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Pagan
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Grand jury indicts top Cheney aide Libby

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- A federal grand jury indicted top White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby on five charges, including perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements, the Justice Department announced Friday. Libby is Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff. The indictments wrap up a two-year investigation by special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald into the disclosure of the identity of a CIA agent whose husband was a vocal critic of the administration's rationale for the Iraq War

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glassman
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tip of the iceberg.....

this is gonna be a long painful process..

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bdgee
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I don't think it is "wrapped up" and apparantly neither does the prosecutor. There will be more later...
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STAR GAZER
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This is a sad sad testimony of how we treat people didicated to helping America. Libby Jr. quit a high paying job as a lawyer to serve his country. He is know as a quiet dedicated man. Spending hours at his office working a tracking down terrorists. Every time he was asked to go before the grand jury or submit documents he went out of his way to give every document in his possesion to the grand jury and prosecuter. Over the years of this investigation, at times when he gave testimony to the grand jury, he got some DATES mixed up of when he had talked to people. Almost two years ago, the prosecution realized that there was no case against him, that he had done nothing wrong. And yet they kept hounding, or a better word, persecuting him. Today when the prosecuter gave his inditement he went on and on about how Americans had to be kept informed and the CIA operatives protected. How despicable it was for someone to compramise a CIA operative. When a reporter finally asked what Libby had specifically done to compramise the covert identity of a CIA agent, the prosecuter had the gall to say that Libby had done nothing to compramise the covert identy of a CIA agent, but during the two years of the investigtation he had mistated some dates on when he talked to people and so he was being charged with perjury and the prosecuters office will try to get a 5 year prison sentence against him. And, oh, by the way this makes President Bush look bad to have Libby indited. People will think that one of his top aids, and by insinuation, President Bush deliberately tried to harm a CIA agent. How many high quality people are going to give up their time and money to get posts in the government if they know that even if they do an excellent job and dedicate themselves to working for America, and thus for the American people AND DO NOTHING WRONG, that they will face prosection and possible years in jail, just because some people think that it will be to their political advantage to attack them. Sad, Sad, Sad day for America.
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Leo
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It is a sad day when an indictment is served to the White House. So far the markets don't seem to be negatively affected by it...
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glassman
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stargazer? you are joking right? quit a high paying paying job to serve the country? and confused his dates? he deliberately misled the investigators to hide who did leak the name, and the money at stake in all of this makes any CEO's paycheck look like minimum wage....


seems you missed the point entirely...
SOMEBODY did compromise the identity of a CIA agent and those charges haven't been filed yet...
and the reason they did it was POLITICAL, it had nothing to do with protecting our nation...

so many people refuse to see the truth of what has been going on....

that is the sadest part of all....

blind by choice....

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bdgee
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Nah, Glass..., the Party faithful are not capable of recognizing truth or they would have abandoned this bunch of crooks long ago...they don't have an optiion to select from and make it a choice, just blind obedience.

[ October 28, 2005, 19:58: Message edited by: bdgee ]

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glassman
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check out this statement of principles page...

pay attention to all of the names....

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

William Kristol, Chairman, was interviewed on Fox News several times today. even he wasn't defending Libby when i saw him....
my guess is these guys are hoping somebody can take all of the blame so it will go away....

the domino tipping is picking up speed...


Ronald Reagan once said the truth is stubborn..... he was correct, as long as stubborn people stay "on the job"

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bdgee
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Yes, I did check the list and I. Lewis Libby lies thereon.

And among their claimed objectives is "we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles".

This bunch has done exactly the opposite. They have turned once friendly governments and people into enemies, who think we do not deserve an "international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles". Why sould they believe in our principles when we have demonstrated none?

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glassman
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Fitzgerald flat out said that he can't charge anybody with the crime of passing classified information YET, because of all the lying that IS going on...
but he thinks he can PROVE Libby intentionally obstructed his investigation...

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MasterQuinn
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Is it really lieing when you believe your own lies? Interesting... Bunch of jokers run this country..

I love Bush's "Someday soon we'll be able to put things on our houses to collect the sun and store the energy. We're working on these things and moving forward"

LOL.. Reality.. Hello, where am I.. Oh that's right, when you're born and your family makes 100 MILLION a month you live in a different world and you can't possibly understand the majority of how your own country lives.

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STAR GAZER
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Open your eyes people. Fitzgerald has spent two years trying to come up with something to charge some one. He can't charge anyone with the crime of passing classified information because it never happened. Once again, if highly qualified people see that they can be hounded and even possibly end up serving a jail sentence just to serve someone's political agenda, then it will limit the number of good people that will take time out from their own careers to serve their country. Don't think you can spend jail time for something you didn't do? Ask Martha Stewart.
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4Art
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I hope so.

quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
tip of the iceberg.....

this is gonna be a long painful process..


