quote:Originally posted by glassman: right now there is not too much of a uproar about the TB case
i disagree... it has been discussed every day by every TV news outlet i see...
and? if he was an illegal? we wouldn't even KNOW anything about it... cuz he would go undetected, and he wouldn't be flying off to Europe and back...
we have no idea where he got it: CDC officials earlier this week said the genetic fingerprint of the bacteria infecting Speaker did not match any in its library of TB samples.
Personally if i was a European I would be ticked off about it and be ticked off at the ones who let him go fly there. As for the TB. Who knows where he got it from. Perhaps he cheated on his fiancee and caught it from his mistress, his father in law who works in such things, etc. That's not the point, the point is fatal diseases are not exclusive to any one race and should not be mentioned in a sentence as being so. It's like the AIDs scare of the 80's and saying only Gay men carry this disease. We all know that wasn't/isn't true. When you come up with such things you feed into that hatred people have another race, religion, gender etc. Wouldn't you agree on that at least? ...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: if it was a illegal immigrant and he was in the hospital for whatever reason it would be detected as well
it was detected on a chest x-ray when he had a rib injury, in other words? he wouldn't have known he had it if he hadn't injured his ribs.....
TB tests (skin pops) are not given all the time... and they are not a normal admission test as part of an ER visit...
anyone whether legal or illegal could get into a fight break or injured a rib or chest and get that Xray... was just luck (good or bad) this lawyer had a rib injury and it got detected... but that is still not the point... I won't repeat myself about disease and race...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
i can't speak for others, but, IMO, saying people are racist because they are afraid of other countries being reservoirs for disease is a cop-out..
the USA actually has a very low rate of TB per 100,000....
per 100,000 yes it has a low rate.. but overall it has a higher rate then most if not all latin countries... i skimmed the latin countries and they all had 10,000 or less .... USA has 13,000 +... but again like im trying to get you to understand disease does not discriminate based on race.... nor country... Mr. Lawyer can travel to Europe and spread the TB and it's not a immigration issue but if Mr. Mexican crosses the border to U.S. Legally let's say for argument sake.. on vacation or a wedding... then it's a immigration issue because of the latter's race... you wanted to argue the angle that diseases are more prevalent in these countries and your chart showed that most if not all latin countries have less cases of TB overall then the US. ... but I'm trying to say that we shouldn't feed into the racism of this country and attack diseases overall... because anyone can get any disease regardless of geography...China and asian countries have a alarming rates if you want to play the race card.... btw saying that keeping these people out would prevent disease in our country is a cop out because disease exists everywhere...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
YOU are the one making this a race issue IMO...
BTW? the only way to compare rates of disease effectively is per 100,000 people...
your argument is full of holes... this TB guy has gotten lots of greif for traveling with TB but he didn't break any laws on the books. period... you are not making a direct comparison.... Why blame TB traveler if he didn't break laws? The laws of quarantine and public health are untested and unclear. By Susan Filan Senior legal analyst MSNBC Updated: 2:50 p.m. CT June 5, 2007
Susan Filan Senior legal analyst
So is Andrew Speaker public enemy No. 1 or just a poor guy with a bad disease who did whatever he could to get home before dying in an Italian hospital? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19054114/
there have been articles like this all week, so don't try to tel me he hasn't gotten grief and the press isn't all over it..
as for NPTV and Jim Leherer? you say it's not widely watched? that's a laugh... almost 1/3 of the nation watches PBTV each week...
do you know why US citizens are required to get vaccinations when they travel? so they won't spread diseases.... illegals don't do this, now, do they? sheesh...
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: YOU are the one making this a race issue IMO...
BTW? the only way to compare rates of disease effectively is per 100,000 people...
your argument is full of holes... this TB guy has gotten lots of greif for traveling with TB but he didn't break any laws on the books. period... you are not making a direct comparison.... Why blame TB traveler if he didn't break laws? The laws of quarantine and public health are untested and unclear. By Susan Filan Senior legal analyst MSNBC Updated: 2:50 p.m. CT June 5, 2007
Susan Filan Senior legal analyst
So is Andrew Speaker public enemy No. 1 or just a poor guy with a bad disease who did whatever he could to get home before dying in an Italian hospital? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19054114/
there have been articles like this all week, so don't try to tel me he hasn't gotten grief and the press isn't all over it..
as for NPTV and Jim Leherer? you say it's not widely watched? that's a laugh... almost 1/3 of the nation watches PBTV each week...
do you know why US citizens are required to get vaccinations when they travel? so they won't spread diseases.... illegals don't do this, now, do they? sheesh...
