posted
From the red rover red rover thread, Glassman posted this newspaper quote, and I have added my opinion:
Glassman:
But the Arizona Republican also said reports of controversial interrogation techniques and allegations of abuse could endanger American POWs in a future conflict.
Art:
Yes, if we put any pressure on captured terrorists to give us info to save lives, the terrorists might torture people to their death (as we found recently), or even behead people on camera.
The Arizona Republican's views are utter nonsense. The way terrorists operate is not going to change one bit by the way we get intel from captured combatants, since they couldn't become more cruel.
If we can get intel that saves one life of our soldiers, and if it takes the cruel torture and killing of a million captured terrorists to get this intel, then we should do it.
Anyone who disagrees with this is either a terrorist or a terrorist supporter. Such people would sacrifice our soldier's life in order to assist the terrorists - putting the welfare of the terrorists above our own. There is no escaping this fact no matter how you try to twist it.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Art: The Arizona Republican's views are utter nonsense.... .....Anyone who disagrees with this is either a terrorist or a terrorist supporter.
glassman:
so now you are saying McCain is a traitor too...
Art... you are beginning to re-define the meaning of Army of One.....
Art: Don't quote me out of context. Here is what I said:
The Arizona Republican's views are utter nonsense. The way terrorists operate is not going to change one bit by the way we get intel from captured combatants, since they couldn't become more cruel.
If we can get intel that saves one life of our soldiers, and if it takes the cruel torture and killing of a million captured terrorists to get this intel, then we should do it.
Anyone who disagrees with this is either a terrorist or a terrorist supporter. Such people would sacrifice our soldier's life in order to assist the terrorists - putting the welfare of the terrorists above our own. There is no escaping this fact no matter how you try to twist it.
And yes, McCain and anyone else who would kill one or more of our citizens, as a result of their limiting our opportunity to obtain information from captured enemy, are aiding the enemy to kill our soldiers, citizens, or allies, and this makes them traitors.
For those like yourself that are not aware of it, war is about killing as many of the enemy as you can while suffering as few loses as you can. This means killing a million captured terrorists if it yields intel that saves one of your own - do the math.
Liberals like Durbin, who want us to fight a war with one hand tied behind our back, are traitors since they would help the enemy kill us.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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posted
It is too late to win the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Bush, as commander-in-chief, along with his cronies, Cheney and Rumsfeld, have screwed up so badly, our only viable direction is an exit strategy. There isn't one, currently.
You don't have the slightest clue on how to come up with a better war plan...
All you do is pi$$ and moan...
As a choktaw Indian, what has happened to your ability to wage war[ in thinking terms ] come on babe start thinking like the warrior thats inside of you....
Retreat is no option, in this war, only full on attack, kill um scalp um take no prisoners..
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quote:Originally posted by Dustoff101: So what yor saying is ya agree with me. Later yard work to be done.
LOL Dusty, i've said it before.... i've also said the price will be much higher than Bush has indicated... and i'm pretty angry that we haven't been told that...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Art: The Arizona Republican's views are utter nonsense.... .....Anyone who disagrees with this is either a terrorist or a terrorist supporter.
glassman:
so now you are saying McCain is a traitor too...
Art... you are beginning to re-define the meaning of Army of One.....
Art: Don't quote me out of context. Here is what I said:
The Arizona Republican's views are utter nonsense. The way terrorists operate is not going to change one bit by the way we get intel from captured combatants, since they couldn't become more cruel.
If we can get intel that saves one life of our soldiers, and if it takes the cruel torture and killing of a million captured terrorists to get this intel, then we should do it.
Anyone who disagrees with this is either a terrorist or a terrorist supporter. Such people would sacrifice our soldier's life in order to assist the terrorists - putting the welfare of the terrorists above our own. There is no escaping this fact no matter how you try to twist it.
And yes, McCain and anyone else who would kill one or more of our citizens, as a result of their limiting our opportunity to obtain information from captured enemy, are aiding the enemy to kill our soldiers, citizens, or allies, and this makes them traitors.
For those like yourself that are not aware of it, war is about killing as many of the enemy as you can while suffering as few loses as you can. This means killing a million captured terrorists if it yields intel that saves one of your own - do the math.
Liberals like Durbin, who want us to fight a war with one hand tied behind our back, are traitors since they would help the enemy kill us.
glassman: now you are contradicting yourself....
Art: For those like yourself that are not aware of it, war is about killing as many of the enemy as you can while suffering as few loses as you can.
glasy-eyed bozo:
i don't think you read my posts... i am beginning to think you are an anarchist...
every student of war knows that you have to pay the butcher's bill ....
i didn't quote you out of context...
you are making wild accusations and assumptions about what everybody thinks and says....
Art: This means killing a million captured terrorists if it yields intel that saves one of your own - do the math.
glassman: the math is quite simple we don't have the capital to take and capture even 50,000 enemy combatants at one time...much less a million...
we can bomb that many... but that's not going to give intel... do you know what the TRUE definiton of a helicopter is? 30,000 moving parts all trying to get away from one another..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
glassman: i don't think you read my posts... i am beginning to think you are an anarchist...
