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By Dana Priest Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, January 14, 2005; Page A01
Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as the training ground for the next generation of "professionalized" terrorists, according to a report released yesterday by the National Intelligence Council, the CIA director's think tank.
Iraq provides terrorists with "a training ground, a recruitment ground, the opportunity for enhancing technical skills," said David B. Low, the national intelligence officer for transnational threats. "There is even, under the best scenario, over time, the likelihood that some of the jihadists who are not killed there will, in a sense, go home, wherever home is, and will therefore disperse to various other countries."
..................................................These are the thoughts of people who know alot more about what is going on over there than any of us. So how can you say what we are doing is helping?
Posts: 84 | From: austin texas united states | Registered: Jan 2005
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Art, once again i will have to point out to you that Saddam actually complied with the UN sanctions...he became a victim of his own pride and greed......
the UN worked...big shock...
the stupid part here is that the oil for food program was so lucrative for a select few (Sadadm included) that they decided to "keep it"..Sadam was building big palaces and flaunting them to the world EVERYBODY KNEW he was a theif...
Art, with all due respect, you can present no evidence to support your claim that Saddam would have eventually gotten any WMD and used them against US/Israel because there is no evidence.. and can be no evidence. it's a what if that won't happen...and if our and Israel's State Dept and Intel people were on the job he never would have...i have confidence in them both
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glassman: MY plan? would have involved following up on Afghanistan and Osama been alive too long...he's still out there, remember?...as far as i'm concerned? 'till he's dead we are still behind...
Art: Osama is no factor and hasn't been since 9/11 thanks to U.S. military action - might as well be dead. Your plan of ignoring Saddam and leaving him to sthrive would have eventaully led to chaos in the mideast and to our economy which depends so much on a peaceful mideast. Thank God your plan was not used.
glassman: this is a waste of time since you refuse to acknowledge facts presented by the very people you claim to support..the DOD (from the secretary on down) has stated over and over again SINCE the election that Iraq is a "breeding and training ground" for NEW terroists....
Art: Yes, Iraq is a magnet but not a breeding ground for terrorists. Terrorists are born more than made by circumstance - killers looking to kill, more because of innate traits than learned ones (otherwise there would be many mor of them).
There really aren't that many terroists. It is such an eficient way of warfare that it only takes a few to create an exoplosion tha tis playewd up uin the liberal media to look far more serious than it realy is. 9/11 was big and the military action we have taken has helped prevent another 9/11.
glassman: i am not anti-war...
Art: You are not true to yourself or not fuly understanding of yourself - you have an aggression phobia that is irrational at times and could be a problem if you ever needed to defend your life from immoral attack.
glassman: trying to say that the possible peace between Israel and Palestine is a result of Iraq is just more boot-strapping....
Art: Peace is coming about in the mideast because terrorism is losing and the Palestinian leaders are realizing this and are being forced to give up the fight.
To deny this is to deny reality.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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LOL Art, aggression phobia? i play nicely here...in internet communication passive aggressive is more or less a requirement since we are unble to ultize body language to influence the communication....
but i assure you i have no agression phobia...
i studied martial arts for a long time, and i know that a true warrior need not be aggressive... a true warrior just is...
the ones that yell the loudest and swagger the most are the ones that are most afraid...they do it to overcome their fear..
just as the "homophobes" that yell the loudest are the one repressing their homsexuality
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glassman: Art, once again i will have to point out to you that Saddam actually complied with the UN sanctions...he became a victim of his own pride and greed......
the UN worked...big shock...
Art: That is false. Saddam threw the UN inspectors out for a long time and when he allowed them back Saddam did not cooperate fully with UN inspectors (they reported this repeaetedly).
Saddam engaged in hostile air action against coalition fighters in the no-fly zone he had agreed to stay out of.
Saddam was given an ultimatum to allow unrestricted weapons inspections by a specified date or the U.S. would invade.
Saddam refused.
We invaded.
And you call this a case of inspections working?
glassman: Art, with all due respect, you can present no evidence to support your claim that Saddam would have eventually gotten any WMD and used them against US/Israel because there is no evidence..and can be no evidence.
Art: Evidence? He had WMD and used thenm in the past, both against Iran and agsinst his own people. He put his WMD program on hold until he could get the sanctions lifted, and then planned to reactivate his WMD program. Those that he had are buried in Iraq or were moved to syria.
Do you have even the slightest shred of evidence that he would never have reactivated his WMD and would never have used then again in the future had we not invaded Iraq?
