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Author Topic: Check this out...WAMU CEO gets 20 million for 17 days on the job
CashCowMoo
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,428641,00.html


WaMu Gives New CEO Mega Payout as Bank Fails


Nice work — if you can get fired from it.

That's just what one Alan H. Fishman might have thought when he woke up Friday morning.

Fishman was the new chief executive officer for Washingon Mutual — WaMu — the nation's largest savings and loan, which was taken over Thursday night by federal bank regulators and quickly dumped in a fire sale to JPMorgan Chase for the Wal-Mart-like price of $1.9 billion.

But don't cry for Fishman, who reportedly was sky-high — literally — last night, on a flight from New York to Seattle, when WaMu collapsed. Even though he's only been on the job for less than three weeks, he's bailing out with parachute worth close to $20 million, according to an executive compensation analysis conducted for the New York Times by James F. Reda Associates.

That's right, $20 million for 17 days on the job ... and his company failed.

Fishman, who formerly was chairman of Meridian Capital Group, apparently was much coveted by WaMu, which was counting on him to lead the failing thrift out of mortgage troubles that pushed the bank to a $3.3 billion second-quarter loss.

According to filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, WaMu threw a $7.5 million bonus at Fishman when it hired him on Sept. 8, and guaranteed him an immediate cash severence of $11.6 million — both of which he gets to keep.

He also was eligible for annual bonuses of up to 365 percent of his annual base pay — set at $1 million — to go with millions of shares of company stock.

Fishman does lose out on a big bonus that would have kicked in had he remained on the job through 2009.

Documents show WaMu was going to pay their new boss $8 million to simply not screw up and get fired — all negotiated as the Seattle-based banking giant's loses climbed to an estimated $20 billion

____________________________________________


This stuff makes me sick to my stomach. How could you have such a flawed character to take that? Nobody has integrity on Wall Street.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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Machiavelli
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17 days? lol who can calculate how much per hour or such that is? ... makes traders in the financial markets look like chicken feed...

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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cottonjim
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holy chit, $49,019.60 per hour, even while he slept. Where do I sign up?

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If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by cottonjim:
holy chit, $49,019.60 per hour, even while he slept. Where do I sign up?

here:

 -

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
quote:
Originally posted by cottonjim:
holy chit, $49,019.60 per hour, even while he slept. Where do I sign up?

here:

 -

I don't think you can "sign up". Like with dubya, those jobs come with having a certain parentage.
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cottonjim
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I qualify, I certainly had parentage [Wink]

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If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?

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glassman
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Citi and Wachovia now?

hmmmmm...

we are only going to have a couple of banks when this is all done...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Machiavelli
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It's going to turn into like Wall Street where just a very few big companies control the industry...

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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bond006
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I have seen, smelled,and kicked stuff that a man should not have to and this makes me want to cry before I feel like killing.

This is a total revolting mess they should freez every thing and investigate give the bum a buss ticket and tell him to get the hell out of everybodies sight.

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R1 Man
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Next time someone robs a Bank....they should give them directions to the next bank.

So what happens if you had your house financed with WM? Do you say your bankrupt....I don't owe you crap????

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Relentless.
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
Citi and Wachovia now?

hmmmmm...

we are only going to have a couple of banks when this is all done...

As usual, you have seen the aim of this timeline.
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SeekingFreedom
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Just to play Devil's Advocate...

If the Board of WaMu brought him in on contract for (whatever)millions a year KNOWING they were on the way to the crapper, shouldn't they have to recompense him to some degree? Seeing as how he couldn't do anything in two weeks to stop it, isn't that some form of employment fraud?

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
Just to play Devil's Advocate...

If the Board of WaMu brought him in on contract for (whatever)millions a year KNOWING they were on the way to the crapper, shouldn't they have to recompense him to some degree? Seeing as how he couldn't do anything in two weeks to stop it, isn't that some form of employment fraud?

in a word no... he didn't have to take the job. that was a give-away..

i haven't looked him up to see his past associations, but he may have been hired JUST to broker the deal... so that's his "commission"...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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IWISHIHAD
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Quote Glassman;

"in a word no... he didn't have to take the job. that was a give-away..

i haven't looked him up to see his past associations, but he may have been hired JUST to broker the deal... so that's his "commission"..."

