quote:Originally posted by bdgee: I remember the look of disgust on the preachers face when, as a small child I asked, "If the only way into heaven is through Jesus, does God not care about people that never heard of the bible?"
It is a question that still remains unanswered, though several self sure "christians" have claimed to answer it by changing the question.
I think it was Henry James that uttered his inability to believe in an all powerful and generous god that would allow even one cockroach to suffer the pangs of lost love.
You supposed loving caring christians are so bigoted it smells.
Remember when Jesus was on the cross, he said father please forgive them because they know not what they do. And those were grown men who were killing Jesus. Many will be saved by ignorance. Jesus said the last sign of the end is when the Gospel reaches the whole world. So GOD does take into consideration what we do or do not know.
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quote:Originally posted by rimasco: Ill go with ignorance....while the "devout" explains why they knowingly commited sin EVERY SINGLE DAY
Everyone is born sinners, but it is possible to learn not to sin any more. A perfect example is Enoch. The Bible says Enoch learned to walk with GOD for 400 years, then GOD took him up. I'm obviously not there yet, but that is my goal, and why I try to draw nearer to GOD everyday. It is possible.
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You have many worthy views and provide us with interesting information, NONE OF WHICH ARE CHRISTIANITY OR THE QUOTES FROM THE BIBLE OR A DECLARATION THAT THE BIBLE IS THE END ALL OF, THE SUBSTANCE OF, OR THE FOUNDATION OF THOUGHT AND WORTH.
We have had available to us everything you can imagine saying about christianity and the bible all of our lives and I'd bet that many of us have spent more time than you reading and studying it. We do not need to have it brought to us!
Being assailed with ultra religious babble over and over is not in any way pleasant or even thought provoking, lest you intend to make us think ill of you and your religion. Assailing people with such is an affront and nothing less. It IS NOT appreciated.
posted
Pope sorry for reaction to his remarks By PIER PAOLO CITO, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
CASTEL GANDOLFO, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI said Sunday that he was "deeply sorry" about the angry reaction to his recent remarks about Islam, which he said came from a text that did not reflect his personal opinion.
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Despite the statement, protests and violence persisted across the Muslim world, with churches set ablaze in the West Bank and a hard-line Iranian cleric saying the pope was united with President Bush to "repeat the Crusades."
An Italian nun also was gunned down in a Somali hospital where she worked, and the Vatican expressed concern that the attack was related to the outrage over the pope's remarks.
Benedict sparked the controversy when, in a speech Tuesday to university professors during a pilgrimage to his native Germany, he cited the words of a Byzantine emperor who characterized some of the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, Islam's founder, as "evil and inhuman."
On Sunday, he stressed the words "were in fact a quotation from a medieval text which do not in any way express my personal thought."
"At this time I wish also to add that I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims," the pope told pilgrims at his summer palace outside Rome.
Security was higher than usual at the palace, with police patting down many pilgrims and confiscating umbrellas with metal tips and bottles of liquids. Sharpshooters kept watch from a balcony and other officers, dressed like tourists, monitored the crowd with video cameras.
Police headquarters across Italy also were ordered to raise security at potential Catholic targets. At the Vatican, though, no additional security measures could be seen as tourists strolled across St. Peter's Square.
Muslim leaders in the Mideast gave mixed reactions to the pontiff's statement Sunday.
The leader of Egypt's largest Islamic political group, the Muslim Brotherhood, said that "while anger over the pope's remarks is necessary, it shouldn't last for long."
"While he is the head of the Catholic Church in the world, many Europeans are not following (the church) so what he said won't influence them. Our relations with Christians should remain good, civilized and cooperative," Mohammed Mahdi Akef told The Associated Press.
However, the former deputy of Cairo's Al-Azhar Mosque, the Sunni Arab world's most powerful institution, told Al-Arabiya TV the explanation was "not enough."
