quote:Originally posted by keithsan: figured delay would subpeona earle. info about non convicting grand juries is hard to find.
interesting:graqnd juries are secret by nature and there have been a few here Earle will use that as a defense. can't discuss it...
heres the petition for disclosure of grand jury preceedings. I hope this comes out, will be very interesting. And should immediately show if Earle is using the law or Just a good law abiding man.
besides the repub that earle did this to before, he did this to a dem that was a political foe also. I'll pull the name up when i get a sec.
just quoting myself, what is written next is probably horse**** so please don't argue it with me. I'm posting it to get the names of the dem out with just a smatering of Earle posts and their respective papers, with dates, before delay indictment of more importance obviously.
·"The Travis County, Texas, prosecutor investigating Mr. DeLay has a history of using his office for partisan ends."(Congressional prerogative, The Washington Times, November 19, 2004)
·Earle has demonstrated a past zeal for indicting conservative figures and even liberals with whom he has personal or professional disagreements. (Target: DeLay, National Review, April 11, 2005)
Earle's partisan prosecutions - which have frequently failed - are designed for political harm, not legal harm. Earle is the same partisan prosecutor who politically indicted and failed to convict:
Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison Conservative Democrat Bob Bullock (when he was Comptroller - later he was Lt. Governor) Democrat Attorney General Jim Mattox
Ronnie Earle's three year political vendetta against Rep. DeLay has been marked by:
Illegal grand jury leaks, A fundraising speech by Earle for the Texas Democrat party that inappropriately focused on the investigation, Misuse of his office for partisan purposes, and Extortion of money for Earle's pet projects from corporations in exchange for dismissing indictments he brought against them.
Ronnie Earle has been frequently criticized for his methods:
The Dallas Morning News criticized Earle in the Hutchison case:
"the impression of partisan unfairness has certainly been reinforced by the leaks and public comment about Hutchison's case from the District Attorney's office throughout the summer. That the Grand Jury investigation has been conducted with so much fanfare such as the tip-offs to the new media when key records were seized from the former treasurer's office has added a darker tone to the cloudy proceedings." (Hutchison Probe; Fair and Speedy trial is essential, The Dallas Morning News, September 28, 1993)
The Houston Chronicle called into question Earle's impartiality and judgment:
"The fact that Earle refuses to recognize his blunder and would do it again calls into question whether he has the necessary impartiality and judgment to conduct the investigation that to a great extent will determine whether Texas election campaigns will be financed and perhaps determined by corporations or by individuals."
(Self-inflicted wound; District attorney's poor judgment in speaking at a Democratic fund-raiser provides an unintended boost for DeLay's defenders., The Houston Chronicle, May 20, 2005)
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
that all sounds like typical mud-slinging to me...
the question about quashing it would be a simple answer: if BOTH grand juries heard the exact same evicence then Earle is prolly guilty of misconduct dontcha think????
new evidence would require a new grand jury????
somebody inside the oragnisation/pac cuts a deal for immunity? and delay hangs? just guessing, but considring it is DELAY? i doubt Earle would go in with an empty clip...... delay has clout.... or should i say HAD?????
i haven't seen the evidence, but it sure sounds like they were taking funds straight thru the PAC to the candidates...
remeber what Hillary said? it's a VAST right-wing conspiracy....blah blah blah.... the song remains the same only the musicians have changed.....
ain't America Great!!!!!!
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
hopefully the open up the minutes frome earle's grand juries including the ones that said no.
haven't seen the evidence, thats the point here, yes it "sounds" like something is wrong but is there. I'm looking for the evidence myself.
A lot of the crap I posted was mudslinging and from conservative sites. but earle did go after political foes and lost in the past at times losing extremely quickly.
this is way more interesting than that purjory case your all jacked up on.
