posted
By KWANG-TAE KIM, Associated Press Writer Tue Oct 17, 12:36 PM ET
SEOUL, South Korea - The man once considered the mentor of North Korean leader Kim Jong Il said Tuesday that the reclusive country's nuclear weapons program cannot be stopped unless the strongman is ousted.
But Kim's total grip on the communist society makes that only a remote possibility, Hwang Jang Yop, the highest-ranking North Korean government official ever to defect to South Korea, told The Associated Press.
The 83-year-old Hwang, wearing a lapel badge in the shape of the South Korean national flag, is also skeptical that United Nations sanctions imposed on the North for a nuclear test explosion will hurt Kim's rule.
"I don't think his grip on power will be significantly weakened," Hwang said, adding that South Korea continues to give aid to North Korea, while other countries, most notably China and Russia, are opposed to the idea of pressuring the North.
Hwang, who seldom gives interviews, made his surprising defection in 1997 when he and an aide took refuge in the South Korean embassy in Beijing while on a visit to the Chinese capital. At the time, he was a longtime member of the North's elite, serving as secretary of the ruling Workers' Party.
He had been close to the country's founder, Kim Il Sung, the father of Kim Jong Il, and is often described as the younger Kim's former mentor. Hwang is also widely seen as the intellectual architect of the North's "juche" philosophy of self sufficiency.
After intense negotiations between China and South Korea, Hwang eventually left Beijing for the Philippines, where he stayed briefly before making his way to Seoul.
Now under police protection 24 hours a day to prevent any North Korean attempt on his life, Hwang said the six-nation talks aimed at ending the North's nuclear weapons program will not resolve the crisis.
He said South Korea, the U.S., China, Russia and Japan should not bargain with the North. They should instead isolate the regime, he said, calling it an "international criminal organization and the enemy of democracy."
The North's nuclear test last week was not Kim's last card and the North Korean leader could still test fire more missiles like he did in July and even mount nuclear warheads on them, Hwang said.
"It is nonsense to urge the North to abandon its nuclear weapons with Kim in place," he said.
Hwang said China is key to bringing an end to Kim's regime.
China is the last remaining ally and main aid donor to its impoverished neighbor, but their relations have been strained by Beijing's support of the U.N. resolution. Still, Beijing succeeded in blocking an even tougher one pushed by the U.S. and Japan.
"No Chinese officials like the North Korean leader, but they keep him in power," Hwang said, adding that Kim's regime serves Beijing's interests by helping keep U.S. influence in the region at bay.
Hwang said the best-case scenario would be if the North pursued economic openness and reform in trying to rebuild its dismal economy, which he said would likely lead eventually to Kim's overthrow and naturally resolve the nuclear dispute.
But Hwang doubts that will happen. "Kim Jong Il actually fears Chinese-style economic reform and openness coming to North Korea," he said.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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posted
The dumbest thing this country ever did was stop assassinating foreign leaders. I read a fantastic article in my Military History magazine concerning how the Byzantine Empire (the Eastern Roman Empire) survived 1000 years after the fall of Rome. How? Not by military might, but because they put all of their resources into their INTELLIGENCE agency, or whatever it was called back then. Briber, assassinations, treaties of one opponent against the next, etc. They held the barbarians at bay for 1000 years even though they were heavily outnumbered and faced onslaughts from the Persians, Arabs, Mongols, Turks, Huns, Slavs, etc. We are now in a similar situation. Military might is no longer the answer. WE CAN'T KILL ALL THE ANIMALS. Therefore, let's revert to old fashioned espionage.
-------------------- Stick with Repo's plan in '07 - FRPT/DKAM!
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: so? do we Try them in Absentia and pass a death sentence on them or do we just send out teams until somebody is successfull?
does Congress have to approve? or is it simply a presidential order?
how much do we pay the assassins?
Pay? Just like any other servicemen. Do you pay folks who drop Napalm? Or Abombs? I believe they are called SNIPERS.
Does Congress approve other intelligence operations? If so, then Yes. If not, then No.
And if we had them trained right, only 1 team would be needed.
-------------------- Stick with Repo's plan in '07 - FRPT/DKAM!
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posted
Robertson apologizes for assassination call Broadcaster finds thread from Saddam to Chavez
Thursday, August 25, 2005; Posted: 7:18 a.m. EDT (11:18 GMT)
(CNN) -- After two days of criticism, Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson apologized for his controversial suggestion that the United States should assassinate Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.