I didn't make this a race issue ,other(s) did when they brought up the diseases in this issue. First this was about illegals crossing borders and now it's a free for all of let's blame the immigrants on all of society's ills (crime, disease, taxes, the cost of healthcare etc.). And since everyone keeps bringing up one race in particular for everything "immigrant" related. I'm not saying immigrants do not contribute to some of these ills but to put ALL the blame on them is not being realistic. Alot of factors contribute to those ills and not just immigration. This reminds me of the 1930's when Hitler blamed all of Germany's ills on the Jews and they started "deportations" and such. Not to suggest that anyone here says let's do what Hitler did to them but you can see the parallels of putting the blame of everything on one group of people.
But anyways as for comparing rates of disease per 100,000. I don't think that would be accurate nor fair since no two nation's populations are equal and never will be.
As for Mr. Speaker. He hasn't gotten enough grief in my books. Like I said i have not heard one person discuss his matter offline. But i hear plenty about immigration, iraq war, putin/russia etc. And all we hear is Speaker's side of things the way i see it.
There is no law per say that he broke (this case is kind of unusual perhaps but maybe they will make a law now) but it is just common sense to not travel with such a disease regardless of what the doctors told him. He should of gotten a 2nd and maybe even a third opinion. It is his life and other people's lives including his loved ones afterall. And if true why the hell did his father video tape the doctors saying he can travel? And why not release the video tape or have they? Must be more to this story he or others are not saying. Also I find it hard to believe that the only hospital in the world that can save his life is in America. I am sure there has to be some hospital(s) in Europe that could of treated him. Afterall they are not living in the Dark Ages in terms of medicine in Europe. He just probably has a mindset thinking they do and thats why he came back here. But regardless if he didn't break a law going to Europe he most certainly must of coming back and he knowningly put people's health at risk because by then he knew what he had. My guess is he was selfish and knew what strain of TB he had but he didn't care and wanted to go to his wedding etc. He's a lawyer afterall which are a profession that does not have a great track record about caring about anyone but themselves (not all).
As for the Jim Leherer show and it's viewership. Considering there is a population of roughly 250 million people in this country (counting kids too of course), I doubt it very much that 83 million people watch such a boring show per week. I myself turn the channel or turn the TV off if I come across it. I have better things to watch then that show. I'm not saying it is not widely watched but 1/3 of the population is a exaggerated number when the U.S. population likes to watch other meaningless shows more then anything like Dancing with the Stars, Lost, etc. or whatever is the current flavor. On PBS i watch other shows.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
I have re-read many of your statements regarding illegal immigration into the US. I am still not sure what your solution is to solving the problems that exist in the countries where these illegals are coming from.
It seems to me that you are suggesting that the US should allow this growing problem to continue and the people of the US are supposed to somehow pay the tab.
I think we both know that these illegals cannot or in some cases will not pay their fair share of the bills necessary to stay. Someone has to pay for their care. (medical, etc.) I also know that we have our own citizens who have paid into the system that need these same medical services etc. We also have many homeless people that need a lot more assistance. Many of these homeless have also paid their dues twice (paying taxes and serving their country.)
Our country can support a certain amount of illegal immigrants. With all our other burdens mounting and so many working people taking the hit we cannot continue down this trail. I have never seen such widespread interest in this issue and I believe it is because it is getting totally out of hand.
"If" they really decide to enforce the law and stiffen the penality we will see a big change in the number of people entering this country illegally. Just like there are company "Books" and there are company "Books". There is "Enforcement" and there is "Enforcement." Enforcement of laws designed to stop illegal immigration in the past years reminds me of Sec enforcement of the pennies. In other words - not much.
What i do not understand is why you justify illegal immigration due to the problems of starvation, lack of education, etc in foreign countries. Your solution to fixing the problems in other countries is to send those people to the US and let the US pay and then pay some more, then somehow this will force us to solve all these starvation and education problems in foreign countries.
