posted
But before the mid-1970s, this kind of meltdown didn't happen, because there were regulations and prudent credit standards; low-income people got government help rather than private-market scams -- and there were hardly any defaults. How many more financial scandals will it take before we get back to that model?
Here's where I think the yellow brick road starts to get a little tarnished. Something bad happens and we start crying for big daddy G to come save us.
LET SOME PEOPLE FAIL!!!!
Poor decisions need to have consequnces or they will be repeated. Let some lenders collapse. Let some people lose their homes. Do they end up on the streets? No, they get an apartment while they build their credit back up. The lenders who weren't playing bait and switch games will have a huge market advantage due to the death of their less honest colleagues.
Capatilism works. Just give it time without smothering it in government red tape.
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: LET SOME PEOPLE FAIL!!!!
yes, including the banks making 500,000 loans to mcdonalds cooks.
Let some people lose their homes. Do they end up on the streets? No, they get an apartment while they build their credit back up.
well not always...
ONTARIO, California (Reuters) - Between railroad tracks and beneath the roar of departing planes sits "tent city," a terminus for homeless people. It is not, as might be expected, in a blighted city center, but in the once-booming suburbia of Southern California.
The noisy, dusty camp sprang up in July with 20 residents and now numbers 200 people, including several children, growing as this region east of Los Angeles has been hit by the U.S. housing crisis.
The unraveling of the region known as the Inland Empire reads like a 21st century version of "The Grapes of Wrath," John Steinbeck's novel about families driven from their lands by the Great Depression. http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN1850682120071221
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930
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As far as loans go why do you think these criminals offered these loans to thoes people, The bankers never ment to sevice the loans they made they did the loans to sell.
No crime was commited. They offer a 'bill of goods' as you called it. Noone held a gun to the heads of those who signed up for them.
actually, the crime is duplicitous.
the person that wrote the bad loan and sold it knew exactly what they were doing. they know or should know about the creditworthiness of the borrower, that is their job.
the broker/seller of the loan has a responsibility to the buyer of the loan.
they should be held legally liable by the person that bought the note.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Do you remember buying your first house? The amount of numbers on those sheets would confuse an accountant. It takes time for folks to understand which numbers are important and which are not and there is no re-do. For many folks a home mortgage is the most complicated contract they ever review and are dependent on the lender for it to make sense and be told if it is a good deal or not.
P.S. Welcome to the board and good luck trading. Biggest rule it took me the longest to understand...cash is a position. If your stock is not gaining as expected, sell and wait for it to make sense again or move on to something more stable. Only expect 1 in four of your picks to be winners.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: buying your first house?
i have been thru well over a dozen closings, in every single one of them somebody acted like it was stupid to read the paperwork...
Youre telling me you read that all paperwork everytime? God bless. My ADD wont allow me. WOW how many hours is your closing? I remember racing through signing, ending 2hrs later witha a sore hand.....and a$$
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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posted
One of my neighbors was a loan officer in a big brokerage house. Made zillions of loans to subprime.
He told me all they did was have meetings and classes on how to close and sign a contract.
Another words a way to steal.
When you are poor and don't think you deserve a loan you will close your eyes to alot of things that you sould not, all you know is that you want and some body is offering you a way.
Good salesmen know that and make it sound to easy.
I know that some on this board say so what .
But think why were thoese people targetted for this nobody who sevices a loan lends money like they did for the purpose of servicing the loan ad makeing your money by hard work.
They had different plans and to keep every body in realestate happy they made it possible for every body to get a good cut of the pie and they left with the lions share.
Now the tax payer is stuck with the mess this will make the S&L bail out look like a childs game. By the way you can thank the Bush faamily for that one to.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: buying your first house?
i have been thru well over a dozen closings, in every single one of them somebody acted like it was stupid to read the paperwork...
Youre telling me you read that all paperwork everytime? God bless. My ADD wont allow me. WOW how many hours is your closing? I remember racing through signing, ending 2hrs later witha a sore hand.....and a$$
i read pretty fast, and i know what i'm looking for. and yes, people get annoyed, but they are making the big bucks, they don't mind making me wait outside in the waiting room for an hour.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
Just curious you ever find things they didnt disclose? Just wondering cause im dopey when it comes to that stuff and really did whip right through.
