posted
Syria and Iran will have new governments within a year, in my opinion. We have to do something about their support of terrorism. Syria likely has at least some of Saddam's WMD and Iran has these and is developing them.
Here is a recent news item :
US, French and Israeli intelligence have solid evidence that Syrian military intelligence orchestrated Hariri assassination in Lebanon.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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The American people better not get sucked into another war. Can't even handle Iraq let alone invade another country!
-------------------- Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. Benjamin Franklin Posts: 1458 | From: Ohio | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Art: Iraq was a piece of cake.
Tell that to the people who are still being killed every day. If we invade Iran that may be the start of the downfall of America. Although you are probably a person who believes America is untouchable.
Posts: 1458 | From: Ohio | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
"Iraq was a piece of cake" how can you say that art? People die everyday over there and Afganistan is in horrible shape. Warlords are running the show in Afganistan except for in the capitol
Posts: 84 | From: austin texas united states | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ghtry: "Iraq was a piece of cake" how can you say that art? People die everyday over there and Afganistan is in horrible shape. Warlords are running the show in Afganistan except for in the capitol
More people are killed in domestic conflicts (ratio of 2 wives to 1 husband) in one year, than were U.S. soldiers killed in the Iraqi and Afghanistan wars.
The U.S. family situation is more violent than these wars. The liberal press blows up the U.S. casualities but these has been very, very easy wars for the U.S. (ever heard of WW II, or even Korea or Viet Nam?).
Afghanistan was a sewer before and remains a better sewer today but it is no longer a base for international terrorism, and the terrorists can no longer have possible access to Saddam's help in the future.
More importantly, the U.S. and its mideast military presence is the dominant non-Arab influence in the mideast, replacing France, Russia, and Germany there, and this means mideast peace is probable where before it was impossible.
You don't get these realities from the liberal U.S. and world press, do you?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Art: Iraq was a piece of cake.
Tell that to the people who are still being killed every day. If we invade Iran that may be the start of the downfall of America. Although you are probably a person who believes America is untouchable.
Get real! Iran will fall from within, with minimal U.S. action. They certainly can't destroy the U.S.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Why dont we try a little thing called diplomacy once in a while. Why do people always need to die to get things done?
Posts: 84 | From: austin texas united states | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ghtry: Why dont we try a little thing called diplomacy once in a while. Why do people always need to die to get things done?
We try diplomacy all of the time. Ten years of diplomacy and maybe 15 U.N. resolutions against Saddam didn't work (France, Germany and Russia told Saddam that they would prevent the U.S. from taking military action against him, and he believed them, when all Saddam had to do was cooperate fully with the U.N. weapons inspections and he would still be in power today.
France, Russia, and Germany are responsible for the Iraq war.
Diplomacy only works when backed by force, and war is diplomacy by other means. We have used diplomacy for many years with Syria and Iran and it has accomplished nothing.
Do you advocate leaving Syria and Iran alone, and letting them continue to disrupt the Palestinian peace with Israel and supply WMD to terrorists, given their refusal to respond to our (and European diplomacy)? That would leave U.S. citizens and the world economy vulnerable to devasting harm, which would be totally irresponsible and idiotic for the U.S. to do.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ghtry: Why dont we try a little thing called diplomacy once in a while. Why do people always need to die to get things done?
Peace and progress always come with a cost, often from death and destruction. Thinking this could be otherwise is liberal delusion that refuses to understand reality. You can never eliminate aggression and it would be hell on earth if it could be eliminated. Evolution and existence are as dependent on aggression as they are on cooperation.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
India's TISCO, Essar Steel Aiming to Build in Iran Mon Feb 21, 2005 08:07 AM ET Printer Friendly | Email Article | Reprints | RSS Top News Bush Pushes Europe to Back Mideast Democracy Bush Insists Russia Renew Commitment to Democracy Israel Frees 500 Prisoners in Gesture to Abbas MORE
BOMBAY (Reuters) - India's biggest private steel maker, Tata Iron & Steel Co. (TISCO) (TISC.BO: Quote, Profile, Research) , and rival Essar Steel Ltd. (ESRG.BO: Quote, Profile, Research) are in talks to set up plants in Iran, an Indian foreign ministry official said on Monday.
