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bdgee
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I've never been a fan of the Dole's, partucularly Elizabeth, mostly on major philosophical grounds. But the add she has put out in her senate campaign, essentially announcing that her opponent is an atheist and that atheism is un-Amerivan is beyond the pale.

The Constitution, which essentially DEFINES what being American is, makes it quite clear that ANY sort of religious test for being American and holding office in our Government is inappropriate, i.e., un-American.

I cannot be a fan of or even abide anyone or any group that that takes in vein the most fundamental precepts that make the United States be the United States, one of wqhich is that it is un-American to even suggest that some religion or even any sort of religion at all is a requirement to be in the Senate..

Isn't the refusal to leave free of religious preference in our process of campaigning for political office one of the reason stated by Colin Powell, for him refusing to remain loyal to the republican party?

I am sick to the stomach of pressure being put on our officials to make not being a fundamentalist Christian right-wing extremist a requirement for being American enough to be American or hold public office and even sicker of the attempts to alter the Constitution's provisions to some sort of an evangelically approved set of rules from the right-wing religious extreme's wish list.

I am fed up with any that aren't similarly sick of that whole movement.

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urnso77
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she's obviously just trying to appeal to her base
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Propertymanager
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No one said that Dole's opponent is un-American. However, I think it is valuable to know that she is getting money from atheist groups. Personally, I wouldn't vote for an atheist or someone that promotes their agenda!
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jordanreed
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dont they all have an agenda?

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jordan

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bdgee
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"she's obviously just trying to appeal to her base"

Yes and her base is demanding that the people ignore the Constitution. She and they are, thereby, the ones being un-American!

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"Personally, I wouldn't vote for an atheist or someone that promotes their agenda!"

We already know you have no morals and have no love for the United States or any of its principles.

Moreover, you are a bigoted fool that can't even find or describe what you want to be the, "their agenda", you speak of and, if you could, it would be some lie you cut and pasted off the internet site of some racist hate group you feel close to.

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glassman
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what on earth does beyond the pale mean?

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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i can understand that beyond the pail might imply a cute milkmaid or two [Big Grin]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
what on earth does beyond the pale mean?

It's actually a pretty common turn of phrase glassman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale

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It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
what on earth does beyond the pale mean?

"It means an action that is regarded as outside the limits of acceptable behaviour, which is unacceptable or improper."

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pal2.htm

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glassman
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i guess i should have read Dickens himself instead of the Cliff notes huh? [Big Grin]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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It was probably in there too.

What goes first, I'm told, is that sort of memory.

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jordanreed
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
i can understand that beyond the pail might imply a cute milkmaid or two [Big Grin]

what, no pictures?

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jordan

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rhwdetroit
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This is absolutely silly. So what? Who really cares what Liz has to say. Hardcore dems and pubs alike just crack me up. Isn't calling someone "un-American" pretty much "American?" Wouldn't you rather someone has voiced their opinion other than kept it to themselves? Think of this, If someone really hated you or what you stood for, wouldn't you want to know? Or would you rather they walked by, said hello with a smile on their face while thinking "I would love for you to get into a bad car accident someday." If the belief is that you have to be christian to be elected, wouldn't you want to know that this is how your politician feels? How else would you know who to really vote for? It amazes me that both sides feel people shouldn't say certain things or should have to apologize for the things they do say. I think we should know a politician's preferences up front instead of being surprised later.

If I want to vote for a christian, atheist, alien from another planet, etc. based on the fact that is what they are, then I should be allowed to do so. A politician has the right to demand I vote for them based on what they are or not vote for someone else based on what they are, but I also have the right not to vote for them. That IS constitutional.

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"When you're in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging." -H. Ross Perot

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bdgee
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"This is absolutely silly. So what? Who really cares what Liz has to say."

I do.

And I do indeed think that certain things shouldn't be said, just as I believe people shouldn't have sex in public in view of small children and that "yelling fire in a crowded theater" is not a protected right from the 1st Amendment (Schenck v. U.S. (1919)).

And I certainly believe that there should be no exception made for politicians, who, like the judge's wife, should be held even more rigidly to those standards.

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rhwdetroit
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quote:
"This is absolutely silly. So what? Who really cares what Liz has to say."

I do.

And I do indeed think that certain things shouldn't be said, just as I believe people shouldn't have sex in public in view of small children and that "yelling fire in a crowded theater" is not a protected right from the 1st Amendment (Schenck v. U.S. (1919)).

And I certainly believe that there should be no exception made for politicians, who, like the judge's wife, should be held even more rigidly to those standards.