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RiescoDiQui
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quote:
Originally posted by 4Art:
I hope so.

quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
tip of the iceberg.....

this is gonna be a long painful process..


Only you could hope to topple the american government 4art.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by STAR GAZER:
Open your eyes people. Fitzgerald has spent two years trying to come up with something to charge some one. He can't charge anyone with the crime of passing classified information because it never happened. Once again, if highly qualified people see that they can be hounded and even possibly end up serving a jail sentence just to serve someone's political agenda, then it will limit the number of good people that will take time out from their own careers to serve their country. Don't think you can spend jail time for something you didn't do? Ask Martha Stewart.

you have it all backwards...

the investigation was started because SOMEONE DID commit a crime, and they are still trying to prove which one it was....


the prosecutor is doing HIS JOB flawlessly... and nobody ( with any knowledge on the subject) is saying anything different

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4Art
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Topple the Government? Not me. I just want justice served to the radical extremists that have hijacked it.
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RiescoDiQui
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radical extremists?
LOL
Come on man.
How the hell is bush an extremist?
War in Iraq that was supported by Clinton you apparent mentor?
Seriously you must get off the crack.... maybe then you could make more than minimum wage and your bitterness would subside.

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4Art
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This from the man who sees the blatent abuses documented at Abu Ghraib as "little more than fraternity pranks."
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glassman
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according to an ex-cia operative that was in Plames' CIA class?

she was not only covert, she was NOC....
that means she had no diplomatic immunity as she traveled around the world collecting and analysing data to protect YOU...

i hope everybody involved in this gets justice...

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4Art
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Yes. EVERYONE.
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4Art
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Cia Leak: Not above the law

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER EDITORIAL BOARD

There is a cancer on the presidency, and it cannot be exorcised by the resignation of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby.

Libby, assistant to the president and Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, has been indicted on five federal counts, including obstruction of justice, making false statement and perjury. The charges stem from the investigation into a leak disclosing that Valerie Plame, wife of former ambassador Joseph Wilson, was a covert CIA operative.

Based on the allegations special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald laid out in the indictments Friday, it's increasingly evident that officials within the Bush administration disclosed Plame's identity as part of an effort to discredit Wilson's criticism of one of the pretexts for war against Iraq.

Fitzgerald said that the investigation remained open, and the indictments make intriguing reference to the conversation another senior White House official, identified only as "Official A," had with columnist Robert Novak in which Wilson's wife was "discussed as a CIA employee."

No matter where the investigation goes from here, the question is why President Bush didn't fire Libby long ago if his role in outing Plame was as clear as the indictments indicate. It raises the uncomfortable and inevitable question: What did the president know and when did he know it?

The larger, more important context goes beyond palace intrigue: the lengths to which the Bush administration was willing to go to protect its trumped-up justifications for an unjustifiable war.


SOURCE

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timberman
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http://gamma.unionleader.com/article.aspx?articleId=7b1bbf04-1011-44d2-93a5-4c0dc7045ce1
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bdgee
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It is a lie that Wilson's wife selected him to be sent to Niger or that it was withing her power to do so. When the CIA decided, in response to pressure from the Vice President's office to verify that there was (or wasn't?) an attempt by Saddam to buy uranium from Niger, they asked thir own expert on such matters who could be sent to Niger to learn the facts. Indeed, she did supply her husbands name, as an experienced Ambassador and expert on Africa. But thaat IS NOT "having something to do with" sending him to Niger", no more than your brother-in-law had "something to do with rebuilding the transmission in your when he recommended that you "take it to the Ford dealer" that repaired the transmission.

Wilson did not lie, the Party lied to say he did.

Neither was it a falshood when Wilson said he had determined that the documents in question were forged. (MOREOVER, Wilson was exactly correct, THE DOCUMENTS WERE FORGERIES!!!} He was supplied with copies of the documents, so he did know the proported dates and that is all that is necessary to determine they were forgeries. It isn't necessary to have the physical document itself in hand to determine it is a forgery.

Lies from the Party to civer up the truts are way past tolerable.

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glassman
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sorry timber, that article is unsigned and undated.. i consider it to be less than rumor if no-one is willing to take credit for writing it...

go to the presidents report on intel failures?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/congress/2004_rpt/iraq-wmd-intell_toc.htm
you will find that the CIA DID know it was bad intel, and the only real questions left to be answered are how far the fact that it was bad intel was passed up the chain of command to the white house...

that is still not clear.... it may be that Bush didn't know,
but
Cheney himself oredered the CIA to look into Niger, and Wilson was a good choice since he had experience in the region.... Wilson reported back that it was bad intel... so cheney SHOULD have gotten his report back well before the state of the union address....

this juggling of the dates to "discredit" wilson is lame, and MANY in the state dept openly challenged the bad intel..not just wilson..there were muliple reports that were ignored..wilson's wife was picked out as a warning to career intel people..that's why this won't go away...they will win this little battle, but they will take their time to limit the damage to the nation as a whole and that's more than anyone can say about bush/cheny/rove/libby

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timberman
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Wouldn't really matter glass. I didn't expect it to be accepted by the choir. I do find out of all of the rhetoric, the truth is more than likely somewhere in the middle. This story is older but states the same facts.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39834-2004Jul9.html

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bdgee
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The facts simply do not support a claim that Wilson's report was anything but 100% valid.

