posted
I never heard Bush speak like this...what happend to looking into Putins sole and seeing the good-doer and all that mubo-jumbo?
PRAGUE, Czech Republic - President Bush risked further stoking a testy dispute with Russia over a new U.S. missile defense system on Tuesday, saying Moscow has "derailed" once-promising democratic reforms.
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In a speech celebrating democracy's progress around the globe — and calling out places where its reach is either incomplete or lacking — Bush said that free societies emerge "at different speeds in different places" and have to reflect local customs. But he said certain values are universal to all democracies, and rapped several countries for not embracing them.
"In Russia, reforms that once promised to empower citizens have been derailed, with troubling implications for democratic development," Bush said, speaking at a conference of current and former dissidents.
The president asserted that this discussion of democratic backsliding in Russia under the leadership of President Vladimir Putin was just one part of a strong relationship. "America can maintain a friendship and push a nation toward democracy at the same time," Bush said.
But the lecture, however gentle, was not likely to be well-received by Putin, already riled over what he sees as unwelcome meddling by the United States in Russia's sphere of influence.
Most recently, Moscow has become increasingly irritated by U.S. plans to build a missile shield in Eastern Europe, on Russia's doorstep.
U.S. officials have been alarmed by threatening statements from Putin and others over the proposed network. Russia believes the system — with a radar base to be sited in the Czech Republic and interceptor missiles in neighboring Poland — is meant for it. Putin has said he has no choice but to boost his nation's own military potential in response.
Putin warned over the weekend that Moscow could take "retaliatory steps" including aiming nuclear weapons at U.S. military bases in Europe. China on Tuesday joined Russia in saying the shield could touch off a new arms race.
"Part of a good relationship is the ability to talk openly about our disagreements," Bush said in the speech at Czernin Palace. "So the United States will continue to build our relationships with these countries and we will do it without abandoning our principles or our values."
Bush said this same approach applies to other allies with difficult democratic records, naming Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and China.
"China's leaders believe that they can continue to open the nation's economy without also opening its political system," Bush said.
He listed as the nations with the "worst dictatorships," Belarus, Burma, Cuba, North Korea, Sudan, Zimbabwe, Iran and Syria. He also criticized Venezuela, Uzbekistan and Vietnam as places where progress had been made but now "freedom is under assault."
The conference was hosted by Natan Sharansky, a former prisoner of the Soviet regime who has continued to champion freedom, and former Czech President Vaclav Havel, who led the Velvet Revolution that ended communism in the former Czechoslovakia in 1989. The president met with dissidents after the speech.
With the Iraq war raging and that country far from a stable democracy, critics say there is widespread skepticism about Bush's "freedom agenda" — the byproduct of his promise to advance democracy in every corner of the globe.
But Bush claimed the mantle of democratic warrior.
"I pledged America to the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world," he said. "Some have said that qualifies me as a dissident president. If standing for liberty in the world makes me a dissident, then I'll wear the title with pride."
Earlier, Bush defended the plans for the missile shield here against fierce opposition by the local population as well as Russia. Czech leaders chimed in to back him up, as did Poland's prime minister from afar.
"The people of the Czech Republic don't have to choose between being a friend of the United States or a friend with Russia," Bush said at a joint appearance with Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek and President Vaclav Klaus in a high-ceilinged hall of medieval Prague Castle. "You can be both. We don't believe in a zero-sum world."
Standing on soil that was in the Soviet orbit less than 20 years ago, Bush made a declaration not thought necessary for decades: "The Cold War is over."
The once-obvious statement has been rendered less so lately amid an escalating war of words between Washington and Moscow.
So far, the Bush administration has mostly held its rhetorical fire, giving muted reaction such as calling Putin's remarks "not helpful" and repeating its insistence that the network is meant to protect NATO allies against a missile launch from Iran, not Russia. U.S. officials do not want to give Putin the satisfaction of appearing to be engaged in a dispute among equals with the world's only superpower.
But the system is unpopular in the Czech Republic, too, among its wary citizens if not its leaders. People fear becoming a terrorist target, and they worry about Russia's wrath, as well.
Bush, Topolanek and Klaus sought to calm those fears.
Bush said he will make his case directly to Putin Thursday when they meet on the sidelines of the Group of Eight summit in Germany.
