posted
not according to the CIA... Munchie, Fitzgerald and Ashecroft who appointed him, both have impeccable credentials.
i can't find this filed in any other than PDF format, but if you read it? you'll see that Plame was in fact a covert agent who had traveled in secret status overseas many times within the time frame that falls under the secrecy laws... to continue to defend this whole situation is IMO an act supporting treason. i am personally disappointed that more people are not being prosecuted for what they did. and we know they did it because they did it publicly.
read here:
"At the time of the initial unauthorized disclosure in the media of Ms. Wilson's employment relationship with the CIA on 14 July 2003, Ms Wilson was a covert CIA employee for whom the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship with the US."
the underlying issue is that the CIA can't release all of the proof of her classified status to the world because it would compromise other people's work too..
in other words? these guys undermined national security.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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he was a convicted felon... then appealed and lost,then they even assigned him a prison number.. then bush steps in and says "nope" i cant believe the blatant corruption around here.
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930
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he thinks 2 1/2 years was too harsh LoL wouldn't Libby get out in 1 year 4 months for good behavior in probably a Club Fed prison? ... so for now he will be on probation and a $250,000 fine (a drop in the bucket for a politician type)...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
i watched Tony Snow carefully for about a half-hour this morning...
he kept arguing that the probation commission said that Libbby's sentence would be insignificant...
my guess is that Bush tried to please everybody, and to this point, hasn't pleased anybody...
Congress should (if they can) grant Libby immunity overturn his conviction, and bring him up to Capitol Hill for inquiries...
by granting him immunity? he cannot take the 5th... if he refuses to answer? they can find him in contempt...
this brings another isssue to the front..
the Dems may actually wait till Bush is out of office before they really go after the "rest of the gang"... that way Bush can't issue any more pardons...
Bush has shown himself to be unable to comprehend the legal system, he just does whatever he wants to...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
pat buchannon thinks that bush was prob under enormous pressure...and that it had to be realyy hard for bush cuz of his tough on crime policies. in fact chaney couls be applying the pressure to help his good buddy, scooter
posted
rule out Libby pardon By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
President Bush on Tuesday refused to rule out an eventual pardon for former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby.
"As to the future, I rule nothing in and nothing out," the president said a day after commuting Libby's 2 1/2-year prison term in the CIA leak case.
Bush said he had weighed his decision carefully to erase Libby's prison time. He said the jury's conviction of Libby should stand but that the 30-month prison term was too severe.
"I made a judgment, a considered judgment, that I believe was the right decision to make in this case," the president said. "And I stand by it." At the same time, he left the door open for the possibility of a pardon later.
Bush spoke to reporters Tuesday after visiting wounded soldiers at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. His decision was roundly criticized by Democrats; Republicans were more subdued, with some welcoming the decision and but some conservatives saying he should have gone further.
Earlier Tuesday, chief Bush spokesman Tony Snow had declined to rule out the possibility of an eventual pardon and called the president satisfied with his decision to commute Libby's 2 1/2-year prison sentence.
"He thought any jail time was excessive. He did not see fit to have Scooter Libby taken to jail," Snow said.
The spokesman told reporters at a White House briefing that even with Bush's decision, Libby remains with a felony conviction on his record, two years' probation, a $250,000 fine and probable loss of his legal career. "So this is hardly a slap on the wrist," Snow said. "It is a very severe penalty.
U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton, who sentenced Libby to prison, declined Tuesday to discuss the case or his views on sentencing. "To now say anything about sentencing on the heels of yesterday's events will inevitably be construed as comments on the president's commutation decision, which would be inappropriate," the judge said in an e-mail.
With prison seeming all but certain for Libby, Bush on Monday suddenly spared the former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney. His move came just five hours after a federal appeals court panel ruled that Libby could not delay his prison term. The Bureau of Prisons had already assigned Libby a prison identification number.
Snow was pressed several times on whether the president might eventually grant a full pardon to Libby, who had been convicted of lying and conspiracy in the CIA leak investigation. The press secretary declined to say anything categorically.
"The reason I will say I'm not going to close a door on a pardon is simply this: that Scooter Libby may petition for one," Snow said. "But the president has done what he thinks is appropriate to resolve this case."
"There is always a possibility or there's an avenue open for anybody to petition for consideration of a pardon," he added.
Snow did suggest that Bush was "getting pounding on the right for not granting a full pardon."