"Is it right to call for assassination? No, and I apologize for that statement," Robertson said. "I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him."
But he compared Chavez to Iraq's Saddam Hussein and Adolf Hitler and quoted German Lutheran theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer: "[That if a madman were] driving a car into a group of innocent bystanders, then I can't, as a Christian, simply wait for the catastrophe and then comfort the wounded and bury the dead. I must try to wrestle the steering wheel out of the hands of the driver."
Bonhoeffer was hanged by the Nazis for his involvement in a 1944 plot to assassinate Hitler.
Robertson's rationale for his statement remained unchanged.
"I said before the war in Iraq began that the wisest course would be to wage war against Saddam Hussein, not the whole nation of Iraq," Robertson said. "When faced with the threat of a comparable dictator in our own hemisphere, would it not be wiser to wage war against one person rather than finding ourselves down the road locked in a bitter struggle with a whole nation?"
So far there has been no reaction from Venezuela to Robertson's apology.
posted
China is going to do nothing! More than likely they are helping the north koreans. Where else can they get someone to do nuke test and have all the test results given to them. Besides if they help keep kim in power they don't have to worry weather or not the country will remain communist. As long as he stays in power a portion of their border is insulated from rest of the world.
-------------------- " A man's got to know his limitations." Clint Eastwood in Magnum Force
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: [b]Robertson apologizes for assassination call/
He was talking about girls committing suicide by getting tongue rings today. Saying that sometimes when they get the piercing it hits the muscle the wrong way and sends electrical impulses repeatedly. Maybe he should be part of bush’s administration eh?
-------------------- All post are my opinion. Do your own DD. Who's clicking your buy/sell button!?
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: so? do we Try them in Absentia and pass a death sentence on them or do we just send out teams until somebody is successfull?
does Congress have to approve? or is it simply a presidential order?
how much do we pay the assassins?
Political assassination isn't about $$ for the assassin... it's about doing what the assassin thinks is the right thing.. something like this so it doesn't get traced back to us or any particular country.. is to train a Korean in secret and forget informing Congress... The assassin would have to be willing to sacrifice his life for this for the better good... he should know the risks that he could be captured and be willing to commit suicide by his own hand.. with a gun or cyanide capsule... he would penetrate the upper echelons of the NK gov't and try to get close to Kim.. might take months or years whatever as long as mission is accomplished.. and he or she would most likely be on his/her own once they are in... just a idea...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
The assassin would have to be willing to sacrifice his life for this for the better good... he should know the risks that he could be captured and be willing to commit suicide by his own hand.. with a gun or cyanide capsule... he would penetrate the upper echelons of the NK gov't and try to get close to Kim.. might take months or years whatever as long as mission is accomplished.. and he or she would most likely be on his/her own once they are in... just a idea
by George? you just defined the suicide bombers on 911...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
well 9/11 wasn't a political assassination to topple a gov't though they did intend to hurt us financially by trying to send the financial markets and such into a tailspin... i am talking about political assassinations in the classic sense ala the Cold War years or other times in history like Caesars assassination or Sadaat in Egypt etc...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: The assassin would have to be willing to sacrifice his life for this for the better good... he should know the risks that he could be captured and be willing to commit suicide by his own hand.. with a gun or cyanide capsule... he would penetrate the upper echelons of the NK gov't and try to get close to Kim.. might take months or years whatever as long as mission is accomplished.. and he or she would most likely be on his/her own once they are in... just a idea
by George? you just defined the suicide bombers on 911...
no...he said "for the better good"
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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whose better good? well 9/11 wasn't a political assassination to topple a gov't though they did intend to hurt us financially by trying to send the financial markets and such into a tailspin... i am talking about political assassinations in the classic sense ala the Cold War years or other times in history like Caesars assassination or Sadaat in Egypt etc.
i still say you described the 911 suicide bombers...
they ( flight 93) were going after either the White House or the Capital and the definitely the Pentagon...
the Twin Towers had CIA, Secret Service and other US Govt offices too..
i asked early on...
are you gonna try them in court, in absentia? pass a death sentnec on them and then send executioners?
are you gonna give the president that right?
it ain't in the constitution..
you have to declare war on ONE MAN then...
don't blame the messenger...
it'snot like i wouldn't like to see this stuff resolved either...
hell... those are important issues...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: no...he said "for the better good"
whose better good? well 9/11 wasn't a political assassination to topple a gov't though they did intend to hurt us financially by trying to send the financial markets and such into a tailspin... i am talking about political assassinations in the classic sense ala the Cold War years or other times in history like Caesars assassination or Sadaat in Egypt etc.
i still say you described the 911 suicide bombers...
i asked early on...
are you gonna try them in court?
are you gonna give the president that right?
it ain't in the constitution..
you have to declare war on ONE MAN then...
don't blame the messenger...
it'snot like i wouldn't like to see this stuff resolved either...
hell... those are important issues...
whose better good? I take that to mean everybody's...