"He should apologize because he insulted the beliefs of Islam. He must apologize in a frank way and say he made a mistake," Mahmoud Ashour said.
Mohammed al-Nujeimi, a professor at the Institute of Judicial and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, also criticized the pope's statement.
"The pope does not want to apologize. He is evading apology and what he said today is a repetition of his previous statement," he told Al-Arabiya TV.
The Vatican had released a statement Saturday saying the pope "sincerely regrets" that Muslims were offended, but stopped short of apologizing.
In his speech on Tuesday, Benedict quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and an educated Persian on the truths of Christianity and Islam.
"The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the pope said. "He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'"
The remarks continued to spark protests and violence across the Muslim world on Sunday.
The Italian nun, who was not immediately identified, was shot in the back at S.O.S. Hospital in the Somali capital of Mogadishu by two gunmen, said Mohamed Yusuf, a doctor at the facility. The nun's bodyguard and a hospital worker were also killed, doctors said.
Nobody claimed of responsibility for the attack. The Vatican's spokesman indicated the shooting could be related to the uproar over the pope's remarks.
"Let's hope that it will be an isolated fact," the Rev. Federico Lombardi was quoted as saying by the Italian news agency ANSA. The Vatican is "following with concern the consequences of this wave of hate, hoping that it does not lead to grave consequences for the church in the world."
In the West Bank, two churches were set on fire. One attack destroyed the interior of a 170-year-old church in the town of Tulkarem; the other partially burned a church in Tubas, Christian officials said. Neither church is Catholic.
Palestinian Muslims hurled firebombs and opened fire at five churches in the West Bank and Gaza Strip Saturday, sparking concerns of a rift between Palestinian Muslims and Christians.
Hundreds of Iranians also demonstrated against the pope in cities across Iran. In Qom, the religious capital of Iran's 70 million Shiite Muslims, hardline cleric Ahmad Khatami said the pope and Bush were "united in order to repeat the Crusades."
Elsewhere, the pope's statement Sunday appeared to be easing tensions.
Turkey's foreign minister said the pope was still expected to visit in November in what would be his first trip to a Muslim nation. "From our point of view, there is no change," Abdullah Gul told reporters before departing for a trip to the United States.
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan had cast doubt on the trip Saturday amid angry reactions from many leaders in Turkey's staunchly secular government.
However, some in Turkey rejected the pope's explanation on Sunday. State Minister Mehmet Aydin said he seemed to be saying he was sorry for the outrage but not the remarks themselves.
"You either have to say this 'I'm sorry' in a proper way or not say it at all," he told reporters in Istanbul. "Are you sorry for saying such a thing or because of its consequences?"
___
Associated Press correspondent Victor L. Simpson at the Vatican, Nadia Abou el-Magd in Cairo, Egypt, Mohamed Sheikh Nor in Mogadishu, Somalia, and Nasser Karimi in Qom, Iran, contributed to this report.
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Come on, the Pope doesn't have any reason to be sorry for the reaction to his remarks. Tough luck. The Muslims and their religious leaders are offended by the Pope calling a spade a spade and wanting him to appoligize for saying that it is wrong for the Muslims to use their faith to murder and kill innocent civilians and children. Gosh I never would have guessed that that would offend them. I say, good for the Pope, for saying it like it is and that it is the Muslim religious leaders that need to appoligize to the rest of the world because they are the ones that are egging on their followers to kill people. Now that is what needs an appology, not a world leader that is speaking the truth, even though it is not politically correct.
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STAR GAZER, You hit the nail on the head bud. I know a lot of Muslims and in their heart and in their eyes show the same expression of frustration with the extreme assism. The Pope needs no appology, he's right on. Muslims whom are misguided by cruel leaders need to be re educated and the sheet of religion pulled back and let the sun shine in. When Jesus said the truth shall set you free, I think he was also speaking to this group. and forgive them for they know not what they do, he was also referring to the terrorists, cause they have no idea what life means and how presious it really is, cause if they did, they would set an example of protecting life and liberty rather than fear it and kill thinking. And until then we will be at war them. Now thats a long term investment, ya think? Try day trading this one.