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
the perjUry case? you mean the one where Rove or Libby or somebody lied to cover up the fact that that SOMEBODY broke the "i can neither confirm nor nor deny" national security laws? my guess is either Libby or Rove will have to fall on their sword to cover for whichever of their bosses ordered the outing of not just one agent but probably a whole string of covert operatives in deep cover around the world, in order to convince the intel community to go along with the bigger lie or they will be job hunting, or even worse?
did you hear about the alqaeda letter released today? from the #2 man to zarquawi? the one begging for money? LOL
there was something deeply troubling in there. it said that Iran is holding about a hundred alqaeda operative in their jails... now that is interesting isn't it???? i thought Iran was supporting terrorism??? makes you wonder who the heck we are really fighting doesn't it?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I dont' think the laws were actually broken or it wouldn't have taken 4 grand juries for Rove to squirm. My guess for now is perjury but rumor has it (recent as of couple hours) could be big news released shortly.
LOL trusting al queda more than bush. puts you in a quandry doesnt it.
you doubt Iran is supporting terrorism? we could bomb them and find out. I will make the assumption that Iran while trying to get the nuke police off their backs will say almost anything. Or have the right people say it for them...
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
4 grand juries? just to make sure you have everything right and don't make a mistake, when the fate of the US govt is on the line? take 10 if thats waht he needs, i don't want any mistakes here, and neither does anybody else...
I Can Neither Confirm nor Deny: that IS the law..... no joke...
no, i don't trust one word of that letter, but Bush seems to be quoting from it.... personally i think it's a joke,
and,
no i don't doubt Iran is supporting terrorism at all..
BUT?
ask yourself this: Why is zarquawi bombing so many Shiite Muslims? Iran is what 90% plus Shia? so alqueda and Iran aren't zackly on good terms...
let's face it: people just aren't very nice to each other are they
we stuck our azzes right into the middle of muslim tribal warfare... and winning this in th e long run won't be as easy as Nam was....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
if perjury was committed? i would thnk you would have to re-question different people several times to sort out the truth....so that makes sense
Rovey was quoted as saying Plame is fair game...
if she was? then why did they have to lie? lies usually cover up some worse fact....
this will drag out for another 6 months i bet... the dems need it to impact the next elections...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Arrest warrant issued for DeLay A routine step before court appearance
AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- A Texas court issued a warrant Wednesday for former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay to appear for booking, where he is likely to face the fingerprinting and photo mug shot he had hoped to avoid.
Bail was initially set at $10,000 as a routine step before his first court appearance on conspiracy and money laundering charges. Travis County court officials said DeLay was ordered to appear at the Fort Bend County jail for booking.
The warrant was "a matter of routine and bond will be posted," DeLay attorney Dick DeGuerin said.
The lawyer declined to say when DeLay would surrender to authorities but said the lawmaker would make his first court appearance Friday morning.
The charges against the Texas Republican stem from allegations that a DeLay-founded Texas political committee funneled corporate money into state GOP legislative races through the National Republican Party. Texas law prohibits use of corporate money to elect state candidates.
DeLay is charged with conspiracy to violate state election laws and money laundering, felony counts that triggered House Republican rules that forced him to step aside as majority leader.
Two separate indictments charge that DeLay and two political associates had the money distributed to state legislative candidates in a roundabout way -- sending it from the political action committee in Texas to the Republican National Committee in Washington and finally back to candidates' campaigns.
DeLay has denied wrongdoing.
The effort had major political consequences, first by helping Republicans take control of the Texas Legislature in the 2002 elections. The Legislature then redrew congressional boundaries according to a DeLay-inspired plan, took command of the state's U.S. House delegation and helped the GOP retain its U.S. House majority.
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
The Dallas Morning News is connnected to the Republican National Committee by a never severed umbilical cord. It is the model after which the New York Post was designed.
Using the Dallas Morning News as a reliable or unbiased souce is about as honest as invading a tiny third world country with not quite second world war technology, claiming a need to do so because the third world country "has storehouses of WMD and programs to develop more", then, when it is proved you knew all along they had no WMDs or WMD programs, mounting a silver stallion and waving a white Stetson and hollering "Hi Ho, Silver. We did it to free the people."
