posted
A coventional invasion of Iran would leave us pretty much friendless in the world and unsupported . If we used the big N and I don't like the fact that our leaders are even thinking of that we would have nothing but enemies and the world most likely be demanding that we disarm as this would be the secound time we would have used them. Dispite how powerful and tough we think we are we can't make it anymore than any body else with out being a part of the world. Don't forget a lot of this country's assets are located in other country's and we could be at there ecomomic mercey now.
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A coventional invasion of Iran would leave us pretty much friendless in the world and unsupported
this is the price we pay for going into Iraq without consensus..... the way i see it? you get a "free pass" every so often... Bush used his... re-electing him and thereby affirming his actions, means we have used up nearly all of our world "political capital" (i hate that term) for quite some time to come.... we still have no choice but to do what we have to do in spite of world opinion, but the price may be more than we can easily bear....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote: _________________________________________________ Originally posted by bond006
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It is very obvious that as a soldier your worst fear is a bunch of crazies that are looking forward to death have no fear of life or limb and do not care about a material future for there nation,family, or friends when that means nothing to them and there holy cause is death and they are willing to trade as many lives as it takes. As where are soldiers are becoming policemen and are trained to try and live and come home it sort of takes the edge off of our high tech advantage except if we totaly wipe them all out and let God sort out all the good and bad ones. But then we defeat our purpose too. I am afraid to say at this time we need a united country and and somebody with a brain in his or her head to lead us not somebody who's motivation now is greed we are getting pretty close to the deep end of the pool and as we get closer we are coming apart as a nation. We had better get or chit together soon. -------------------------------------------------
As far as a soldiers worst fear i would have to disagree, my opinion is that these people want us to think this and hope we do so they can get that edge in combat. We have proven time and time again we are not afraid of them when it is necessary to take the task on. When they do something they are considered a martyr when we do something it is considered an atrocity.
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Chavez Begins Training Civilian Militia By FABIOLA SANCHEZ, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
CARACAS, Venezuela - President Hugo Chavez constantly warns Venezuelans a U.S. invasion is imminent.
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Now he's begun training a civilian militia as well as the Venezuelan army to resist in the only way possible against a much better-equipped force: by taking to the hills and fighting a guerrilla war.
Supporters of the president, a former paratroop commander, are increasingly taking up his call. Chavez wants 1 million armed men and women in the army reserve, and 150,000 have already joined, surpassing the regular military's force of 100,000. Now Venezuelans are also organizing neighborhood-based militia units for Chavez's Territorial Guard.
Critics of Chavez say the real goal of the mobilization is to create the means to suppress internal dissent and defend Chavez's presidency at all costs. Thousands of Territorial Guard volunteers housewives, students, construction workers are undergoing training, earning $7.45 per session.
"We're going to be a country of soldiers," declares Roberto Salazar, an unemployed 49-year-old, after scrambling under barbed wire, wading through a mud trench and skirting burning tires with other volunteers.
Venezuela's citizen-soldiers come mostly from the slums where Chavez draws his fiercest support. They train on weekends, learning how to handle assault rifles and run obstacle courses through clouds of tear gas.
"Venezuelans need to know how to be military people so that we can defend our fatherland and our president," Salazar says.
Chavez insists the plotters of a 2002 coup that briefly unseated him had Washington's blessing. The United States quickly recognized the interim leaders; U.S. intelligence documents indicate the CIA knew dissident military officers were plotting against Chavez.
Chavez now says all Venezuelans must be prepared for a "war of resistance," and has noted that the hills around Caracas provide excellent cover.
U.S. troops would "bite the dust," he maintains, if they try to oust him and seize Venezuela's vast oil reserves. Top defense officials say Venezuela must prepare for "asymmetrical" war military parlance for using non-conventional means against a traditional army.
Venezuela's army reserve has grown from 30,000 in 2004, says Gen. Alberto Muller Rojas, a top military adviser to Chavez.
The reservists are to be issued some of the army's older Belgian FAL assault rifles once Venezuela receives 100,000 new Kalashnikovs from Russia approximately one for every regular soldier.
U.S. officials express concern that Chavez could be trying to export revolution. Chavez calls that an invention, and says the weapons will be needed for the 1 million Venezuelans he wants to arm. The civilian militias will not be issued firearms but their commanders say weapons would be made available in an emergency.
Critics also accuse Chavez of trying, Cuban-style, to consolidate power by assigning soldiers community tasks like serving as crossing guards and treating the poor in health clinics.
"The military devotion to Chavez is one of two keys to Chavez's survival. The other is the devotion of the poor," says Larry Birns of the Washington-based Council on Hemispheric Affairs. "It's an act of desperation to form an armed civilian militia. He may have reached that point where he feels a faction of the military is untrustworthy."