Essar has made presentations to an Iranian company to build a steel plant as a joint venture, or provide technical expertise, an industry source said. Essar is also pursuing consulting opportunities in Iran, the source added, but no decision had been taken yet on the venture or the size of the possible investment.
India's envoy to Iran, K.C. Singh, told an Indian-Iranian business conference in New Delhi the Essar and TISCO projects were very much in the pipeline and worth hundreds of millions of dollars each.
here's some reality for you...think maybe this is the way to take over Iran? YES!.....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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The most unknown war taught in America today is the War of 1812... it is considered a minor after-thought.
Yet more people died in that war by 8 times than have been lost in Iraq.
I dont see big advocation to stopping people from driving cars, and yet each year they kill 30 times the amount of soldiers who have died in 2 years of combat.
Its amazing... America no longer has the spirit, the fortitude, and or the guts to help the people of the world, and even to protect our own interests.
Why is it that we have 80-90 year old men who can remember Pearl Harbor so well, and just 3.5 years later, we only think of 9/11 once a year... and for the most part, even it has lost its luster.
Argonath
-------------------- DrWho Posts: 78 | From: Mesa, AZ, USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
We arent helping anything when we go and start wars. We are just increasing the world wide hatred of America and increases our chances of being attacked
Posts: 84 | From: austin texas united states | Registered: Jan 2005
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I am aware of that. That still doesnt explain why people should give there lives for no reason. Think of how many lives it would save if instead of using all the money we have in Iraq we used it to make vaccines. All i'm trying to say is what we are doing in the middle east in stupid and causing a great loss of life for no reason. Tell me what needs to be done to win the "war on terror." We never can its just a bunch of BS when people say that.
Posts: 84 | From: austin texas united states | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
There IS no easy war in the world. Show me a war that was won in a year, AND the peace lasted more than 5 years, and I will take a LONG look at your point of view. The point is, and I dont know how old you are Ghtry, today we live in a world of quick NOW NOW NOW self-gratification, and people dont want to have to work for success. Just look at this board in the stock sections... I see more and more and more people begging for stocks to buy. That tells me that they want what THEY want, and dont want to work for it.
If our government during the 80's after Lebanon, and Beirut, the 90's after the Pan Am flights, the Achille Laurel, the first Iraq War, the first Trade Center bombings, etc... wouldnt do what they needed to do, then its like having an infection in your leg. If you treated it when it first occurred, it would have hurt for a short bit, but would have healed quickly.
Now, we have gangrene and we have to cut off the leg becasue the infection has grown immensely.
One thing I have learned in 36 years of life... you cant fix every ill in the world... not with all the money in the world, and not with all the firepower.
Argonath
-------------------- DrWho Posts: 78 | From: Mesa, AZ, USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Why do we need to invade every country we dont agree with? If we are invading to help the people we should be looking at N. Korea. That place is in many ways scarier than the book 1984. If we have taken the job of being world police shouldnt we be more concerned about N. Korea than anything?
Posts: 84 | From: austin texas united states | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
ghtry: I am aware of that. That still doesn't explain why people should give there lives for no reason.
Art: People will always give up their lives to natural disasters, accidents, disease. The universe runs on opposing forces that fluctuate in parity - positive/negative, love/hate, cooperation/destruction, etc.
Does no good to whine about the immutable nature of the universe - "Oh why do I or others have to suffer, die?"
There is a reason for suffering and death, whatever the cause of the tragedy. It is the nature of the universe. This is the best of all possible worlds as the world would not be possible without its negative forces of hate, death destruction, suffering, etc. A world with no pain, suffering, death, hate, etc. would be a sterile hell, and those who can't realize this lack an understandaing of the world and its laws, and the evolution of life forms and their traits.
ghtry: Think of how many lives it would save if instead of using all the money we have in Iraq we used it to make vaccines.