Yeah suuuuuuuuuurre you did.......
[ October 19, 2005, 17:32: Message edited by: bdgee ]
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
what was the GOP prez campaign slogan? "flip-flop" ????? Delay fights back against indictment (October 16, 2005) -- Embattled U.S. Rep. Tom Delay, R-Texas, is pleading his case to supporters via his Web site as he awaits trial on a money laundering charge. Delay ... > full story
White House stands behind indicted DeLay (September 29, 2005) -- The White House is standing behind Rep. Tom DeLay, R-Texas, who was indicted for violating Texas campaign finance law. White House spokesman Scott ... > full story
Indicted DeLay denies wrongdoing (September 28, 2005) -- Rep. Tom DeLay, R-Texas, characterized an indictment against him in Texas as purely political and denied any wrongdoing in the campaign-finance ... > full story
He said he has come under attack because he's been a strong advocate of conservative causes, the Houston Chronicle reported Friday.
This is the second letter DeLay has sent to supporters since he was indicted on election law violations last month. DeLay has repeatedly said he is a victim of political persecution by District Attorney Ronnie Earle, a Democrat.
"Because of their decade of defeat, Democrats have now dropped to the least common denominator -- the politics of personal destruction," DeLay said, using the same defense mounted by former President Clinton during his impeachment.
posted
i think the slogan was "just win baby" and they did resoundingly.
delay still waiting for news.Boring.
scooter is interesting. charges look similar to clintons. what comes around goes around.
Been busy. so not well read into intricate details.on this one, I've just haven't grabbed the fevor of the media or glass on this one, maybe i'm wrong but i still think it'll be a waste of time perjury argument.
If it is something big, that'll be fun.
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
i think there will be more indictments after discovery...
Libby will porabably try to take all of the blame, but i BET that Fitgerald had all of those extra grand jury interviews to "lock down" the stories.... i doubt that tehre is much wriggle room left
rove is breathing easier right now (maybe) but, the recods do indicate that he forgot the "i can neither confirm nor deny" issue...
this prosecutor( fitzpatrick) is going very carefully, and for good reason... he is truly a david up against an army of goliaths..... interesting is the proper term... next they'll be claiming he's a democrat activist too...
delay? i love the way he's claiming all of these judges are incompetent... the whole judicial system is evil according to him... remember the US supreme court had to smack him for the FLA girl in the vegetative state.... i for one am very disturbed about how many people think the politcians are so good and the judges are so evil.. there are no honest politicians above the small-town hall level In My Opinion.... they get weeded out early...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
on the judge, delay has a complaint, (he is also pushing it to far) but donating to moveon.org or whatever that group is, then being in charge of delays case could be argued fairly as bias.
the opposite argument will be judge shopping, nothing new.
as far as libby's case, currently so media hyped of ties to the white house, i can't get a good read. nor have i put the time in. on the surface it looks as what I said earlier. Lots of could be's though here this one could be very fun if they can implicate cheney et al.
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
the only media hype in the libby case has been the speculation over Roves part... having studied rove a little (the guys is a scalpel, no doubt about it, he is the sharpest knife in the drawer, unfortunately? he seems to have the moral principles of a scalpel as well) my guess is he put himself in the media crosshairs KNOWING it was libby/cheney so that when the indictment came out? everybody could say wow that's fantastic, rove didn't get hit...
i'm not saying that is what happened, but i think rove is capable of just such a plan...
in the end? there are people with VERY high intellect and integrity of the same measure in the intel community... they will make sure the truth comes out, and they will conrtol how and when it does..
i expect Tennet will eventually drop the bomb on Bush.... he fell on his sword for bush, and it appears bush didn't honor his commitment to tenet..
i hope Tennet can wait til after bush leaves office...
bush and comapny were too busy with planning big spending packages on missile systems to be bothered with fleas like osama...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
"only", you haven't heard speculation on cheney c'mon G. I hear it every 15 mins on all channels."Will it be Rove, Will it be cheney", nope just scooter on some lying charges (more charges than i predicted though)
2 years they've been hunting for this "leak' and we now have a lying charge on libby. again, i think its a waste of time. Fry libby. 2 years is an insane waste of money and time, he should be arrested for not finding the leak.
your later paragraphs are fantasy.
finally a decent judge nominee, not my favorite, but a solid foundation.
