posted
NR where do you get your history from? rushlimbugger?
Gephart the Dem? he was against it and?
Support from Gingrich
House Speaker Newt Gingrich welcomed Clinton's recommendation for renewing MFN status for China, and vowed to work in a bipartisan manner to ensure that China receives it from Congress.
Gingrich, joined by Reps. Bill Archer (R-Texas) and Philip Crane (R-Ill.), made his comments in a letter to Clinton.
The lawmakers told Clinton, "We welcome the determination you made today to recommend the renewal of MFN trade status for China, and we pledge to work with you in a bipartisan manner to preserve our longstanding policy of commercial and diplomatic engagement with the Chinese. Seeking to keep China open to the West has proven to be the most effective way to advance our democratic values in this turbulent region of the world -- a policy we are committed to maintaining."
House Democratic leader Richard Gephardt issued a statement Wednesday opposing Clinton's plan to extend China's trading status for another year.
Gephardt said China has not significantly improved its human rights record and "America must stand for more than money."
Gephardt has consistently opposed Clinton on China's most-favored-nation status, only to lose when the contentious issues comes to a vote. But Democratic opponents say they have a better shot at defeating the president this year because of new questions about Clinton's China policy.
posted
You and Bdgee need to learn that just because I agree with Bush and the Republicans on some things, doesn't mean I support everything they do so your attempts to tie me to every act of their stupidity are pathetic at best. The sooner you two figure this out, the better we will all get along.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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quote:Originally posted by NaturalResources: You and Bdgee need to learn that just because I agree with Bush on some things, doesn't mean I support everything he does so your attempts to tie me to every act of his stupidity are pathetic at best. The sooner you two figure this out, the better we will all get along.
LOL...
i asked a relevant question.. you act like Clinton is th eroot of all our problems because you are in denial...
i never supported Clinton nor do i now...
Reserves underscore China's financial clout By ANDREW BROWNE (WSJ) Updated: 2006-10-17 11:53
BEIJING -- Sometime in the next few days, China's holdings of foreign currencies and securities will top $1 trillion -- a sum greater than the annual economic output of all but nine countries. The rapid growth in these so-called foreign-exchange reserves has made Beijing a colossus in the financial world, cushioned against shocks at home, but potentially able to trigger them abroad.
How China manages its growing pool of wealth has major repercussions for the global economy. Beijing's reserves totaled $987.9 billion as of Sept. 30 and are growing by roughly $20 billion a month. That total compares with the about $1.2 trillion in assets under management at U.S. mutual-fund giant Fidelity Investments.
see the problem? they aren't commies anymore...
China discloses almost nothing about its reserves, beyond their awesome size. Roughly 70% of the Chinese reserves are believed to be in U.S. dollar assets, 20% in euros and 10% in other currencies, including the Japanese yen and Korean won, according to Brad Setser, an economist at Roubini Global Economics.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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As China's reserves balloon, markets and many U.S. officials believe it to be buying less U.S. Treasury debt, which is explicitly guaranteed by the U.S. government, and more debt issued by U.S. mortgage lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which carries an implicit government guarantee.
The latest data from the U.S. Treasury Department show that, as of June 2005, China's public and private sectors held a total of at least $527.3 billion in U.S. securities, including about $450 billion of long-term U.S. Treasury or agency debt. The composition of its dollar assets suggests that China is a more sophisticated portfolio manager than Japan, which is believed to keep a larger fraction of its $881 billion in reserves in short-term U.S. securities. But the Treasury's figures may underestimate China's holdings because the U.S. government can't always identify the ultimate owner of its debt.
trust 'em enough to own our debt, but not enough to stop NKorea... nah.... its in their interest too...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
Also, other that a few cosmetic/diplomatic gestures, I don't really see China doing anything. They want NK to be communist and they want NK as a buffer zone between US forces in SK and Japan. They also do not want a border shared with a nation that does not reflect their communist views.
You say China isn't communist?!?! LOL. You better repeat that, I want to make sure I read it right.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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quote:Originally posted by NaturalResources: Also, other that a few cosmetic/diplomatic gestures, I don't really see China doing anything. They want NK to be communist and they want NK as a buffer zone between US forces in SK and Japan. They also do not want a border shared with a nation that does not reflect their communist views.
