Evangelical Churches Shutting Doors on Christmas Associated Press Monday, December 5, 2005
North Point Community Church in Alpharetta will be shuttered and dark on Christmas Sunday.
So will central Kentucky's largest church, in a move drawing some criticism among the faithful.
The Alpharetta church and Southland Christian Church near Lexington are joining several evangelical megachurches across the country in canceling services for the holiday.
Megachurch officials around the country say they consulted with each other before deciding to take the day off. Some say the decision was lifestyle-friendly for people with very busy schedules
most of these churches have become little more than Political Action Committees...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Jesus was Jewish? so he practiced the sabbath on a different day from Christians...
Jesus was a Jew by birth, but was not "Jewish" in practice as we think of it today. Jesus, the Jew, had many teachings that are counter to "Jewish" tradition.
Traditional Jews of today have not accepted Jesus as the Messiah, and do not accept his teachings as the word of God.
Posts: 722 | From: Richmond, Va , USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Since I have read all the board... Does that mean I can skip Church this Sunday....... I am ready to hand in a offering, but do not know who to give it to..........................
Posts: 172 | Registered: Oct 2003
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The commandment says to work 6 days and honor God on the seventh. Note it does not say the 7th day is Saturday or Sunday. For all we know the 7th day is Wednesday. What is important is that we devote the 7th day to God. Probably if you go back in Church history, Sunday was placed at the beginning of the week to honor it. I haven't researched it but it makes sense. No one really considers it the start of the week, that being Monday, even though it is the first day of the week according to the calendar. Then again, it would be a simple matter to change the start date of the calendar to make Sunday appear at the end of the week not the beginning.
People worry too much about the trivial. My church had a 10 week Sunday School class devoted to whether Christ and his disciples sat at a table at the last supper as portrayed in most paintings or reclined on pillows which would be more historically accurate. Does it make any difference to God's word whether they were at a table or lying on the floor?
Don't sweat the small stuff. I've always considered Sunday to be the seventh day, I honor it as such.
Posts: 559 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
If you look on a calandar Sunday is the first day of the week. Monday is the first business day. If you read the Bible, Genesis specifically, God rested on the seventh day of creation(Exodus 20:11). That was literally the worlds seventh day (according to creationists). That first Sabbath set the time line still observed by the Jews, God's chosen people. If you look at history, the Christian church changed the Sabbath to Sunday because that was the day the Pagans worshipped the sun. They thought if they made it easy on the Pagans they could convert more of them to Christianity. More members = more money in the church coffers. That is the same reason Christmas and Easter are celebrated when they are, at times of year already important to the Pagans. The fourth commandment doesn't say any old seventh day is the Sabbath, it says THE seventh day is the Sabbath. Again, that God would put it in the Commandments if it were a trivial day seems most unGod-like. I do find it interesting that Christians pick and choose what is important to them in the Bible, and ignore or make excuses for what they don't think is important. I guess that explains why there are so many different organized denominations (Catholic and hundreds of Protestant) all under the umbrella of 'Christian'. None of them can agree on what exactly it all means...
[ December 07, 2005, 20:17: Message edited by: LEO ]
Posts: 1235 | From: Anacortes, WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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It's not picking and choosing, some things in the Bible are more important. The day the Sabbath is celebrated is not one of them. It is important that it is celebrated.
If you want to get technical about it, Sunday is believed to be the day Christ was resurrected and there are several scriptures listing that day as the first Christian worship service after Christ's ressurection.
There are also scriptures which downplay the importance of a specific day of the week as the sabbath.
Posts: 559 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Again, how do we know that any day is the day that God selected as the sabbath? We know for a fact that Saturday throughout all of history, no matter what the name it was called has survived intact all these thousands of years to today?
This arguement is a prime reason why some people have such a hard time with religion. They want to take everything literally while ignoring the overall message. Or look at small things and then claim the big stuff is impossible because of so called contradictions in the scriptures or beliefs of various individuals.
It's like the Sunday school class worrying about sitting at a table or lying on the floor. What does it matter? It doesn't matter at all yet they spent 10 weeks discussing it. 10 weeks which would have been better served discussing the message of Christ.