I have seen these illegals come to this country and work over the years. Yet from what i have seen they do not go back to their native countries after accumulating wealth and quality education in order to improve their native country. I know there must be some who do. But why don't a lot more go back to help?
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quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Machiavelli,
I have re-read many of your statements regarding illegal immigration into the US. I am still not sure what your solution is to solving the problems that exist in the countries where these illegals are coming from.
It seems to me that you are suggesting that the US should allow this growing problem to continue and the people of the US are supposed to somehow pay the tab.
I think we both know that these illegals cannot or in some cases will not pay their fair share of the bills necessary to stay. Someone has to pay for their care. (medical, etc.) I also know that we have our own citizens who have paid into the system that need these same medical services etc. We also have many homeless people that need a lot more assistance. Many of these homeless have also paid their dues twice (paying taxes and serving their country.)
Our country can support a certain amount of illegal immigrants. With all our other burdens mounting and so many working people taking the hit we cannot continue down this trail. I have never seen such widespread interest in this issue and I believe it is because it is getting totally out of hand.
"If" they really decide to enforce the law and stiffen the penality we will see a big change in the number of people entering this country illegally. Just like there are company "Books" and there are company "Books". There is "Enforcement" and there is "Enforcement." Enforcement of laws designed to stop illegal immigration in the past years reminds me of Sec enforcement of the pennies. In other words - not much.
What i do not understand is why you justify illegal immigration due to the problems of starvation, lack of education, etc in foreign countries. Your solution to fixing the problems in other countries is to send those people to the US and let the US pay and then pay some more, then somehow this will force us to solve all these starvation and education problems in foreign countries.
I have seen these illegals come to this country and work over the years. Yet from what i have seen they do not go back to their native countries after accumulating wealth and quality education in order to improve their native country. I know there must be some who do. But why don't a lot more go back to help?
I will address your post tomorrow because it's late tonight and I'm tired... But your totally misunderstanding what I am saying. or some misunderstandings and others you understand. We'll address tomorrow...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
What about them? Were not in any border disputes with Mexico about which is Mexican land or U.S. land anymore... these disputes happened over a 100 years ago...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
The Rio Grand shifts its course fairly often and that brings and new case to the courts every couple of years to argue about what was Texas and Mexico then. It isn't old history, but living history.
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Riparian Rights.... Grrrr.. Pisses me off just thinking about it. I don't know how many boundry dispute surveys I have done over the years just because someone decided 100 years ago that using a river or stream was a good idea for a property boundry.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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posted
Yep, and I remember carbon dating a sunken cypress post to "proove" (legal jargon, not actual proof) it was part of the the fence line spoken of in a hand written land transfer in French Louisianna.
Big rocks on hill sides are not too permanent either and "Big sweetgum tree"s on the bank of the creek are just plain gone!
Worked on one or two deed descriptions myself.
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LOL, today is my day off so I don't want to get too involved in work related discussions... BUT.. If I had a nickle for every time I read:
Thence North Thirty and one half degrees East for a distance of 15 Perches to a Gum Tree, Thence South 41 degrees East for a distance of 32 and one half Perches to a Post, Thence South 11 Degrees West for a distance of 22 perches to a Stone.....
I would be rich and could retire.
I've even heard rumor that a certian deed here in PA has "the post corner of the pen that 'Betsy' the cow sleeps in" as a deed call.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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posted
Yep...there weren't may people back then and they all recognized and saw the same things, knew the others did too, and it was solid and permanent to them.
Any time you get to imagining what see or hear is like anything from just a few years back, go read a few land deed descriptions and you will understand they were not us and we are not them. We live in a world they couldn't recognize and to us, today, they would be like aliens.
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What about them? Were not in any border disputes with Mexico about which is Mexican land or U.S. land anymore... these disputes happened over a 100 years ago...
yeah i was just thinking that since we purchased said property that the previous owner no longer has rights to it and anything otherwise is considerd trespassing. When was the last time the previous owner of your house stopped by and set up camp in your back yard, and swam in your pool? And if someone really did that would you A. have them removed from YOUR property. or B. let them have a free ride and have you pay for thier kids to go to school.
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: The Rio Grand shifts its course fairly often and that brings and new case to the courts every couple of years to argue about what was Texas and Mexico then. It isn't old history, but living history.
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