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bond006
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Senate scuttles troop withdrawal bill By ANNE FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer
3 minutes ago



Senate Republicans scuttled a Democratic proposal ordering troop withdrawals from Iraq in a showdown Wednesday that capped an all-night debate on the war.

The 52-47 vote fell short of the 60 votes needed to cut off debate under Senate rules. It was a sound defeat for Democrats who say the U.S. military campaign, in its fifth year and requiring 158,000 troops, cannot tame the sectarian violence in Iraq.

"We have to get us out of a middle of a civil war" said Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., who chairs the Foreign Relations Committee. A political solution must be found "so when we leave Iraq, we don't just send our children home, we don't have to send our grandchildren back."

As members cast their votes, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice hurried between private meetings with lawmakers in their Capitol Hill offices to make the administration's case for the war.

The Democratic proposal, by Sens. Carl Levin, D-Mich., and Jack Reed, D-R.I., would have required President Bush to start bringing home troops within 120 days and complete the pullout by April 30, 2008. Under the bill, an unspecified number of troops could remain behind to conduct a narrow set of missions: counterterrorism, protecting U.S. assets and training Iraqi security forces.

Republicans were mostly unified in their opposition to sidetrack the legislation, with four exceptions. Three Republicans — Sens. Gordon Smith of Oregon, Olympia Snowe of Maine and Chuck Hagel of Nebraska — announced previously they support setting a deadline on the war.

Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, who is up for re-election next year, also voted to advance the bill. Spokesman Kevin Kelley said Collins believes the measure should be subject to a simple majority vote and not the 60 votes needed to end a filibuster. Kelley said the senator still opposes the legislation.

Other GOP members, while uneasy about the war, said they could not support legislation that would force Bush to adhere to a firm pullout date.

"The amendment tells our enemies when they can take over in Iraq," said Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., who is up for re-election next year.

The bill "is the wrong approach at the wrong time," he added.

Addressing troops in Afghanistan, the Pentagon's top general said that while it's fine for Americans to debate whether to continue the campaign in Iraq, the global war on terror will compel the nation to fight somewhere for at least another 20 to 30 years.

"We can vote to fight it in one place or another. We can do whatever it it is we want to do to have a dialogue about how to fight this enemy," Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in a meeting with soldiers that also was aired live for reporters at the Pentagon. "But the bottom line is that as long as our enemy is sworn to destroy our way of life, we are going to be in a war."

The maneuvering occurred as the Senate debated a broad defense bill that includes a pay raise for the troops, revised regulations for detaining suspects in the war on terror and an increase in the size of the Army and Marines. Following the vote, Reid said he would suspend work on the measure, to which the Democrats sought to attach the troop withdrawal provision, until a date to be determined.

Among lawmakers scheduled to meet with Rice were Biden, Smith, Sen. John Warner, R-Va., and House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio.

The vote came after a rare, round-the-clock session Democrats used to highlight Republican support for Bush's Iraq strategy. Republicans said the all-nighter was a useless political stunt.

"All we have achieved are remarkably similar newspaper accounts of our inflated sense of the drama of this display and our own temporary physical fatigue," said Sen. John McCain of Arizona, presidential candidate and the top Republican on the Armed Services Committe.

Most senators got a chance for a few hours of shuteye even while a handful of their colleagues took turns droning on through the night with floor speeches.

With a half-dozen spectators watching from the gallery, Republicans Collins and Sen. John Thune of South Dakota were among those speaking during the long night, joined by Democrats Bob Menendez of New Jersey, Debbie Stabenow of Michigan and Jim Webb of Virginia. McCain finished his speech around 4:10 a.m. He was followed by White House hopeful Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y.

While the issue was momentous — a war more than four years in duration, costing more than 3,600 U.S. troops their lives — the proceedings were thick with politics.

MoveOn.org, the anti-war group, announced plans for more than 130 events around the country to coincide with the Senate debate, part of an effort to pressure Republicans into allowing a final vote on the legislation. A candlelight vigil and rally across the street from the Capitol was prominent among them, with Democratic leaders attending.

On Tuesday, Republicans Smith and Snowe appeared with Democratic supporters of the legislation at a news conference.

"We are at the crossroads of hope and reality, and the time has come to address reality," said Snowe, who said the Iraqi government was guilty of "serial intransigence" when it came to trying to solve the country's political problems.

Smith, who is seeking re-election next year in Oregon, said Iraqis appeared focused on "revenge, not reconciliation," and that the administration needed to change its approach. "The American mission is to make sure that Iraq doesn't fall into the hands of al-Qaida," he said, rather than referee a civil war.


Copyright © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.

Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bond006
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I bet you if these Republican chicken hawks had there brats serving over there we would be home
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Lockman
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We can withdraw from Iraq, wait awhile and then when the radical Muslims bring the fight to our shores we can withdraw to Canada. I hear they have an excellent health care program.

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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bdgee
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Hey, lock......