You say China isn't communist?!?! LOL. You better repeat that, I want to make sure I read it right.
if you don't see it? it's cuz you don't want to...
what makes them communist versus capitalist? the govt owns everything? they have moved far away from true communism.. and move further every day...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Last Updated: Wednesday, 19 April 2006, 05:36 GMT 06:36 UK Chinese president begins US tour President Hu Jintao with Microsoft founder Bill Gates Hu Jintao is spending two days in Washington state Chinese President Hu Jintao has met Microsoft founder Bill Gates at the start of a four-day visit to the US.
Mr Hu arrived in Seattle on Tuesday for a tour of Washington state before talks on Thursday with the US president.
His high-profile tour comes as anger grows in the US about the size of its trade deficit with China.
Mr Hu will also visit Boeing's offices - both Microsoft and Boeing have recently signed large commercial agreements with Chinese counterparts.
Mr Hu told the governor of Washington state, Chris Gregoire, that he had chosen to visit Seattle because the state had "very good cooperative relations" with China.
He said the tour of the Microsoft campus "left a strong impression" on him and he praised the company for its innovation.
He emphasised China's commitment to action against software piracy.
posted
Glass.... funny how you leave out the part about Bill Gates selling versions of windows that can be censored by the communist government so that Chinese citizens won't read the websites of the dirty imperialist Americans.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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posted
By the way, I do agree that economically China has moved away from communism, but only because they know they have to in order to survive. They learned this from watching the collapse of the USSR.
Socially however, things are much the same as they were when the communists first took over China....
IMO, to say China is no longer communist is only a half-truth. Sure, they are not true communist, but only because they are forced to be.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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posted
NR, Clinton didn't break the argeements with NK, dubya did, first thing after he was in office.
NK was going along with them fine and had stopped all development of nuclear weapons until then, no matter what you get from Fox News.
They restarted those prograams after dubya refused to comply, not before.
To all of you, I point out that stopping the NK nuclear weapons program now leaves a whole collection of unemployed nuclear weapons experts for sale to the highest bidder.
Tha time to stop it was before, not after it succeded.
Refusing to communicate with those that don't promise to agree 100% with your scheme to domination of the world is no way to run a world.
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quote:Originally posted by NaturalResources: Glass.... funny how you leave out the part about Bill Gates selling versions of windows that can be censored by the communist government so that Chinese citizens won't read the websites of the dirty imperialist Americans.
see? now you want to make me into something i'm not (again)...
i already toldja i don't like US borrowing ANY money from them..
i don't like our trade deficit with ANYBODY.. and you wanna try to imply i'm a sympathiser with the filthy furrinners..
it's not like i want the little Nkorean bstrd around either..
i'm just being realistic... China WILL fix the problem... even Bush knows this... Rice is over there now making sure...
have you done any reading on S Korea's position in this?
i doubt it...
cuz they doon't like peole like you telling them what they are gonna have to do either... nobody does... and when you do TRY to tell somebody what they have to do? you better make sure you can back it up...cuz one failure leads to another... Bush has made a fool of himself in fron tof the world...
as far as assassiantions go? in a declared war? or if we did have trials in absentia? i wouldn't have a problem... just because i bring up issues to argue over doesn't mean i am saying it shouldn't be done.... this al-Sadr character in Iraq? i am wondering why he survived this long... he shoulda been removed wehn he was in Najaf a long time ago...
i brought up these issues for discussion... seems to me a major part of the problem in US politics now is there is NO discussion anymore...
kinda like dubya telling everybody what the democrats are gonna do instead of having the dems tell US...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by NaturalResources: By the way, I do agree that economically China has moved away from communism, but only because they know they have to in order to survive. They learned this from watching the collapse of the USSR.
Socially however, things are much the same as they were when the communists first took over China....
IMO, to say China is no longer communist is only a half-truth. Sure, they are not true communist, but only because they are forced to be.
uh? don't tell that to the Chinese people that shop at WalMarts
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
The USSR collapsed from spending a million dollars for every dollar Ben laden spent tormenting them. It had absolutely nothing to do with their economic system.
Ben Laden has even promissed to accomplish the same thing in the same way with the U.S. and at the present rate, he will succede.
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posted
I chat with people from China in Instant Messenger and trust me they are becoming more capitalist everyday. Yes the Gov't is still Communist but it's only a matter of time before that changes even if it takes a few more decades. Oh about them blocking our dirty American sites. My chinese friends do not seem to have any problems accessing our sites because I have sent them our media sites and such. They are very eager to learn what goes on in our country in terms of culture and news. They also read our sites to practice their english reading skills.
Anyways I suppose I am the only one who thinks our being trade partners and friends with China is a good thing. One benefits the other and vice versa. We have always had this attitude that we can only export to other countries and not allow them to import to us in return.And country's lending to us is a bad thing but us lending to other country's is a good thing? Again the same attitude that it can and should only go one way and not the other.