What you have is wishful thinking of La La land where everyone loves each other, and that is the only basis for your opinion here.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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i studied martial arts for a long time, and i know that a true warrior need not be aggressive... a true warrior just is...
the ones that yell the loudest and swagger the most are the ones that are most afraid...they do it to overcome their fear..
Art: I bet you studied martial arts more out of fear than out of willingness to use aggression to defend yourself.
The truth is that we have bent over backwards with diplomacy, aid etc., and this only works with benevolent people. It doesn't work with terrorists or nations that sympathesize with terrorists.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend aplies to al Qaeda linking eventually with Saddam - it would have happened.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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Art: Osama is no factor and hasn't been since 9/11 thanks to U.S. military action - might as well be dead. Your plan of ignoring Saddam and leaving him to sthrive would have eventaully led to chaos in the mideast and to our economy which depends so much on a peaceful mideast. Thank God your plan was not used.
ghtry: Art i hate to tell you this but i have to say there is chaos in the mideast as we speak. And i would have to say with as much violence as there is going on over there its not very peacful
Posts: 84 | From: austin texas united states | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ghtry: By Dana Priest Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, January 14, 2005; Page A01
Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as the training ground for the next generation of "professionalized" terrorists, according to a report released yesterday by the National Intelligence Council, the CIA director's think tank.
Iraq provides terrorists with "a training ground, a recruitment ground, the opportunity for enhancing technical skills," said David B. Low, the national intelligence officer for transnational threats. "There is even, under the best scenario, over time, the likelihood that some of the jihadists who are not killed there will, in a sense, go home, wherever home is, and will therefore disperse to various other countries."
..................................................These are the thoughts of people who know alot more about what is going on over there than any of us. So how can you say what we are doing is helping?
True. Iraq is drawing them so we can kill them there. Iraq is like roach bait to bring them out.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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"There is even, under the best scenario, over time, the likelihood that some of the jihadists who are not killed there will, in a sense, go home, wherever home is, and will therefore disperse to various other countries."
Posts: 84 | From: austin texas united states | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ghtry: By Dana Priest Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, January 14, 2005; Page A01
Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as the training ground for the next generation of "professionalized" terrorists, according to a report released yesterday by the National Intelligence Council, the CIA director's think tank.
Iraq provides terrorists with "a training ground, a recruitment ground, the opportunity for enhancing technical skills," said David B. Low, the national intelligence officer for transnational threats. "There is even, under the best scenario, over time, the likelihood that some of the jihadists who are not killed there will, in a sense, go home, wherever home is, and will therefore disperse to various other countries."
..................................................These are the thoughts of people who know alot more about what is going on over there than any of us. So how can you say what we are doing is helping?
True. Iraq is drawing them so we can kill them there. Iraq is like roach bait to bring them out. Far less wil disperse after their defeat in Iraq than came to Iraq in the first place - and they will be isolated and disenchanted when they disperse.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ghtry: Art: Osama is no factor and hasn't been since 9/11 thanks to U.S. military action - might as well be dead. Your plan of ignoring Saddam and leaving him to sthrive would have eventaully led to chaos in the mideast and to our economy which depends so much on a peaceful mideast. Thank God your plan was not used.
ghtry: Art I hate to tell you this but i have to say there is chaos in the mideast as we speak. And i would have to say with as much violence as there is going on over there its not very peacful
I'm talking about a level of chaos that would bring the world's economy down. I hate tio tell you but we have avoided that so far.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
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Just pretend for a second that your a terrorist that is trying to recruit people. Dont you think this war has created so much hatred it would be easy to recruit people. People arent born terrorist they become them. All this is doing is making it easier to make more terrorist
Posts: 84 | From: austin texas united states | Registered: Jan 2005
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glassman Member posted February 11, 2004 09:42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, PG i don't like to talk politics cuz absolutes can't be applied--LOL-- the Iraq thing may be a wolverine trap. The bait has been set out and now we will see how many show up to play. It's better to be the hunter than the prey and this is one way to get the job done. I don't believe the ends absolutely justify the means. when my heart became less young i definitely closed the book as in Paul and Linda's song
Art, if this was a trap it was set poorly to say the least..you are the one that has idealistic fantasies in this discussion...
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Your way of national defense is to passively wait for events, then adjust to them as best you can.
This is reflected in your plan to not invade Iraq and to instead spend all our effort to get Osama - a mere figurehead in that we have already broken up his organization, isolating his terrorists (largely in Iraq), and are killing them off. We did exactly what we should have done about Osama.
Your plan of concentrating only on Osama would have allowed Saddam to flourish with lifted sanctions, and allow him to return to developing WMD to make future trouble in the mideast, while allowing Iran and Iraq to make nuclear weapons, and allow Syria and the terrorists to get these nuclear weapons, causing nuclear attacks on U.S. soil and nuclear war with Israel, with retaliation to destroy the mideast oil supply and bring down the world's economy.
