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Author Topic: The real reason why we need to win the war
a surfer
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a good read....IMO.



Some thoughts by a couple of retired USAF gererals.

Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:44 PM Subject: Middle East Imperative

John R. (Jack) Farrington Major General, USAF (Retired)

BY: JIM CASH, Brig. Gen., USAF, Ret.

I wrote recently about the war in Iraq and the larger war against radical Islam, eliciting a number of responses. Let me try and put this conflict in proper perspective.

Understand, the current battle we are engaged in is much bigger than just Iraq. What happens in the next year will affect this country and how our kids and grandkids live throughout their lifetime, and beyond. Radical Islam has been attacking the West since the seventh century. They have been defeated in the past and decimated to the point of taking hundreds of years to recover. But they can never be totally defeated. Their birth rates are so far beyond civilized world rates that in time they recover and attempt to dominate again.

There are eight terror-sponsoring countries that make up the grand threat to the West. Two, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, just need firm pressure from the West to make major reforms. They need to decide who they are really going to support and commit to that support. That answer is simple. They both will support who they think will hang in there until the end, and win. We are not sending very good signals in that direction right now, thanks to the Democrats.

The other six, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea and Libya will require regime change or a major policy shift. Now, let's look more closely.

Afghanistan and Iraq have both had regime changes, but are being fueled by outsiders from Syria and Iran. We have scared Gaddafi's pants off, and he has given up his quest for nuclear weapons, so I don't think Libya is now a threat. North Korea (the non-Islamic threat) can be handled diplomatically by buying them off. They are starving. That leaves Syria and Iran. Syria is like a frightened puppy. Without the support of Iran they will join the stronger side.

So where does that leave us? Sooner, or later, we are going to be forced to confront Iran, and it better be before they gain nuclear capability. In 1989 I served as a Command Director inside the Cheyenne Mountain complex located in Colorado Springs, Colorado for almost three years. My job there was to observe (through lassified means) every missile shot anywhere in the world and assess if it was a threat to the US or Canada. If any shot was threatening to either nation I had only minutes to advise the President, as he had only minutes to respond. I watched Iran and Iraq shoot missiles at each other every day, and all day long, for months. They killed hundreds of thousand of their people. Know why? They were fighting for control of the Middle East and that enormous oil supply.

At that time, they were preoccupied with their internal problems and couldn't care less about toppling the West. Oil prices were fairly stable and we could not see an immediate threat. Well, the worst part of what we have done as a nation in Iraq is to do away with the military capability of one of those nations. Now, Iran has a clear field to dominate the Middle East, since Iraq is no longer a threat to them. They have turned their attention to the only other threat to their dominance, They are convinced they will win, because the US is so divided, and the Democrats (who now control Congress and may control the Presidency in 2008) have openly said we are pulling out.

Do you have any idea what will happen if the entire Middle East turns their support to Iran , which they will obviously do if we pull out? It is not the price of oil we will have to worry about. Oil WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE to this country at any price. I personally would vote for any presidential candidate who did what JFK did with the space program---declare a goal to bring this country to total energy independence in a decade.

Yes, it is about oil. The economy in this country will totally die if that Middle East supply is cut off right now. It will not be a recession. It will be a depression that will make 1929 look like the "good-old-days."

The bottom line here is simple. If Iran is forced to fall in line, the fighting in Iraq will end over night, and the nightmare will be over. One way or another, Iran must be forced to join modern times and the global community. It may mean a real war---if so, now is the time, before we face a nuclear Iran with the capacity to destroy Israel and begin a new ice age. I urge you to read the book "END GAME" by two of our best Middle East experts, true American patriots and retired military generals, Paul Vallely and Tom McInerney. They are our finest, and totally honest in their assessment of why victory in the Middle East is so important, and how it can be won. Proceeds for the book go directly to memorial fund for our fallen soldiers who served the country during the war on terror. You can find that book by going to the Internet through Stand-up America at www. ospreyradio. us or www. rightalk. com.