"My message will be Vladimir — I call him Vladimir — that you shouldn't fear a missile defense system," Bush said. "As a matter of fact, why don't you cooperate with us on a missile defense system? Why don't you participate with the United States?"
Klaus applauded Bush's promise to make "maximum efforts" with Putin.
Bush was flying from Prague to Germany for the three-day summit. Bush's eight-day European trip also includes stops in Poland, Italy, Albania and Bulgaria.
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Posts: 4005 | From: Shaolin | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
"I never heard Bush speak like this...what happend to looking into Putins sole and seeing the good-doer and all that mubo-jumbo?
PRAGUE, Czech Republic - President Bush risked further stoking a testy dispute with Russia over a new U.S. missile defense system on Tuesday, saying Moscow has "derailed" once-promising democratic reforms. "
Remember postulate 1. BUSH LIES!
He lied then, he lies now, he will lie tomorrow.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Does not matter what any leader in any country on any topic speaks about.....it is Bush's fault?
Katrina-----Bush's fault. Immigration----Bush's fault. North Korea ----Bush's fault. Oil prices-----Bush's fault. next hurricane----Bush's fault. Nick and Jessica's divorce ----Bush's fault. Paris Hilton's jail time ----Bush's fault.
posted
comeon Andrew, if we had dime for every time Bush said we (he and his crew) are learning how to do our jobs? we'd all be rich..
blame him for the things he deserves to be blamed for and ignore the "spin"...
he's gonna end up being blasted hard by the GOP in the next election... and any GOP candidates that try to stand up for him are likely to get run out of office, except for a few states like Utah, and maybe even there...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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It will be interesting on how the GOP candidates defend or Bash him in the debate.
Posts: 1178 | From: Mobile, AL | Registered: Aug 2005
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it's going to be a circus but it's going to be fun... Any GOP candidate that supports what he did in his tenure and the scandals of his administration vs Clinton's for example will lose alot of votes...
Clinton:
1. Whitewater 2. F*cking Gennifer Flowers 3. Trying to F*ck Paula Jones 4. Getting Oral in the Oral office
Bush:
1. a CIA agent being outed & letting a underling take the fall instead of Cheney 2. No WMD's in Iraq 3. His CIA not preventing 9/11 when they had time 4. Gonzalez firing of prosecutors he had no business doing 5. Tapping into american citizen's phones and computers without warrants 6. Suspension of Habeaus Corpus with regards to terror suspects or POW while telling the world how free a country we are, the best justice system, etc.. etc.. 7. Feel free to add to this list....
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
forget your a conservative or liberal Ruthie.. think open minded... tell me what bad has Clinton done in his tenure to this country vs the bad Bush has done? ... do the pro's and con's of both... because imo and most people's... Bush's cons far outweigh Clinton's or any president in the history of this country....
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Their only hope is to vigorously denounce dubya's idiocy and incompetence.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Machiavelli, First off as far as the cia being outed, there is still controversy on that whole situation as far as her identity being compromised twice before the news account that is in question. About the WMD's, intelligence on Iraq's weapons program was flawed, but no one "lied". He acted in good faith given the intelligence provided him.We can thank the DNC for the untruthful and hateful accusation as to "lying" As for Gonzales, he admitted the ousting was mishandled but contended he did nothing legally wrong. As for the CIA not preventing 911 when they could, I do not buy that at all. Tapping into american citizens phone and computers without warrants - this was done in an effort to track possible links to Al Quada. This has been done since 2002 under president's order. The intelligence agency has monitored call and e-mails with good cause. As for the suspending of Habeaus Corpus w/regards to terror suspects or pows for to prevent them from using U.S. legal processes to complicate and delay the quick justice needed. Actually, an unlawful enemy combatant is allowed to know the charges against him and is provided a military lawyer. The law provides the terror suspects with most of the rights americans have. As for Clinton, he failed at reforming health care., I consider lying to a federal grand jury and obstructing justice to conceal his affair a serious problem. Unethical behavior, being a womanizer and lying are serious flaws, and as the leader of the U.S., he was not a leader we nor our children could look up to. There was shame brought to this nation by his behavior. No one is perfect nor will be but his character flaws were serious. Bush has made mistakes, we all know that, but I feel he has done what he truly believes was right and necessary. That is why I said I favored Bush over Clinton.