I *do* understand the terrorist biz-plan, and it kinda makes sense, in the uruguayan diction. But long term? nah... underground-resistance models seem to win out, to me.
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: The assassin would have to be willing to sacrifice his life for this for the better good... he should know the risks that he could be captured and be willing to commit suicide by his own hand.. with a gun or cyanide capsule... he would penetrate the upper echelons of the NK gov't and try to get close to Kim.. might take months or years whatever as long as mission is accomplished.. and he or she would most likely be on his/her own once they are in... just a idea
What about Sam Fisher? I hear these days hes a self employed double agent
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: so? do we Try them in Absentia and pass a death sentence on them or do we just send out teams until somebody is successfull?
does Congress have to approve? or is it simply a presidential order?
how much do we pay the assassins?
Pay? Just like any other servicemen. Do you pay folks who drop Napalm? Or Abombs? I believe they are called SNIPERS.
Does Congress approve other intelligence operations? If so, then Yes. If not, then No.
And if we had them trained right, only 1 team would be needed.
Snipers could never get close enough to Lil Kim... unless we have some emaciated Korean descendants working in our special ops.
Hey guys whats wrong with a little GPS sponsored Predator drone strapped with a Hellfire missle? I'll bet we could put one right between his goggles if we wanted too.
AHHHHHH let China worry about him. He should be ignored. China will suffer the consequences of any Lil Kim fallout
maybe our debt will get squashed?
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: whose better good? I take that to mean everybody's...
i know that Tex...
i'm just playing Neitzche...
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
the thing is? spec ops teams can't just wander into foreign counrtries and "hang out" waitng for a security team to mess up...
i hate to be a basher here, but you guys are talking one in a million stuff...
and there aren't that many volunteers for five year missions like this either...
the shuttle guys train as long as you would have to, to do this...
shooting high powered rifles at heads of state is suicide.... even with a 50 cal sniper rifle? half mile shots are not a "done deal" on 1 shot....
Whose greater good??? OUR GREATER GOOD. This is not about mankind, its about the U.S. If you want to champion mankind, move to Sweden.
Damn right!
Be a he-man, like George, The Deserter, and DECIDE!
We don't put up with these sniveling little third world dictators.
What the hell, we are THE world power.
Smack 'em down!
Bring it OOOONNNN!!!
Exactly. Spoken like a red meat eating American, and not some liberal pansy from San Francisco. Oh, and I don't like G.W., and I'm not a Republican (or a Democrat). But I am a selfish American.
-------------------- Stick with Repo's plan in '07 - FRPT/DKAM!
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: whose better good? I take that to mean everybody's...
i know that Tex...
i'm just playing Neitzche...
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
the thing is? spec ops teams can't just wander into foreign counrtries and "hang out" waitng for a security team to mess up...
i hate to be a basher here, but you guys are talking one in a million stuff...
and there aren't that many volunteers for five year missions like this either...
the shuttle guys train as long as you would have to, to do this...
shooting high powered rifles at heads of state is suicide.... even with a 50 cal sniper rifle? half mile shots are not a "done deal" on 1 shot....
Who said sniper? and who said the stereotypical american (white or non korean looking)... I'm talking about training one lone North Korean dissident then send him back to penetrate Kim's inner circle. Perhaps join the NK military to be a Kim guard to get close to him. One man, one shot. Suicide mission? yes... I did say a man or woman who was willing to sacrifice his life to take out Kim. A NK person who is doing it for his country and the greater good to end this stalemate.. and not have it traced back to US or any particular country.. It would be dismissed as a lone gunman ala Lee Harvey Oswald... if he takes out Kim.. end of problem... someone smart and not a wacko would take over and open up diplomatic talks to resolve problems without threatening anyone with nuclear weapons to get what he wants... a political assassination like this would solve all problems and not shed anymore blood in terms of our own soldiers.. only two would be dead.. the gunman and most importantly Kim....
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: whose better good? I take that to mean everybody's...
i know that Tex...
i'm just playing Neitzche...