On the other hand, we have several very angry retired generals today, who evidently have not achieved their lofty goals, and insist on ranting and raving about the war. They are wrong, and doing the country great harm by giving a certain political party reason to use them as experts to back their anti-war claims. You may be one of those who believe nothing could ever be terrible enough to support our going to war. If that is the case I should stop here, as that level of thinking approaches mental disability in this day and age. It is right up there with alien abductions and high altitude seeding through government aircraft contrails. I helped produced those contrails for almost 30 years, and I can assure you we were not seeding the atmosphere. The human race is a war-like population, and if a country is not willing to protect itself, it deserves the consequences. Nuff-said!!!

Now, my last comments will get to the nerve. They will be on politics. I am not a Republican. And, George Bush has made enough mistakes as President to insure my feelings about that for the rest of my life. However, the Democratic Party has moved so far left, they have made me support those farther to the right. I am a conservative who totally supports the Constitution of this country. The only difference between the United States and the South American, third world, dictator infested and ever-changing South American governments, is our US Constitution.

This Republic (note I did not say Democracy) is the longest standing the world has ever known, but it is vulnerable. It would take so little to change it through economic upheaval. There was a time when politicians could disagree, but still work together. We are past that time, and that is the initial step toward the downfall of our form of government.

I think that many view Bush-hating as payback time. The Republicans hated the Clintons and now the Democrats hate Bush. So, both parties are putting their hate toward willingness to do anything for political dominance to include lying and always taking the opposite stand just for the sake of being opposed. JUST HOW GOOD IS THAT FOR OUR COUNTRY?

In my lifetime, after serving in uniform for President's Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, and Bush I have a pretty good feel for which party supported our military, and what military life was like under each of their terms. And, let me assure you that times were best under the Republicans. Service under Jimmy Carter was devastating for all branches of the military. And, Ronald Reagan was truly a salvation. You can choose to listen to enriched newscasters, and foolish people like John Murtha (he is no war hero), Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Michael Moore, Jane Fonda, Harry Reid, Russ Feingold, Hillary Clinton, Ted Kennedy, and on-and-on to include the true fools in Hollywood if you like. If you do, your conclusions will be totally wrong.

The reason that I write, appear on radio talk shows, and do everything I can to denounce those people is simple. THEY ARE PUTTING THEIR THIRST FOR POLITICAL POWER AND QUEST FOR VICTORY IN 2008 ABOVE WHAT IS BEST FOR THIS COUNTRY. I cannot abide that. Pelosi clearly defied the Logan Act by going to Syria, which should have lead to imprisonment of three years and a heavy fine. Jane Fonda did more to prolong the Vietnam war longer than any other human being (as acknowledged by Ho Chi Minh in his writing before he died). She truly should have been indicted for treason, along with her radical husband Tom Hayden, and forced to pay the consequences.

This country has started to soften by not enforcing its laws, which is another indication of a Republic about to fall. All Democrats, along with the Hollywood elite, are sending us headlong into a total defeat in the Middle East, which will finally give Iran total dominance in the region. A lack of oil in the near future will be the final straw that dooms this Republic. However, if we refuse to let this happen and really get serious about an energy self-sufficiency program, this can be avoided.

I am afraid, however, that we are going in the opposite direction. If we elect Hillary Clinton and a Democrat controlled congress, and they carry through with allowing Iran to take control of the Middle East, continue to refuse development of nuclear energy, refuse to allow drilling for new oil, and continue to do nothing but oppose everything Bush, it will be over in terms of what we view as the good life in the USA. Now, do I think that all who do not support the war are un-American---of course not. They just do not understand the importance of total victory in that region. Another failure of George Bush is his inability to explain to the American people why we are there, and why we MUST win. By the way, it is not a war. The war was won four years ago. It is martial law that is under attack by Iranian and Syrian outside influences, and there is a difference.