Rather than trying to topple Chavez with an invasion, it's more likely Washington is trying to undermine him by courting potential rivals within the military, Birns says.
Chavez has in turn sought to reward loyalty, granting handsome pay raises throughout the military. He expelled a U.S. military attache in February, accusing him of espionage. Washington expelled a Venezuelan diplomat in retaliation and has denied any attempts to overthrow Chavez.
In a recent interview, U.S. Ambassador William Brownfield resisted making judgments about the reserve force.
It's up to Venezuela's government and people to decide "how big a reserve force they want, what sort of chain of command they believe this reserve force should have, whether this reserve force should in fact be located in each and every block or town or village throughout the country," Brownfield said.
Chavez reminds his people the United States invaded Grenada and Panama to topple regimes it considered hostile. In both cases, resistance quickly crumbled.
Cuba's defeat of a CIA-trained force at the Bay of Pigs in 1961 is the model Chavez wants to follow.
Chavez marked that battle's 45th anniversary on Tuesday, appearing with Cuban Foreign Minister Felipe Perez Roque and describing the 2002 coup attempt as Venezuela's own Bay of Pigs. Chavez said his military had detected a U.S. aircraft carrier and submarines off the coast and U.S. planes and helicopters over land at the time. And he criticized U.S. naval exercises in the Caribbean this month as another threat to both Venezuela and Cuba.
"We aren't afraid of them, and if they decide to return we're going to defeat them," he said.
Chavez also recently said the National Guard has even enlisted an army of 500 Indians to defend the country with poison-tipped arrows. He added: "If they had to take a good shot at any invader, you'd be done for in 30 seconds, my dear gringo."
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Associated Press writer Natalie Obiko Pearson contributed to this report
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The only time your soldiers should be used as police men is a sittuation like post wwII europe not in the middle of a war it takes the edge off them being soldiers. Troops should be ready to wipe out any thing in there path or get the means to do it not stop and check it out and do a search. As far as us winning and handling anything in Iraq I nver stated that we could not.; When you have a place like Iran that says they can have 40,000. sucided bombers ready the go how would you like to be a traffic cop there don't you think a soldier would think in terms of a soldier and not doing searches . Ask the German occupation Army of France and read about it you will see what I am talking about.
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I heard a clip today of lard ass Rush trying to figure out names to call the six retired Generals and Admirals that are calling for Rummey to resign. He was at a loss for words these are men of honor and courage that put there life on the line for this country and protected us. He new he was really acting like a fool best keep his mouth shut on this one and let Bush and the clan just look like the fools that they are.
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Wealth even makes a commie soft she laughs about it but she was one I know she had read the books and considerd her self a class warrior her and her girl friend Joan who looked up in the skies of N Viet Nam and said good as an American plane was shot down. It was a real mess in thoes days .At the time she went the polls were showing anywhere for 65% to 80% against the war so not much was thought of it.Think things were bad then suppose you had this bunch at the helm then . Just another error of states manship that was.I condider Bush and Chenney no better than Jane and Joan I wish they would all leave the damn country together. They have all in there own way screwed it up
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Bond, I cant listen to any of those right wingers anymore. They wont talk issues, They have total control of this country, but every problem is because of those evil liberals.
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Ya why not listen to the generals? or the ambasador wilsons or the richard clarks, or the FBI agents that just testified at the musoui trial that the agents request to look into a greater plot of highjacking was dissmised. Those superiors had neglagence equal to musoui , and they are getting paychecks from us.
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There is no doubt about it now I am convinced that we have lost control of our country. I don't know if we ever had it or I am just getting old and pissed. The leading and wealthy elements of the right and left think they own it and we are just part of the chattle that they are fighting over. It makes me sick maybe we should say screw what they want this what we want.
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Good old Rush there is another draft dodger for you said he had a boil condition. They were most likley all over his big fat ass. He would have really been something in the infantry. He could have beat anybody to the chow line. Or in a race down hill.
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Heard on the radio it was Air America that the military planners say they have 1900 targets picked out in Iran and they can defeat the nation with special forces only. Well good luck to that plan how are they going to get buy with out an ocuppation of that country if they want to control the outcome of that country?
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quote:Originally posted by bond006: Heard on the radio it was Air America that the military planners say they have 1900 targets picked out in Iran and they can defeat the nation with special forces only. Well good luck to that plan how are they going to get buy with out an ocuppation of that country if they want to control the outcome of that country?
we don't need control Bond.... as a matter of fact? if you use the Iraqi model? i'd say we can be very successful at setting them back 30 years by simply toppling the military control structure,
then?
let the looters do the rest... LEAVE and call it a Victory...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Basically this whole thread is saying nuke the world. You can't just nuke some small place because of oil and you feel like it. In order to "nuke" someone there has to be a WWII rehap with Japan not surrenduring after we defeated the Nazi reign.