Art: Yes, and the terrorists would thrive and obtain and use WMD and cause a world wide economic depression with roving gangs killing for food, and millions would suffer and starve. Did you hear about the 9/11 attacks on the U.S.?
ghtry: All i'm trying to say is what we are doing in the middle east in stupid and causing a great loss of life for no reason.
Art: It's all about protecting the U.S. from evil attack and from economic depression. You may choose the destruction of the U.S. yourself, but most of us in the U.S. don't. I take it you support terrorism and the destrcution of the U.S.
ghtry: Tell me what needs to be done to win the "war on terror." We never can its just a bunch of BS when people say that.
Art: You advocate not fighting and letting the U.S. be brought down. We are winning the war on terrorism - this is no longer just a BS goal but an actual reality. You will continue to be depressed in the next year as more evidence of our winning comes in.
Deal with it.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
ghtry: Why do we need to invade every country we don't agree with?
Art: We invade invaders to protect our national interests - it is only superficially a clash of ideas. The priority of every nation is rightfully to protect its national interests. A peaceful mideast, centering on Arab-Israeli peace, is vital to our national interests. The Iraq invasion was all about fighting terrorism over there instead of at home, and bringing peace and stability to the mideast. As a result of the Iraq war, terrorism is losing and peace is now breaking out in the mideast to avoid a world wide economic depression.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
hmmm we are winning the war on terrorism? there are more terrorist now than ever before, and that's coming from the US DOD. not some pansy liberal media outlet... terrrorists aren't some evil force of nature as you would appear to claim ...they are created by disenfranchisement and twisted religious leaders...
we have opened pandora's box and there is no closing it...but we should still learn from our "mistakes"... first? you have to admit them...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
ghtry: If we are invading to help the people we should be looking at N. Korea. That place is in many ways scarier than the book 1984. If we have taken the job of being world police shouldnt we be more concerned about N. Korea than anything?
Art: We are not looking to help people - that is PR nonsense to assuage liberals like yourself. We are looking to serve our national interests and not give our wealth to the world as the universal-love nuts and the U.N. want us to do.
N. Korea would be a priority if it threatend our economy like the mideast does. It is a problem for S. Korea and Japan to deal with, and they are trying to get us to take it own and deal with it to let them off the hook - and liberals would support this. Bush will jhave none of this nonsense, which is why he refuses to engage in 2 party (U.S. and N. Korea) negotiations. We did that under Clinton and N. Korea broke their negotiated promises and took us for the fools that we were under Clinton.
We simply give Japan, S. Korea, and Taiwan nuclear weapons and missiles to point at N. Korea (and China), or threaten to do so, and all of a sudden China threatens to withdraw its sustaining aid to N. Korea if they don't give up their nuclear weapons and rockets. I am sure this is in the cards.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: we have opened pandora's box and there is no closing it...but we should still learn from our "mistakes"... first? you have to admit them...
We are winning the war on terrorism. Their leaders are on the run and will soon be caught. We are gaining more allies to fight them - even France is helping out with spy reports to us.
The box we openeed is less costly to us than it would have been otherwise. Do you still have the fantasy that Saddam today would not have the U.N. sanctions lifted and would not be reactivating his WMD program if we had not invaded Iraq?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
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posted
Iraq New Terror Breeding Ground War Created Haven, CIA Advisers Report
By Dana Priest Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, January 14, 2005; Page A01
Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as the training ground for the next generation of "professionalized" terrorists, according to a report released yesterday by the National Intelligence Council, the CIA director's think tank.
Iraq provides terrorists with "a training ground, a recruitment ground, the opportunity for enhancing technical skills," said David B. Low, the national intelligence officer for transnational threats. "There is even, under the best scenario, over time, the likelihood that some of the jihadists who are not killed there will, in a sense, go home, wherever home is, and will therefore disperse to various other countries."
Low's comments came during a rare briefing by the council on its new report on long-term global trends. It took a year to produce and includes the analysis of 1,000 U.S. and foreign experts. Within the 119-page report is an evaluation of Iraq's new role as a breeding ground for Islamic terrorists.