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
you told me this was fantasy a year ago, just before the election, when i told you there was going to be some bad stuff coming outa this...
you of all people know fitz put the part of the case out that is a slam dunk first...he can't make a single mistake.... there are more to follow, UNLESS Libby can take all the blame, which he didn't YET,because they haven't charged anybody with the release of classified data...and that isn't a question of whther it was legal it is only a question of proving a few technical details... somebody DID do it or we wouldn't know about it...
roves name didn't really come up as a source until a few months ago...my recollection is that it was attributed to Cheney almost from day one....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
i said a year ago FANTASY and so far still is. 2 years he's got nothing, its not like he worked on other cases, this is what he did for 2 years.
i thought rove would get the same ole lying charge. he didn't, from what i hear he went and talked with fitz, said hey i screwed up that one conversation, it wasnt intentional and I've been honest all along don't bring me through the gutter and ruin my political career on some martha stewart charge....(what i hear at least, could be hogwash)
if thats true, fitz remains a good man in my book its easy to get off taarget when you only focus on one thing for years.
libby was caught lying a bunch of times, don't ask me how, you bring notes of what you said last time and he still screwed up. This may be all we get and thats a sad waste of time and money.
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
no doubt rove used a word or two that have two meanings and wriggeld out... so far... there is apparently a law that allows a person to change their testimony to a grand jury before it is disbanded that allows the prosecutor some leeway in filing charges... we all know they have all lied.... proving it in court isn't the same as knowin git tho... obviously some people are happy to be lied to...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Yes, when we are playing in the game of "My Party" rather than "My Country", getting away with lying is fine if it puts the Party's interest first.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
this is supposed to be about a leak, not 15 grand jury interviews and some mis statements or lies. It was silly when it happened to clinton, its silly know. these special prosecutors are a joke. not him personally, but the job and role.
again, if all that comes is libby's lies, its a pathetic waste of my money.
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Fitzgerald is a puppet like the 9/11 commission and all the other jokers... Bush says he will personally investigate what happened in katrina, NO SHEET.
If you ever get arrested say, don't worry, I'll investigate. That's basically what he's saying.
I doubt anyone else will be indicted and if they do the bush spin machine will be ready to chage subjects just as fast.
No one seemed to think the scripted play bush and the troops put on was a big deal a few weeks ago...
Posts: 562 | From: NY | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
What happened to Clinton wasn't silly. It was a treasonous effort to destroy the chance of the country to function. It is not illegal to make a big profit buying and selling stock options. There was no crime to investigate so they "created" one out of a private sexual affair, that any proper person would have had enough pride and taste not to nose into. Clinton did not leak any classified information to the chick. Someone should have been charged with a crime for making false charges to law enforcement officials. However,
WAR IS NOT A PRIVATE AFFAIR!
and Wilson was making public one of the lies they used to taqke us to war.
Libby fed false information to the grand jury to keep them from finding out exactly who was guilty of the crime of leaking the identity of a US secret agent. That may be worse then the crime itself and charging him is not silly.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: if it's only libby's lies? then why did he lie?
that may be all they prove, but we have found out that Plames cover was blown, and it wasn't "common washington gossip"
Don't know why libby lied, why did clinton, martha stewart, he should do time for it like stewart did and clinton didn't, seems there was a bunch of lies. Remember he lied in the second meeting about what he said in the first and so on....
