a gloomy news conference at the company's Nagoya headquarters. "This is an unprecedented crisis requiring urgent action."
Toyota had reported strong growth in recent years, boosted by heavy demand for its fuel-efficient models like the Camry sedan and Prius gas-electric hybrid.
But Watanabe said a severe drop in demand, especially in the U.S., which accounts for one-third of vehicle sales, and profit erosion from a surging yen were too much for Japan's No. 1 automaker. Overall U.S. auto sales fell to their lowest level in 26 years last month.
"The change that has hit the world economy is of a critical scale that comes once in 100 years," Watanabe said.
Toyota said it expects an operating loss of 150 billion yen ($1.66 billion) for the fiscal year ending in March, compared with an operating profit of 2.27 trillion yen ($25.2 billion) a year earlier.
Toyota said it would still post a small net profit of 50 billion yen ($555 million), thanks to outside dividend income, down from year-earlier earnings of 1.7 trillion yen ($18.89 billion). But operating income is seen as the best reflection of its core business.
The outlook was a dramatic change of fortune for the iconic company, which in recent years had outlined ambitious expansion plans and weathered an industry slowdown much better than its U.S. rivals.
Toyota, which started in business as a loom maker, began making trucks and passenger cars in 1937. Its first and only operating loss came the following year, before it started reporting formal results in 1941.
At the time, Toyota was still far behind the American automakers. With World War II, Toyota started a side business making aircraft engines, but that group company switched to making auto parts and sewing machines after the war.
In its forecast, Toyota lowered the number of vehicles it expects to sell globally this calendar year to 8.96 million, down 4 percent from last year. Earlier this year, Toyota had projected worldwide sales of 9.5 million vehicles.
Initially, it had an even more aggressive target of 9.85 million, and expectations had been growing that the tally would reach 10 million in coming years -- allowing Toyota to dethrone General Motors Corp. as the world's top automaker.
Tsuyoshi Mochimaru, auto analyst for Barclays Capital in Tokyo, warned worse may be ahead.
U.S. auto sales aren't expected to start recovering until late 2009, and the dollar -- already at a 13-year low against the yen -- could lag further, he said. A strong yen hurts results because overseas profits must be converted into the Japanese currency.
"The problem is next year," said Mochimaru. "It's unmistakable that things are extremely tough for Toyota."
Watanabe and other Toyota executives repeated a recent announcement that expansion plans will be on hold, including a new plant in Mississippi and projects in India.
Toyota said there were no plans to lay off any full-time employees, though it plans to cut the number of temporary workers at its Japanese plants in half to about 3,000.
Toyota is a relatively old-style Japanese company that offers lifetime employment, and only in recent years has hired and let go of temporary workers to adjust production. It said it was reviewing overseas jobs but had not reached a decision.
Watanabe vowed Toyota would grow so lean it would realize profitability even if its worldwide sales fall as low as 7 million vehicles -- what he called the basic "bottom line" for Toyota.
"We must change to become more slim, muscular and flexible," he said.
The automaker will focus on hybrids and small cars, and invest in ecological technology to prepare for long-term growth, officials said.
While Japan's automakers are in far better financial shape than their cash-strapped American counterparts, the global slowdown is hitting them hard. Last week, Japan's No. automaker, Honda Motor Co., also lowered profit and sales forecasts and declined to give a vehicle sales goal for 2009.
Monday marks the second time Toyota reduced its forecast. Initially, it had projected net profit of 1.25 trillion yen ($13.9 billion) for the fiscal year, but last month lowered that to 550 billion yen ($6.1 billion).
Also Monday, it lowered its revenue forecast to 21.5 trillion yen ($239 billion), down about 18 percent from a year earlier.
Toyota's U.S. vehicles sales plunged by a third on year in November, when overall sales fell to their lowest level in more than 26 years. And there is little hope for a quick fix as consumers hold back big purchases amid a credit crunch, rising unemployment and fears about the future.
The company's stock fell 5 yen, or 0.17 percent, to 2,895 yen in Tokyo. The benchmark Nikkei 225 stock average rose 1.5 percent.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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Toyota Motor Corp. said Monday it will report the first operating loss in 70 years
gee, they are having a worse year than the year after they lost WW2? and people are saying that GM is a screwed up company? blaming losses on unions and organised labor? LOL, what a bunch of idiots. you should have to pass a test to be on radio or run for Congress or Senate....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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So Toyota has no UNIONS. Their pay is rated around $25-28 a hour (I Think). They losing money now. They claim they will cut employees now so that means QUALITY will get worse. They can't afford to discount vehicles because of the currency trade. Hmmmm....Guess you can't blaime the UNIONS for that one huh....wonder what the CNBC CLOWNS and CONGRESS will say about that one. Maybe they will come out with a Magic Bullet Theory and blaime the UNIONS for Toyota's demise.
But seriously, The big 3 all pay about $28 a hour. Add benefits and you have maybe $33 a hour so the $70+ per hour figures are total BS!!! I would really love to see it proven. But I was told that more BUYOUTS for HOURLY and MANAGEMENT is in the process and also that Management is now asking the HOURLY UNION WORKERS to become MANAGEMENT. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone theory. Once they become management, they can replace the Union Worker with a new one getting paid $14 per hour then fire the new boss.
Posts: 2367 | From: Detroit | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: It never ceases to amaze me that we have as many idiots in office, and in the media as we do...
or the number of people that actually BELIEVE the rhetoric that they spew...
There are a lot of idiots to go around. Look how many say they never saw the Real Estate and Financial Services problem coming.
Posts: 3255 | From: Los Angeles California | Registered: Jan 2006
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