Art: Why, on both points?
glassman: every student of war knows that you have to pay the butcher's bill ....
Art: Sure, but you want to kill as many of them while losing as few of your own as possible. Easy to grasp this, really.
glassman: i didn't quote you out of context...
Art: Sure you did - look at the posts above. Easy to see this, really.
glassman: you are making wild accusations and assumptions about what everybody thinks and says....
Art: Not at all. Explain what you are talking about.
Art: This means killing a million captured terrorists if it yields intel that saves one of your own - do the math.
glassman: the math is quite simple we don't have the capital to take and capture even 50,000 enemy combatants at one time...much less a million...
Art: Ok then 49,999 instead of a million. Or 10,000 or 5,000 or whatever. The point is that torturing and killing any amount of captured terrorists or their supporters is justified to save one of our own. Easy to understand, really. If you disagree, tell me how many of our own people should we let die in order to be nice to captured terrorists?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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posted
Art: Ok then 49,999 instead of a million. Or 10,000 or 5,000 or whatever. The point is that torturing and killing any amount of captured terrorists or their supporters is justified to save one of our own. Easy to understand, really. If you disagree, tell me how many of our own people should we let die in order to be nice to captured terrorists?
glassman:
math is a very precise form of communication...you suggested it, not me..... i never suggested we be nice to any terrorists.. once again? you practice propaganda techniques poorly...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Yes - the only reason to treat captured terrorists decently is public relation considerations - world opinion, Islamic opnion, etc.
We are fighting a war without trying to anger people - oxymoronic.
You could say if we severely tortured captives (killing some in the process), to gain intel to save our people's lives, and this worked to actually save lives, then it would be justified. The people who objected to this would not be our true friends - they would be terrorists or terrorist supporters (like Durbin).
Now, if we ease up on the torture because of public relations, we get less intel and this costs us some lives of our own people. Then we have to weigh the public relations value against the loss of life of our people. How many of our people do we kill (by not getting the intel to save their lives) to improve public realtions with liberals who don't want us to use torture?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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Yes - the only reason to treat captured terrorists decently is public relation considerations - world opinion, Islamic opnion, etc.
We are fighting a war without trying to anger people - oxymoronic.
You could say if we severely tortured captives (killing some in the process), to gain intel to save our people's lives, and this worked to actually save lives, then it would be justified. The people who objected to this would not be our true friends - they would be terrorists or terrorist supporters (like Durbin).
Now, if we ease up on the torture because of public relations, we get less intel and this costs us some lives of our own people. Then we have to weigh the public relations value against the loss of life of our people. How many of our people do we kill (by not getting the intel to save their lives) to improve public realtions with liberals who don't want us to use torture?
i never suggested we be nice to any terrorists anywhere anytime.. once again? you practice propaganda techniques poorly...
WTF are you responding to Art? you keep saying i said things and have opinions i don't have.....
war is hell, you do what you have to do to win....
if i say that winning involves figuring out a way to stop the INCREASE of terrorists ability to recruit? you will find some way to say i am soft on terrorrism.... this is propaganda....
if i don't agree with you and rush? i'm a liberal... LOL.... the world isn't black and white... i never supported durbins a$$inine statements...all i said was he apologised...
i post McCain's statements and you say anyone who disagrees with your statements "is either a terrorist or a terrorist supporter." in your response is some nebulous statement you make that is really meaningless, because it refers to nothing anybody (especially ME) has said in the thread....it might refer to something you heard or read somewhere else, but not here or by me... IMO? you aren't reading the full posts because you missed this part of McCain's statementcould endanger American POWs in a future conflict.
the operative word being FUTURE...sheesh..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
glassman:.....once again? you practice propaganda techniques poorly...
war is hell, you do what you have to do to win....
if i say that winning involves figuring out a way to stop the INCREASE of terrorists ability to recruit? you will find some way to say i am soft on terrorrism....this is propaganda....
Art: So how do we stop the terrorists' ability to recruit other than to kill as many of them as possible? Once we kill enough of the sadistic zealots (which are a small minority) we will defuse their movement.
The key also is for Iraq to fully implement their government. The terrorists know this, which is why they are fighting a desparate, last gasp effort that will fail. They are defeated now in that the beginning of the end has started.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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posted
glassman: i post McCain's statements and you say anyone who disagrees with your statements "is either a terrorist or a terrorist supporter." in your response is some nebulous statement you make that is really meaningless, because it refers to nothing anybody (especially ME) has said in the thread....
Art: Yes, anyone who does anything or says anything, that supports or encourages the terrorists, that eventuates in an increase in the terrorists killing of our citizens, over what would have been otherwise, has acted as a traitor to this country.