So, what do I believe? What is the bottom line? I will simply say that the Democratic Party has fielded the foulest, power hungry, anti-country, self absorbed group of individuals that I have observed in my lifetime. Our educational system is partially to blame for allowing the mass of America to be taken in by this group. George Bush has done the best he can with the disabilities that he possesses. A. President must communicate with the people. And, I would tell you that Desert Storm spoiled the people. Bush Senior's 100-hour war convinced the people that technology has progressed to the point that wars could be fought with no casualties and won in very short periods of time. I remember feeling at the time, that this was a tragedy for the US military. To win wars, you must put boots on the ground. When you put boots on the ground, soldiers are going to die. A President must make the war decision wisely, and insure that the cause is right before using his last political option. However, CONTROLLING IRAN AND DEMOCRATIZING THE MIDDLE EAST IS THE ONLY CHOICE IF WE ARE HELL-BENT ON DEPENDING ON THEM FOR OUR FUTURE ENERGY NEEDS.

Jimmy L. Cash, Brig. Gen., USAF, Ret.
Lakeside, Montana 59922

Comment: In my opinion, General Cash is right on target. It is not a question of the Democratic Party or the Republican party, it is a question of survival of the greatest country on earth, the United States of America. I would hope to God we all come together as we did in World War 11. Step up to the plate, act as sensible people, unify, and once and for all, grind this threat to the freedom of our country into oblivion.

Robert V Clements Brig Gen USAF Ret. Carmichael,
CA 95608
"If It Weren't For The United States military" "There Would Be NO United States of America" or "Home of The Free, Because of the Brave"

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Machiavelli
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Iraq was no threat to the freedom of our country but that is besides the point. Iran and North Korea are a different story. But anyways the war won't be won and will be a disaster for years to come. How can you defeat a enemy that does not mind blowing themselves up to kill you?. Remember were the invaders and not the defenders. If it was the other way around perhaps that would be different. When it comes to "wars" of this kind where the enemy resort to guerilla tactics like in Nam I always like to quote one of my favorite lines from The Godfather Part II:

Michael Corleone: I saw a strange thing today. Some rebels were being arrested. One of them pulled the pin on a grenade. He took himself and the captain of the command with him. Now, soldiers are paid to fight; the rebels aren't.

Hyman Roth: What does that tell you?

Michael Corleone: It means they could win.

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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glassman
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George Bush has done the best he can with the disabilities that he possesses.


George Bush's disabilities are the problem...


if this General really believes that we can ever win a war to hold oil in another country and actually pump the oil? he's ignoring his own statements...

To win wars, you must put boots on the ground. When you put boots on the ground, soldiers are going to die.

we already have all the bootleather on the ground we can afford to put there for an extended period of time, and we still can't get the oil to flow at the levels it was before we invaded...

i am a republican, and i believe that the only way we can fix Iraq is to break it into 3 peices and play them against each other while we keep Iran out...

if we open a now "front" with Iran? then there will be no oil coming out of the mideast for an indeterminate amount of time...

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Machiavelli
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ah yeah.. thats a great solution... have the 3 factions destroy each other and cause more destruction.. that really will help us in international relations in the near future... [Roll Eyes]

we caused this mess and we have to clean it up though I don't think that will ever happen whether we stay or leave...

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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glassman
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we have caused alot of the mess...

but? alotof the mess in Iraq was caused by the Brits inthe early 1900's by "making Iraq" a single country anyway...

they aren't a homogenous society and never have been in modern history...


i am not saying we should set them to fighting each other (as in bloodshed) as much as working them against each other politically and economically.. you know? like free trade agreements to the ones that "do better"?

how do we arm them to defend themselves? we can't leave them to be runover by Iran... and Iran will do it if we leave.


i still think simple things like soccer leagues would do alot of good too... soccer leagues in a BIG way... like we have here in the US... with lighted fields etc...
give them something to keep them busy, like we have here.. [Wink]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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T e x
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I could live with a soccer-buildout program...

don't forget co-ed [Big Grin]

"Seminar with the Ronald-boyzzzz" *does* sound better than "Latest Improvised Explovsives," for sure

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
we have caused alot of the mess...

but? alotof the mess in Iraq was caused by the Brits inthe early 1900's by "making Iraq" a single country anyway...

they aren't a homogenous society and never have been in modern history...


i am not saying we should set them to fighting each other (as in bloodshed) as much as working them against each other politically and economically.. you know? like free trade agreements to the ones that "do better"?

how do we arm them to defend themselves? we can't leave them to be runover by Iran... and Iran will do it if we leave.


i still think simple things like soccer leagues would do alot of good too... soccer leagues in a BIG way... like we have here in the US... with lighted fields etc...
give them something to keep them busy, like we have here.. [Wink]

The Brits did the right thing except they should of made 3 nations and not one...