We knew the cover was blown thats why the "special prosecutor". Just sad that they don't have an answer yet or no proof. Remember prosecutor is trying to prove that she was outed on purpose, that this was planned or a conspiracy. At that point its a crime. If pres. bush lets it slip at a cocktail party, not a crime.
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
bgee, i'm not getting into politics, it clouds your judgement, fact is all 3 lied to the grand jury. whether or not there should've been a grand jury is a different argument.
you can't say this grand jury is stupid i can lie to them.
personally, special prosecutors are the dumbest idea. You take a hard working prosecutor in this case fitzgeral, by all accounts a great prosecutor, he spends 2 years investigating this. Do you think he just wants to say I found no proof and quit. The way these are done lead to a lot of crap. These issues (especially political ones) can be dealt with like any other crime.
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Lying to cover up breaking the law on a virtual treason charge is NOT trivial and needs to be severely punished, with or without a special prosecutor.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
the reason for the lie is always speculation. A lie to a grand jury is a lie to a grand jury and should be prosecuted with or without special prosecutors. Agreed on the punish part. Libby should be punished for his lies! I don't care why he made them i won't pretend to be in his head, maybe he felt they were trivial, who cares. burn him.
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
looks like the curtain is coming down on the Hammer
remember the russki connection is unconfirmed SO FAR:
The DeLay-Abramoff Money Trail Nonprofit Group Linked to Lawmaker Was Funded Mostly by Clients of Lobbyist
By R. Jeffrey Smith Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, December 31, 2005; A01
The U.S. Family Network, a public advocacy group that operated in the 1990s with close ties to Rep. Tom DeLay and claimed to be a nationwide grass-roots organization, was funded almost entirely by corporations linked to embattled lobbyist Jack Abramoff, according to tax records and former associates of the group.
During its five-year existence, the U.S. Family Network raised $2.5 million but kept its donor list secret. The list, obtained by The Washington Post, shows that $1 million of its revenue came in a single 1998 check from a now-defunct London law firm whose former partners would not identify the money's origins.
Two former associates of Edwin A. Buckham, the congressman's former chief of staff and the organizer of the U.S. Family Network, said Buckham told them the funds came from Russian oil and gas executives. Abramoff had been working closely with two such Russian energy executives on their Washington agenda, and the lobbyist and Buckham had helped organize a 1997 Moscow visit by DeLay (R-Tex.).
The former president of the U.S. Family Network said Buckham told him that Russians contributed $1 million to the group in 1998 specifically to influence DeLay's vote on legislation the International Monetary Fund needed to finance a bailout of the collapsing Russian economy. ....In addition to the million-dollar payment involving the London law firm, for example, half a million dollars was donated to the U.S. Family Network by the owners of textile companies in the Mariana Islands in the Pacific, according to the tax records. The textile owners -- with Abramoff's help -- solicited and received DeLay's public commitment to block legislation that would boost their labor costs, according to Abramoff associates, one of the owners and a DeLay speech in 1997.
A quarter of a million dollars was donated over two years by the Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians, Abramoff's largest lobbying client, which counted DeLay as an ally in fighting legislation allowing the taxation of its gambling revenue.
The records, other documents and interviews call into question the very purpose of the U.S. Family Network, which functioned mostly by collecting funds from domestic and foreign businesses whose interests coincided with DeLay's activities while he was serving as House majority whip from 1995 to 2002, and as majority leader from 2002 until the end of September.
After the group was formed in 1996, its director told the Internal Revenue Service that its goal was to advocate policies favorable for "economic growth and prosperity, social improvement, moral fitness, and the general well-being of the United States." DeLay, in a 1999 fundraising letter, called the group "a powerful nationwide organization dedicated to restoring our government to citizen control" by mobilizing grass-roots citizen support.
"conservative values" yeah, baybay....
"an ally in fighting legislation allowing the taxation of its gambling revenue."
posted
These threads on the non stock talk sections sound just like Air America Radio. And all of you sound like Al Gore, Al Frankin and Barbara Boxer when I read your comments. It's DISGUSTING! HA HA HA
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