Posts: 741 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2006
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" About the WMD's, intelligence on Iraq's weapons program was flawed, but no one "lied". He acted in good faith given the intelligence provided him"
Sorry, but Bush lied.
The "intelligence provided him" included the fact that the CIA considered the claim of Saddam getting uranium from Niger not to be credible and Wilson confirmed that assessment (understand......not credible means that Bush was told that it was incredible). That same information was provided to him by several of the European intelligence services (but none of it to Congress), as we now know. This is only one example to demonstrate the lies Bush used to get Congress to grant him authority in Iraq.
Another was a steady promise by Bush that he would never invade Iraq except as a last resort and never until the U.N. had completed its efforts in searching for WMDS. He invaded after telling the U.N. Inspectors to get out well before they had had any chance to complete their mission and he did it with NO CONSIDERATION of other means or methods to gain satisfaction from Saddam.
"First off as far as the cia being outed, there is still controversy on that whole situation as far as her identity being compromised twice before the news account that is in question."
You must have meant "Plame being outed" rather than "the cia being outed", since clearly no one has been accused of outing the CIA.
For everyone that isn't a disciple of the far right and a devotee of Fox News, there never has been any question about those idiotic claims of Fox News that ANYONE other than the Administration made her position as a covert CIA operative known to the world at any time.
Clinton did not lie to a Federal Grand Jury. That was Libby!
Had Bush not stopped all Government anti-terrorism efforts (which he said were foolish and a waste of time and money) and canceled the funds Congress had alloted to that purpose in order to use it for "star wars" (talk about something controversial and foolish!), it is probable that 9/11 could have been thwarted.
So far as you favoring Bush over Clinton, no one doubts that you will favor anyone claiming to be far rightwing republican, even the fascist crew that dominates the current Administration (who certainly don't resemble any class of conservatives I've ever seen...or anyone pro-America).
Since we are nowhere near the time for nominating candidates for the 2008 election, I suggest you wait and find out who those candidates may be before garnering full and directed hatred so as not to waste your time and energy on a looser.
Oh, and THIS Bush and Clinton have not and will not be opposing one another in any U.S. presidential race.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ruthie: Machiavelli, First off as far as the cia being outed, there is still controversy on that whole situation as far as her identity being compromised twice before the news account that is in question. [quote]
She was outed.. there is no excuse... and it came from Cheney's crew... Don't make excuses for the GOP...
[quote] About the WMD's, intelligence on Iraq's weapons program was flawed, but no one "lied". He acted in good faith given the intelligence provided him.We can thank the DNC for the untruthful and hateful accusation as to "lying"
Whether he lied or did so in good faith... he's a idiot for not waiting for confirmation... and Iraq was no threat to us... he used it as a excuse to go in there... for Oil, cause his daddy was threatened or sadaam hurt his feelings, because his daddy did not finish what he started back in 1991.. whatever the reason... point is stop making excuses for him and the GOP... they are men and should take responsibility and take the consequences like men not mice...
quote: As for Gonzales, he admitted the ousting was mishandled but contended he did nothing legally wrong.
hmmm someone who did something wrong saying he did nothing wrong... now that's a first seems to be widespread with the GOP... again stop making excuses for them... he's about to lose his job for a good reason.. and that's that...
quote: As for the CIA not preventing 911 when they could, I do not buy that at all.
It is there job to prevent such things... they were spying on Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups around the world... again stop making excuses for them... Bush took office in Jan. of 2001 and we got attacked in Sept. 2001. that's 9 months they had time to prevent it or got on their trail about a possible attack... it was on Bush's watch period... stop making excuses for them...
quote: Tapping into american citizens phone and computers without warrants - this was done in an effort to track possible links to Al Quada. This has been done since 2002 under president's order. The intelligence agency has monitored call and e-mails with good cause.
Yes it is a good cause but do it legally. There is no excuse for not getting a warrant. They can do it for the Mafia they can do it for terrorists. Either that or don't preach to the world about Democracy. Stop making excuses for them again.
quote:As for the suspending of Habeaus Corpus w/regards to terror suspects or pows for to prevent them from using U.S. legal processes to complicate and delay the quick justice needed. Actually, an unlawful enemy combatant is allowed to know the charges against him and is provided a military lawyer. The law provides the terror suspects with most of the rights americans have.