President Bush has frequently described the Iraq war as an integral part of U.S. efforts to combat terrorism. But the council's report suggests the conflict has also helped terrorists by creating a haven for them in the chaos of war.
At the moment," NIC Chairman Robert L. Hutchings said, Iraq "is a magnet for international terrorist activity."
Before the U.S. invasion, the CIA said Saddam Hussein had only circumstantial ties with several al Qaeda members. Osama bin Laden rejected the idea of forming an alliance with Hussein and viewed him as an enemy of the jihadist movement because the Iraqi leader rejected radical Islamic ideals and ran a secular government.
Bush described the war in Iraq as a means to promote democracy in the Middle East. "A free Iraq can be a source of hope for all the Middle East," he said one month before the invasion. "Instead of threatening its neighbors and harboring terrorists, Iraq can be an example of progress and prosperity in a region that needs both."
But as instability in Iraq grew after the toppling of Hussein, and resentment toward the United States intensified in the Muslim world, hundreds of foreign terrorists flooded into Iraq across its unguarded borders. They found tons of unprotected weapons caches that, military officials say, they are now using against U.S. troops. Foreign terrorists are believed to make up a large portion of today's suicide bombers, and U.S. intelligence officials say these foreigners are forming tactical, ever-changing alliances with former Baathist fighters and other insurgents.
"The al-Qa'ida membership that was distinguished by having trained in Afghanistan will gradually dissipate, to be replaced in part by the dispersion of the experienced survivors of the conflict in Iraq," the report says.
According to the NIC report, Iraq has joined the list of conflicts -- including the Israeli-Palestinian stalemate, and independence movements in Chechnya, Kashmir, Mindanao in the Philippines, and southern Thailand -- that have deepened solidarity among Muslims and helped spread radical Islamic ideology.
At the same time, the report says that by 2020, al Qaeda "will be superseded" by other Islamic extremist groups that will merge with local separatist movements. Most terrorism experts say this is already well underway. The NIC says this kind of ever-morphing decentralized movement is much more difficult to uncover and defeat.
Terrorists are able to easily communicate, train and recruit through the Internet, and their threat will become "an eclectic array of groups, cells and individuals that do not need a stationary headquarters," the council's report says. "Training materials, targeting guidance, weapons know-how, and fund-raising will become virtual (i.e. online)."
The report, titled "Mapping the Global Future," highlights the effects of globalization and other economic and social trends. But NIC officials said their greatest concern remains the possibility that terrorists may acquire biological weapons and, although less likely, a nuclear device.
The council is tasked with midterm and strategic analysis, and advises the CIA director. "The NIC's goal," one NIC publication states, "is to provide policymakers with the best, unvarnished, and unbiased information -- regardless of whether analytic judgments conform to U.S. policy."
Other than reports and studies, the council produces classified National Intelligence Estimates, which represent the consensus among U.S. intelligence agencies on specific issues.
Yesterday, Hutchings, former assistant dean of the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University, said the NIC report tried to avoid analyzing the effect of U.S. policy on global trends to avoid being drawn into partisan politics.
Among the report's major findings is that the likelihood of "great power conflict escalating into total war . . . is lower than at any time in the past century." However, "at no time since the formation of the Western alliance system in 1949 have the shape and nature of international alignments been in such a state of flux as they have in the past decade."
The report also says the emergence of China and India as new global economic powerhouses "will be the most challenging of all" Washington's regional relationships. It also says that in the competition with Asia over technological advances, the United States "may lose its edge" in some sectors.
.................................................. Thankyou glass... Art please dont sit there and say i dont like America. Thats the reason I care about this so much because i feel like the country I love is just shooting itself in the foot. You dont have to agree with me but dont bring up the lame argument that it's because i like terrorist. Can we please not bring that into it bc we both obviously like america we just have diffrent opinions on how things should be done
Posts: 84 | From: austin texas united states | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
LOL Art, i'm not the delusional one here...
anybody who still thinks the Iraq war was about WMD is brain dead...and i am no liberal pansy either... i believe in taking strong actions, but more along the lines that somebody took with Arafat...maybe Putin did it....