-------------------- Bill Gates, Donald Trump and James Dean, Willie Nelson, John Lennon and Neil McCoy
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quote:Originally posted by dinner42: STAR GAZER, You hit the nail on the head bud. I know a lot of Muslims and in their heart and in their eyes show the same expression of frustration with the extreme assism. The Pope needs no appology, he's right on. Muslims whom are misguided by cruel leaders need to be re educated and the sheet of religion pulled back and let the sun shine in. When Jesus said the truth shall set you free, I think he was also speaking to this group. and forgive them for they know not what they do, he was also referring to the terrorists, cause they have no idea what life means and how presious it really is, cause if they did, they would set an example of protecting life and liberty rather than fear it and kill thinking. And until then we will be at war them. Now thats a long term investment, ya think? Try day trading this one.
These "terrorists" or soldiers as they like to call them. Believe in their hearts and minds that "WE" are the terrorists(infedels). Do you consider the way we bomb more "HUMANE"? They dont. They simply dont abide by our rules of engagment. So we call them "terrorists"
I said it before and ill say it again...people gotta stop using the labels that have been provided to us via politicians and the media
You think the guys that hijacked those planes and the ones who strap bombs to themselves woke up one day and said "Hey I think im gonna do some unspeakable evil today"
They believe in their hearts that we are the "evildoers" and that every single one of us taken out is a good deed done
We are at war with an Ideology. One whos military cant afford hi-tech weapons like ours. So they figured out ways to render alllllll our TRILLION dollar hi-tech gadgets USELESS. And what is our response to them? To label them with names like "terrorist and evildoer" in hopes it will catch on in their home countries...BUT ITS NOT!
If an Iraqi dusted off his ole military uniform and strapped a bomb to himself and ran into a USMC mess hall....would he qualify as a terrorist or an enemy combatant? Is he supposed to use a rifle or some other means decreasing his success rate to comply with some rules they have no clue about? How do you make killing etiquette?
If one of our soldiers strapped a bomb to himself and ran into the safehouse that Zarqawi occupied...would he be considered a terrorists...of course not! He would be a hero
I just did a search on Timothy McVeigh and for some reason 99% of the results labeled him the Oklahoma City bomber....why doesnt he qualify as a terrorist? Did it have to be backed by religious beliefs? Maybe Cause he didnt blow himslef up? Cant be...Bin Ladens labeled a terrorist mastermind and hes still around. Maybe cause hes not of middle eastern decent?
One of our policies is not to negotiate with anything labeled "terrorist". and im still trying to figure out what qualifys as one.
I think we need to stop name calling and labeling and try to open up some dialogue with these religious fanatics.
maybe Hamas moderating will be a bridge to understanding these labeled groups.
Oh wait thats right...its against our policy to even entertain the thought of trying to figure out why the Palestinians voted them into leadership.
woooo i just went on a rant....i should stopped at my 3rd cup of jo! LoL!