_________________________________________________

I was telling my wife i considered this a finders fee, kinda like finding a treasure with gold in it.

There are other companies out there that bring people in to do this same job it is just not as obvious and usually is a much longer process.

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SeekingFreedom
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:

in a word no... he didn't have to take the job. that was a give-away..

i haven't looked him up to see his past associations, but he may have been hired JUST to broker the deal... so that's his "commission"...

Just curious, is that based on any hard information or just cynical assumptions?
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glassman
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it's based on experience.. taking the job was his decision, offering the bonus was the co's..

the co. didn't hire him to be a dolt...

if he couldn't figure out the co was failing? he wasn't qualified anyway.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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SeekingFreedom
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But that's just my point, how much of the company's financial books did they show to prospective CEO candidates? I mean, if they really were that deep in the hole, why would they transmit that to people they wanted to run the company? If they DID show him they were on the way to the poorhouse and he took the job, then I would have to agree with you that there was some back room dealings going on. Otherwise, it was the business version of Gotcha! Bring in a new CEO and then blame him when things go south within the first month. That is the reason many of the highest paid CEO's have the Golden Parachute clause in their contracts. Regardless of the actual causes, how the company runs (for good or bad) is blamed on the CEO. If they get dumped for 'poor performance' they may never get another job in the industry again. That's why they demand the insurance in case it isn't their fault they get blacklisted.
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glassman
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That is the reason many of the highest paid CEO's have the Golden Parachute clause in their contracts.

that's ridiculous. CEO's are not football players.

the fact is? whenever the "aristocracy" starts taking too much profit? the peasants revolt.

in the last 30 years? CEO's have gone from earning 20 times avg employee pay to 400 times..

the peasants have paid. now they are being told to pay again?

accountability has been removed from the investment encyclopedia... and all business is based in trust..

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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SeekingFreedom
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in the last 30 years? CEO's have gone from earning 20 times avg employee pay to 400 times..

And in that same time period, between consolidation and globalization, the amount of assests that these men and women are being required to direct has increased exponentially as well.


accountability has been removed from the investment encyclopedia... and all business is based in trust..

No arguement there at all. However, that accountability must be properly laid for trust to be earned again.


the fact is? whenever the "aristocracy" starts taking too much profit? the peasants revolt...the peasants have paid. now they are being told to pay again?

An interesting question for you...why has EVERY society through history had 'aristocracy' and 'peasants?' Why have there always been those with influence\money\power and some(many) that haven't any of the above?

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
Quote Glassman;

"in a word no... he didn't have to take the job. that was a give-away..

i haven't looked him up to see his past associations, but he may have been hired JUST to broker the deal... so that's his "commission"..."

_________________________________________________

I was telling my wife i considered this a finders fee, kinda like finding a treasure with gold in it.

There are other companies out there that bring people in to do this same job it is just not as obvious and usually is a much longer process.

More like he put buyer and seller together and collected a fee for that but to me it doesn't look like that at all...

--------------------
Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:

An interesting question for you...why has EVERY society through history had 'aristocracy' and 'peasants?' Why have there always been those with influence\money\power and some(many) that haven't any of the above?

You really dont care too much for poor people do you? To you it's their fault for being poor and for staying poor... your too much of a fanboy of the wealthy... and that's sad... they would chew you and your family up and spit youse out without giving it a thought... you have one vice that im sure your God did not intend and that is the love of money... remember the old saying.... Money is the root of all evil or the love of money...

--------------------
Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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SeekingFreedom
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quote:
Originally posted by Machiavelli:
You really dont care too much for poor people do you? To you it's their fault for being poor and for staying poor... your too much of a fanboy of the wealthy... and that's sad... they would chew you and your family up and spit youse out without giving it a thought... you have one vice that im sure your God did not intend and that is the love of money... remember the old saying.... Money is the root of all evil or the love of money...