-Fox
-------------------- "The only thing better than Vegas is the Stock Market."
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quote:Originally posted by Foxhound: Basically this whole thread is saying nuke the world. You can't just nuke some small place because of oil and you feel like it. In order to "nuke" someone there has to be a WWII rehap with Japan not surrenduring after we defeated the Nazi reign.
-Fox
i have to disagree about your "nuke the world" analysis fox, what other country is openly saying they plan to wipe Israel off the face of the earth... Israel is our ally, and protecting them is in our best interest no matter your opinion of the Hebrew religion... in essence? my interpretation is that Iran is asking for US to come and get 'em.... we may have to oblige...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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This Iran thing is not good no matter how you slice it our ally Israel is in the path and what I am really concerned about over 100,000 of our best is sitting with in range and in the path of a lot of atomic Iranian incoming If they launch and only one or two get through . Holy cow the poop will hit the fan then.
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I look at the Iran-Israel situation in a different way, kind of like the old Rambo movie when they have rambo trapped and the Colonel states that he is not there to protect rambo from them but to protect them from rambo,Isreal being rambo. Like i have said before all we have to do is give Isreal the green light, but i do not think that will happen unless we are sure that Iran is going to try and take out Israel. Of course now you know i watch nothing but the best movies.
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Iran will kick Israels ass. they allready have 2 million troops deployed in Israel, led by Hamas that is why they are pushing forword with the nukes. They have the uper hand, American forces are spread so thin, and bush is so thick.
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Bush should resign now. This is why the shakeup at the whitehouse. They are running for cover.
Outed US spy was researching Iran nuclear program 8 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (AFP) - Former undercover CIA agent Valerie Plame, whose outing sparked a major scandal rocking the White House, was working to track Iran's nuclear program before her name was revealed in 2003, according to US media. MSNBC television reporter David Shuster said Monday that leaking of her identity as a CIA spy to reporters damaged the US effort to follow what Washington believes are Iranian efforts to develop nuclear weapons.
"Intelligence sources say Valerie Wilson was part of an operation three years ago tracking the proliferation of nuclear weapons material into Iran.
"And the sources allege that when Mrs. Wilson's cover was blown, the administration's ability to track Iran's nuclear ambitions was damaged as well," Shuster said on the "Hardball" program.
The same report was made earlier on the investigative website Raw Story, which cited unnamed intelligence officials as saying Plame's outing "carries grave implications for US national security."
On Tuesday Senator Frank Lautenberg called on CIA chief Porter Goss to provide the Senate with a "national security damage assessment" based on the reports that Plame's outing damaged efforts to investigate Iran.
"If this report is true, the disclosure of her identity has caused harm to our national security," Lautenberg wrote in a letter to Goss.
A government prosecutor is currently investigating whether top White House officials deliberately exposed Plame's identity in July 2003 to get back at her diplomat husband, Joseph Wilson, for attacking the government's reasons for invading Iraq.
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It's simple, Israel HAS nukes, Iran May have nukes. Israel, will use nukes if they have to. Iran may really want to re-think going after Israel. Personally if Israel nuked Iran I would giggle as all of the Fundies WOULD go off about the end of times and the battle of Armageddon.
-------------------- If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all.
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Iran will get nukes and no one will stop them.
Israel cant nuke itself!
Hamas is in there country, and they want a fight, the Israeli people are sick of the fighting and want to abandon the occupied teritories. Americans are sick of this bullcrap, Bush is about to be thrown out of office with the Valerie Plame leak. Iran is in the drivers seat.
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If it sparks, we would lose everything, afghanistan, Iraq would explode, China,and Russia would laugh there asses off. We would go bankrupt as a country.
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Don't kid yourself about Hamas either, they are pretty much worthless. Israel would have no problem with them either. Israel just hasn't taken the gloves off yet. The only reason the Palestinians still exist is because Israel lets them. Hamas fighting the Israelis is tantamount to bringing a knife to a gun fight.
-------------------- If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all.
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Israel is like a rubberband that has been wound up to tight and is about to snap. They've been extremely patient with Palastine for decades, because of US. And Bush getting thrown out of office is a pipe dream at best. It ain't gonna happen. Don't be surprised if we let Israel go in and take care of Iran's nuke situation before it gets to out of hand. Cheney said it was an option in an interview over a year ago. They did it to Iraq in the early 80's.
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