Asked whether Cheney who calls Libby a friend and who has enormous influence within the White house had pressed for Bush to commute Libby's sentence, Snow said, "I don't have direct knowledge. But on the other hand, the president did consult with most senior officials, and I'm sure that everybody had an opportunity to share their views."
"I'm sure that the vice president may have expressed an opinion ... he may of recused himself. I honestly don't know," Snow said.
However, the president made the decision without seeking any advice from the Office of the Pardon Attorney at the Justice Department, the White House had previously acknowledged.
Snow defended Bush's decision to not follow the usual course of running the matter past the Justice Department, saying details of the case were still fresh in everybody's mind, and that the president did not need to be brought up to date on details of the case.
Democrats have charged cronyism in sparing Libby jail time. But Snow said, "The president does not look upon this as granting a favor to anyone, and to do that is to misconstrue the nature of the deliberations."
"He spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to maintain the faith in the jury system, and he did that by keeping intact the conviction and some of the punishments," Snow said.
Snow was asked by a reporter if anyone in the administration would ever apologize for what prompted the entire investigation public disclosure that Valerie Plame, the wife of sharp anti-war critic Joseph Wilson, was an undercover CIA officer.
"Yeah, it's improper to be leaking those names," Snow said. Pressed on whether someone in the administration owed the American public an apology, Snow said, "I'll apologize. Done."
Wilson, meanwhile, suggested the president's decision was a cover-up attempt to protect Cheney and perhaps his own office. He said Congress should investigate whether the president and Cheney were obstructing justice. "It's about them," Wilson told MSNBC from Santa Fe, New Mexico. Wilson, Plame and their children moved to Santa Fe earlier this year.
In an interview with APTN, Wilson called Bush's action "a continuation of the cover up for which Scooter Libby was originally convicted."
Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald disputed Bush's assertion that the prison term was excessive. Libby was sentenced under the same laws as other criminals, Fitzgerald said. "It is fundamental to the rule of law that all citizens stand before the bar of justice as equals."
Libby's attorney, Theodore Wells, said in a statement that the Libby family was grateful for Bush's action and continued to believe in his innocence.
Because he was not pardoned, Libby remains the highest-ranking White House official convicted of a crime since the Iran-Contra affair.
That didn't stop an avalanche of criticism from Democrats.
"Libby's conviction was the one faint glimmer of accountability for White House efforts to manipulate intelligence and silence critics of the Iraq war," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. "Now, even that small bit of justice has been undone."
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said Bush's decision showed the president "condones criminal conduct."
___
Associated Press Writer Ben Feller contributed to this report.
I say it is time to hang the whole bunch now and get it over with
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"Yeah, it's improper to be leaking those names," Snow said. Pressed on whether someone in the administration owed the American public an apology, Snow said, "I'll apologize. Done."
this particular line here is a good example of their contempt for the American People in general...
i find it amazing that they have any support form anybody anymore considering how they even treat conservatives with this type of contempt...
i dunno what the admission requirements are to become a neo-con... maybe you have to sign something in blood?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
The entire history of the present Bush administration is an example of their contempt for the American people, in particular, and the world in general.
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President Bush did the right thing by commuting the prison sentence of Scooter Libby. This was a totally political prosecution and a travesty of justice. The Drive-Bys and Clintonistas are comparing Libby's conviction to Bill Clinton's perjury, which they said was no big deal at the time. Meanwhile, they've wiped the Clinton pardon scandal from their memory banks. Congratulations to Scooter Libby, and to the president for having the courage to make this decision.
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posted
There was an is no "Clinton pardon scandal" other than in the warped minds of the far right republican evangelical maniacs.
No, no one even slightly bright thinks the monika crap in any way compares to Libby attempting to cover up acts of treason. One was a social non-criminal matter, the other was the most serious of all concerns of a republic. There was no criminal investigation involved with Clinton's faux pas, just a campaign of hate and lies from a bitter republican party. Libby did, sadly successfully, lie and misinform a serious criminal investigation, so as to allow traitorous acts to be covered up and allow the guilty parties to go unpunished.
There is no comparison, except perhaps in the inadequate intellects that push such drivel.
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quote:Originally posted by urnso77: President Bush did the right thing by commuting the prison sentence of Scooter Libby. This was a totally political prosecution and a travesty of justice. The Drive-Bys and Clintonistas are comparing Libby's conviction to Bill Clinton's perjury, which they said was no big deal at the time. Meanwhile, they've wiped the Clinton pardon scandal from their memory banks. Congratulations to Scooter Libby, and to the president for having the courage to make this decision.
so you agree with Bush that Libby is guilty? or not?