You pretty much insinuated bloodshed and did not make clear what you meant.. as for politics and economics over bloodshed in that country... not going to happen so by leaving and letting them go at each other.. you meant bloodshed...

Honestly... i don't think Iran will invade them if we left... they might try to influence their politicians but invade them... nope... Iran plays the fool but they are no fools... they just like to push us as far as they can but in the end they know not to phuck with us directly like that... that we would attack militarily wise... and nuclear or no nuke program they know we will destroy them... you underestimate Iran and think they are stupid because they sound like a bunch of fanatics... but first and foremost they are politicians....

As for Soccer..well they already do that but right now sports is not the solution...

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Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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The Bigfoot
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I'm sorry, I haven't read through the entire article yet but... wow! He doesn't even make it two paragraphs before he illogically jumps from radical Islam to terrorism as if they were one topic.

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The Bigfoot
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Well, he has a couple very good points but SO MANY glaring assumptions underlie that entire piece. I believe that this man is sincerely trying to debate the issue honestly but I don't buy his argument.

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Lockman
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His suggestions of developing alernate fuels makes sense. We've allowed ourselves to get comfortable burning that oil and now it's comming back to bite us in the a$$.

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Let's Go METS!!!

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfoot:
Well, he has a couple very good points but SO MANY glaring assumptions underlie that entire piece. I believe that this man is sincerely trying to debate the issue honestly but I don't buy his argument.

but he's a General. His whole career has been about waging and winning war. We need the best people doing that,
but,
not all wars are won with bullets and bombs.. this is one of them...

we need to figure out how to motivate the Iraqi people to go to work every day to earn what they can from their oil resources...

they don't seem to understand they could be some of the wealthiest people on the planet, or what that means....

i suspect that there are quite a few small factions in Iraq that are working hard to take it all for themselves, and i don't mean the factions are all Iraqi people...

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The Bigfoot
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The factions at this point are the biggest stumbling block. Previous to that the biggest mistake we made (other than disbanding the army) was contracting the rebuilding work out without requiring at least a 60% Iraqi workforce.

Even just last year studies by NGO's estimated the unemployment rate at 60%.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/c14c2cc0f6c99e87f284df922a039cad.h tm

Heck, there have been riots in France for less. Can they really say this never occurred to the admin and their generals as a problem of potential significance???

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glassman
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Heck, there have been riots in France for less. Can they really say this never occurred to the admin and their generals as a problem of potential significance???

this is one of the things i expected the Democrats in Congress to "bust wide open"...

so far? i'm not hearing much about them investigating waste, abuse and fraud...

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rimasco
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What war? Oh you mean the sustained occupation? The war was won the day their government was toppled....hence "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED".

Cheney probably sent lil Bush to his room when he seen that banner. Explaining to Dubya "now that the REAL WAR is over this is where we make the real money". "Now go tell the people its not over, and if they ask when....DONT GIVE THEM AN ANSWER"

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a surfer
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WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO TURN ON THE TV AND HEAR ANY U.S. PRESIDENT, DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN GIVE THE FOLLOWING SPEECH?
My Fellow Americans: As you all know, the defeat of the Iraq regime has been completed.

Since congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission in Iraq is complete.

This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces from Iraq This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now time to begin the reckoning.


Before m e, I have two lists. One list contains the names of countries which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is short. The United Kingdom , Spain , Bulgaria , Australia , and Poland are some of the countries listed there.

The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of the world's nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of both lists later this evening.

Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war.

The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world Hellholes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption.

Need help with a famine ? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France .

In the future, together with Congress, I will work to redirect this money toward solving the vexi ng social problems we still have at home . On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the earth.

Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France , or maybe China .

I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France , Germany , and Russia . Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. Bon chance, mess amiss.
< BR>I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking tickets to sites where those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and crushed. I don't care about whatever treaty pertains to this. You creeps have tens of thousands of unpaid tickets. Pay those tickets tomorrow or watch your precious Benzes, Beamers and limos be turned over to some of the finest chop shops in the world. I love New York

A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List 2. Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change.