And the whole blaming Clinton on our partnering with China thing is stupid and lame. No matter who was Prez, Rep or Dem, it was going to happen eventually. It is/was the logical smart move business wise for our own capitalist interests to do business with the most populous nation on earth.To avoid that would be economic suicide and inviting other economic powerhouses like Germany and Japan to move right in and reap the awards while we stand back and let them with our "sticks" in our hands.
BTW if you want to play the blame game and I'm not but if you wanted to and be childish then wasn't the walls between us and China torn down by a former President named Nixon who also happened to be a Republican. But anyways grow up because we are doing business with the most populous nation on earth and in the end we will reap the awards financially more then Germany, Japan or any other nation. Look at it as your a stock trader and we will get more stock opportunities when more and more chinese stocks will become available to us on our Exchanges.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
Even today, most of the nation of China is so ill equiped with transportation and communication that the people are not directly effected by the Government.
There have been generations of people that lived and died in China since the second world war that had essentionally no influence by the Government and who lived as simple farmers and associated laborers in the same way their ancesters always had. Communism didn't enter their lives and they may not have realized the Government expected them to be communist or even what it is. (I don't think most Americans have much idea what communism is either.)
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posted
"Carter, president from 1977 to 1981, negotiated a deal during a visit to North Korea in 1994 over the reclusive communist state's nuclear program..."
""The Bush administration changed that policy," he continued. "They put in the trash can the agreement with North Korea, and as a result of that -- and threatened North Korea with military attack -- and as a result of those threats and the discarding of the previous agreement, North Korea announced that they were withdrawing from the Non-Proliferation Treaty."
"It's like night and day. It was daytime when Clinton was in office that totally prohibited and prevented any sort of plutonium enrichment," he said. "All that was dramatically changed under George Bush and now we have the North Koreans having exploded a plutonium bomb.""
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: The USSR collapsed from spending a million dollars for every dollar Ben laden spent tormenting them. It had absolutely nothing to do with their economic system.
Ben Laden has even promissed to accomplish the same thing in the same way with the U.S. and at the present rate, he will succede.
Bin Laden is responsible for the collapse of the USSR? It had nothing to do with their system of government?
Bwhahahahha, where do you come up with this crap Bdgee? Seriously, are you delusional?
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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In all honesty I wouldn't have a problem with trading with China if they were fair about things. However, they are not, and the communist government keeps the Yen artificially low. This is because they are not trading with us to be fair, they are trying to exploit us because they are communist and we are considered the enemy.
As far as socially, I do agree that introduction of things into China such as Walmarts, Computers, etc, is a good thing and should slowly lead to social change away from communism.
However, this is an assumption and isn't guaranteed. In the mean time we are committing economic suicide in the attempt. I think we need to ease up and back off a bit until China decides to be more fair about their monetary practices.
Change will come in China, but we don't have to kill ourselves economically trying to make it happen.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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posted
NR, learn a few facts instead of the lies you get from the RNC and get off that anti-communist republican spin crap.
I repeat:
"The USSR collapsed from spending a million dollars for every dollar Ben laden spent tormenting them. It had absolutely nothing to do with their economic system.
Ben Laden has even promissed to accomplish the same thing in the same way with the U.S. and at the present rate, he will succede."
"Carter, president from 1977 to 1981, negotiated a deal during a visit to North Korea in 1994 over the reclusive communist state's nuclear program..."
""The Bush administration changed that policy," he continued. "They put in the trash can the agreement with North Korea, and as a result of that -- and threatened North Korea with military attack -- and as a result of those threats and the discarding of the previous agreement, North Korea announced that they were withdrawing from the Non-Proliferation Treaty."
"It's like night and day. It was daytime when Clinton was in office that totally prohibited and prevented any sort of plutonium enrichment," he said. "All that was dramatically changed under George Bush and now we have the North Koreans having exploded a plutonium bomb.""
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: NR, learn a few facts instead of the lies you get from the RNC and get off that anti-communist republican spin crap.
I repeat:
"The USSR collapsed from spending a million dollars for every dollar Ben laden spent tormenting them. It had absolutely nothing to do with their economic system.
Ben Laden has even promissed to accomplish the same thing in the same way with the U.S. and at the present rate, he will succede."
"Carter, president from 1977 to 1981, negotiated a deal during a visit to North Korea in 1994 over the reclusive communist state's nuclear program..."