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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They may beleive in their hearts we are terrorists. But they are told untruths. I'm not strapping one on and bombing them, American soldiers and other countrymen are feeding, clothing and protecting the majority of Muslims from a handful of uneducated Cavemen with no social skills, they don't want to sit down and talk like we do. They just want to kill anyone they can with no regard who they are or where they were born or what they beleive. You want to speak of Ideals man. Get your head screwed on straight! And GW's got nothing to do with it. He's just the fireman, if you have not figured it out. He's out soon and another Fireman will take his place in 2008. Freedom is the point. Opression is the fire! Flying a plane into a building anywhere on the planet is no way to get your point across and be right about things. Different Ideals are exuses to commit atrosities? No they are not, but standing up to them is where the fight is and in a fight you are on one side or another! Pick a side, just like in the Jungle, life or death! Thats the mentality of the guy in the plane doing 500 MPH into the World Trade Center. You want me to say We are terroists? and agree with that point of view. Well it is not gonna happen and so we are off to war, not because of George,Bill,George Sr,Ronald,Dick,Jimmy,Gerald or John. They were all firemen and if they did not put out the fires over the past 50 years, you might not be able to post your message here.(W and crew are all messed up, but they are on duty and working for you and me until 08.) Thats whos standing your post! Like it or not. and Nazi Germany from the 30's, ya right just drive on the 405 Fwy in traffic on a friday trying to get to the Staples Center for a Game and think our President is a Nazi? Hitler would have burned down the Staples Center, so don't corralate our President with that Jerk! Republican or Democrate or Independant or whatever, our Pres is our Pres and none of our Presidents are or were NAZI'S! None of them! Stand Fast and look around at your world for a moment.
-------------------- Bill Gates, Donald Trump and James Dean, Willie Nelson, John Lennon and Neil McCoy
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Well it appears that fire marshall George mistaken a gas-truck for a fire-truck.
Get my head screwed on straight? You did make it sound like you wanted to go after the attackers on 911...so do I! I was there!! What are we doing in Iraq? 15 OF THE 19 HIJACKERS WERE SAUD'S!!! did you know this? did you forget this? you know how many of them were Iraqi?....ZERO!
Dont get me wrong...Saddam was a terrible guy...and was gona have to be dealt with sooner or later but we didnt seem to think so back when we were supplying him during the Iran-Iraq war. And right after we took him down who popped up next door? AMADMANJAD!
I was duped along with the 400+ clowns in congress on the WMD's But I was never gung-ho on the idea of invasion....read your history books....the occupiers always lose. what more of a stat do you need?
LMAO!!! I never said we were terrorists. you twisted my words. I said in their eyes we are viewed as the terrorist. I also was questioning the qualification of this word. It seems the defenition is getting much much broader and is very convenient to use to justify just about anything.
By the way I voted for GW in 2000...(Keep in mind this was pre 911) cause I was definetly not voting for Gore. Then in 04 I voted for him again cause there was no way i was voting for Kerry to clean up his mess.
And whattaya know?........HE MADE A BIGGER FUGKING MESS!
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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quote:Originally posted by dinner42: They may beleive in their hearts we are terrorists. But they are told untruths. I'm not strapping one on and bombing them, American soldiers and other countrymen are feeding, clothing and protecting the majority of Muslims from a handful of uneducated Cavemen with no social skills, they don't want to sit down and talk like we do. They just want to kill anyone they can with no regard who they are or where they were born or what they beleive. You want to speak of Ideals man. Get your head screwed on straight! And GW's got nothing to do with it. He's just the fireman, if you have not figured it out. He's out soon and another Fireman will take his place in 2008. Freedom is the point. Opression is the fire! Flying a plane into a building anywhere on the planet is no way to get your point across and be right about things. Different Ideals are exuses to commit atrosities? No they are not, but standing up to them is where the fight is and in a fight you are on one side or another! Pick a side, just like in the Jungle, life or death! Thats the mentality of the guy in the plane doing 500 MPH into the World Trade Center. You want me to say We are terroists? and agree with that point of view. Well it is not gonna happen and so we are off to war, not because of George,Bill,George Sr,Ronald,Dick,Jimmy,Gerald or John. They were all firemen and if they did not put out the fires over the past 50 years, you might not be able to post your message here.(W and crew are all messed up, but they are on duty and working for you and me until 08.) Thats whos standing your post! Like it or not. and Nazi Germany from the 30's, ya right just drive on the 405 Fwy in traffic on a friday trying to get to the Staples Center for a Game and think our President is a Nazi? Hitler would have burned down the Staples Center, so don't corralate our President with that Jerk! Republican or Democrate or Independant or whatever, our Pres is our Pres and none of our Presidents are or were NAZI'S! None of them! Stand Fast and look around at your world for a moment.
perhaps I'm tired...
whatever: I have *no* idea what this post is about...