I have an idea.

Why don't you and all the war mongering republicans that promised us a-bomb and anthrax storehouses in Iraq go man the trenches in Iraq. Prove you are a loyal and patriotic American. And make sure to enlist your own sons and daughters and they are on the front lines so it will be purely voluntary.

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urnso77
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I heard they have good beer too. It would only be right that Hillary gets elected so that another Clinton depletes our military to levels that Al Qaida will salivate over! Oh boy!

Urn

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bdgee
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Al Qaeda salivates over our invasion and occupation of Iraq and prays that Allah will keep us there.
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turbokid
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or we could not start preemptive wars to begin with.. and most importantly withdraw support, (both financially and militarily) from Israel.
But endless war is whats in the cards, there is no profit in peace.

--------------------
"Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over."
Herbert Hoover 1930

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bdgee
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Sad, but true.

And profit is all the Party really gives a s-it about.....

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turbokid
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BOTH parties...

--------------------
"Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over."
Herbert Hoover 1930

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bdgee
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Yes, but in recent decades, 90% republican.

Keep this in mind. The devil that has put us in this position with the rest of the world and that has installed historically unheard numbers of Party first lackeys throughout the federal Government, particularly in the Courts, is the republican party.

It is the Republican far rightwing extremist anti-Constitutional republican fascist power mongers that are destroying our freedoms and our Nation. Claiming or trying to be fair and balanced by spreading the blame by saying both parties are equally wrong is only providing hiding space and cover for the criminals in power. (And, too, "fair and balanced" is the lie put out by the least fair and balanced and most dishonest of all propaganda systems, Fox News.)

You do your Country no favors by permitting these fascist crooks a way to ricochet the fault of their guilt to any other entity. We can deal with others when there is a need, but we must deal with the evil that is present first.

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jordanreed
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quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
We can withdraw from Iraq, wait awhile and then when the radical Muslims bring the fight to our shores we can withdraw to Canada. I hear they have an excellent health care program.

what is stopping the radical muslims from coming to our shores now?..and..how do you know that? Are you privvy to their thinking? Or what they are doing? All these claims about what they will do, is pure horsesh!t. We have no idea ... ask yourself this,and try to think with intelligence,...WHY do they hate us so? is it because of our freedoms?..of course not.( the minute we are born,our "freedoms" are taken from us). maybe they dont want a Macdonalds next to their mosque. maybe we should get the eff out of their world and start focusing on this country and its people.We are in their G.D. backyard!we have killed way more of their innocent civilians than they ever have of ours. win or lose? we have lost and continue to lose. everyday. the wounds we have suffered,and infilcted, will never be healed. grow up, you warmongers ,and put an end to this deadly machine!we are killing thousands of innocents!what is wrong with us?!

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jordan

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bdgee
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Ego
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CashCowMoo
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you know...a lot of us over here are kind of confused. we look at the news and hear or see congress bickering like children over what to do with us. while they play politics and enjoy a daily pissing contest we are stuck here wondering what they are getting accomplished for us as the SH** goes down daily. is it right for service members to pay the ultimate cost while congress figures out what they want to do with us? no hurry for them..i do give SOME credit. there ARE some there who know exactly what is going on and i applaud them. hell, i wish i could shake their hand and look them in the eye and say thank you.

then...they produce a bill for iraq that is basically a blank check...hundred billion dollars with pork added here and there. they say "hey if you dont sign it you dont support the troops!" then it passes and people say "hey look we support the troops look at our spending bill we just passed!" it always leads to money somehow. if you really supported us you would have found a way to get this mess over with a lot sooner.


now i..i wonder how this is. a certain someone has had 4 years, upwards near 1 trillion in spending money, and the worlds most advanced military and he couldnt lead a positive outcome promised and sworn to the people to get us here. i would say time is up...he had his chance and now someone wants MORE time, and they are talking about MORE troops being added on TOP of the surge? are you kidding me? we sure stirred up a hornets nest over here. im all about fighting terrorism, but i dont remember taliban video tapes coming from baghdad back in 2001 and 2002.

i heard a joke a while back it goes something like this: a guy is asking someone how bush knows saddam has/had weapons of mass destruction" the answer was "because he has the receipt!" funny AND true at the same time!

oh general pace just got here to baghdad the other day. i guess he wants to see what the troops on the ground morale is like. ill tell you what its like right now...its ****. hey what do i know..im just an enlisted grunt out there living it on a daily basis.

im sure general pace will get a great truth when he is surrounded by generals and other high rankers who will tell him everything he wants to hear. not because its right but because their career depends on it. "oh sir we are seeing positive results" "sir we are getting those iraqis on patrols and they are getting better" then...if EVER he goes and talks to the joes who do the work they will be collected into an area and surrounded by higher ups. this is perhaps not purposely for intimidation, but if you raise your hand to speak about morale and certain people are staring at you with eyes that say "you better not say anything that makes us look bad" you kind of just have a one word answer or a few words like "yes sir, doing good" and thats all you say.