Here's some interesting facts you find on the net with regards to Guantanamo Bay since 2002:
1. The military has withheld the evidence against detainees asserted to be linked to terrorist organizations or enemy states. In litigation regarding the availability of fundamental rights to those imprisoned at the base, the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized that the detainees "have been imprisoned in territory over which the United States exercises exclusive jurisdiction and control."[13] Therefore, the detainees have the fundamental right to due process of law under the Fifth Amendment. A district court has since held that the "Geneva Conventions applied to the Taliban detainees, but not to members of al Qaeda terrorist organization."[14]
2. On 10 June 2006, three Guantánamo Bay detainees committed suicide. The military reported the men hanged themselves with nooses made of sheets and clothes. One of the men was first detained when he was a juvenile. They each had been imprisoned for the past four years, but never charged with a crime.
3. The closing-down of the Guantánamo Prison has been requested by Amnesty International (May 2005), the United Nations (February 2006) and the European Union (May 2006).
4. Among approximately 500 prisoners in Guantánamo Bay, only 10 have been tried by the Guantanamo military commission, but all cases have been stayed pending the adjustments being made to comply with the Hamdan decision by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Again: STOP MAKING EXCUSES...
quote:As for Clinton, he failed at reforming health care.,
Tell me which President has? ... it's a tough issue that is not easy to solve... This is the only political issue you can name and you got it wrong? lol Our economy had it good with Clinton, we weren't so hated by the world, the whole Welfare system was reformed under him etc. here's Legislature he signed & did good for the country but people like you seem to forget or not acknowledge.(btw it was Congress and not Clinton that killed Healthcare Reform):
Major legislation signed
1993-02-05 - The Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 1993-08-10 - Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 - Raised income tax rates; income tax, top rate: 39.6%; corporate tax: 35% 1993-09-21 - creation of the AmeriCorps volunteer program 1993-11-30 - Brady Bill 1994-09-13 - Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, part of an omnibus crime bill, the federal death penalty was expanded to some 60 different offenses (see Federal assault weapons ban) 1996-02-01 - Communications Decency Act 1996-02-08 - Telecom Reform Act: eliminated major ownership restrictions for radio and television groups. 1996-02-26 - Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act, a welfare reform bill 1996-03-14 - authorized $100 million counter-terrorism agreement with Israel to track down and root out terrorists. 1996-04-09 - Line Item Veto Act 1996-04-24 - Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act 1996-08-20 - Minimum wage Increase Act 1996-09-21 - Defense of Marriage Act, allowed states to refuse recognition of certain same-sex marriages, and defined marriage as between a male and female for purposes of federal law 1997-08-05 - Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 1998-10-28 - Digital Millennium Copyright Act 1998-10-31 - Iraq Liberation Act
quote:I consider lying to a federal grand jury and obstructing justice to conceal his affair a serious problem. Unethical behavior, being a womanizer and lying are serious flaws, and as the leader of the U.S., he was not a leader we nor our children could look up to. There was shame brought to this nation by his behavior. No one is perfect nor will be but his character flaws were serious.
He lied to cover up a affair which should of been a family issue between him and his wife not a act of Congress. It was a excuse for the GOP to oust a Democrat President nothing more. He did wrong but he did wrong with his family and not his office. What Clinton did is nothing compared to what a President like Nixon did. One had a affair and the other authorized break ins, illegal wire tapping , coverups of such etc. Children look up to the President of this country? LoL Children for the most part do not care about any President and for the most part Sex Scandals and such are prevalent in our society if you haven't noticed. You make it sound like it's something they won't find out about or already know about: sex and affairs. And you fault Clinton for his affair? I can name half a dozen GOPer's whose own sex scandals made the headlines yet we didn't spend millions trying to prosecute or get them out of office because of them. We wasted alot of taxpayer money over a affair that should of been between husband and wife. Shame on this country? You should look at Bush's tenure and rethink that.
quote:Bush has made mistakes, we all know that, but I feel he has done what he truly believes was right and necessary. That is why I said I favored Bush over Clinton.
