posted
I find myself unable to join those that find joy in the killing of the followers of Ben Laden and/or Omar or the maddened Iraqis that think they are fighting for the survival their society or their culture or their religion.
In truth, I feel quite saddened to understand they believe me and my kind wish them or their way of life harm. I certainly have no objection to them having all the benifits of freedom of choice and democracy that any people have.
Saddest of all, I can see quite well that they can believe what Bush and his ilk mean to do is exactly what it looks like they are doing, which is forcing values that those cultures believe sinful, degrading, and destructive upon them. Additionally, they believe we and our ways of life commonly partake in practices that are, in their culture, despicable and forbidden and intended to disgrace their most fundamental beliefs. There is no evidence to the contrary and they need only look at the sickening treatement of their people to find proof of their fears.
[ March 02, 2006, 12:34: Message edited by: bdgee ]
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
You know, you're right. We really should leave Muslims alone to continue to opress women, homosexuals, infidels (non-Muslims), and children. Yes, women should never have the right to vote or even be allowed to drive a car, let alone have an abortion or choose the man she wishes to marry. Women really should be forced at gunpoint to have sex.
It's great that rape is legal and the drinking of alchohol is illegal. It's so wonderful for society to use religion to teach hatred of other cultures and other faiths. Religious abuse is grand.
We really should be tolerant and understanding of a religion that tolerates no one and no other religion. We should cater to a group of people kill each other over rumors, lies, and propaganda.
Yes, we definitely need to pattern U.S. culture after the wonderful Islamist qualities of intolerance, hatred, murder, rape, torture, zero civil rights, religious abuse, etc...
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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The war was it worth it at this point no it has evolved into a different cause all to gether. We come from a totally different background than the Araba peoples. As a matter of fact America today has different roots than the Eourepian peoples that we fled from. No traces of fudelism in our country. We will never in our life time see an Iraq with a fully functioning form of represntive government on the scale of ours and I don't think that that is our real motive it is a ruse. Let an American think he is freeing people and he or she will gladly give there life for years until they catch on. We as in our gov. was best of buddies with old Sadam as long as he played ball and protected our interest in the Mid East now our interest what are they? Oil wouuld be my answer and when he wanted it all we made him to be the worst thing since Hitler. Hero to zero baby. Glta
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: I find myself unable to join those that find joy in the killing of the followers of Ben Laden and/or Omar or the maddened Iraqis that think they are fighting for the survival their society or their culture or their religion.
In truth, I feel quite saddened to understand they believe me and my kind wish them or their way of life harm. I certainly have no objection to them having all the benifits of freedom of choice and democracy that any people have.
Saddest of all, I can see quite well that they can believe what Bush and his ilk mean to do is exactly what it looks like they are doing, which is forcing values that those cultures believe sinful, degrading, and destructive upon them. Additionally, they believe we and our ways of life commonly partake in practices that are, in their culture, despicable and forbidden and intended to disgrace their most fundamental beliefs. There is no evidence to the contrary and they need only look at the sickening treatement of their people to find proof of their fears.
This is ,and has always, been my feeling.. I dont feel it is our duty to straighten out, what we say, are the wrongs of the world... Other cultures have their own beliefs which are not our business..
This is all rhetoric anyways... this is not why we are there...we all know that... Bush and his cronies couldnt care less about these peoples.
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: i still dont understand how bush is STEALING our first amendment rights...
is there a punishment now for free speech?
Yes!
At the whim of this sick idiot or anyone he chooses to say can do so, you can be put in a prison, perhaps in a foreigh country, with no recourse.... ...no lawyer, no appeal to any court, no nothing.
And we know how this guy treats prisoners. We have tapes and pictures of his work.
Are you ready to be beaten or sexually tortured because you p-ssed off dubya's enormous ego? Do you really want to subject anyone to the whim of this self serving liar?
Or do you hope to be among the lucky winners of favor and get to do the torturing?
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I guess it would have been better to let the Jews bake in the ovens, and to let Hitler and/or Japan eventually make their way to American shores...
Yeah, we should have definitely not tried to step in and fix things, the world and our country would have been so much better off as a Nazi nation.