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posted
glassman: hmmm we are winning the war on terrorism? there are more terrorist now than ever before, and that's coming from the US DOD. not some pansy liberal media outlet... terrrorists aren't some evil force of nature as you would appear to claim ...they are created by disenfranchisement and twisted religious leaders...
Art: Terrorists want to kill - it is not that they twisted or misunderstood or anything else. They want to kill more than anything else. The only way to deal with them is to kill them before they kill you - pre-emptive aggression. They are not more terroists now than before - they were always there and are now coming out of the woodwork.
There are less terrorists today than ever since many of them have been killed or are in prison, relative to our casualties.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Thats not the point we have made many more terrorist than we have killed
Posts: 84 | From: austin texas united states | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Art: Terrorists want to kill - it is not that they twisted or misunderstood or anything else. They want to kill more than anything else. The only way to deal with them is to kill them before they kill you - pre-emptive aggression. They are not more terroists now than before - they were always there and are now coming out of the woodwork.
and what makes you different?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: LOL Art, i'm not the delusional one here...
anybody who still thinks the Iraq war was about WMD is brain dead...and i am no liberal pansy either... i believe in taking strong actions, but more along the lines that somebody took with Arafat...maybe Putin did it....
Art: You refused to answer my question. The Iraq invasion was about WMD which Saddam had and used in the past, and was about fighting terrorism, and was about bringing about Arab-Israeli peace. We are succeeding on all fronts. Your plan of not invading was a plan for disaster for the U.S.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: i can take a dog and raise it be a "pit" fighter or i can raise it be a cherished member of my family... it's a matter of choice....
So, terrorism is our fault because we did not give welfare to the Arabs, and love them, and make them into gentle people (while we ignored their constant battles with Israel that attempted to destroy Israel while bringing disruption to the mideast to bring about a world wide depression)?
Let's hear more from La La land.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ghtry: Thats not the point we have made many more terrorist than we have killed
No, they were always there - we brought them out into the open. There are kilers in every society, and you have to bring them out to get rid of them. Eventaully we will get rid of them and no more will come out (which would not happen if you were correct since your theory says we would continue to create them forever).
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
MY plan? would have involved following up on Afghanistan and Osama been alive too long... he's still out there, remember?...as far as i'm concerned? 'till he's dead we are still behind...
this is a waste of time since you refuse to acknowledge facts presented by the very people you claim to support..the DOD (from the secretary on down) has stated over and over again SINCE the election that Iraq is a "breeding and training ground" for NEW terroists.... as i stated going INTO the election...
i am not anti-war, i just disagree with the way it has been waged, and with the way the propaganda has been handled...
stay tuned for further "outings" of propagandists (Gannon is the most recent)...the media people are diligent, they will leave no stone unturned...
trying to say that the possible peace between Israel and Palestine is a result of Iraq is just more boot-strapping....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ghtry: Iraq New Terror Breeding Ground War Created Haven, CIA Advisers Report
By Dana Priest Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, January 14, 2005; Page A01
Thankyou glass... Art please dont sit there and say i dont like America. Thats the reason I care about this so much because i feel like the country I love is just shooting itself in the foot. You dont have to agree with me but dont bring up the lame argument that it's because i like terrorist. Can we please not bring that into it bc we both obviously like america we just have diffrent opinions on how things should be done
The report is accurate. However, to suggest that the Iraq war worsened rather than solved the problem of terrorism is idiotic since it ignores the alternative to the war - what would have happened if we had not invaded. Saddam would today be strong, with sanctions lifted, developing WMD to use in his desire to destroy Israel (a dream of his along with taking over Kuwait and Saudi Arabia). Saddam and al Qaeda would come to use each other where Saddam would supply them WMD to use against the U.S. on U.S. soiul in order to preoccupy the U.S. while Saddam took over the mideast.
You and Glass are so focused on the problems of the Iraq war that you fail to see the greater problem resolution it has and will achieve in the mideast. The report cited also takes this limited liberal perspective.
Time will prove me right and you wrong, even more than it has proved so far.
Some destruction now can often prevent much greater destruction later, and this is the case with the Iraq war.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
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