We have learned a lot since those attacks on him were made.

The Administration lied and attacked Wilson for providing evidence that they did.

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timberman
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http://intelligence.senate.gov/iraqreport2.pdf
Pages 36 thru 45.

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glassman
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as i read the pages you recomend? i see they also confirm that several other people confirmed there were no yellow-cake sales to Iraq...

much of that is also in the presidents own report..

however there is much more in the presidents own report that explains why the Sate Dept KNEW the contracts were forgeries without having to send anybody to niger.... people who looked at them said they were such bad forgeries anybody that had ever seen official documents like these would recognise them as bogus instantly... this is one of the reasons so many in the State Dept were so outraged....

note the CIA graded Wilson's information "good" but provided no NEW substantial info, and corroborated prior info...

in other words? there was no reliable evidence of a uranium purchase, and no reason to say that Iraq was within a few months of being able to build a nuke...

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timberman
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Yea the french were in control of the uranium and they would never let anyone buy any. lol Forget all those french arms we found in Iraq. The fact is this guy has been going from one news show to the next acting like he is some kind of hero, when he's having trouble keeping his own story straight.
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glassman
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040908-123000-1796r_page2.htm

your anti-europe rhetoric is stale...


partially because everybody is guilty of trading in illicit arms around the globe....

French connection armed Saddam
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
September 8, 2004 .....


Backing down
Pentagon hard-liners on France, led by Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, carried the day early in the war, but accommodationists within the upper councils of the Bush administration took control as the conflict went on.
Among those who took a softer position on France was National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, the former Stanford provost who surrounded herself with State Department officials and Foreign Service officers.
Rumsfeld drew a great deal of attention on Jan. 22, 2003 -- and created a backlash within the State Department -- when he let fly a verbal salvo against France and Germany for not siding with the United States, describing them as "old Europe" during a meeting with foreign reporters.
Rumsfeld also criticized French and German political leaders for making policy based not on "their honest conviction as to what their country ought to do" but on opinion polls that reflected ever-shifting public sentiments.
As the accommodationists in the Bush administration gained the upper hand, Rumsfeld and others were ordered to tone down the anti-Europe rhetoric. By late last year, the defense secretary's critics within the Foreign Service were crowing that Rumsfeld had been "tamed."


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bdgee
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I just waatched a TV program about Wilson and the trip to Niger and I need to correct my previous statement I made that Wilson's wife only suggested his name when she was asked to recommend a person to send. The actual fact is that she did not do so and had NO PART in his being asked to go. (I heard that said by Chaney and made the mistake of forgetting what he is capable of....MY MISTAKE!)

It seems that as a recent former ambasador to both Iraq and Niger, Wilson was asked by the CIA to participte in a meeting to decide how to respond to Chaney's request to find information supporting a claim that Iraq had solicited uranium from Niger. Wilson's wife was not involved a all, either before, after, or during that meeting. In that meeting it was decided to send someone to Niger to investigate.....CIA participants of that meeting asked Wilson to go.

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glassman
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the CIA itself demanded the current investigation ...

ashcroft recused himself because he saw it was heading right back to the white house...that's one of the reasons why the investigation "took so long" they had to start over when Fitzgerald picked it up...

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timberman
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Its not anti-europe glass. Its fact. Your link backs it up. My point was that Wilson asked various officals about the uranium. They answered that France was in charge of the stuff and that they would never sell it to Iraq. Of course they said they would never have anything to do with it either. Yea right. France sure didn't have a problem with selling Iraq anything else. As for Wilson, he seems to have a bit of trouble telling the truth also. Just thought the whole story should be told. Its not all one sided. Don't just ack like one side is the only ones possibly lying here.
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bdgee
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Timber....you keep saying Wilson lied and that isn't supported except with stuff dirtectly from the White House war mongers. All those "examples" of lies from Wilson have been shown to be false and that they came from the White House. If they have been proved false, who does that make liars?
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timberman
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
Timber....you keep saying Wilson lied and that isn't supported except with stuff dirtectly from the White House war mongers. All those "examples" of lies from Wilson have been shown to be false and that they came from the White House. If they have been proved false, who does that make liars?

Actually its from the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intellegence compromised of 8 Republicans and 7 Democrates. The full report can be found there.
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