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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Dinner42, Mabey our President's weren't Nazi's, but they sure were in the "Skull & Bones" or "Free Masons" or what ever else they were in.
44 Arnold Schwarzenegger, 2009- R Bohemian Club, Nazi
43 George Walker Bush, 2001-2009 R Bohemian Club, Skull and Bones
42 William (Bill) Jefferson Clinton, 1993-2001 D Skull and Bones, The Bilderberg Group, Trilateral Commission, Rhodes Scholars (1968), Council on Foreign Relations, Mason
41 George Herbert Walker Bush, 1989-1993 R Bohemian Club, 33rd Degree Masons, Skull and Bones, Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, Order Of The Garter
40 Ronald Wilson Reagan, 1981-1989 R Bohemian Club, Mason
39 James (Jimmy) Earl Carter, 1977-1981 D Trilateral Commission (founding member), Council on Foreign Relations
38 Gerald R. Ford, 1974-1977 R Bohemian Club, The Bilderberg Group, honorary Mason of the DeMolay-Legion of Honor, Council on Foreign Relations
37 Richard Milhous Nixon, 1969-1974 R Bohemian Club, Council on Foreign Relations
Trilateral Commission started in 1973.
36 Lyndon Baines Johnson, 1963-1969 D Entered Apprentice Mason, Council on Foreign Relations
35 John Fitzgerald Kennedy, 1961-1963 D, Assnd * Skull and Bones, Council on Foreign Relations, Illuminati
34 Dwight David Eisenhower, 1953-1961 R Bohemian Club, Council on Foreign Relations
33 Harry S Truman, 1945-1953 D 33rd Degree Masons, Skull and Bones, Council on Foreign Relations
32 Franklin Deleno Roosevelt, 1933-1945 D, died 33rd Degree Masons, Skull and Bones, Council on Foreign Relations
31 Herbert Clark Hoover, 1929-1933 R Bohemian Club, Skull and Bones
Bilderberg Group started in 1932.
30 John Calvin Coolidge, 1923-1929 R Skull and Bones
29 Warren Gamaliel Harding, 1921-1923 R, died Mason
Council on Foreign Relations started in 1921.
28 Thomas Woodrow Wilson, 1913-1921 D American Institute of International Affairs (CFR today)
27 William Howard Taft, 1909-1913 R Skull and Bones, Mason
26 Theodore (Teddy) Roosevelt, 1901-1909 R Mason
Rhodes Scholars started in 1902.
Note: Mason power put in Vice Presidency prior to 1901, before a President dies.
25 William McKinley, 1897-1901 R, Assnd Mason
24,22 Grover Cleveland, 1893-1897, 1885-1889 D
23 Benjamin Harrison, 1889-1893 R
21 Chester Alan Arthur, 1881-1885 R
20 James Abram Garfield, 1881 R, Assnd Mason, Knights Templar
19 Rutherford Birchard Hayes, 1877-1881 R Skull and Bones
18 Ulysses Simpson Grant, 1869-1877 R
Bohemian Club started in 1872.
17 Andrew Johnson, 1865-1869 D Degree Master Masons
16 Abraham Lincoln, 1861-1865 R, Assnd * Mason
15 James Buchanan, 1857-1861 D Master Masons
14 Franklin Pierce, 1853-1857 D Mason, Knights Of The Garter
13 Millard Fillmore, 1850-1853 W
12 Zachary Taylor, 1849-1850 W Mason, Knights Of The Garter
11 James Polk, 1845-1849 D Master Masons
10 John Tyler, 1841-1845 W
09 William Henry Harrison, 1841 W, died
08 Martin Van Buren, 1837-1841 D Mason
07 Andrew Jackson, 1829-1837 D Grand Master of Masons
Skull and Bones started in 1832 with the help of the Taft family.