Mex ico is also on List 2 President Fox and his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I will have a couple extra tank and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where I am going to put 'em? Yep, border security.

Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty - starting now.

We are tired of the one-way highway. Immediately, we'll be drilling for oil in Alaska - which will take care of this country's oil needs for decades to come. If you're an environmentalist who opposes this decision, I refer you to List 2 above: pick a country and move there. They care.

It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens. Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying, "darn tootin."

Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America It is time to eliminate homelessness in America . To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thank you guys. We owe you and we won't forget.

To the nations on List 2, a final thought: You might want to learn to speak Arabic.

God bless America . Thank you and good night.

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T e x
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you have a limited appreciation for currency.

sounds "good," though.

Sometimes I rent ol' John Wayne movies for my kids and me. My favorite right now is Big Jake.

"Awww...I wish he wouldna' done that."

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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Machiavelli
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that speech would not be realistic... Oil in Alaska would run out and would not be enough for our thirst... our currency would plummet even more then it already has if we cut aid to alot of those countries because they would cut trade to us or hit us with massive tariffs etc, .... you really didn't think through what you said in that speech and the consequences to us financially which will cause more hunger, loss of jobs, homelessness etc... and btw Fox isn't the Prez of Mexico anymore... so better read up on that country before including it in your "list".... and before you accuse other countries of their political corruption.. you should look at our own political corruptions...

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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glassman
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the consequences to us financially which will cause more hunger, loss of jobs, homelessness etc..

we would not lose any jobs, and we do not need to import ANY food here...

there are no industries except OIL that we cannot supply for ourselves..

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
the consequences to us financially which will cause more hunger, loss of jobs, homelessness etc..

we would not lose any jobs, and we do not need to import ANY food here...

there are no industries except OIL that we cannot supply for ourselves..

oh really? ... I don't think we would have enough food for this nation over time... and with natural disasters such as Katrina etc... or orange crops freezing in Florida etc.. etc.. yes we do need to import some foods... also with inflation running crazy food is getting more expensive and we all know food in other nations is alot cheaper... but thats not the point I meant in that we can't cut off other countries... the survival of this country is Money.. plain and simple... we get that money through business of which global trading is huge part of it... whether you like it or not... as much as not depending on other countries for this or that is noble.. the reality is we would lose our world power over time and would have major problems down the road because of it.... you can take your picks on what problems...

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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glassman
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you need to take a road trip around the country...

we definitely do not NEED to import any foods...

unless you can't live without bananas

oranges and grapefruits are grown in CA Texas and Fla for instance...

suburban development is taking alot of CA groves, but not all, not by a long shot...

food inflation is worldwide right now..
that's because there are fewer and fewer small farm operations..

in fact? a couple of major corporations are close to controlling the world market in grains..

Monsanto, Syngenta, and DOW.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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Comstock
AmberWaves February 2004 >

A decade ago, a scenario in which the value of U.S. agricultural imports would someday exceed that of U.S. exports seemed farfetched. Indeed, the United States has been a net exporter of agricultural products since 1959, an uninterrupted span of 44 years. Today, the improbable has become probable. Since 1996, the agricultural trade surplus has shrunk from $27.3 billion (an all-time high) to $10.5 billion. Although U.S. agricultural exports continue to rise, imports are increasing nearly twice as fast.

The rapid growth of U.S. agricultural imports relative to exports in recent years may come as a surprise to many because the U.S. is still the world’s leading exporter of farm products. In fact, U.S. agricultural exports grew by almost $3 billion in 2003. And, higher commodity prices point to export gains in 2004. But the U.S. is also the world’s largest agricultural importer. Over the last 7 years, U.S. agricultural imports have increased by more than $13 billion, from $32 billion in 1996 to $46 billion in 2003. Agricultural economists Philip Paarlberg and Phil Abbott, both at Purdue University, predict that, if these trends continue, the current agricultural trade surplus will turn into a deficit toward the end of the decade. This forecast is consistent with ERS analysis of U.S. import and export trends.


http://www.ers.usda.gov/AmberWaves/February04/Features/USTradeBalance.htm


the only reason we import food is because our growers have become somewht lazy, they grow waht John Deere makes them eqpt for:

soy beans, corn, and rice

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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the people that want globlisation are on WALL STREET....

globalisation is why the DOW is almost back to 14000 even tho our main street economy has a sucking chest wound...