I'm curious, Mach, on what do you base that question? As a Christian in general and a Mormon in specific giving to support the poor is a tenet that I adhere to faithfully. As for the love of money quote, did you note the distinction that the Master made? It's not the possession of money, or even the aquisition of money that is the root of evil. It's the LOVE of money. The single minded chase of the dollar without regard for the consequences that leads one astray.

I don't regard the 'rich' and superhuman, but I refuse to jump on the 'all rich people are greedy and dishonest' boat either.

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glassman
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And in that same time period, between consolidation and globalization, the amount of assests that these men and women are being required to direct has increased exponentially as well.

so? that wealth is not trickling down...

actual real income is down...

it's down nationwide EVEN with their outrageous paychecks..

it's trickling out...

they've done a very BAD job of managing it too as is now proven...

in any management situation? the further away management is from the real work? the less likely they are to be aware of the real problems...

exhorbitent income is just one way to insulate oneself from the real work..

ordering your parts from China while you live in the midwest is another...

lastly? gloabalisation requires alot of oil for transportation... oil prices will determine the real value of globalistaion...

when you can ship couch frames from china to NC for upholstering, and ship them back to China for sale at profit? oil is too cheap....

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glassman
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It's the LOVE of money. The single minded chase of the dollar without regard for the consequences that leads one astray.

I don't regard the 'rich' and superhuman, but I refuse to jump on the 'all rich people are greedy and dishonest' boat either.


uh, you seem to take the view that we think all the rich are greedy and dishonest tho...


as for the Master's words? it's not impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, or is it?

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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SeekingFreedom
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uh, you seem to take the view that we think all the rich are greedy and dishonest tho...

If you want, Glass, I'll post some quotes from Mach and others as to why I might have that opinion...such as...

"your too much of a fanboy of the wealthy... and that's sad... they would chew you and your family up and spit youse out without giving it a thought..."

Notice how there is no use of "many" of whom would" or even "most of whom would". It's a generalization. It's always as though the Rich are all made from the same mold. That as soon as one acquires money, they suddenly become immune to human need or morality. This is the way class envy works and why I hate it.

as for the Master's words? it's not impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, or is it?

Most biblical scholars agree that the 'eye of a needle' comment refers to a crowded jerusalem market or side street and not the sewing implement. So while difficult, it is doable.

Finally, I actually would like to hear your answer to why every society has 'aristocrasy' and 'peasants'. I think the answer provides an interesting look into one's perspective.

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glassman
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An interesting question for you...why has EVERY society through history had 'aristocracy' and 'peasants?' Why have there always been those with influence\money\power and some(many) that haven't any of the above?

this might be a shock to you, but there really are people that don't seek power and influence and money... they are competent and qualified yet they fully comprehend that power and responsibiity go hand in hand... and choose not assume the repsonsibility

you stated that for arguments sake you would take the "wealthy" side of this argument.. and you claim to be middle class, so are you satisfied with the job the people that have assumed responsibility have done?

you have made any number of complaints about the status quo...

for instance? welfare.. it wasn't created to help poor people..

it was created to make sure that we don't have a depression starting from the bottom up... we are getting one right now, and like the last one it is coming from the top down...

the war in Iraq? Bush gave everybody a TAX BREAK? LOL... and the economists that say it generates more income get more attention than the economists who disagree... it is not a FACT that supply-side economics work...

in fact? the guy who worked for Reagan that "championed" it later changed his mind...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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Most biblical scholars agree that the 'eye of a needle' comment refers to a crowded jerusalem market or side street and not the sewing implement. So while difficult, it is doable.

do not be so sure..

and "most biblical scholars" is irrelevant..

yes there was a GATE called eye of the needle, but a camel with BAGGAGE could not pass thru...

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
quote:
Originally posted by Machiavelli:
You really dont care too much for poor people do you? To you it's their fault for being poor and for staying poor... your too much of a fanboy of the wealthy... and that's sad... they would chew you and your family up and spit youse out without giving it a thought... you have one vice that im sure your God did not intend and that is the love of money... remember the old saying.... Money is the root of all evil or the love of money...