What he thinks is right or necessary is not necessarily right or necessary.He won't listen to anyone but his cronies.Listen to the American people? LoL He thinks he is God who knows was best. Him and his administration has had probably more scandals, broken more laws, have done more coverups, infringe on more freedoms and rights etc. then any other President in the history of this country. So please tell me which administration was worst between Bush and Clinton because so far your argument is Clinton had a affair and he couldn't solve Healthcare Reform (which he tried very hard to do but Congress killed it and you got wrong). Sorry but you better come up with a better argument then that.
P.S. I forgot to add the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq by our military that he sent which reflects on us to the rest of the world besides the abuses at Guantanamo Bay.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ruthie: About the WMD's, intelligence on Iraq's weapons program was flawed, but no one "lied". He acted in good faith given the intelligence provided him.We can thank the DNC for the untruthful and hateful accusation as to "lying"
i wont pick apart the whole post but i do want to take on this little part with some simple quotes...
“We’d be on the campaign plane talking about domestic issues and he’d change the subject and start rattling on about what a great evil Saddam Hussein was and how if he won the election he’d finish what he father failed to do – topple Hussein,” says campaign worker Jerry Caufield who worked for the administration one year before leaving...
On January 21, Bush held his first meeting of the National Security Council in the White House. At that meeting he ordered the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to draw up plans for an invasion of Iraq as, he said, “a contingency.”...
On September 11, 2001, as Air Force One headed out of Florida, Bush turned to chief of staff Andrew Card and said “find out how soon we can be ready to go into Iraq.”
Card told him that preliminary reports pointed towards bin Laden and Afghanistan.
“Forget ****ing Afghanistan,” Bush responded. “Hussein is behind this. I know it. We’re going into Iraq.”
Two years before the September 11 attacks, presidential candidate George W. Bush was already talking privately about the political benefits of attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer, who held many conversations with then-Texas Governor Bush in preparation for a planned autobiography.
“He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999,” said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. “It was on his mind. He said to me: ‘One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.’ And he said, ‘My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.’ He said, ‘If I have a chance to invade….if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency.”
now, all i have to say is, does it really sound like he would have listened if he was told there were no weapons? it was on his mind for years. and they did such a good job on the spin that pre-invasion 3 out of 5 people believed saddam and iraq were behind 911. pretty interesting how things work out.
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930 Posts: 678 | From: currently in hiding due to investigation | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
28% of the people make up the republican loyal and devoted.
28% isn't too far short of 1/3rd.
Think about it.
Almost 1/3rd of the time when you go about your daily travails and trifles, the people you have to deal with either can't or won't think.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Almost 1/3rd of the time when you go about your daily travails and trifles, the people you have to deal with either can't or won't think.
Once again, you have resorted to the use of exaggeration and hyperbole to reach a faulty conclusion.
The fraction 1/3 is equivalent to 33 1/3%. This is 5 1/3% greater than 28%.
A difference of 5 1/3% is not acceptable as a figure of significant statistical difference among most scientific researchers.
You would have had better luck choosing 1/4 as a fraction for the basis of your comparison. The fraction 1/4 is equivalent to 25%, which is only 3% away from 28%.
Does the Munchkin Man have to give you a remedial lesson in fractions too?
Munchkin Man
Posts: 558 | From: Munchkin Man | Registered: Jun 2006
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Look, you mental midget. Statistics is NOT to be seen or heard of within the entire scope of your being.
I did not say 28% is withing a standard deviation of 1/3rd and therefore the difference is statistically insignificant. Also, we are not conducting a scientific experiment, so statistical variation isn't appropriate.
Moreover, my statement was modified by , "Almost 1/3rd of the time..." That's ALMOST, not statistically equivalent to or equivalent to 1/3rd. Can't you read?
If you were capable of giving me lessons in anything it would be being a toady.
I won't offer to tutor you in fractions or anything else, since I don't choose to spend time casting pearls before swine.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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My thanks, glass.., for pointing out my thoughtless slur.
You toads out there please accept my apologies. I meant no disrespect, but do acknowledge I presented it.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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seems to be widespread with the GOP... again stop making excuses for them... he's about to lose his job for a good reason.. and that's that... 