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Machiavelli
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If you think this country would be as great and powerful if we only had a domestic economy and no trades outside the U.S. your living in a dreamworld...

As for the corporations that have a virtual monopoly on grains in this world... that would be Cargill and ADM... has been for long long time...

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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glassman
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ADM is not a seed producer. they are processors of grain.
COMPANY OVERVIEW

The Company is principally engaged in procuring, transporting, storing, processing, and merchandising agricultural commodities and products. The Company’s operations are classified into three reportable business segments: Oilseeds Processing, Corn Processing, and Agricultural Services. Each of these segments is organized based upon the nature of products and services offered. The Company’s remaining operations are aggregated and classified as Other.



Cargill is the same...

Monsanto, Dow and Syngenta control who gets planting seed and how much they pay for it. worldwide.

over the last decade these three have bought out most all of their smaller compettitors, thereby coming up against the DOJ anti-trust regulators recently when Monsanto bought out Delta Pine and Land....

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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USA : Monsanto to reflect Delta & Pine acquisition in fiscal year 2007
August 31, 2007

As of August 30, 2007, Monsanto Company has provided unaudited pro forma financial information for the company to reflect its acquisition of Delta and Pine Land Company in fiscal year 2007.

This information also reflects accounting associated with the discontinued operations of Monsanto's two former cotton seed businesses, Stoneville and NexGen, which were divested as part of the company's acquisition of Delta and Pine Land Company.


the divestiture was required by anti-trust laws...
they have the seed production business and hence the grain markets all but under their collective thumbs.

these three co's are all worth keeping on your watchlists, one is much better than the others right now, but i don't offer picks anymore.

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IMAKEMONEY
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quote:
Originally posted by T e x:
you have a limited appreciation for currency.

sounds "good," though.

Sometimes I rent ol' John Wayne movies for my kids and me. My favorite right now is Big Jake.

"Awww...I wish he wouldna' done that."

TEX THATS ONE OF MY TOP 3 FAVS! [Cool] [Cool]

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LIFE IS 10% HOW YOU MAKE IT AND 90% HOW YOU TAKE IT!

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Relentless.
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The war was never waged to be won as that was never the intent.
Government has all kinds of powers if at war...
And yes we can do just fine without importing food.
Currently we are paying our farmers to not grow anything... so we can import and foster this idiotic world trade.
I'm fully in favor of all nations trading... we are one people after all.
But the current guidelines for it are asinine and have nothing to do with real trade and have far more to do with keeping people needy.

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IMAKEMONEY
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SUP, R.D. KISS THAT WIFE AND KID!

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LIFE IS 10% HOW YOU MAKE IT AND 90% HOW YOU TAKE IT!

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
ADM is not a seed producer. they are processors of grain.
COMPANY OVERVIEW

The Company is principally engaged in procuring, transporting, storing, processing, and merchandising agricultural commodities and products. The Company’s operations are classified into three reportable business segments: Oilseeds Processing, Corn Processing, and Agricultural Services. Each of these segments is organized based upon the nature of products and services offered. The Company’s remaining operations are aggregated and classified as Other.



Cargill is the same...

Monsanto, Dow and Syngenta control who gets planting seed and how much they pay for it. worldwide.

over the last decade these three have bought out most all of their smaller compettitors, thereby coming up against the DOJ anti-trust regulators recently when Monsanto bought out Delta Pine and Land....

Without processing and/or distribution it doesn't matter who gets what seed. Therefor Cargill & ADM among others have more power. You really should read up more on Cargill/ADM and see the power they wield "privately" in food as well as in politics etc.

Some facts about Cargill:

As of 2007, it is the second largest privately owned company in the USA[6] (Koch Industries is first).

In fiscal year 2007, Cargill declared revenues of $88.3 billion USD, and earnings of $2.34 billion USD.[7]

It is responsible for 25 percent of all United States grain exports.