Bush doesn't agree with you that it was political, he said the Jury was CORRECT and the prosecutor was CORRECT... you are wrong..
he didn't make a decision. he is keeping him out of jail till he pardons him, and he's blocking Congress from calling Libby to Testify by not pardoning him now. after Bush pardons him? then Bush will be proven for exactly what he is... and as long as the GOP keeps this up? they don't stand for anything.
in the end? this is gonna hurt the GOP even worse, cuz this doesn't end here... there's a lot more left to this story.
everybody wants to have their cake and eat it too...
and i voted for Bush in '00....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
That dang Bush how dare him pardon someone!!
In one of his last acts as president, Clinton grants 140 pardons
Among Americans pardoned today by outgoing President Clinton were, clockwise from left: Henry Cisneros, Patricia Hearst, Susan McDougal, Roger Clinton
January 20, 2001 Web posted at: 12:38 p.m. EST (1738 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Keeping his promise to work until the last hour of the last day of his term in office, President Clinton granted 140 pardons -- including one to his own brother -- before preparing to relinquish power to the incoming Republican administration of George W. Bush.
A vast majority of those who received the last minute pardons are unknown to the public, although the list does include former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Henry Cisneros, Whitewater scandal figure Susan McDougal, Patty Hearst and former CIA Director John Deutch.
News of McDougal's pardon came just one day after the president struck a deal with Independent Counsel Robert Ray effectively ending the Whitewater investigation. In that agreement, Clinton agreed to a five-year suspension of his law license and acknowledged that he gave false testimony under oath in the Monica Lewinsky scandal.
Clinton met into the night Friday with legal and political advisers discussing potential clemency and pardon cases, but decided to delay any announcements until Saturday morning, just hours before he leaves office.
ALSO List of presidential pardons
"He wanted actually to sleep on a few and he went to bed last night doing that and so we'll probably be making an announcement a little later this morning," White House Chief of Staff John Podesta said early Saturday.
A presidential pardon -- providing official forgiveness for criminal wrongdoing -- gives back to convicted criminals benefits enjoyed by a full citizenship.
Clinton stressed that most of the people he would pardon have long since paid their debt to society and that the main intent of his executive action was to lift restrictions on voting and employment.
High-profile people who have received presidential pardons include:
-- Roger Clinton, who was convicted of drug-related charges in the 1980s. He was sentenced to two years in prison after pleading guilty in 1985 to conspiring to distribute cocaine. He cooperated with authorities and testified against other drug defendants.
-- Susan McDougal, a former real estate business partner of the Clintons. She was sentenced in 1996 and released from prison in 1998. She was convicted of four felonies related to a fraudulent $300,000 federally backed loan that she and her husband, James McDougal, never repaid. One tenth of the loan amount was placed briefly in the name of Whitewater Development, the Arkansas real estate venture of the Clintons and the McDougals. Her attorney, Mark Geragos, said he remains hopeful that she would be pardoned, refusing to say whether he has received any indication from the White House that she would be pardoned. She was incarcerated for 21 months.
-- Henry Cisneros, who served as secretary of Housing and Urban Development during Clinton's first term in office. He was convicted of making false statements to FBI agents conducting a background investigation of him when he was nominated to the Cabinet post in 1993. They included misleading investigators about cash payments he made to a former mistress.
-- Former CIA Director John Deutch. The one-time spy chief and top Pentagon official was facing criminal charges in connection with his mishandling of national secrets on a home computer.
-- Patty Hearst, the 19-year-old newspaper heiress who made headlines in 1974 after she was kidnapped by the radical Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA). She was later photographed, machine gun in hand, helping the SLA in a bank robbery attempt. Although Hearst would later maintain she was brainwashed, she was convicted and sentenced to seven years in jail for the robbery. President Carter commuted the sentence after she served two years.
-- Former Navaho Nation chief Peter MacDonald. He has been in a Fort Worth, Texas, medical prison as part of a 14-year sentence for inciting a deadly riot. He was convicted of inciting in Window Riot, Arizona in 1989 after he was removed as Navaho chief amid charges of bribery. Two of his supporters were killed.
Notable figures missing from this list include Leonard Peltier, a Native American convicted of killing FBI agents Ron Williams and Jack Koler in June 1975. Also excluded was Michael Milken, who made billions for himself and others in the 1980s junk-bond business. He spent 22 months in prison and paid $1 billion in fines before his release.
