Just went through your 4 AM ramblings. Impressive! While I find some minor points on which to digress, I find your overall thesis and thought process very coherent, and quite pointed for the situation we face.
You're right. To withdraw is to invite an even greater conflagration than is now faced by the people of Iraq, the United States or other countries. However, to "stay the course and achieve victory so we don't dishonor those who have died" (what about those who will die?) is equally ludicrous. There's an apocryphal definition of insanity that goes, "If you keep doing what you've already done you'll get the same results you've already gotten."
Let's not be insane. Let's develop alternative strategies that will not only help our country achieve it's goals (yes, I'm as concerned about terrorism as anyone - I was supposed to be on a plane on 9-11 and one of my closest friends was booked on the flight out of Boston; only a last minute change saved his life) but will also establish equally strong, free and democratic countries. What you are advocating is to "internationalize" the fight in Iraq and, more, the war against terrorism. Whether the UN is the vehicle to do that or not (and, even as a supporter I have concerns) is open to question, but it is clear that this needs to be done. Perhaps another way to consider is to more fully engage key countries as full partners in this battle (Israel - solve the Palestinian problem; China - step up to be a world player; Russia - re-engage if you want to have any influence down the road...you get the idea).
Debate. Open discussion. Consideration of differences and alternatives. This is what the US is about, and how it was founded. We need to re-engage and bring about a public debate to address the problem of Iraq (without getting sidetracked about faulty intelligence, why we are there, etc - it is clear that it as NOT a battlefield against terrorism until GWBco got us there) because Iraq is the problem we face, today and tomorrow.
So, as one who was firmly opposed to the war in Iraq from the outset, who firmly believes that Bush did not win the election in 2000 nor should have won it in 2004 - I find myself in the peculiar position of agreeing with his premise that we can't put forth a timetable for withdrawal (ouch! that hurt)....but for reasons much different than his. He thinks it is for honor and to achieve victory. I think it is to do the best possible with the horrible thing he has done. But...whatever. We're there. Let's not make the same mistake that was made in Vietnam (oops...I'm showing my age). Let's do what needs to be done to win the fight - increase troop levels, partner with countries/groups that can counter-balance the Qaedas and others driving the violence, address the real concerns and needs of the "vast majority/minority" that silently support/acquiesce to the violence (not only Iraq but elsewhere), show that the US can understand and accept the concerns/differences of others even as it maintains focus on its self-interest (you wouldn't expect anything else, would you?), maintain the principles of human dignity and law we uphold in our constitution without sacrificing them to the expediency of the moment....all this and more because we must.
-------------------- Remember two things: You love New York City and leave only your footprints.
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I instead, will answer questions... I don't bring up other's quotations in other boards in which they have no relevance... For example, your incessant posting of BuyTex's comment... What good does that cause? What does it do, period?
I offer my solution (or idea, as it may be...we may be beyond any solution at this point)... as well as other's... I attack and offer my reasons for such an attack...
Two sentence posts trying to win an argument (if you wish to call it that...maybe defend oneself from the clear one-sided assault) does nothing... Show me facts... State your case... Show me your solution... Bankrupt my ideas... Do something...
Don't give me the "Bush is an idiot" argument... He might be... He might not... Who knows. Have you ever met the guy? Have you ever discussed affairs with him? Maybe the actions he took were the only forseeable solutions at the time... I have no idea... I am not privy to his received intelligence...
I'm just saying--> It's not the person, it's the system... And a horrible system could lead to elections of not so liked presidents...
It just bothers me when people say Gore could've done a much better job... or Kerry could've fixed this... Well, how do you know that? I really just think we'd be in a much worse economic situation than we are in right now... And we can't blame the economics on the president (although higher taxes don't help) but on corporate corruption...
How many corporations have been shut down or investigated recently because of improper business practices? Wasn't it funny that these companies thrived under Clinton's office? Or were we just too busy with other things to notice...
C'mon give me something to work with... I don't like arguing with myself... I can't lose...
-------------------- Remember two things: You love New York City and leave only your footprints.
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quote:How many corporations have been shut down or investigated recently because of improper business practices? Wasn't it funny that these companies thrived under Clinton's office? Or were we just too busy with other things to notice...
may wanna to dig around a bit on this one...good starting place would be Cox's record.
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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