I'm curious, Mach, on what do you base that question? As a Christian in general and a Mormon in specific giving to support the poor is a tenet that I adhere to faithfully. As for the love of money quote, did you note the distinction that the Master made? It's not the possession of money, or even the aquisition of money that is the root of evil. It's the LOVE of money. The single minded chase of the dollar without regard for the consequences that leads one astray.

I don't regard the 'rich' and superhuman, but I refuse to jump on the 'all rich people are greedy and dishonest' boat either.

Like way too many, you seem to be willing to adopt the notion that the English words you read are the actual words of the original text.

In truth, the thought behind what was translated to "love" that you refer to was NOT THE ENGLISH WORD LOVE. A more accurate translation might be something closer to lust or hunger than love, though that certainly isn't exact either. But that isn't really my point.

To set about believing you are correcting someone else about the the intent of some statement in the bible, when what you are basing your objection on is usage, in the English language, of a word or phrase, is silly. Those guys didn't use English.

And the "Master" didn't choose any of the words of the translation, the translators did.

You do regard the rich far above anyone else, but I am not surprised to hear you say otherwise. It is as easy to see your ever present prejudice against non-rich in what you post as it is to recognize that you don't recognize it is glaringly there.

Why not "jump on the "all rich people are greedy and dishonest" boat? It is every bit as reasonable as the all non-rich people are lazy and unworthy" boat you do ride.

Just the simple truth, sorry....

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SeekingFreedom
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Glass, unless I missed it, I think you still didn't answer the original question. The reason I posed the question is to try and make you (and whoever else is willing) to answer a much more important one...

How much of one's personal responsibility do you really believe in?

Consider this, if you believe that one has no power to affect their lot in life then doing nothing is justified. You give yourself an 'out.' That is the easiest path as the only effort required is, well, no effort at all.

On the other hand, if you do believe that you are responsible for your actions and that they have weight and effect beyond one's self, then you have to accept that the lack of action is in itself a choice.

Either way, if you believe it about one's self, then it translates to one's beliefs about other people and vice versa. To accept(or deny) one's personal responsibility for one's life is to accept(or deny) that others are responsible (or should be) as well.

Which do you believe?

Now, as I've made clear before, I don't believe that everyone has the power\opportunity to become the next Warren Buffet. I do however beleive that with few exceptions, everyone does have the ability to better their lives in some manner. It doesn't have to be economically, it can be any metric that one chooses to measure success by. Money just seems to be a common one in our culture as it happens to be the coin by which most services\education\products are bought with.

Most here place at least a moderately high ranking on money or else they wouldn't be on a stock market based board. Do you believe that they are greedy for that choice? How many of them would do great things with it should they acquire it? Who knows? And if we don't, why do we allow class envy to lump them in with those that haven't?

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The Bigfoot
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An interesting question for you...why has EVERY society through history had 'aristocracy' and 'peasants?' Why have there always been those with influence\money\power and some(many) that haven't any of the above?

Bait your own hook SF. What is your answer?

--------------------
No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
Glass, unless I missed it, I think you still didn't answer the original question. The reason I posed the question is to try and make you (and whoever else is willing) to answer a much more important one...

How much of one's personal responsibility do you really believe in?

Consider this, if you believe that one has no power to affect their lot in life then doing nothing is justified. You give yourself an 'out.' That is the easiest path as the only effort required is, well, no effort at all.

On the other hand, if you do believe that you are responsible for your actions and that they have weight and effect beyond one's self, then you have to accept that the lack of action is in itself a choice.

Either way, if you believe it about one's self, then it translates to one's beliefs about other people and vice versa. To accept(or deny) one's personal responsibility for one's life is to accept(or deny) that others are responsible (or should be) as well.

Which do you believe?

Now, as I've made clear before, I don't believe that everyone has the power\opportunity to become the next Warren Buffet. I do however beleive that with few exceptions, everyone does have the ability to better their lives in some manner. It doesn't have to be economically, it can be any metric that one chooses to measure success by. Money just seems to be a common one in our culture as it happens to be the coin by which most services\education\products are bought with.

