posted
i agree... i really don't believe the people there want our STYLE of freedom.....
America is a very special place, we have little/no history(compared to the Eurasian continent)... this allows US to accept change and even embrace it more readily...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: the interesting thing here is that Newsweek is now apologising for, BUT,
NOT retractingthe statement....
AND, it was quoted from a US govt source and reviewed prior to publication, but not challenged by DOD.....
Newsweek has now retracted.
It was not quoted from a government source. The government source was silent on the story reported - as if he/she didn't know if it were true or not. Newsweek took the silence for affirmation - a big leap that proved to be false.
Newsweek was thinking like many liberals - automatically assuming the worst about the USA, and this thinking was wrong, as usual.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by blueranger: Clerics threaten holy war over alleged Quran desecrations
well maybe thats what we need is just a big massive war with all the muslims... then we could bomb there cities and conduct major war instead of having to go look for terrorist.
We should have used neutron bombs in Afghanistan, to retaliate against al Qaeda, and destroy them in Afghanistan. Usama bin Laden would then be dead along with all al Qaeda there. Civilians killed would deserve to die for supporting/tolerating the Taliban and al Qaeda. The world would have hated us for this, but they hated us before and always will.
Then We say to Saddam, let UN inspectors have unfettered access for inspections or we will destroy Iraq (with neutron bombs). Saddam refuses and we destroy Iraq. Then we go in after fallout dissipates and run the oil fields.
Then we threaten to destroy Syria if they don't stop support of Palestinian terrorism, and threaten to destroy Iran if they also don't stop supporting terrorism and developing nuclear bomb. They comply.
We then say, any furher terrorist attacks will result in the destruction of countries that in any way gave sanctuary or support to these terrorists and fails to find and kill them if they are in that country. Stopping terrorism then becomes the responsibilty of mideast nations.
The world continues to hate us, but they hated us before 9/11 and will hate us as long as we are number 1.
We solve the terrorism problem at little cost to us. How? We fight terrorism with terrorism and we have the superior means to do this with our WMD.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
it would be better for us to be in a major all out war then to be in these constant little schrmishes.
Posts: 1070 | From: louisville,ky,usa | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
The terrorist advantage is to be able to hide among civilians and even use civilians as a sanctuary against being attacked - human shields in various ways.
As long as we allow them this advantage, we are fighting them with our hands tied behind our back - in effect, aiding their efforts to destroy us and thus fighting on their side against ourselves.
We must be willing to kill civilians used by terrorists. We must destroy Ramada with WMD because it contains terrorists - all human life in that city.
Civilians are aiding and abetting terrorists when at least some of them are knowingly allowing them to live among them, and are thus not "innocent" civilians. Since we can'yt distinguish terrorists from civilians, or civilians who allow terrorists to go unreported from those who would report them, we destroy them all, with the terrorists hidden among them.
To the degree that you kill civilians then to that degree are you effective against terrorism. What you have left will be with you and you will have defeated terrorism along with winning the hearts and minds of the remaining civilians.
Guess what? Civilians would quickly learn to report any suspicious people who might be terrorists, and would even help kill those who they knew were terrorists. Once you start, and show eveyone that human shields will be killed along with terrorists, you will need to kill less and less civilians while killing more and more terrorists.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Art, had we spent 1/100the the money on a campaign to educate these people that we arent the enemy? we would be much farther ahead IMO...
the obsession with murder and mayhem is just playing into the terrorists hands...
i have also suggested for a long time that i like the way the Israelis made sure to get "special" cell phones into the hands of enemy clerics that whip up the masses..411-BOOOM...clean neat and precise...
what you are suggesting amounts to genocide and makes us no better than any other genocidal maniac....
we probably are no better...but personally? i am trying to be better....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Glassman: Art, had we spent 1/100the the money on a campaign to educate these people that we arent the enemy? we would be much farther ahead IMO...
Art: We could have spent 200 billion on education, that we are not the enemy, and it wouldn't have done any good. You think Muslim nations will let us in and educate them? You think any muslims would listen to us or care what we have to say? We are the enemy to many of them since we support Israel's right to exist. No amount of education will change this or make these muslims accept Israel. Killing enough of the violent attackers will accomplish this however.
Glassman: the obsession with murder and mayhem is just playing into the terrorists hands...
Art: Trying to educate them and to appease them would be playing into their hands - killing them and wiping out their movement is not playing into their hands.