What scenerio would you have predicted if we had not invaded Iraq? You say I am delusion in my predictions and I say you are delusional in thinking that everything would be fine if we had not invaded Iraq. Let's see who is delusional - what are your predictions?
We always predict in life. It is not enough to passively adjust to events, we have to predict and control them, whether we invest in stocks or in making any decision.
Thank God we had Bush and his advisors to see what would likely happen and take the action needed to prevent disaster for this countery.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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Art you dont explain N. Korea in any of your post. I know its not in the mid East but they still have nuclear weapons. And Russia has lots of nuclear materials that arent protected that well. If our government is going to spend all this money to prevent WMD. Should't it be spending more money to make sure the weapons in Russia stay in Russia
Posts: 84 | From: austin texas united states | Registered: Jan 2005
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i never said ANYTHING would be fine Art...that WOULD be ignorant... you are puttin' words in my mouth again...
as you can see, i saw the "trap" theory early on, but you are forgetting what WE did to fully bait it...abu graib....if in fact that was planned? it doesn't appear that it was, considering how far out of hand it got...
i am simply doing CBA....sadam was NOT doing what they said he was and that's just the truth..your assertion that osama is just a figurehead may be true. BUT he's a LIVE figurehaed..that continues to provide emotional "momentum"
facts have been few and far between in this mess, and you can't deny that many people who have stood on facts have been swept away by the lies, AND the emotional power play.... heck, even the FAA has come out SINCE the election and admitted they had DIRE warnings of hijackings and even using jets as bombs...wasn't it even in a freaking movie? OH yeah Tom Clancy, the Hawk, provided that plan? everybody is just covering their butts.
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quote:Originally posted by ghtry: Art you dont explain N. Korea in any of your post. I know its not in the mid East but they still have nuclear weapons. And Russia has lots of nuclear materials that arent protected that well. If our government is going to spend all this money to prevent WMD. Should't it be spending more money to make sure the weapons in Russia stay in Russia
I have made several remarks about N.Korea - do a search on this forum, perhaps even this thread. The Korean area is not vital to the world and U.S. economy like the mideast. We only have to give nukes to S. Korea, Japan and Taiwan, aimed at N. Korea (and China), or threaten to do this, and China will straighten out N. Korea in a heartbeat. We should not give into N. Korean blackmail (money for disarming) as we did this before under Clinton and N.Korea developed nuclear weapons anyway, against the agreement with us.
A number of countries are looking for the missing Russian weapons - we are doing all that we can in this regard. We may find them (too late) after a terrorist-attack nuclear explosion in NYC. Welcome to today's world.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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If we go to war with IRAN the US will FAIL!! This would be the most idiotic thing our government has ever done.
I think they are planing a strategic airstrike. This is all it would take for full blown war to start. Iran has already said it will respond to ANY attack! Would you blame them? If we do an air attack I have read that Iran would respond by sending WAVES of troops to attack American positions in Iraq causing massive loss of life on both sides. Iran will not Topple like IRAQ did.
Posts: 1458 | From: Ohio | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: give nukes to taiwan? sheesh Art, which color koolaid should i avoid?
Leave Taiwan defenseless against N. Korea's regional ambitions fueled by nulear missiles?
sheesh Glassman, what color koolaid are you drinking? Avoid that color in the future.
Tiawan likely already has nuclear weapons, but the threat of more from the U.S. would make China shape up N. Korea and force them to give up their nuclear weapons. You think it would be bad for N. Korea to give up their nuclear weapons?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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Art? i assume you are just jokin' around...US sending nukes to taiwan would be no different than say.. Russia sending them to Cuba...
we don't need to anyway, we have these neat things called subs...they go most anywher they want...as long as they avoid surfacing under Japanese fishing boats and well, underwater mountains off of Guam..they work pretty darn good...
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glass: unfortunately OSU, there is a problem....
we can't afford to leave Iraq with a shi'ite govt. given the current overall situation ...
despite all of the promises and self-congratualtion over the success of the Iraq elections,
there is still the concern that fundamentlists will end up in control... that's what all this is really about...
Iran will be forced to give up it's nukes...one way or another....
ghtry: Oh glass only if i had enough trust in our government for them to use common sense. We have left Afganistan in shambles what makes you think we wont do the same to Iraq?
Posts: 84 | From: austin texas united states | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by osubucks30: If we go to war with IRAN the US will FAIL!! This would be the most idiotic thing our government has ever done.