id like to see him come talk to us one on one with nobody looking and listening over our shoulders. the fear of the chain of command on how they will treat or view is much too stressing to go ahead and say what is really on a soldiers mind.

like i said...hey im just an enlisted grunt what do i know. if certain people had their way we would be stuck here for 10 years on top of what we have already.

in case some of you didnt see it there were two senators both prior service who initiated a bill that would require mandatory time at home between deployments. basically saying while we do our back to back deployments which just went from 12 to 15 months there has to be a set amount of time to spend with family back home. well that bill was defeated and i have no clue why.

not sure if anyone knew about the deployment extension either...active duty army has now gone from 12 month to 15 month deployments. some brigades are getting only 10 months between rotations to iraq. for what? to build a free iraq? that is a pipe dream and anyone who has spent 2 tours here on the ground will defend that opinion. these people dont want help, they want their traditional way of life!

paul bremmer said in 2003 i think it was "tribal leaders, and tribes have no place in a future democratic iraq" something along those lines. well guess what paul..tribal leaders are what saved ramadi and what has curbed the violence there. these people have been living certain ways for thousands of years and here we come telling them there is a new way in town and its going to be our way or the highway.

islam does not take too kindly to bulldogging. thats why there is such fierce resistance. id say more about this surge, and the COUNTER to this surge by the insurgency but i dont want to get too much into that for certain reasons.


like i said im just an enlisted grunt what do i know. mine and many others of similar rank who work the hardest get the LEAST amount of attention when it comes to what is working and what is not. for you to be an officer, and question the morale of the troops or bringing up low morale into view could b very damaging to your career even if it IS the truth.

one this for sure is that the boys on the ground here are kickin some ass when needed. thats one thing you can be sure of. any islamic army in iraq members, mahdi army, etc come out and want some they get some. thats the great thing about american men on the battlefield...they love to kick some serious ass. problem is we are getting mixed signals. we are (not by choice) putting too much trust into the iraqi police which the ranks are numerous with spies and insurgents posing as opportunity seekers. id say at LEAST 1/3 of iraqi police are crooked, and not crooked like stealing a little money crooked. crooked like im putting an IED on the road at night. they are getting paid by insurgents to place roadside bombs, and then they get paid by whoever is is funding iraqi police payroll...probably the US. you dont hear much talk about that on the news...thats because if any special stories leaked out about that on 60 min...boy oh boy that would be a setback.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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bond006
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To all republican that would have us live in fear of the Iraq terrorist. calm down the right wing will lead you know where.

Don't listen to them or your chickhawk president.

We are not in fear of an attack if that is what you think now. The terrorist have had a lot of time to do something and they have not yet.Since 9/11 and fighting them there is not going to prevent them attacking us on our own soil.

It is our mid east policy and the murder of civilians. And let us not forget our support of dictatorships. And fascist states.

But listen to our President he says they hate us because we let women vote and work.

We also believe in civil government by law and equal rights and are working twards perfection of that goal now. That is why they flew the planes into the twin towers.

This man shrub and his followers are a digrace to our country and comon sense. they should be banned from our country tar and feathers for the lot.Get it over with now and we will be a much happier nation. [Eek!]

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bdgee
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ccm,


That's quite a post.

Thanks.

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ruthie
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[Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!]
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glassman
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if EVER he goes and talks to the joes who do the work they will be collected into an area and surrounded by higher ups. this is perhaps not purposely for intimidation, but if you raise your hand to speak about morale and certain people are staring at you with eyes that say "you better not say anything that makes us look bad" you kind of just have a one word answer or a few words like "yes sir, doing good" and thats all you say.


i hearya, CCM, it was the same when i was in, during peace time...

what's the old story about peeling potatoes? lately i hear they put you on latrine duty instead?

until Pillosi gets her chit together and makes some serious inquiries into som eof this spending? nothing will really change..

Hillary? i am sure she already has her bets placed, and is simply playing the political harp strings...

the sad fact is that we can't leave, but we can change the strategy so that our guys aren't the ones dying...

i hope some people are planning on charging Bush and Cheney for their crimes next summer, orafter they leave office...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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rimasco
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Yeah nice post CCM. I dont even know what our agenda is over there anymore. Like i said before...when did stabilizing a country ever come with war?

The Sauds told US we could have hired the Iraqi army for much cheaper.....before it was disolved.

Hate to say it but that 100 billion dollar bill that just got passed.... is just more extortion from the american people to line the pockets of the no bid contract holders.

Dont matter....when the chit hits the fan?....their dollar will be worthless as well

Be safe CCM

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"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"

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RedFive2007
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I didnt hear any of the Democrats during the election saying that they would be funding the war to protect the troops. It's not even logical.

The No Bid Contractors, and Bush, must have felt like kids in a candy store when that bill came down.

Who needs friends when you got enemies like that.

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