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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quote:Originally posted by rimasco: Just curious you ever find things they didnt disclose? Just wondering cause im dopey when it comes to that stuff and really did whip right through.
yes, many times, but not at closing. i do tend to read stuff as it's made available, and make sure i have it available to me before i show up at closing, that way i'm mostly just verifying that what i have seen before is the same and i can look for surprises.
take a real estate course thru a broker. some of them will pay for it if you want to part-time, some won't. the courses are good places to network too...
the biggest "surprise" i ever got at closing was that i once closed on a house where the owners thought they would stay for two more weeks free... even their agent was trying to tell me that it was "normal" to do this.. i laughed in her face.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by rimasco: Just curious you ever find things they didnt disclose? Just wondering cause im dopey when it comes to that stuff and really did whip right through.
the biggest "surprise" i ever got at closing was that i once closed on a house where the owners thought they would stay for two more weeks free... even their agent was trying to tell me that it was "normal" to do this.. i laughed in her face.
Theyll say anything to get the deal DONE
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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posted
Thanks for the welcome, Big. That makes me feel a little better. Out of our first 10 picks (some of which I took from these boards) only 4 have been in the green. 3 are long termers, imo, like GPGD and the others, well, I haven't lost more than I've made so I can't complain too loudly.
As for reading all the papers, on my first house I looked for four things. Interest type (fixed or adjustable), quick glance through the total fees, final payout if taken to term, and monthly payments. Total reading time: 10 mins. I really do feel that for the most part those things should have been enough for most people to realize they weren't going to be able to make good on the loans. If the lenders deliberately hid things or falsified paperwork then, yes, they should be punished in accordance with the pertaining laws. However, I haven't heard of any allegations of such let alone indictments. This was a case of greedy lenders relaxing standards and people who simply wanted more house than they could afford. Shame on both, but make sure the shame IS on both.
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posted
Oh, forgot one thing. My current house was purchased under a sub-prime loan with an adjustable rate. We had just sold our house (which still showed on my credit at the time), we had another condo that we were renting out to family, and now we were purchasing our current house because the previous owner wanted out and was facing forclosure. Under most circumstances floating a loan to someone who looks like they are going to be making three house payments on one income would be crazy. But one year later we are still here making our payments on time. The condo is sold (which paid off all our bills except a small student loan) and in another year we plan to refinance to a fixed rate mortgage.
These loans were not inherantly evil, economically speaking; they were simply extended to too many people who weren't willing or able to meet their ends of the bargains. I am grateful they were there for my situation and fully intend to do whatever I have to in order to make good on my end of the deal.
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posted
SeekingFreedom is right on (as I would expect from someone in Utah). This entire housing problem was an experiment in social engineering that has gone awry. Do you remember President Bush talking about the home ownership numbers after 2001 when the job numbers weren't doing very well? That became a substitute: a chicken in every pot and a home for everyone, even those that can't afford it! Just drop interest rates; put pressure on banks to make loans to people who weren't qualified; pump money into the economy; and wait for the bubble to appear!
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posted
Curious here...where do you guys see interest rates going in the near future?
I've been trying to follow the MBS Bond market some lately and some folks are saying we might see historic dips yet as MBS bonds adjust to the new 10 yr treasury rates while fueled by people looking for safe securities during the recession.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: SeekingFreedom is right on (as I would expect from someone in Utah). This entire housing problem was an experiment in social engineering that has gone awry. Do you remember President Bush talking about the home ownership numbers after 2001 when the job numbers weren't doing very well? That became a substitute: a chicken in every pot and a home for everyone, even those that can't afford it! Just drop interest rates; put pressure on banks to make loans to people who weren't qualified; pump money into the economy; and wait for the bubble to appear!
i agree with all of your statement except the part about the "noble" motives.
social engineering expirement my azz. it was a conspiracy to defraud the investment public.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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The US Federal Reserve has sent staff into some of Wall Street’s biggest firms and its New York branch is gathering evidence on key traders’ activities as America’s central bank raises its scrutiny of risk to an unprecedented level.
Fed staff have set up shop in Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, and Bear Stearns to monitor their financial condition just days after Henry Paulson, the US Treasury Secretary, proposed that the Fed become the financial industry’s “risk czar”. ....
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930
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