quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Interesting posts. The way I see it, you can get out sooner or later, but with the same ending, but you will have to keep sending more body bags.
quote:Originally posted by 4Art: Sadly, I provide source material for my arguments, while you merely spout off whatever crapola works for you at the time.
Don't forget: we're the only country that has ever used nuclear weapons against a civilian population.
You are, by your own admission, merely an agitator.
6,475,988,992 people on this planet, and you are just ONE of them.
Not important at all, really.
This is not a challenge of link-finders. this is a battle of wits... (you are losing) Show me some sort of evidence written by anything bipedal (bipedal means walks on two feet..... all the time) That the US is horrible... Bush intends to take over the world... Or any other drivel you can come up with.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt.
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"American foreign and defense policy is adrift. Conservatives have criticized the incoherent policies of the Clinton Administration. They have also resisted isolationist impulses from within their own ranks. But conservatives have not confidently advanced a strategic vision of America's role in the world. They have not set forth guiding principles for American foreign policy. They have allowed differences over tactics to obscure potential agreement on strategic objectives. And they have not fought for a defense budget that would maintain American security and advance American interests in the new century.
We aim to change this. We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership."
Elliott Abrams, Gary Bauer, William J. Bennett, Jeb Bush,
Dick Cheney, Eliot A. Cohen, Midge Decter, Paula Dobriansky, Steve Forbes,
Aaron Friedberg, Francis Fukuyama, Frank Gaffney, Fred C. Ikle,
Donald Kagan, Zalmay Khalilzad , I. Lewis Libby, Norman Podhoretz,
Dan Quayle, Peter W. Rodman, Stephen P. Rosen, Henry S. Rowen,
Donald Rumsfeld, Vin Weber, George Weigel, and Paul Wolfowitz
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I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public.
quote:Originally posted by RiescoDiQui: this is a battle of wits... (you are losing)
-------------------- I know it well, sir: you have an exchequer of words, and, I think, no other treasure to give your followers; for it appears by their bare liveries that they live by your bare words.
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European Unions, League Of Nations, United Nations...
Bush speaks to congreess Sept 11th 1991 talking about new worls order. Dan quayle on video talking about new world order.
They even named it PAX AMERICANA!
What do you think is going to happen when we "liberate" the majority of the world?
Do you think with 99% of the world goverments are Democratic there will be no more wars or starving?
What happens when a Democratic society attacks another?
The answer to all our problems (because aparently becoming a democracy didn't solve all the problems) so we must all ban together as ONE nation.. That will surely solve the problems..
You think we plan on sitting in america here with these little resources forever? How do you think we got this size in the first place?
What do you think we're doing in space, spending BILLIONS of taxpayer money to do? Why was there ever a space race?
If we could build on the moon we would do it in a second to claim space on the moon.
Mans quest for control and power is part of human nature. As is global conquest.
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quote:Art talk to a few of the sevice person's coming home to the US.
I would suspect that if you count the number killed over the last 20 years it may be many more than 100,000 killed by US forces.
Talk to the service men? How the hell would they have any clue?
I'm sure the f15 fighter or the b52 that drops a JDAM counts how many people that one bomb blew up.
They don't know..
If you want to talk to the soldiers go talk to one of the 15k that are wounded. How many of them dont have legs or arms.
Ask them how it's going.
Ask them if they enjoy their $900 a month.
Ask the ones that went in 1991 how their gulf war syndrome is going if they're not dead yet (and we won't count those that die 5 years after the war as casualties either because they don't count).
You know how old those kids are that are getting killed? They aren't 50 year old farts, the majorty of them are 17-30 year olds.
We tell 17 year olds they cant drink but we sure as hell don't mind giving them a gun to kill someone or get killed themselves as long as it's on the old rich mans agenda.
When a 17 year old kid gets in trouble it's because he doesnt know any better... But when he signs up for the army or whatever, and goes, gets killed you go calling them jackasses by choosing to go fight and know they may die...
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MasterQuinn- Watch who you call 50 year old farts. A lot of fifty year old farts and older have a better sense of what combat is about than most 20 and 30 year olds. I think the average age for a combat soldier in Vietnam was 19, which is most likely younger than the average age of a combat soldier in Iraq. That's not a good point' it's just a point.
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LOL.. no offense on the numbers.. ok.. change the 50 to 75, is that ok then?
Actually I was implying when I said 17-30 that over 30 were higher level commanders, sergeants whatever.. I know this positions are obviously dangerous but there would be a ratio of probably 1:30 or whatever in your squad so there would be less of them in the line of battle (like managers at a company but they get shot at).
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I think I know what you saying.The higher ranking soldiers (which would normally be older) are more interested in the politics than the real part of the war. If this is the case I would say that trend is more toward the officers, than the sergeants. The officers usually want statistics.(body counts etc.) The sergeants usually have been in combat, they might not dissagree with the officers but they usually are for the combat soldier and what he is going through.
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The one aspect of war that does not seem to come up, is that the military personnal that are looking to stay in for a long time really need these wars to help them gain rank more easily and to build their military resume, that includes the young and old.