WHAT? A politician saying that they are for or against something is not the same as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater or having sex in public! If there really is a fire in that crowded room, don't you want someone to yell it? If you don't want to know what your politicians really stand for you are an absolute FOOL!!!!! If you don't know what your party or your opposing party really wants, how do you really know anything? Yes, you should care what they say but it is the things they don't say (pubs AND dems) that should worry you. If someone is a racist, I want to know and I want THEM to tell me! If someone is a christian or hates people because they are christian, I want to know and I want THEM to tell me! Politicians do not give up their rights just because they are running for office! Are you NOT smarter than that or would you just like to go on blindly voting for someone just because they happen to be with your party or not with the other party.

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"When you're in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging." -H. Ross Perot

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jordanreed
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comprehension is essential!

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jordan

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bdgee
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You need to have a serious look at Supreme Court decisions. Politicians do not have a right to incite hate that may result in violence. Someone cut off your education before the buds ever had a chance to develop, let alone before there was any chance of a bloom.

You seem to be the one that needs to get some smarts.

I certainly do want to know what a politician stands for, particularly when they are essentially trying to incite riot. Dole's attack is of the same ilk as those of a Wallace (whom I voted against every chance I got) or the KKK.

I do not "blindly (vote) for someone just because they happen to be with (a) party or not with the other party.", but it does sound like that is what you are proposing.

Your suggestion that you are not any longer a Party line republican is questionable.

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glassman
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you know what's funny?

both of you are right and you are arguing different points.

i'm glad she said it. she's wrong, and she's desperate.

article 6:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

that's pretty clear. requiring someone to swear on the Bible, or swearing to God is clearly against the law of the land...

no ifs ands or buts about it.

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bdgee
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Yes.

And rhwdetroit seems absolutely determimned to leave the impression that I called for Dole to be charged with a crime.

I did not.

I called for us to express horror and disgust at the suggestion by any politician (or anyone else) that any sort of religious preference be established, claimed, or expressed for any position in our Government, because doing so violates the fundamental precepts of the Constitution and is thereby un-American.

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thinkmoney
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An athesit is un-american - - in God we trust-

and, I am tired that a country of majority christians is abused by the minority of athesits, muslims, etc..

And, atheism does have a place in hell and hell on earth as shown by bdgees's values and attitude---

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glassman
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abused? how so?

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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And they let those vote too, third grade drop outs, emotional discards from polite society, illiterates that can't read well enough to figure out what the Constitution is or says, racial bigots,.........
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glassman
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The motto E Pluribus Unum ("from many, one") was approved for use on the Great Seal of the United States in 1782. It still appears on coins and currency, and was widely considered the national motto de facto. However, by 1956 it had not been established so by legislation as the official "national motto". The Congressional Record of 1956 reads: "At the present time the United States has no national motto. The committee deems it most appropriate that 'In God we trust' be so designated as U.S. national motto."

"Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance on June 14, 1954.....

The fact that Eisenhower clearly had Docherty’s rationale in mind as he initiated and consummated this measure is apparent in a letter he wrote in August, 1954. Paraphrasing Docherty’s sermon, Eisenhower said

These words [“under God”] will remind Americans that despite our great physical strength we must remain humble. They will help us to keep constantly in our minds and hearts the spiritual and moral principles which alone give dignity to man, and upon which our way of life is founded.



despite all the propaganda, these references are not historically from the Founders.

they were in fact a direct response to the "Godless commies"...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Propertymanager
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quote:
And they let those vote too
...and they also let those vote that can only communicate in gibberish!
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thinkmoney
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We have a secular education which is a religion in itself. Secular is anthitetical to Christinity...Both are a belief or non-beleif..but both are values towards life..why are the christian majority abused by the minority - I say abused because somehow the secualr minority got their political way - a shame of the christian majority for being apathetic--- If you are a christian and for a christian to see one's kids educated secular is abuse ---

What is abuse?? when someone harms us - well our kids are being harmed by the secular beliefs and the secular folks are happy but the christian majority is being abused and not happy-


All should have a right to equal education of choice not secualr education for all - I have no problem for the atheists to educate as they want but so should the christians -- all equal And all should have taxpayer funds not just the secular left---

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bdgee
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You are sick.
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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by thinkmoney:
An athesit is un-american - - in God we trust-

and, I am tired that a country of majority christians is abused by the minority of athesits, muslims, etc..

And, atheism does have a place in hell and hell on earth as shown by bdgees's values and attitude---

Whose God? your God? My God? The Norsemen's God? Odin? Hindu's Goddess Sheba? ... Define God...

As for abused? I would say it is the other way around... the minority is abused by the majority... it always has and always will be... whether in religion, politics, race etc. History has shown that...

Anyways being an atheist is not UnAmerican... calling someone "UnAmerican" because they do not share your beliefs is in and of itself UnAmerican... this country is about having the freedom to have your own beliefs even if those beliefs are that you do not believe a "God" exists... to say otherwise is truely UnAmerican...

So are you American or UnAmerican thinkmoney? This time think about what I said before you answer...

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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