Just think, no more Jews, Catholics, blacks, homo's, mentally handicaped, physically challenged, people. No religion (because there is no God), no media, free press, public universities, small businesses, etc. That just sounds so good to me...
We really should have stayed out of Europe's business, and we should stay out of everyone else's busines. "Live and let live," right?
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
If you believe that we are saving Arabs fine as long as you know that we have killed almost as many of them as Sadam in the corse of saving them from a dictatorship makes sense doesn't it
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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On that note, I would have preferred we let Japan invade us and take over. I really like sushi better than cabbage.
And the Japanese women are for more sub-servient than the German women.
Also, if we had just minded our own business and let the Nazi's have their way, I probably wouldn't even be writing this post right now because they would have discovered that I have ancestors from Russia and from Catholic Ireland, making me quite ethnically tainted.
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bond006: If you believe that we are saving Arabs fine as long as you know that we have killed almost as many of them as Sadam in the corse of saving them from a dictatorship makes sense doesn't it
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying I do not believe in the idea of letting maniacs run rampant through the world while we sit back and watch it happen before our eyes.
If a person that thinks we should never step in has even an ounce of integrity, they would surely have to deny the benefit of our involvement in world affairs between 1900-1948.
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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It's a noble idea Team Sleep, but their are currently maniacs all over the world running rampant. Look at the number of tyrrants in Africa and South America and Asia running countries. Do you propose we send our military to every one of those countries and try to force them to be more like us? Or do we only do it if it serves our interests to do so.
Posts: 1235 | From: Anacortes, WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Am I the only conservative Bush supporter on this post? Believe me I do my homework when it comes to politics and I stand by my convictions as I am sure most all of you do. I guess we see things through different lenses.
dp
Posts: 741 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Team Sleep: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
The latter part of this ammendment no longer applies.
For example, if a group of students wants to exercise their freedom of religion by praying at school, within a week they will most likely be sued by the ACLU.
And don't give me the seperation of church and state BS to disregard the first ammendment. The idea of seperation of church and states does NOT exist in any legal U.S. document (i.e. Bill of rights, Constitution, ammendments, Dec. of Independence, etc.)
It looks as though you have erred in applying some specific facts and some specific logical principles.
You say, "For example, if a group of students wants to exercise their freedom of religion by praying at school, within a week they will most likely be sued by the ACLU."
That's a lot of BS. Someone has led you astray of fact and truth and principle.
Students are NOT prevented from prayer in schools, provided their practice or prayer is not effectively or implicitely forced on others, does not interfere with the orderly progress of business, and does not restrict or impose upon the freedom to do otherwise by others.
You also make the claim that,
"The idea of seperation of church and states does NOT exist in any legal U.S. document (i.e. Bill of rights, Constitution, ammendments, Dec. of Independence, etc.)".
Actually it does, but I'm not going to waste my time digging out specific examples, since if you cared to know, you too could "google" the decisions of the Supreme Court and find many many such occurances.
The exact phrasing, "seperation of church and state", does not appear in the Constitution, but it's logical equivalent does.
Do have the courtesy to note that, the phrase, "freedom of religion", DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE CONSTITUTION!
Thus, should we accept the falacious reasoning you are attempting to impose on us in the above, then neither you nor I nor anyone else in the United States of America has any "freedom of religion.
Lets stop this viscious and slanderous propaganda campaign against the Constitution by far right wing estremist evangelicals and either learn what the truth is or speak the truth!
Remember, lying is a sin! Lying is a sin even if you do so in the name of your religion.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
bdgee ... I agree wholeheartedly about the seperation of church and state. Most people do not even understand what that means and the true purpose for it.
dp
Posts: 741 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2006
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I know the world is filled with maniac dictators. But I think you need to evaluate each one based on their imminent threat and their ability to inflict harm on a vast amount of people.
The tyrants in those poor African countries pose very little outside threat. They don't have all the key ingredients to even conquer surrounding African nations.
I'm talking about men with money, power, influence, military might, terrorist/insurgent connections, insane allies, and unstable mental conditions.
My point is, I don't think we should have an across-the-board policy to mind our own business and never step in no matter what is happening in the world around us.
