posted
so it was a simple reversal of the vote...LOL not even fraud, just a dyslexic computer...LOL
Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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In Wisconsin, where exit polls put Kerry up seven percent, Bush has a lead of one percent, an unexplained difference of eight percent.
In New Mexico, Kerry led Bush by 3.8 percent, yet Bush leads Kerry by 3 percent in actual reported voting.
In Minnesota, where a new law sharply restricts reporters’ access to polls, Kerry led 9.6 percent in exit polling. Actual voting counts found that Bush trailed by 5 percent, with a 5 percent discrepancy favoring Bush.
Ohio, which does have paper trail capability but does not mandate receipts, had exits showed Kerry and Bush in a dead heat; in the near-final results, Bush led by three percent.
Exit polls put Kerry up by 8 percent in Michigan; actual results show Bush trailing by just 3 percent.
Nevada, which also has electronic voting – though should have mandated paper trails, had a variance of 4.2 percent. Kerry led the exit polls by 1.2 percent, while Bush led reported votes by 3 percent.
Two states with paper trails for voting were within 0.5 percent margin of error.
New Hampshire, which has electronic voting but provides verified receipts, exit polling is within 0.1 percent of the actual vote. Kerry led by 3 percent in exit polling, and 2.9 percent in the actual vote.
Maine, the final state for which analysis of exit polling was conducted before the AP “resampled” their data, was in the Kerry column by 7.5 percent; the end result put Kerry up 8 percent, a variance of 0.5 percent. Maine has no electronic voting.
Kerry does not gain by any significant margin in actual voting in any state for which analysis has been conducted.
Exit polling accurately predicted the results in most states with very little error. Where there were discrepancies, they were significant in the +5 percent range, and always favored Bush.
Exit polling have always been accurate. Starting in 2000 they have become more inaccurate but only where there is electronic voting! Is this just a coincidence? I don't think so! All EVoting machines are provided by Companies that back Republicans. If the people don't stand up for their right to vote with a PAPER trail then our demorcracy is all but done!
posted
The 2004 Election Has Already Been Rigged Posted September 2, 2003 thepeoplesvoice.org
By Schuyler Ebbets
The pollsters have been forced to admit that the majority of Americans are against the re-election of George W. Bush. Two wars, thousands of dead human beings, and ten million lost jobs later, and people are beginning to realize that something has gone terribly wrong. In spite of this gradual awakening most registered voters continue to depend on TV for their news and they are kept woefully in the dark about issues like election reform and touch screen voting. The media has gone to great lengths to foster an illusion of legitimacy and normalcy surrounding the electoral process. People have been intentionally lead to believe that their vote counts and Bush could actually be booted out of office on November 2nd. There is no way that Bush can lose, it just can’t happen, the 2004 election has already been rigged. In reality the corporations and the military industrial complex have bought themselves a government that will serve their interests and they will never allow a presidential election to jeopardize their investment again.
On February 23, 2001 Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris suggested that Florida rent rather than buy touch screen voting machines in time for the 2002 midterm election. She said, "I think it would be wrong-headed and precipitous to purchase any equipment now. If you buy now, you're buying antiquated technology". According to her twisted logic the purchase of defective voting equipment was a bad idea but it was acceptable to use the faulty voting systems in the election.
Prior to Florida's outrageous September 10, 2002 primary election, poll data showed heavy support for Janet Reno in Broward County, but election results from one Broward precinct alone revealed an impossible 0% turnout among more than 800 registered voters. Reno requested a recount of eighty precincts containing 31,375 registered Democrats because they reported only 1,952 votes. Her request was immediately turned down by the State Elections Board. According to an AP analysis, if those precincts matched the average county turnout, they should have produced 10,260 votes, more than five times the number recorded by the Election Systems & Software (ES&S), iVotronic touch-screen voting machines.
Almost two months later on election night, November 5th, 2002, tens of thousands of Floridians again experienced difficulties using the iVotronic machines. Voters called in to Neil Rogers AM radio talk show the day after the election and complained of “broken” voting machines, and machines that voted multiple times for Bush when McBride was selected. Electronic voting expert, Rebecca Mercuri told American Free Press, “Numerous severe voting system problems occurred throughout Florida electronic voting on November 5th, but none of the major news networks are covering these problems,” On November 6th, David Host, spokesman for the Florida Secretary of State, declared the elections, "an unqualified success", and the Associated Press reported, “The closely watched contest for governor in Florida was decided without a hitch.” This propaganda might have been believed if 103,222 ballots in Broward County alone had not been “misplaced”.