I think they are planing a strategic airstrike. This is all it would take for full blown war to start. Iran has already said it will respond to ANY attack! Would you blame them? If we do an air attack I have read that Iran would respond by sending WAVES of troops to attack American positions in Iraq causing massive loss of life on both sides. Iran will not Topple like IRAQ did.
Iran will not be allowed to have nukes. If it takes a full scale war so be it - they will fall as fast as Iraq did, we will wipe out their nuke facilities, and support the youth of Iran and many other Iranians that want a Democracy.
It will not come to this because Iran knows they can send waves of troops against the U.S. and they will be slaughtered en masse and surender in droves. Our greatest problem in fighting Iran would be handling their troops who surrender. The Iranian troops do not want to fight for a government they hate, just like in Iraq.
A series of air strikes to destroy Iranian nuke plants will bring them quickly to negotiatians to agree with UN inspections and nuclear disarming.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Art? i assume you are just jokin' around...US sending nukes to taiwan would be no different than say.. Russia sending them to Cuba...
No similarity at all. We stopped Russia in Cuba, but who will stop us from arming S. Korea, Japan, or Taiwan? That's why we have abig defense budget, for situations like this one. Again I say to you:
Leave Taiwan defenseless against N. Korea's regional ambitions fueled by nulear missiles?
sheesh Glassman, what color koolaid are you drinking? Avoid that color in the future.
Tiawan likely already has nuclear weapons, but the threat of more from the U.S. would make China shape up N. Korea and force them to give up their nuclear weapons. You think it would be bad for N. Korea to give up their nuclear weapons?
[ February 23, 2005, 09:34: Message edited by: Art ]
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A)cuz i think you are not very well informed...
B) becuase Taiwan is a major bone of contention between US and China, and whatever is going there? you have no clue..and if you did? you COULDN'T talk about it...
that spyplane of ours the chinese captured a couple years back? how worried were they about US getting "mad" at them? LOL they thumbed their noses at US because they COULD....
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glassman: Art, i suggest you do a little research on China and India.. specifically their military capabilities...
Art? Why? What is your point here?
glassman: cuz i think you are not very well informed...
Art: What lack of information was reflected in my previous posts and how is it relevant?
glassman: your statement about Taiwan having nukes and where they might have gotten them is NOT a topic for discussion or speculation
Art: Why?
glassman: becuase Taiwan is a major bone of contention between US and China, and whatever is going there? you have no clue..and if you did? you COULDN'T talk about it...
Art: So, we can't discuss anything that is a bone of contention betwen the U.S. and China?Since Iraq is a bone of contention betwen the U.S. and Europe does taht also mean we can't discuss Iraq? And what specifically makes you think my previous posts reflect my ignorance of the independence of Taiwan and China's resentment over this independence, stemming from the onset of communism in China and the breakoff and retreat of non-communists to Taiwan?
And do you think that Taiwan today lacks nuclear weapons, contrary to what I suggested, and if so, what has prevented China from invading Taiwan in recent years?
glassman: that spyplane of ours the Chinese captured a couple years back? how worried were they about US getting "mad" at them? LOL they thumbed their noses at US because they COULD....
Art: Yes, it wasn't worth it to the U.S. to start a nuclear war over this, and there wasn't much we could do otherwise but use the threat of economic sanctions to get the soldiers back. So what is your point here?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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mostly Art, because you won't like the answers if you look for the truth... China? they perfected warfare before the Magna Carta.... it doesn't matter how many new toys we make, it's still people operating them... our sub fleet is what makes US untouchable... and as you so blithely put it? Art: Yes, it wasn't worth it to the U.S. to start a nuclear war over this,
NOTHING is....
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it might make you nervous to know for instance that Russia seems to be willing to sell China back-fire bombers. this could effectively nullify our aircraft carriers which are the real defense we provide to Taiwan...
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: mostly Art, because you won't like the answers if you look for the truth... China? they perfected warfare before the Magna Carta.... it doesn't matter how many new toys we make, it's still people operating them... our sub fleet is what makes US untouchable... and as you so blithely put it?
Art: You typically rationalize your not answering, instead of answering my, questions.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: it might make you nervous to know for instance that Russia seems to be willing to sell China back-fire bombers. this could effectively nullify our aircraft carriers which are the real defense we provide to Taiwan...
Not true. Our carriers have ship to air missiles to easily shoot down the Russian bombers. The real defense we provide Taiwan is in our nuclear threat to China as well as Taiwan's own nuclear weapons. Remove this defensive threat and China gobbles up Taiwan in a heartbeat.
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