And no, I don't think we should try to force any other country to be like us. But when given the choice and a viable opportunity, I think most humans that roam the earth would opt for the types of freedoms we enjoy in America - no matter how unperfect things in America are.
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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I am so sick of hearing if we had just let the Nazi's have there way I could throw up. What do you think we did America in no way wanted to go to war Rosevelt won the election on the peace platform we turned back jews to Germany that were running from Hilter. We went to war With Germany because Germany and Italy officially declared war on us. And started to sink our ships until then we did every thing in our power to not go to war. And rosevelt election was proof of the way the nation felt
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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This is what you said earlier as a justification for being in Iraq.
"You know, you're right. We really should leave Muslims alone to continue to opress women, homosexuals, infidels (non-Muslims), and children. Yes, women should never have the right to vote or even be allowed to drive a car, let alone have an abortion or choose the man she wishes to marry. Women really should be forced at gunpoint to have sex.
It's great that rape is legal and the drinking of alchohol is illegal. It's so wonderful for society to use religion to teach hatred of other cultures and other faiths. Religious abuse is grand.
"We really should be tolerant and understanding of a religion that tolerates no one and no other religion. We should cater to a group of people kill each other over rumors, lies, and propaganda.
Yes, we definitely need to pattern U.S. culture after the wonderful Islamist qualities of intolerance, hatred, murder, rape, torture, zero civil rights, religious abuse, etc."
It had nothing to do with "imminent threat".
Now you change it to this:
"I know the world is filled with maniac dictators. But I think you need to evaluate each one based on their imminent threat and their ability to inflict harm on a vast amount of people.
The tyrants in those poor African countries pose very little outside threat. They don't have all the key ingredients to even conquer surrounding African nations.
I'm talking about men with money, power, influence, military might, terrorist/insurgent connections, insane allies, and unstable mental conditions.
My point is, I don't think we should have an across-the-board policy to mind our own business and never step in no matter what is happening in the world around us.
And no, I don't think we should try to force any other country to be like us. But when given the choice and a viable opportunity, I think most humans that roam the earth would opt for the types of freedoms we enjoy in America - no matter how unperfect things in America are."
Which is it??? Again I ask, do we go to each one of those countries where ruthless dictators are killing thousands upon thousands of their own people, or do we go to the ones that serve our best interests?
Posts: 1235 | From: Anacortes, WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I said that in response to bdgee's claim that we are degrading and opressing the Muslim society.
My point was we are not the opressors or degraders...
Political and cultural change rarely takes place without the loss of innocent life.
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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If you think our policy over seas is so holy look what an honest 2 time medal of honor winner had to say about his part in it Major General Smedley Butler USMC
I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. ( what the hell do you think has changed)
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by APJEMI: Am I the only conservative Bush supporter on this post? Believe me I do my homework when it comes to politics and I stand by my convictions as I am sure most all of you do. I guess we see things through different lenses.
dp
Although I am sorry for you if, after all the obvious lies and abuses of almost everything "American" by The Great Prevaricator, you can still actually believe anything he says or imagine that he even halfway cares about the U.S and its people.
If you are, indeed, a true conservative and, as you say, "do your homework" rather than spouting vulgarisms of reason and logic that are supposed to stand in for truth and fact, then "Welcome, Sir". I know I will not be a lone in that sentiment.
Take care here in deciding just who is a conservative or a liberal or that either designation is fitting to someone. They may seem either or both or the other, but they are usually far more determined toward facts and reason than political bent.
But PLEASE do not come here and attempt to deride some view or push your beliefs through political spin and BS or expect anyone to accept those as facts. And do not expect to be allowd to overwhelm these folk with volumes of rhetoric or by weight of "cut and pastings" from the pens of such BS masters as Fat Rush the Doper or that bunch of vermine dubya installed in the Whate House after Daddy dubya pardoned them to keep them out of the federal many-bar for the Iran/contra crimes.
Party loyalty is ALWAYS trumped by facts and logic.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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I believe these events took place betwen 1900 and 1948 and any one who thinks different should learn wich end of an m16 to put against there shoulder and do something about it. It may open there eyes
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Team Sleep: I said that in response to bdgee's claim that we are degrading and opressing the Muslim society.