06 John Quincy Adams, 1825-1829 DR
05 James Monroe, 1817-1825 DR Grand Master of Masons, Knights Of The Garter
04 James Madison, 1809-1817 DR
03 Thomas Jefferson, 1801-1809 DR Illuminati
02 John Adams, 1797-1801 F Illuminati
01 George Washington, 1789-1797 F Master Masons, Knights Of The Garter
The Illuminati started May 1, 1776.
Knights Templar started in 1118 (33rd degree masons).
posted
There are masons, guys that make a living layin brick and stone.
And:
There are "Masons", guys that belong to a secret men's organization dedicated to furthering each other, first, second, third, and thereafter, even if doing so has them doing against their country or whatevr else.
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WHO CARES! my god people...SO WHAT if the pope said what he said...ask yoursel: "so what?"
the pope said basically that islam was evil, and you know what? the muslims proved their point by killing a nun, burning churches, and making death threats. i do not feel sorry for any muslim. im so sick of people bashing the pope..and i know catholics are not perfect and they have killed in the name of their religion, but thats the past and this is the current, and the current is muslims around the world are blowing up markets, killing troops, preaching hatred, and raising their children to kill.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.
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The Pope needs bashing, whether or not anything he said should concern muslims.
As for the Catholic church, it was them in the crusades against the Muslims, not the Baptist. Thereafter, they have caused and sanctioned more death than the Muslims ever imagined.
Now let's see, there is encouraging sniping of nurses and doctors at clinics and providing hiding places for criminals in the U.S, and sponcering terror through the Irish against the English and they did their best to destroy Pasteur and Galileo and Leibnitz, backing the Nazies in WWII, and they undermine every rational effort to manage birth control, and so on and on....
You are right, the Muslims are acting like the Catholics have always acted.
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: There are masons, guys that make a living layin brick and stone.
And:
There are "Masons", guys that belong to a secret men's organization dedicated to furthering each other, first, second, third, and thereafter, even if doing so has them doing against their country or whatevr else.
I was kidden, i know all about the masons, bilderburg, illuminati, templars ,skull and bones and the MS 13s.
Muslim world divided over Pope's apology
While some welcome gesture, others demand act of contrition.
Alright Pope Benny, We need you to summon all your mmmm uhhhh POPENESS and show these people. Maybe some FIRE AND BRINSTONE?..no?.....A PLAGUE!?...... a little LEVITATION?....... ok ok ok slight of hand with the Host and a really good card trick......
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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muslims in london saying "the pope must DIE"
yup there' people like this everywhere...they may need to be "accommodated" soon too
Pepper Lyrics by the Butthole Surfers
Marky got with Sharon And Sharon got Sharice She was sharing Sharon's outlook On the topic of disease Mikey had a facial scar And Bobby was a racist They were all in love with dyin' They were doing it in Texas Tommy played piano Like a kid out in the rain Then he lost his leg in Dallas He was dancing with a train They were all in love with dyin' They were drinking from a fountain That was pouring like an avalanche Coming down the mountain I don't mind the sun sometimes The images it shows I can taste you on my lips And smell you in my clothes Cinnamon and sugary And softly spoken lies You never know just how you look Through other people's eyes Some will die in hot pursuit In fiery auto crashes Some will die in hot pursuit While sifting through my ashes Some will fall in love with life And drink it from a fountain That is pouring like an avalanche Coming down the mountain [Chorus] Another Mikey took a knife While arguing in traffic Flipper died a natural death He caught a nasty virus Then there was the ever-present Football player rapist They were all in love with dyin' They were doing it in Texas Polly caught a bullet But it only hit his leg Well it should have been a better shot And got him in the head They were all in love with dyin' They were drinking from a fountain That was pouring like an avalanche Coming down the mountain [Chorus]
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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These people dont do anything without ther clerics consent....I think it might be time to question the instigators. The guys that are teaching these views and advocating them
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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