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they wanna fight, and there is no shame in that...
their job is to follow orders and come up with an executable plan to WIN.. the politicians are the ones that screw this stuff up all the time...
and? it is the citizens job to demand the politicians do their job correctly...
as far as i'm concerned? it's crazy to send in our troops to be "cops"... they need a green light, or they need a new target, or they need to come home... the fact that the job isn't finished is NOT the troops fault... they HAVE been following orders..even at abu-graib...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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You are right glassman, but the politicans never learn. We have fought in the last three wars under the same rules. Korea which we came out of a little better, Vietnam and now Iraq. We fight under the Geneva Convention and a few other rules and the enemy fights under their rules. The enemy knows this and uses to their advantage. They also know that the american public would not tolarate anything different. We might get away with a few infractions but not many. This is a no win from the start and the soldier suffers for this.
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It isn't difficult to learn that war betweem nations of difereent cultures never end.
Now before someone comes up with the US and Japan in WWII, I point out that Japan was, as far back as 1900, operating in the mold of the west. They even dressed like us. (Well, yaw'll....I don't think they had progressed as far as jeans and Stetsons and riding boots until after that war.)
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Thank goodness for some of the military people that will take a chance and break rules when necessary to save american soldiers lives.
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Exactly how is sodomizing a detainee with a light stick saving American lives?
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Thank goodness for some of the military people that will take a chance and break rules when necessary to save american soldiers lives.
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You guy's are slipping, it took you several day's to nail me on this statement. I knew someone would bring this up, unfortunately these situations exist to. My thinking is more with the soldier in combat that's in and out of the cities.
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quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: You guy's are slipping, it took you several day's to nail me on this statement. I knew someone would bring this up, unfortunately these situations exist to. My thinking is more with the soldier in combat that's in and out of the cities.
------------------------------------------------- As Nam Vets we have put up with assassination squads on our character for years..
The vast majority of these little people never served they're country in peace time or combat.
Remember your own words, *it ain't no big deal*..
We used to have a saying in my unit,* when I get back to the World nobody is going to believe this sh it over here anyway, so ain't saying nothing*
Hell, I gave up trying to kick everybodys ass that called me a baby killer.
I did get the satisfaction of re-arranging the faces of a few * Puke for brains idiots* though.
The funny part is these guys that messed with me seemed to forget I have been trained to kill, without emotion....Those were basicaly the words my attorney used, to a judge, to get me out of a little dustup in Aransas Pass Texas.
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Top of the morning to ya glassman! Thanks for the input.
Hey, my kid left Costa Rica and is now safe back in her home in Kona Hawaii, they kept they're apartment while they were in Costa Rica, those long 4 months.
Sooo, as soon as money conditions improve, we will be heading to Kona and Maui for about a month.
We need to get your *glassmans glassheads* in the water and see what they can catch!
Hope ya don't mind me naming your creation, but thats what I tell fisherman they are called when I show um around!
Hope ya don't sue me!!!!!!hehe LOL
Really want to get one of those glass heads in front of a Big Pacific Blue Marlin!
Ono, Mahi, Aku and Ahi will hit um too, just gota get um in the water.
I will try one on a custom gold plated spinner for salmon and Steelhead, but I just don't want to lose one just yet.
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Yep 5 should do it depending on diameter. The beveled ones would pop, smoke, dive, an jump like a flying fish, when at surface trolling speed..
The smaller they are the faster you can troll.
I'd like to see a staggered pattern of 7 of um. Maybe a couple more at the shotgun position off the transum for Mahi and Tuna, although I have seen Marlin hit right in the prop blast behind the transum.
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Have a little humor guy's this is not combat. This particular event that happened in a detainee camp was one person leading, getting there kicks for personnal satisfaction (sick). I don't think it was for war reasons. News media making a point of this, yet not pointing out what these detainees have done. Have some humor guys, Senator McCain has a great sense of humor after all he went through, tell him about about the Geneva Convention, and the general electric hour. I don't remember to much about Vietnam, I remember more of the humorous things. I was in the 1/7cav and spent 2 months in a LRRP unit. I know for a fact that we were in Cambodia before we were legally in Cambodia, which was against all rules. This was for good reason to help save lives. I did different things in my unit. towards the end of my tour of duty (I love the word tour, it sounds like a cake walk) I was an RTO for the captain towards the end of my tour. Our unit would occasionally patrol thru rubber plantations which were no fire zones, someone forgot to tell the enemy this. One time we were pinned down inside of one of these plantations we could not get any fire support, which is the first thing you try before advancing, to keep casualties down. Lucky for us a jet fighter was close and on our frequancy, he heard our problem and said he would be happy to help out, he unloaded on the enemy saving our butts. He could have been court martial for breaking the rules , but choose to help us out and save lives. There were many more situations like this in Vietnam and I am sure in Iraq. I bet they are 1000 fold to the one the news media decides to print. There are a lot worse things that could happen to these detainees than this. Just put some of the soldiers in these camps that had to find the body parts of their friends after a fire fight or a mine in the road blows up.
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Dustoff do you think these guys get that almost everything surrounding these wars has serious consequences. The soldiers need to be protected every way possible, a lot of the american public is not up to these consequences.
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