According to investigative reporter Greg Palast, the now infamous Katherine Harris used her position as Florida’s Secretary of State during the 2000 election to unjustly purge over 90,000 predominantly black and Hispanic Democratic voters from the rolls. People remembered how Harris had taken away their civil rights when she prevented them from voting. On November 5th, 2002, most of the Democratic electorate of 3.7 million people turned out to vote. Although registered Democrats outnumbered Republicans by 340,000, it was too late, the new ES&S iVotronic machines had already been installed in eleven key Florida counties. On November 5, 2002 Jeb Bush became governor of Florida again, and Katherine Harris was given a seat in the House of Representatives with only 138,940 votes, defeating Democratic opponent Jan Schneider's oddly low 114,618 votes.
This wasn’t the first Republican victory involving “Election Systems & Software” (ES&S). Former right wing radio talk-show host and CEO of ES&S, Chuck Hagel, decided he would run for the U.S. Senate in Nebraska with his own ES&S machines counting the votes. Hagel failed to mention that he had been both CEO and Chairman of ES&S on his disclosure documents, or that he was an owner in the company that installed, programmed, and operated the voting machines used by most of the citizens of Nebraska. In 1996, Republican Hagel won the race in Democratic Nebraska for the U.S. Senate easily carrying both the primary and general elections. According to Bev Harris of blackboxvoting.com, Hagel scored lopsided victories in almost every demographic group, including Black communities that had never voted for a Republican. With the widest margin of victory in state history Hagel became the first Republican in 24 years to win a Senate seat in Nebraska. On November 5, 2002 Hagel ran against Democrat Charlie Matulka and was re-elected to his second term in the United States Senate by an unreal 83% of the vote. Again, the votes were counted by computer-controlled voting machines built programmed and installed by Hagel’s company Election Systems & Software.
In Georgia, Republican Saxby Chambliss repeatedly questioned the patriotism of Democratic incumbent and triple amputee war hero Max Cleland during his campaign. Chambliss made the absurd claim that he was more patriotic than Cleland even though Chambliss himself had avoided service in the Vietnam war with a "medical deferment". A Poll taken by the Atlanta Journal Constitution published on November 1st, just five days before the election, showed support for Georgia Democratic Senator Max Cleland at 49%, clearly 5% ahead of Republican Saxby Chambliss at 44%. Many People in Georgia, particularly veterans, had been angered by the hypocritical remarks made by Chambliss and turned out in record numbers to vote for Cleland. When the 'Diebold' Electronic Voting tally was made public it stunned and confused the Georgia voters. Saxby Chambliss had won with 53% of the vote compared to Max Cleland’s 46%. It represented a 9% pro-Republican swing that seemed to materialize out of thin cyberspace. The victories of Chambliss and Hagel, along with the tragic October 25, 2002 plane crash that killed Democratic Senator Paul Wellstone, virtually guaranteed Republican control of the Senate.
The Neocon election rigging juggernaut lurches forward unstoppable in the guise of so-called election reform. Three Republican dominated corporations now control over 80% of the vote count in the United States: Sequoia Voting Systems Inc; Electronic Systems & Software Inc. (ES&S); and Diebold" Inc. As this transition has taken place, a pattern of election upsets which overwhelmingly favor Republican candidates is emerging. These are only test runs in preparation for the 2004 presidential selection. The Neocons have determined that elections can be manipulated easily with the new touch screen voting systems and when accompanied by a media pounding of lies the public will accept the rigged election results as fact. The greatest advantage of the new touch screen voting scam is the removal of a paper trail and the blockage of access to the inner workings of the software.
When a voter touches the screen to select a candidate there is no confirmation that the machine has actually registered the correct selection. In the old punch-card and fill-in-the-circle paper systems, voters could see their choice marked on the ballot. In the event of any confusion or question, a record of the vote existed and a recount was possible. Since the new electronic systems leave no paper trail there can be no recount and the results must be accepted as fact. Attempts to examine the code used by the machines in Florida were blocked in the courts by the GOP citing, "proprietary/trade secrecy" protections under a law, which made it impossible for the DNC to ascertain how the machines tabulated votes.
It would be admirable if the American people could resist the next rigged presidential election as they did the scam of 2000. Of course the ‘Supreme Court five’ would uphold the "proprietary/trade secrecy" protections and the bogus election results would be ruled as legitimate. The coming election fraud has been so well planned that it probably won’t make it into the courts. With the help of the media, the Neocons will deliver the deathblow to democracy at the touch screen voting terminals.
[This message has been edited by osubucks30 (edited November 07, 2004).]
posted
opitcal scanners have a paper trail don't they? what gets scanned....
i do agree that no paper trail is the dumbest thing ever...... i mean anybody who thinks that is a good thing is likely to an expert on the best tasting grasses...LOL
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 07, 2004).]
posted
There had to be fraud! The proof is that Kerry lost.