Most here place at least a moderately high ranking on money or else they wouldn't be on a stock market based board. Do you believe that they are greedy for that choice? How many of them would do great things with it should they acquire it? Who knows? And if we don't, why do we allow class envy to lump them in with those that haven't?

trust me, I'm not trying to be mean...but you sound like a teen-ager at a swimming-pool party.

You may have a point, but it's hard to hear amid the splish-splash.

Can you clarify?

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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SeekingFreedom
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Bdgee, before you make blanket statements, you could avoid alot of misunderstanding by asking questions before talking.

I speak both english and portuguese. I have read the King James version of the Bible cover to cover in both languages. I understand all too well that the english terms are simply those used that were closest to the original greek. Most of the languages that are closer to the latin base (spanish, portuguese, etc) allow a far greater opportunity to grasp the original concepts as they still have a wider variety of many terms we simplify into one like Love.

So, yes, I actually DO understand some issues involved with translations.

As for the Master not choosing those words in particular, you are absolutely right. They are actually the words Paul chose in a letter to Timothy. But I'm sure you knew that, right?

As for the esteem I have for the rich? It is the same esteem I have for great song writers. It is the same esteem I have for truly great athletes. Other than those who inherited their money (and some of them who made more with their birthright) have accomplished something with their life. They have something that they have dedicated their time to and have acheived their desired goal.

That is worthy of some measure of respect in my opinion.

I find the ever constant vilification of them with no more basis than any other prejudice annoying in the least and disgusting at it's extreme.

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
Glass, unless I missed it, I think you still didn't answer the original question. The reason I posed the question is to try and make you (and whoever else is willing) to answer a much more important one...

How much of one's personal responsibility do you really believe in?

Consider this, if you believe that one has no power to affect their lot in life then doing nothing is justified. You give yourself an 'out.' That is the easiest path as the only effort required is, well, no effort at all.

On the other hand, if you do believe that you are responsible for your actions and that they have weight and effect beyond one's self, then you have to accept that the lack of action is in itself a choice.

Either way, if you believe it about one's self, then it translates to one's beliefs about other people and vice versa. To accept(or deny) one's personal responsibility for one's life is to accept(or deny) that others are responsible (or should be) as well.

Which do you believe?

Now, as I've made clear before, I don't believe that everyone has the power\opportunity to become the next Warren Buffet. I do however beleive that with few exceptions, everyone does have the ability to better their lives in some manner. It doesn't have to be economically, it can be any metric that one chooses to measure success by. Money just seems to be a common one in our culture as it happens to be the coin by which most services\education\products are bought with.

Most here place at least a moderately high ranking on money or else they wouldn't be on a stock market based board. Do you believe that they are greedy for that choice? How many of them would do great things with it should they acquire it? Who knows? And if we don't, why do we allow class envy to lump them in with those that haven't?

Not everyone has the ability to pick themselves out of poverty no matter how hard they try... or life's circumstances just didn't permit it... whatever the reason it happens and those are the people that i believe should be helped with social benefits/programs... afterall if no matter how hard they try to better themselves and it still doesn't work, what do you tell them? and their children? tough luck and starve etc...?

--------------------
Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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T e x
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quote:
. . . the original greek.
wow

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SeekingFreedom
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quote:
Originally posted by T e x:
trust me, I'm not trying to be mean...but you sound like a teen-ager at a swimming-pool party.

You may have a point, but it's hard to hear amid the splish-splash.

Can you clarify?

No worries, Tex, by the way, how are you coming along?

As to the question, here it is in Reader's Digest form...

Do you believe in fate?

If yes, then some are born to succeed and other to fail. Success and failure are predestined. No amount of effort will change things.

Otherwise, each bears responsiblity for the direction their lifes takes (within reason). Some things being out of their control obviously, they can choose how they react to these events\challenges.

Either way, if you believe in it for yourself, do you extend it to others and their lives?

Posts: 1802 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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