posted
Americans who think we "did a good thing" in trying to bring democracy to Iraq should really read that article...it covers the bases pretty well on the sheer stupidity of thinking we have any business trying to "give" people freedom...
pay special attention to the parts that mention Iran....
the mideast cultures demand tyrannical rulers...our culture rejects them... their culture is a couple thousand years older than ours is too...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
Hitler had a loyal following as well. Naturally the croud that benefitted from his rule would like him. They were the ones murdering and robbing the rest of the country.
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the point here is that Iraqi's won't be free until they free themselves.. we can't "give" it to them....
i can't think of a successful group of people that were ever "given" their freedom...have i missed one?
Japan lost a war, but they had the initiative to build an empire and start the war anyway so i don't count them...
hitler wanted to take over europe, i don't see any comparison to sadam and hitler...
do you know how many people sadam murdered in concentration camps?? not many, he was involved in tribal warfare..... not the same...
but if you look all over the Muslim world? you will find tribal warfare... i say? let 'em fight and don't waste US blood on it.. that WAS our policy 'till 911...and i think osambeenalivetoolong EXPECTED US to become more involved in their stupid tribal fighting...and now? we are....
we were doing OK in Iraq until abu-graib weren't we?? after the abu-graib pictures? the insurgency started...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
Actually glass, when I arrived in Iraq in April of 04, it was one of the hottest months ever. The insurgency was alive and well. Actually the number of attacks didn't increase because of abu gharaib, the frequency of their reporting did. Part of my daily routine was reviewing the daily intelligence summary. I never noticed a marked increase in attacks or incidents after abu gharaib. In fact, the few months after the whole abu gharaib thing it actually got pretty quiet, we were kind of forced to go look for fights. Al Sadr's Mahdi Army actually stood down and went back to Sadr city after abu gharaib. It may be that these guys may be part of the insurgency, but their not the ones blowing themselves up. The Iraqi's are too pragmatic, and from what I saw, definitely not inclined to blow themslves up for anyone or anything. Now the Syrians and Iranians, they'd do it in a heartbeat. Direct fire engagements have been replaced by car bombings and mortar attacks. These get press. It was really funny to me when I got home, everyone thought it was so horrible over there. I gotta say the media in this country is awesome. It was not nearly as bad as anyone here thinks it is. Fallujah, yeah, Fallujah was and still is hotter than hell, the border near Syria, yeah, it's gonna be hot too. Baghdad, including the Green Zone, and some of the MSR's around it yeah, they're warm too. But overall, it was nothing like what I saw on TV when I got home. Actually most of what I hear now I chalk up to BS. Yeah, it's happening, but not as bad as the media here would want you to believe. And abu Gharaib, blown waaaaaay out of proportion, and didn't cause anything that wasn't gonna happen already. All it caused me to do was make sure my guys weren't taking pictures at the wrone time. LOL
-------------------- If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all.
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posted
hmmm.. american casualties by month, as reported by the pentagon is where i got the figures that show an increase in the insurgency... i posted a chart showing the sharp increase in US casualties after abu graib a while back.
maybe the pentaogn is lying?
i am well aware that the media plays head games too...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
the number of casualties could be tied to a shift in tactics and the assault on Fallujah and other places after Abu Gharaib. I know my TTP's changed about 5 months in.
-------------------- If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all.
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the fatality chart is clear... April 04 was a huge spike in deaths and the numbers never dropped back down... numbers of wounded went up too.. abu graib "the story" was also an american made thing.... it wasn't a story produced by al-jazeera or iraqi TV.. so you tell me? if things got worse after? who made it that way...
abu graib was just another war thing..i don't have any problems witht he soldiers, just the policies that bred it...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Thousands out of millions... hmmn... ok a tenth of one percent of the population wants something... If you are trying to prove you are a moron... you are succeeding. All you damned democrats whine about democracy... but when it serves your communist agenda you show your true colors and proclaim that only a tenth of a percent of the population should be listened to.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt
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posted
LOL.. yeah we had it pretty easy in our founding days compared to what the Iraqis are going through... On a variety of fronts. What we are asking them to accomplish is monumental. I still think they are going to pull it off in the long run. Forget 24/7 news.. propaganda... rumors... political agendas... The freedom of fifty million people is at stake. Somehow I do believe freedom is going to win this one.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt
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posted
Actually both were not elected but came to power by shoddy deals and schemes. Saddam was only elected in his own election show. Each killed people that were a threat to there power. Killed there own people and made war on there neighbors. But my point here is that the inner circle of people that enjoyed that power (Sunni Arabs) are the ones protesting. They had it good compaired to the rest of the country. As long as they stayed on his good side if there is such a thing.