It supplies approximately 22 percent of the United States domestic meat market.

It employs over 158,000 employees at 1,100 locations in 66 countries.[8]

Some interesting books to read about these companies (read the customer reviews to get a feel for these books contents if you do not wish to read the whole book):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0595142109/ref=s9_asin_title_1/102-2515516-8810 568?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1G9QJA06ZVYRPXTBZS79&pf_rd_t= 101&pf_rd_p=311499101&pf_rd_i=507846

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1568582188/ref=pd_cp_b_3/102-2515516-8810568?pf _rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_r=1YJJJ7D3QDZ3ZCG786K9&pf_rd_t=201&p f_rd_p=252362401&pf_rd_i=0595142109

http://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Giant-Cargill-Transnational-Strategies/dp/074531 9580/ref=pd_sim_b_1/102-2515516-8810568

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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T e x
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the currency of currencies is grain -- Lenin

that's what I remember from my days of writing about this stuff...I suppose things have changed somewhat, but probably not radically.

At that time--when I was active in these pursuits--5 or 7 companies controlled the global grain traffic. From contracts-in-the-field, to railhead, to seaport, to destination. Some reporters were even swayed to "jump ship" from public news to private news, ie, use the same skills as top-notch, mainstream reporters but instead write reports that only the corporate big-wigs see. In other words, they have their own "news service," in a way like we may think of Blackwater for security.

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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it doesn't matter who gets what seed. Therefor Cargill & ADM among others have more power

LOL...
don't tell the growers that..


i'm well aware of both, i did pull that Company Overview above from ADM's 10Q...
i read their 10K every year.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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10of13
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Seems so much of "the reasons for this war" has been "forgotten"...

Here is a females "perspective" (or at least mine):
My home is a kind of a "Monarchy" headed by Myself...the "Mom"...(voted in by the majority because no one else was willing to do it...nope sorry...we don't get to vote again...)

When I "request" that something be done...it is "open" for debate...with the conclusion of a possible different outcome than my original "request"...

When I "say/demand" to do something...it is to be done...period...I usually "allow" for the 3 strike rule...by the 3rd demand..it BEST be done...

Sometimes...an older sibling or spouse may need to "step in" and say.."Hey...mom said to do "this"...now DO IT or you will "answer" to me...if mom hasn't already gotten the belt or given the punishment..."

The older sibling or spouse "stepping in" provides a "backing and support" to the demands that mom has made...and also showing the other younger children that we MUST follow what is expected...if no one else steps in to assist/back "Mom"..it will become a "chain reaction" and all the children would do as they please...with the comments.."Well, you didn't make him do it...why do i have to...? I can do as I WANT...I no longer have to listen to you!"

I view the UN as a type of "Mom" and all of the countries within the UN as the "children"...Iraq was not "doing what was demanded by the UN..."Mom"...the demand was made several times...but Iraq just didn't clean their room completely...so the older sibling...the US stepped in to carry through with what "Mom" demanded...

How many times is the UN suppose to "allow" for the countries to "not clean their room"? At what point is it time for the rest of the family members to "step up" and say "Hey..Mom said do it!"?

That is what the US did..they backed up "Mom"...maybe the US did have other reasons for backing "Mom"...but someone had to...or that "dirty room" would've spread to the whole house!!

And now..."we"/the US is stuck in that room still helping clean it up...BUT..we are also a whole lot closer to all those other siblings rooms that are attempting to "not clean their room"...not only are we closer to those "rooms" but we also have all the cleaning utensils close at hand to move on to the next kid that is saying they don't have to...

Which reminds me...my 17 year old didn't do the dishes...lucky for him..it's only strike 2... [Big Grin]

For the record...dirty dishes...just like this war...suck! [Wink] [Razz]

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#1 Rule: Protect your capital! #2 Rule: Never fall for the BS on the boards!

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a surfer
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nice 10! But dad rules our house hold.....

Yea right.

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glassman
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LOL surfer...

when Mom's not happy? nobody's happy...

what i wanna know is Bush the real Mom or is Cheney? [Big Grin]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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a surfer
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or Bush senior....
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