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
the thing is? spec ops teams can't just wander into foreign counrtries and "hang out" waitng for a security team to mess up...
i hate to be a basher here, but you guys are talking one in a million stuff...
and there aren't that many volunteers for five year missions like this either...
the shuttle guys train as long as you would have to, to do this...
shooting high powered rifles at heads of state is suicide.... even with a 50 cal sniper rifle? half mile shots are not a "done deal" on 1 shot....
Whose greater good??? OUR GREATER GOOD. This is not about mankind, its about the U.S. If you want to champion mankind, move to Sweden.
Damn right!
Be a he-man, like George, The Deserter, and DECIDE!
We don't put up with these sniveling little third world dictators.
What the hell, we are THE world power.
Smack 'em down!
Bring it OOOONNNN!!!
Exactly. Spoken like a red meat eating American, and not some liberal pansy from San Francisco. Oh, and I don't like G.W., and I'm not a Republican (or a Democrat). But I am a selfish American.
Yeah!
And a reactionary shoot from the hip one that only sees what his selfishness likes to taste.
You know, the kind that spoke up loudly and demanded that we invade Iraq to rid that tyrant of the WMDs he flaunted in our face and called anyone that didn't cheer alongside of him unpatriotic and suggested they should be imprisioned for doubting and questioning The Great Prevaricator.
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posted
OK... i see people have now even pulled quotes incorrectly...
i am being shown to have said somehting i didn't...
the real answer is this:
American Tourists and travelers around the world would become fair game for being assasinated on sight if you did this........ and nobody would care...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: OK... i see people have now even pulled quotes incorrectly...
i am being shown to have said somehting i didn't...
the real answer is this:
American Tourists and travelers around the world would become fair game for being assasinated on sight if you did this........ and nobody would care...
Glass, you keep thinking for some reason that I mean for us to send American(s) special ops teams in to assassinate Kim. I've said more then once that we train a SK or NK not a American to do the job and send him in to join the military or however to get close to Kim and assassinate him by whatever means: gun, poison, knife etc. And this person has to be willing to sacrifice his or her life for this mission whether getting killed by Kim's guards or by the assassin's own hand. No visible ties would be traced back to the United States and it would just be classified as a assassination by a crazed person or a NK rebel group etc.. whatever it may be but no ties to the U.S. being involved. So what you stated about Americans getting killed over this is not plausible if it is not traced back to us. I hope you don't think the CIA hasn't done things like this before in the past because I have no doubt they have either in Latin America or other countries during the Cold War around the world. When they do these assassinations they don't go in with a T shirt with a american flag on it lol ... They obviously have a person from that own country do it.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by NaturalResources: LOL... ok. Your solution is to let communist China take care of communist NK... sorry.
LOL...
you seem OK with borrowing money from them to finance the war in Iraq...
you seem OK with running a trade defict of over 700 billion US$ last year..
what's Bush done to "fix" that? LOL... he encourages it...
you have been duped, and robbed....
i've only been robbed..
The United States racked up a record-high trade deficit with the rest of the world in 2005, setting off a political firestorm that's being felt from Washington to Beijing, roiling U.S. manufacturers and organized labor, and prompting Congress to consider new laws to rein in the losses.
The $725.8 billion deficit, announced Friday by the Commerce Department, was a 17.5 percent leap from 2004's then-record deficit of $617.6 billion. The 2005 trade deficit equaled 5.8 percent of this country's gross domestic product, up from 5.3 percent of GDP in 2004 and 4.5 percent in 2003.
The United States hasn't had a trade surplus since 1975.
yeah... China is the proper solution to THEIR problem.....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
First off I don't agree at all with Bush and his policies with China. Frankly, I blame Clinton for starting that whole BS with his "Most Favored Trade Nation" status he gave China back in the 90's, and I blame Bush for going along with it like an idiot.
Second....
NK is not just China's problem... It is our problem too and has been since we chose to stand up to the communists during the Korean war. Remember? China sent troops to help fight against us? Oh yeah, they don't bother to bring that up these days in the news when they talk about NK, it doesn't fit nicely with the whole "the US is a warmonger" story they peddle....
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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posted
LOL... heres Bush's financial plan:reverse this: Wednesday, August 4, 1999 Published at 16:54 GMT 17:54 UK Business: The Economy US to buy back national debt It now says it will begin repurchasing Treasury bonds before they fall due, as early as next February, cutting back on the $3.6 trillion (£2.4 trillion) it owes to the public
geee... that didn't happen did it?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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