""The Bush administration changed that policy," he continued. "They put in the trash can the agreement with North Korea, and as a result of that -- and threatened North Korea with military attack -- and as a result of those threats and the discarding of the previous agreement, North Korea announced that they were withdrawing from the Non-Proliferation Treaty."
"It's like night and day. It was daytime when Clinton was in office that totally prohibited and prevented any sort of plutonium enrichment," he said. "All that was dramatically changed under George Bush and now we have the North Koreans having exploded a plutonium bomb.""
posted
I also find it amusing that Libs chide Bush for "trash canning" the single party talks with NK, yet they claim that NK is China's problem and the US should stay out of it. At the same time, they refuse to give Bush credit for initiating the six party talks which include China and Russia.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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It was suggested by the IAEA in the 95 that NK was extracting plutonium and this was confirmed in 97 by U.S. Defense Department spokesman Kenneth Bacon under the Clinton administration.
The Clinton deal should have been put in the trash can back then, but you and Clinton were too busy living a pipe dream, trying to broker a deal with a lying psychotic dictator. For libs, it really is all about their "legacy"
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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posted
NK is China's problem militarily speaking NR. They share the border and they don't want us to have a military presence in their zone of control. So let them deal with it that way if it comes to that. I say we live up to our agreements regarding Japan and South Korea and pressure China into action, if need be, or let them risk losing control of the region.
Diplomatically speaking, the six party talks were worth a shot. They have been stalled for well over a year and it is easy to see that it will not work. One on one is what NK publicly said it wanted from the start and had Bush been willing to entertain the idea that maybe sometimes "stay the course" requires revision then perhaps we would not be where we are today eh?
I don't fault Bush for his original idea. But, as in so many other area's, I do fault his stubborness in believing there is only one right solution to any problem.
BF
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Just more of your Joe McCarthy thinking.
The deals were in effect and were being lived up to before dubya trashed them.
Seriously Bdgee, you have either selective reading or comprehension problems.... It was 1995 and Kim Jong was already breaking the agreement..... Long before Dubya came around, but after Clinton made the 1994 deal...
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you complaint that:In the mean time we are committing economic suicide in the attempt. I think we need to ease up and back off a bit until China decides to be more fair about their monetary practices.
is lame... you blame Clinton? the current policies are 6 years of Bush policies.. an dhtey aren't going away...
you are blinded by your party allegience..
wake up and stop being a stooge...
stand up and say what IS wrong without regard to political party... until you are willing to do that? you are no better than the "libs" that you critisize...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
NR, there is no evidence that NK ever broke any agreement during the Clinton presidency.
Your claim rest on nothing but sick and fallacious propaganda put out by your own kind, the far right extreme, without any evidence what-so-ever....just lies and hatred.
Bush broke those agreements in 2000 and no one else, at any time.
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What about the fact that even in 1996, two years after NK signed the 1994 agreement, it still hadn't made its initial declaration of the amount of plutonium it posessed, as required under the Agreed Framework?
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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quote:Originally posted by NaturalResources: Bdgee...
What about the fact that even in 1996, two years after NK signed the 1994 agreement, it still hadn't made its initial declaration of the amount of plutonium it posessed, as required under the Agreed Framework?
Who said they hadn't?
Fact?
The hell it is.
You keep spouting this garbage and all the data says otherwise.
Don't you remember when you were saying the same things about Saddam's WMDs?
You and your sources kept saying the exact same crap.
And guess what turned out to be crap?
Those aren't facts, they are propaganda and lies from the far right.
Bush, not NK broke the agreements and that turned the NK nuckear studies into weapons development.
quote:Originally posted by NaturalResources: Bdgee...
What about the fact that even in 1996, two years after NK signed the 1994 agreement, it still hadn't made its initial declaration of the amount of plutonium it posessed, as required under the Agreed Framework?
Who said they hadn't?
Fact?
The hell it is.
You keep spouting this garbage and all the data says otherwise.
Don't you remember when you were saying the same things about Saddam's WMDs?
You and your sources kept saying the exact same crap.
And guess what turned out to be crap?
Those aren't facts, they are propaganda and lies from the far right.
Bush, not NK broke the agreements and that turned the NK nuckear studies into weapons development.
That is the fact.
Hans Blix of the UN....
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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But anyways grow up because we are doing business with the most populous nation on earth and in the end we will reap the awards financially more then Germany, Japan or any other nation. Look at it as your a stock trader and we will get more stock opportunities when more and more chinese stocks will become available to us on our Exchanges.