Webster Hubbell, a longtime Clinton friend and former Justice Department official who was convicted of fraud for over billing clients and served 18 months behind bars, was also passed over for a pardon.
In addition to the pardons, the president was debating whether to make one last designation of monument status -- this one for parts of Governors Island in New York City. That decision, too, was put off until Saturday morning, according to senior administration aides.
The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report
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yep, and we've heard how awful he was for doing it from the same people claiming Libby should be pardoned..
Clinton wasn't the first:
# George Steinbrenner (Reagan, 1989) # Armand Hammer (Bush, 1989; pardoned for making illegal contributions to President Nixon's re-election campaign in 1972) # Caspar Weinberger (Bush, 1992)
* full text of President Bush's pardon proclamation
# Edwin L. Cox, Jr. (Bush, 1993; pardoned for bank fraud) # Aslam P. Adam (Bush, 1993; clemency for heroin trafficking) # Joseph Occhipinti (Bush, 1993; commuted sentence for violating the civil rights of accused criminals)
you can see all of the notable presidential pardons listed here:
posted
Libby should have got a ten mimuet trial and a rope.
In stead the filthy traitor gets to walk around free because a a president that should have had his citizenship taken away in the late sixties and buried then gave a commute,
All I can say is birds of a feather flock together.
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no president should be able to pardon/commute for people from that president's administration, or people involved in events the president is/was involved in...
I don't know whether these are Constitutional powers or not, but somebody glossed over that little loophole...
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: no president should be able to pardon/commute for people from that president's administration, or people involved in events the president is/was involved in...
I don't know whether these are Constitutional powers or not, but somebody glossed over that little loophole...
i doubt the founding fathers thought anybody would actually do it, there is no honor in this at all...
especially in a case where the truth is still not known due to the obstruction of justice... and the trail leads right into the the White House...
i doubt that the Framers thought that We The People would ever stand for such nonesense...
Patricia Hearst pardoned, (Carter, 1979; commuted sentence for armed robbery)
IMO? the most unusual thing here is not this commutation, it's how many Bush has seemed to ignore...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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First of all most Presidents pardon people on their way out of office.. thats not a surprise...when you pardon people on your way out of office you are not pardoning saints... so I don't know why people are surprised when it's a criminal that gets pardoned regardless of the crime lol what is a surprise is that Bush commuted his sentence way before he leaves office... as for him pardoning Libby at the end of his office days that won't be a surprise...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
am absolutely not surprised...The Bushes have mocked justice and social integrity for generations. What I'm reacting to is, "well, so-and-so did this" and "such-and-such did that."
Don't mind the chief exec having such powers, but they need to be reined in: Clinton shoudn't be turning loose some of those he did, Nixon shouldn't have gotten a pre-emptive pardon, etc.
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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"He thought any jail time was excessive. He did not see fit to have Scooter Libby taken to jail," Snow said.
So Bush thinks there should be no jail time for lying and obstructing a grand jury investigation. Yet, if I'm not mistaken, as gov of Texas, he executed more people then any other govenor in the history of the country. When did he go soft on crime? In fact, since I haven't heard much outcry from other Republican congressmen, has the whole party gone soft on crime? Obviously, the Republicans lack patriotism and feel that treason against this country is no big deal.
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I think a nice bag of cash is already there in the form of several "defense" funds.
He's worth hundreds of millions already from those and speeches to the followers of Ann Coulter and Fat Rush will bring in millions a year for years to come.
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Dubya was raised to believe he was unrestricted by what encumbers non-ultra rich people and that the ultra rich have privileges way past the citizenship rights the rest of us enjoy, which are trumped by the mere will of any member of the ultra rich, anywhere in the world, any time, for any reason.
Through his schooling, all in private New England institutions which provide "gentlemen's grades" (except for one disasterous attempt and total failure at the University of Texas) and in all his adult escapades into the business world, he has been provided protection from the laws (both criminal and civil). He was taught that he is a menber of a world wide set of people that have all other persons as servants and slaves. He believes that religiously. It is not some new development and his actions and lies from the very beginning of his political career (a failed run for congress, with serious questions remaining about its financing, and an apprenticeship in an Alabama senate campaign, while he was AWOL from assigned active duty in the military) prove it.
Dubya KNOWS he is above any law and superior to any questioning or restriction.
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