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On the good side of things just think if they pull this off. Having a constitution is the first but painfull step. But a good start in the right direction. Who knows how it will end. We can only hope for the best.
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the fatality chart is clear... April 04 was a huge spike in deaths and the numbers never dropped back down... numbers of wounded went up too.. abu graib "the story" was also an american made thing.... it wasn't a story produced by al-jazeera or iraqi TV.. so you tell me? if things got worse after? who made it that way...
abu graib was just another war thing..i don't have any problems witht he soldiers, just the policies that bred it...
No worries glass, totally agree. I just don't think abu gharaib was that big of a factor leading to the insurgency. I think in April they finally got their organization set up and running. From there it was basically game on. I have to admit, and maybe I'm twisted for thinking this way, but April was fun. Our first night in Baghdad we took a fair amount of rockets and mortars pretty close to the bldg we took over and were living in. You could hear the rockets fly over and look out the window and see 'em impact. It was totally surreal. Watched a toyota landcruiser just get obliterated.
-------------------- If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: LOL DQR they are the sunni's what'd you expect?
it still comes down to shi'ites (read IRAN) versus sunni versus Kurd... and yo think WE have political problems here? shheeesh
Glass, just wait til the Kurds go for independence then it ought to get really interesting. Had a Kurdish terp (interpreter) tell me that "there will be Kurdistan again" When I mentioned the Iraqi's, Iranian's, Turk's and Syrians opposing a move like that he said they would fight to the last man.
-------------------- If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all.
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posted
yeah, and you know what? i'm really rooting for the Kurds.. i like the food..'cept humus... i like taters a lot better...
i was pi$$ed off when i found out we dumped them after the gulf war.. they coulda taken out sadam with a little help (that we promised them) and then we anbandoned them and sadam did some really bad things to them...
the Turks called that shot tho (or so i hear) Turkey is really afraid of them, and i think the Kurds got the kinda testicular fortitude i admire... they don't have much PROVEN oil tho..they may have some, but it's not on the books yet..
as far as the thrill of battle?
i've been an adrenalin junkie since i was 10... i've done alot of things i'm not really proud of, but i'd do 'em again if i wasn't a daddy..
war is hell... go do the job and quit the whining, Bush is juat a cheerleader with a big mythology built up around him , that's why i get pi$$ed at him... i don't expect much better from other politicians either.. IMO? they become politicians because they have something wrong with 'em from the get-go....
and anybody who wants the job probly isn't bright enought to do the job correctly....
anyway, somebody is makin' a ton o'money here, and it ain't me so i'm gonna keep beetchin'...
as far as blindly following a leader? i got my honorable 20 years or so ago..i don't have to do THAT anymore, and i AM supporting the troops by trying make people think about what's really going on.... we are there for a long time yet, Bush did impregnate the pooch IMO, but the puppies still have to be taken care of....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by HILANDER: And abu Gharaib, blown waaaaaay out of proportion, and didn't cause anything that wasn't gonna happen already. All it caused me to do was make sure my guys weren't taking pictures at the wrone time. LOL
Thousands out of millions... hmmn... ok a tenth of one percent of the population wants something... If you are trying to prove you are a moron... you are succeeding. All you damned democrats whine about democracy... but when it serves your communist agenda you show your true colors and proclaim that only a tenth of a percent of the population should be listened to.
posted
A statement that there are are a thousand unnecessary light bulbs wasting electricity every night in the US does not say that there are not millions of energy wasting light bulbs each night in the US!
Provided I am at least 3 years old: I am 3 years old is an honest and correct statement. I am 4 years old is an honest and correct statement. I am 5 years old is an honest and correct statement. And so on, until the number of years old I claim to be exceeds the number of years old I am.
In fact, there are MILLIONS of Iraies that would eagerly trade and take Saddam back in a flash, with all his policies and problems, if that would rid them of dubya's crap.