Why is this meaningless? What about it do you disagree with?
glassman:...IMO? you aren't reading the full posts because you missed this part of McCain's statement[b]could endanger American POWs in a future conflict....the operative word being FUTURE...sheesh..
Art: I read that and think it is stupid. All of our POWs have been tortured and killed by enemies we have faced in the past. The Japanese death march of our soldiers in WW II, the German slaughter of captured Americans in many instances, the torture and killing of our soldiers by the N. Vietnamese, etc. etc. Our enemies don't conform to moral rules of warfare. We should use every bit of torture possible, even if it kills some captured terrorists, if this will gain us helpful intel comapred to a lesser amount of torture. Will we subject our own to harsher treatment in future conflicts? No, because in the past, when we fought a moral war, our enemies did not.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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posted
in the end? i don't think we'll get a government in Iraq that we like. we have too many cultural differences...
just MY OPINION, i hope i'm wrong... but i have good reasons for my opinion...
one of the things i've been saying all along is that the "insurgency" in Iraq doesn't make strategic sense. by fighting this way? they are actually just increasing the time and numbers we will be killing them. if anything? our analysts made a mistake in thinking the "insurgents" are smarter than they are....but it's dumb to underestimate your enemy, so i am watching for evidence that there is something else going on that isn't apparent yet...the only gains i see being made by the insurgency is HEADLINES for recruitment and stalling tactics for the new Iraq govt. there is no way they will win a fight like this, but then? what war was EVER won with kamikazes? kamikaze is a tactic of the losing side staving off th einevitable...
In afgh. the "insurgents" palyed the safe long-term strategy, they walked in the front door of the weapons collection stations, turned in the AKs and RPG's and walked out the other door "cleansed". physically anyway, they are still alive, and they are still who they were before the war....
the new recruits? i've already suggested many times that we have no choice but to sanction the religious leaders that are preaching the suicide rules...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
Art: Yes, anyone who does anything or says anything, that supports or encourages the terrorists, that eventuates in an increase in the terrorists killing of our citizens, over what would have been otherwise, has acted as a traitor to this country.
glassman: how many terrorists attacks have there been in Iraq?
Bush has publicly admitted to mistkes for saying several things that may or may not have encouraged more terrorist attacks, and acknowledged that they probably DID encourage more terror attacks....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
News kept quiet is our government is already in negotiations with the insurgents.
Bush says we won't negotiate with terrorists yet that is exactly what we are currently doing.
--
Luke Baker
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - U.S. and Iraqi officials said on Sunday they were talking to tribal leaders, clerics and some groups linked to the Sunni Arab insurgency as part of attempts to draw more parties into Iraq's political process.
The officials said the talks, which have been going on for months...
Officials dismissed suggestions the talks were in any way a form of negotiation with insurgents or involved contact with Islamist hard-liners like al Qaeda's Abu Musab al-Zarqawi....
--
"U.S...said...talking to...some groups linked to the Sunni Arab insurgency...Officials dismissed suggestions the talks were in any way a form of negotiation with insurgents...."
Quite the contradiction coming Rumsfeld, who made those remarks.
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posted
glassman: Bush has publicly admitted to mistkes for saying several things that may or may not have encouraged more terrorist attacks, and acknowledged that they probably DID encourage more terror attacks....
Art: What has Bush said, that may or may not have encouraged the terrorists, that in any way compares to:
1.What Newsweek erroneously reported about Gitmo
2. What Durbin said about how we acting at Gitmo like past sadistic killers have acted
3. What Kennedy says repeatedly about how Iraq is another Viet Nam and a quagmire to us
4. What many liberals are saying in demanding a date for USA withdrawal from Iraq
[ June 26, 2005, 16:03: Message edited by: Art ]
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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posted
Purl Gurl: News kept quiet is our government is already in negotiations with the insurgents. Bush says we won't negotiate with terrorists yet that is exactly what we are currently doing.
Art: More liberal lies from you.
We are not negotiating with terrorists. We have said that the Iraqi government is free to talk with the terrorist representatives as they wish.
If we steped in to prohibit anything the new Iraqi governemnt wanted to do, you would say we had a puppet government in Iraq.
If we say they can talk to whoever they wish, you say we are negotiating with terrorists.
No matter what the USA does, the liberal liars will find a way to spin it and blame America first.
Happens all the time - just listen to Howard Dean, and of course, our own Purl Gurl.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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posted
All those people who spoke against war some two years back, Linda Ronstadt, Richard Gere, Mike Farrell and others, are being vindicated.
How very tragic so many had to die to satisfy Bush's political agenda, so very tragic.
What a mess Bush has made of the world and especially our country. We still suffer from Vietnam today, and we will suffer from Iraq thirty years from now.
Bush, Nixon, not a lot of difference except Tricky Dick was not an illiterate.
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this is the best publicly stated outline i have been able to find bama..... personally? i think Bush HIMSELF has been trying to do what he thought/thinks is correct...
politics usually takes odd twists tho....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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