Posts: 559 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
No, the "reason why some people have such a hard time with religion" is because of assumptions like this:
"We know for a fact that Saturday throughout all of history, no matter what the name it was called has survived intact all these thousands of years to today?"
All history? Do you include the ancient Japanese and the Chinese or any other asian society?
How about the Incas or the Anastasi?
Did the ancient Greeks or Egyptians have a week at all or some similar designation for a short period of time that repeats? Did the various cultures of that time, even those in close contact, have any sot of a common calender? And if they did, how many days were in it?
What day of the week did the Comanche declare to be a day of rest? Did they allow raiding on that day? What did they call it?
Indeed, what is clear is that we know for a fact that a seven day week with days of whatever name was NOT the custom or system of most of the cultures of the world's history. Certainly, even in the time of the Romans they "adjusted" the calander and the names of the various parts to suit the egos of the politicis in power in the day.
Absent assumptions that the bible is based on fact or is not, there is no valid argument for concluding it is correct or incorrect.
Logic isn't religious; it isn't personal; and it isn't concerned with the conclusions it forces. Remeber the rule: G
Garbage in, garbage out.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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I suggest you read carefully before you reply. Note the " ? " at the end of the sentence.
Thanks for supporting my arguement concerning the impossibility of knowing the exact day of the sabbath however.
Posts: 559 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
if you dont believe in the bible as fact then you will lead an easier,simpler, and guilt-free life. I follow a moral compass. Dont need no stinkin book to tell me how to live
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
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You assume a thing and want me to allow it because of a question mark? Your arguments don't work withoiut assumption of what is fact. Logic doesn't care what you believe. And you have made it clear that you don't care what anyone else believes, but insist on the power and authority to force them to accept your illogical nonsense.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: if you dont believe in the bible as fact then you will lead an easier,simpler, and guilt-free life. I follow a moral compass. Dont need no stinkin book to tell me how to live
What is the foundation for your moral compass?
Posts: 722 | From: Richmond, Va , USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: if you dont believe in the bible as fact then you will lead an easier,simpler, and guilt-free life. I follow a moral compass. Dont need no stinkin book to tell me how to live
What is the foundation for your moral compass?
The question of the "things" in the Bible itself being a fact or not is irrelevant. The real question should be "is the Bible the word of God or not"? It being so, would mean that whatever the Bible contains is what God wants us to have.
The Bible is a puzzle, the easy stuff is on the surface, ie, Jesus came to earth, died, and rose on the the third day. The stories, parables, etc are all available to everyone. Just like in modern life, one must crawl before walking, and walk before running. You must have an understanding and acceptance of the basics before getting into the "meat" of the Bible. I see people on boards like this one all the time who have so many questions about the Bible and God, and life in general, yet they aren't willing to take "baby steps" first.
I don't know all of the answers, but I do know that the Bible is much deeper and more complicated than most people will ever discover.
Posts: 722 | From: Richmond, Va , USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: if you dont believe in the bible as fact then you will lead an easier,simpler, and guilt-free life. I follow a moral compass. Dont need no stinkin book to tell me how to live
What is the foundation for your moral compass?
The question of the "things" in the Bible itself being a fact or not is irrelevant. The real question should be "is the Bible the word of God or not"? It being so, would mean that whatever the Bible contains is what God wants us to have.
The Bible is a puzzle, the easy stuff is on the surface, ie, Jesus came to earth, died, and rose on the the third day. The stories, parables, etc are all available to everyone. Just like in modern life, one must crawl before walking, and walk before running. You must have an understanding and acceptance of the basics before getting into the "meat" of the Bible. I see people on boards like this one all the time who have so many questions about the Bible and God, and life in general, yet they aren't willing to take "baby steps" first.
I don't know all of the answers, but I do know that the Bible is much deeper and more complicated than most people will ever discover.
Ok fine---but I dont believe in a god, so therefore saying that this bible is the word of god is irrelevant--to me.
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: if you dont believe in the bible as fact then you will lead an easier,simpler, and guilt-free life. I follow a moral compass. Dont need no stinkin book to tell me how to live
What is the foundation for your moral compass?
The question of the "things" in the Bible itself being a fact or not is irrelevant. The real question should be "is the Bible the word of God or not"? It being so, would mean that whatever the Bible contains is what God wants us to have.