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: A statement that there are are a thousand unnecessary light bulbs wasting electricity every night in the US does not say that there are not millions of energy wasting light bulbs each night in the US!
Provided I am at least 3 years old: I am 3 years old is an honest and correct statement. I am 4 years old is an honest and correct statement. I am 5 years old is an honest and correct statement. And so on, until the number of years old I claim to be exceeds the number of years old I am.
In fact, there are MILLIONS of Iraies that would eagerly trade and take Saddam back in a flash, with all his policies and problems, if that would rid them of dubya's crap.
Any facts to back this up little bird? If you think Saddamm is so great then why didn't you live there... obviously it was better than where you live now.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt
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There are volums of facts that you refuse to consider while getting all you "news" from "Fat Rush the Doper" and the Party line.
I just read your name calling insulting rant against a poor mother that lost a son. What brings you to demean her with name calling?
Where are any facts that there aren't millions or that any considerable percentage of Iraqies want us there? Don't they come from the same sources as your claims of WMDs and dozens of Iraqi Government sancioned and financed terrorist training camps pre-invasion? Remember, your sources of "facts" about Iraq have a history of turning out to be pure lies. No one in Iraq ever requested that we save them!
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DTW: If the war is so just, why don't you join the fight? Join up or shut up, I say.
quote:Originally posted by DeportTheWitless: Any facts to back this up little bird? If you think Saddamm is so great then why didn't you live there... obviously it was better than where you live now.
posted
Personally, I can't see the difference,(besides the physically obvious), between concentration camps, and chemical bombings! Still killing his own people, and others! Still evil!
-------------------- As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
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quote:Originally posted by Kate: Personally, I can't see the difference,(besides the physically obvious), between concentration camps, and chemical bombings! Still killing his own people, and others! Still evil!
quote:Originally posted by Kate: Personally, I can't see the difference,(besides the physically obvious), between concentration camps, and chemical bombings! Still killing his own people, and others! Still evil!
yes it's sad isn't it? just like they are doing in the Sudan RIGHT NOW...
the noe-cons picked this war for their pockets not to save anybody....
this is no humanitarian effort this is about oil and always has been...
i don't have a problem with effectrively securing resources, but this thing has been screwed up over and over, OR the plan was to push oil prices to this level all along...either way? it's a mess, and there's only on commander in cheif...nobody else to blame.... we don't have the resources to do everything that needs to be done with ammunition Kate... and i'm persaonally pretty sure Jesus would disaprove...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
Amen glass. Hate to say it, but that was my perception all along. But, I am a soldier and do what I am told to. On a side note, doe anyone know if the Louisiana National guard is still in Iraq? I know I talked to some of the Louisiana boys when I was there but that was almost a year ago.
-------------------- If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all.
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the worst part is? i bet you have heard about sadam attacking his own people, but you don't know ANY of the details or the political maneuvers that led to it...
like Bush no.1 promising to support uprisings after the gulf war and thnen abandoning the REBELS to failure... during those same timeframes? we had Waco, and we had Ruby Ridge... not exactly on the same scale or level, but still a message that govt's are able to do as they please wahn they please...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by Kate: Personally, I can't see the difference,(besides the physically obvious), between concentration camps, and chemical bombings! Still killing his own people, and others! Still evil!
yes it's sad isn't it? just like they are doing in the Sudan RIGHT NOW...
the noe-cons picked this war for their pockets not to save anybody....
this is no humanitarian effort this is about oil and always has been...
i don't have a problem with effectrively securing resources, but this thing has been screwed up over and over, OR the plan was to push oil prices to this level all along...either way? it's a mess, and there's only on commander in cheif...nobody else to blame.... we don't have the resources to do everything that needs to be done with ammunition Kate... and i'm persaonally pretty sure Jesus would disaprove...
posted
Many of Louisiana's national guard forces are now in Iraq but, the mayor said on CNN, there are 1,500 troops ready to be deployed and a few thousand that could be tapped quickly. "We are facing a storm that most of us have long feared," Nagin said at the news conference.
posted
admit it Kate, you don't believe Bush can do anything bad cuz they told you that at church, and Karl Rove is the one who set that act up... heck, they offered "faith based" money to the churches and even got campaign$$$ mailing lists from all the Televangelists....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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