Glassman: what you are suggesting amounts to genocide and makes us no better than any other genocidal maniac....
Art: Exactly. This levels the playing field, so that we fight them on equal terms instead of with our hands tied behind our backs.
Glassman: we probably are no better...but personally? i am trying to be better....
Art: Better is the one who wins the quickest. Your being better is being a loser and dying quickly. Those who wage war in a moral manner do so only by killing their own people as a price to kill less of the enemy. You don't fight to suffer equal losses on both sides, you fight to kill as many of them as possible while sustaining the fewest losses as possible.
Killing a billion of them and their civilian shields/supporters, and only losing one of your own is barely acceptable (it would be better not to lose the one).
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Two basic types of thinking: rational and emotional.
Burning the USA flag - emotional - feels good but counterproducive or non-productive.
Not killing civilians in the same house as terrorists even though this means the terrorists get away - emotional - feels good but counterproducive or non-productive.
Not severely torturing captured terrorists (even though it would get valuable intel) because tortue is inhumane - emotional - feels good but counterproducive or non-productive. You kill your own men in failing to get the intel that severe torture would provide.
Fighting a moral war even though this means more of your own are killed - emotional - makes you feel moral at the expense of deaths to your own.
Killing as many terrorists as possible while holding your loses to an absolute minimum, even when this involves killing civilians that tolerate or even support them without turning against them - rational.
Bush had it right when he said, "You're either with us or agsinst us." It is a shame Bush didn't strictly stick to this principle - Bush is a liberal dove!
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
The main thing is that rumors start and then they are clarified by one group and by the time it reaches another group they're declaring a holy war. The Quran is respected highly in the Islamic faith as the American flag is a symbol of freedom. Why do people have to burn and flush things down the toilet. It's always a group of reckless people that start the whole mess (radicals in Iraq and the media in the U.S.).
Posts: 151 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
How about radicals in Irag & America with the media behind most of it!! The media can whip up anything thru-out the world including wars. Of course, it helps to have a 15th. century world & faith of the Middle East to whip things up.
Posts: 200 | From: San Bruno, Ca. USA | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
FAITH & INGORANCE rule the anicent world of the Middle East! its not that they want what we have, its their religous believes that blinds them. I certainly wouldn't tie explosives around my child for my faith, would you?
Posts: 200 | From: San Bruno, Ca. USA | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Well, i guess "POLITICAL FAITH & INGORANCE" rule our country oh, i forgot, also "BIG MONEY INTERESTS"!! don't ya think??
Posts: 200 | From: San Bruno, Ca. USA | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Isn't it nice that we have this subject to post on after such a great day of dreaming! kinda takes our mind off the picks that would, could & didn't! how many people had to hold overnite? just asking!
Posts: 200 | From: San Bruno, Ca. USA | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: that's what i've been tryin' to tell all of theses Bush "freedom spreading" supporters... they won't listen to me.....
these people DON'T want what we are selling...
Iraq is more secular than you realize. The fact is, and you can't seem to accept it, most Iraqis want democracy and very much appreciate the USA for helping them. A few terrorists exploiting the religious fanaticism of some remain a minority, and they are being rejected and fought against by most Iraqis.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
the iraqi's that Bush's team counted on for intel and this so-called desire for democracy were ex-patriates that expected to walk in and own the country themselves( along with their US biz partners)..they have been revealed as liars...and the REAL iraqis did NOT accept them as their new leaders....
the stupid part here? we could be leaving iraq NOW if the insurgency hadn't started...and i will agree that MOST iraqi's just want us gone and they don't care why as long as it's soon...
but with an insurgency? we'll be there a long time...now tell me who benefits from that the most?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: the iraqi's that Bush's team counted on for intel and this so-called desire for democracy were ex-patriates that expected to walk in and own the country themselves( along with their US biz partners)..they have been revealed as liars...and the REAL iraqis did NOT accept them as their new leaders....
the stupid part here? we could be leaving iraq NOW if the insurgency hadn't started...and i will agree that MOST iraqi's just want us gone and they don't care why as long as it's soon...
but with an insurgency? we'll be there a long time...now tell me who benefits from that the most?
Most Iraqis want us gone?
Do you really believe this?
If most Iraqis want us gone their new government will capitalize on this politically and thus will ask us to leave, and we will leave.