The Bible is a puzzle, the easy stuff is on the surface, ie, Jesus came to earth, died, and rose on the the third day. The stories, parables, etc are all available to everyone. Just like in modern life, one must crawl before walking, and walk before running. You must have an understanding and acceptance of the basics before getting into the "meat" of the Bible. I see people on boards like this one all the time who have so many questions about the Bible and God, and life in general, yet they aren't willing to take "baby steps" first.
I don't know all of the answers, but I do know that the Bible is much deeper and more complicated than most people will ever discover.
Ok fine---but I dont believe in a god, so therefore saying that this bible is the word of god is irrelevant--to me.
Fair enough. Then you have chosen.
Posts: 722 | From: Richmond, Va , USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: instersting implication that you have to 'splain a moral compass...
just because the ten commandments provide a decent set of ground rules don't mean we would be animals without them...
the fact that they do provide such also doesn't prove the existence of God....
i see way too many people in very high places with religion pillaging (if not raping)
You're right about that...it's sad too...that people in high places of trust seemingly aren't so trustworthy.
The ten commandments, though great in their own right, are not really the morality/teachings I'm referring to. The teachings of Jesus on love, patience, kindess, faith, child rearing, correction, etc, etc, etc, are the one's that I mean...the things that we can apply to real life.
The reason I ask about the foundation of the compass is because somebody else's compass will differ slightly from his. Without a standard everybody is doing their "own" thing, with no accountability to anyone or anything, which is partially why we have so many problems today. The bible presents a good standard, whether you believe it is the word of God or not. People may think they don't need a stinkin book to guide their morality, but if everyone were to use it the world would be a much better place.
The ten commandments, though greatly influential in Christian faith is only part of it... so much more was added by Jesus.
Posts: 722 | From: Richmond, Va , USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: Dont need no stinkin book to tell me how to live I dont just Think that, but I know it also----and niether do you---do you?
quote:Originally posted by Aylobaha Gafuleya: The Holy Bible: What's In It For Me?
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: Dont need no stinkin book to tell me how to live I dont just Think that, but I know it also----and niether do you---do you?
That question is the root of most of society's problems, "whats in it for me?"
Posts: 722 | From: Richmond, Va , USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Aylobaha Gafuleya: The Holy Bible: What's In It For Me?
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: Dont need no stinkin book to tell me how to live I dont just Think that, but I know it also----and niether do you---do you?
My life will go on with our without it, as will yours.
When my life is over I would rather have lived it with purpose to a high standard and find out that I was wrong, than to meander through life with no path or guidance and find out I was wrong.
Posts: 722 | From: Richmond, Va , USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Aylobaha Gafuleya: The Holy Bible: What's In It For Me?
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: Dont need no stinkin book to tell me how to live I dont just Think that, but I know it also----and niether do you---do you?
My life will go on with our without it, as will yours.
When my life is over I would rather have lived it with purpose to a high standard and find out that I was wrong, than to meander through life with no path or guidance and find out I was wrong.
Just to add one more thing. It's not so much the need...but the fact that I know too much to go back now. Not trying to say I "know it all" or "have seen it all", but I know enough, have seen enough, and experienced enough to never go back. Kind-of like when you're reading a book, watching a movei, or hiking a trail, and you've experienced just enough to make you want to know what's around the next corner, and you keep going. That's where I am. People that choose the path of Christ eventually find that it's not all about faith all the time, but moreso experience and understanding because of what faith has revealed. Like I said, it's much deeper than most people will ever discover.
Posts: 722 | From: Richmond, Va , USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
its much shallower than most people will ever discover. dont be scared to accept the truth-not the superstition and fairytales.Lead a good and happy life, according to your personal belief, as will I. ----------Jordanreed: chapter 1; verse 1
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Doesn't the fact that the Ten Commandments were plagerized bother the chosen?
Do you really think people didn't already have those rules before the burning bush, even if they hadn't heard of China or India?
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Wow, what a discussion this turned out to be. A lot of great points brought up by everyone. The Bible sure can spark some controversy. What some find to be trivial about certain parts of it others take to their hearts. So interesting...Way to bring the rest of the world (that being the so called secular)into perspective bdgee...
Posts: 1235 | From: Anacortes, WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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