My point was we are not the opressors or degraders...
Political and cultural change rarely takes place without the loss of innocent life.
You need to learn not to misrepresent what I say.
I MADE NO SUCH CLAIM as,
"we are degrading and opressing the Muslim society."
I spoke of how things appear to them, not us or me or god!
If you can't read and understand what is said, then you need to take care to not claim you can and not replace things with your bent on what is said, thereby misrepresenting facts and misrepresenting others and at least verging on insinuation.
If you intended the insinuations, then.....
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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"forcing values that those cultures believe sinful, degrading, and destructive upon them. Additionally, they believe we and our ways of life commonly partake in practices that are, in their culture, despicable and forbidden and intended to disgrace their most fundamental beliefs. There is no evidence to the contrary and they need only look at the sickening treatement of their people to find proof of their fears."
Enough said.
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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"....I can see quite well that they can believe what Bush and his ilk mean to do ..., which is forcing values that those cultures believe sinful, degrading, and destructive.......etc, etc. etc..."
Notice that I spoke not of what we do, but what the people of that culture believe we do. You convieniently neglected to put that essentail ingredient of the statemant in, didn't you?
I did not, as you blunty and slanderously assert, "...claim that we are degrading and opressing(sic) the Muslim society."
Your assertion is false. Apparantly intentionally! Even after pointing the falsity out to you, you reassert it. Thus, I find conclusively that either you are hopelessly dishonest or hopelessly incapable of reading and understanding the English language. Thus, In the future, as I do not have the time or inclination to teach you to read and have no hope of teaching you to think, refrain, absolutely, from attempting to "explain or report on or interpret" anything I may say or do, as you are either bent on misrepresenting truth, disdainful of it, or incapalbe of recognizing truth.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Yeah badgedee..... Keep it up! blee blee blah blah..... I'll translate what you just said in your post.
1. You hate America 2. You hate our President 3. You hate freedom 4. You hate Americans 5. You support Saddam Hussein & you know he's innocent 6. You want Hussein back in power 7. You hope Usama Bon Aladdin will never be captured 8. You're Cindy Sheehan's BIGGEST SUPPORTER 9. YOU'RE UN-AMERICAN
As for me.....
1. I LOVE THE USA 2. I LOVE & SUPPORT PRESIDENT GW BUSH 3. I LOVE AMERICAN FREEDOM 4. I LOVE AMERICANS IN GENERAL 5. HUSSEIN IS GUILTY AS CHARGED 6. HUSSEIN WILL FRY 7. USAMA BON ALADDIN WILL BE CAPTURED SOON 8. I THINK CINDY SHEEHAN NEEDS FREAKIN' EMPLOYMENT AND A LIFE TO GO WITH IT 9. I'M PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN, DAMMIT!!!
-------------------- "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE U.S./CHINA CONNECTION"
quote:Originally posted by bond006: If you think our policy over seas is so holy look what an honest 2 time medal of honor winner had to say about his part in it Major General Smedley Butler USMC
I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. ( what the hell do you think has changed)
bond. If you read your post quickly, It sounds as if you are speaking about your self. LMAO....Had me and Jelly thinking you were about 190 years old. Too funny!
Ok back to topic.
-------------------- Lil,
Dont LOSE more than you can afford to invest....LOL
I'm buying low and selling into the run... Posts: 8024 | From: Joisey....see attitude above | Registered: Jan 2004
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Yes Bond. Lil is right. I actually called her and asked her how old you were. I got nervous that you were'nt gonna be around long enough to watch PBLS go next week or 2. LOL
Posts: 1632 | From: NJ | Registered: Nov 2005
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I am fine I was a non commissioned officer in the US Army and I am 56 years old not to worry I still have a few good years left and I don't like DWE ps I was air borne
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
to Team Sleep:: I certainly do enjoy your comments. They are right on. You get your point across without denigrating anyone else's points of view. There are a few others who could do well to try to be a little more kind and gracious when responding to someone they do not agree with.
With respect, dp
Posts: 741 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2006
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-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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