It won't happen because most Iraqis want us to stay just like most South Koreans want us to stay. Wherever we have a military presence this is the case.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Art:It won't happen because most Iraqis want us to stay just like most South Koreans want us to stay. Wherever we have a military presence this is the case.
glassman: the phillipines? germany? okinawa? gimme a break....
hmmmm....The US military presence has sparked several protests in South Korea, after relations were strained by a number of high-profile incidents involving US troops. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2930997.stm
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Art:It won't happen because most Iraqis want us to stay just like most South Koreans want us to stay. Wherever we have a military presence this is the case.
glassman: the phillipines? germany? okinawa? gimme a break....
hmmmm....The US military presence has sparked several protests in South Korea, after relations were strained by a number of high-profile incidents involving US troops. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2930997.stm
You generalize from a small minority to induce opinions of the majority - thought disorder on your part. The majority sentiment is appreciation for a protective USA military presence in all the places we are in. Sure a minority protests - a feature of democracy. A minority were against Bush's policies here but were outvoted.
You would use the protests of the minority to say it is majority sentiment, when you agree with the minority. Does the term 'liberal bias' have any meaning to you ?
Hmmmmmmm.......
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
each night i listen to shortwave around the world and i always listen to radio korea daily.
if you don't have a shortwave then you can listen at www. public radio fan dot com
korea is a complex issue. the american base is on prime realestate so the koreans want the US to move. Also they had some losses in Iraq and they are protesting this.
south korea, tiawain, and japan are locked in a battle with china...china has threatens to invade tiawain daily. These countries are also under threat by north korea... they do not want the US to leave.
Posts: 1070 | From: louisville,ky,usa | Registered: Oct 2004
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Korea? yes i just posted a news clip from today, but that PR is not really the point, just an example of the daily struggle that clearly shows you are incorrect....they may choose the lesser of two evils, but we are NOT popular in MOST of the counries we have bases in...i've been to many of 'em and i know the reason why..it's called hubrus...
my real point is that you only see the world one way.. US and THEM
why on earth would you think Iraqi's think the same way as S. Koreans do?
and i suppose we are welcome in Saudi Arabia too? LOL they want US out too.
fact: Bush says he doesn't care what the popular ideas are and he proves it every day...
the coalition of the willing? how many are left in that now?????
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
i think that the british mp who testified before congress gives a stark contrast to what the world thinks... you should listen to his testamony today...
as far as world opinion you could here it directly from each broadcaster...
but what you are talking about is very complex and varies from country to country..
a global poll was taken for the election of george bush and he only got like 5% so this is public opinion pumped by the bbc.
i have heard radio canada do man on the street interviews in Iraq many times and they have never intervied anyone who was anti US... or wanted the US out. And radio canada is very anti US and slanted...
So basically Art is correct in saying the people of Iraq want us there... they have opened a stock market... and capitalism is booming....
All of europe hates us...all of South america hates us...Asia needs us really bad...
The only place we are very popular is with the former soviet bloc countries... we are polands #1 ally.. and all the former block countries love us...
Posts: 1070 | From: louisville,ky,usa | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Glassman: LOL Art, i mentioned the Phillipines too, you are the one with tunnel vision...i KNOW what i'm talking about... the PI? they invited us to leave...
Art: Nonsense. Show me evidence.
Glassman: Korea? Yes I just posted a news clip from today, but that PR is not really the point, just an example of the daily struggle that clearly shows you are incorrect....they may choose the lesser of two evils, but we are NOT popular in MOST of the counries we have bases in...
Art: We all choose the lesser of two evils - show me where that this is not true. The fact is that no country wants us to pull our military out - a minority in each country does. Sure we are unpopular as the number 1 power in the world. I have tried to explain to you before that no country's foreign policy is about winning a world popularity contest - it is about furthering the country's best interets. Since we do that better than any other country we are hated. Tha tonly means we should continue - lack of popularity means we are doing a good job in advancing our interests.
Don't confuse our lack of popularity with a wish for us to leave a country militarily. Syria, Russia, France, Iran, China, and Germany want us to leave Iraq, but the Iraqis do not.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Glassman: LOL Art, i mentioned the Phillipines too, you are the one with tunnel vision...i KNOW what i'm talking about... the PI? they invited us to leave...
Art: Nonsense. Show me evidence.
you are lost to the TRUTH then Art.... the PI sent US packing....
ask anybody..... i spent many days in Olongapo and Subic city..and i know EXACTLY why they asked US to leave....
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