After all, most voters are dumb, and all the dumb people voted for Kerry. Ther eis no way that kerry could have lost unless Republican fraud was at play.
posted
Osubucks,this would be impossible,both sides,have people there watching this like a hawk.No way possible to happen all over.Could have bought 1 place maybe the rest is wishful thinking.
Posts: 942 | From: tracy,ca U.S.A | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Would it be impossible? Can you explain why all exit polling where Evoting machines (SUPPLIED BY REPUBLICAN BACKED COMPANIES) were off by 5% or more in Bush's favor. While exit polling where there was a paper trail were only .5% off! This is the problem with no paper trail!!
Posts: 1458 | From: Ohio | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
No paper trail means that a company who supplies the machines (COMPANIES THAT BACK REPUBLICANS) could program a machine to delete a certain percentage of the vote or even have a PREDETERMINED result.
[This message has been edited by osubucks30 (edited November 07, 2004).]
The fact is that exit polls into the evening of Nov. 2 showed Kerry rolling to a clear victory nationally and carrying most of the battleground states, including Florida and Ohio, whose totals would have ensured Kerry’s victory in the Electoral College.
Significantly, polls also showed Republicans carrying the bulk of the tight Senate races. However, when the official results were tallied, the presidential exit polls proved WRONG while the Senate polls proved RIGHT.
posted
What a coincidence this topic would come up. Ya know I really thought the Dems would learn something from this election, but I guess I was over optimistic. Its strange, I just watched a round table event on PCN (Pennsylvaina Cable Network) discussing the election results. To my disbelief the Dems (which had the table out numbered by the way) were spuing some of the most outragous theories and crap I've heard in a long time. I'll give you and example of what I heard. This is a paraphrase from Mark Single and long time PA Dem. He said, I find it offensive that people would go and vote there christian values and the Republicans would court that vote. He also tried to drag the ole Separation of Church and State into that part of the discussion. Funny I guess two weeks ago when Kerry was standing in the pulpit at a black church preaching that was ok. That shows ya just how ridiculous this has become. There were other examples also.
Posts: 474 | From: Central PA | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I THINK ITS ODD HOW EXIT POLLS WERE ON THE MONEY WHERE THERE WERE PAPER TRAILS AND WHERE THERE WAS ELECTRONIC VOTING THEY WERE OFF BY 5% OR MORE IN FAVOR OF BUSH!!
Posts: 1458 | From: Ohio | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
it is possible that the machines are hard wired to give specific results...i have worked with "computers" that ARE NOT PROGROMMABLE... BUT, we knew this before the election... AND,if you are correct, then CNN/Gallup and several other polling agancies are involved too .... why? because no matter how you manipulated the data, Bush won the pre-election polling on VOTES.... he gets bad marks on all kinds of stuff....but i think the election went the way it did, because americans are afraid.... personally i have a hard time with this... i am an adrenalin junkie..you know those "NO FEAR" slogans...that's a bad interpretation of the real issue...some of us LOVE FEAR...we thrive on it...other's just react away from it. US "no fear" people go to it like moth's to the flame...LOL back to the election...i never expected Bush to win FLA cuz the last eleaction there DID upset the local voters.... if there is a tabulation issue, all that needs to be done is to take a 100% sampling of one of the samller counties to determine if the vote came out right.... wouldn't be too hard, it would NOT hold up in court either, but it would give US an indication if there was a problem... DOES ANYBODY HAVE THE MOTIVATION TO DO THIS? and where does that leave US?......
just more mess....
ATM's can get it right over and over again, they are already MASS produced....we need to either get them nationwide or got to the system they used in Afghanistan..real low-tech..but as of now, we need to get on with life.....Bush isn't the anit-christ, and he's not going to get the world's leaders behind him...in two years, there is another election, look forward to it instead of back....
posted
that's not how it works Timber....the dems don't cross lines like that either....5% to 15% is reasonable, no more...
i suggest that it doesn't even have to be intentional for something like this to happen.... i know you guys think i'm a liberal, but i'm not... Bush will NOT (IMO)deliver nearly as much to the ultra-right as you guys hope... and i say that because i do not think he is as conservative as you all think he is... he has very carefully NOT committed himself on certain issues...just as Kerry did(which Keith pointed out to me).... Bush has stated VERY clearly that he is not anti-gay (Cheney *cough*) and has allowed others to promote his anti-gay agenda....only time will tell....
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 07, 2004).]
posted
We need to all get together and start gathering to make it a FEDERAL LAW that all votes have to have a paper trail. WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL WHY ARE SO MANY AGAINST THIS?
Over the past few years, Republicans have fought to prevent any type of paper trail through electronic voting. Despite printable ATM type receipts being a reasonable fail-safe, Republicans and corporations such as Diebold fought hard and eventually won the battle against a verifiable voting system.
posted
I am not against apaper trail,no problem i would vote for it.Lot of paper maybe there trying to balance the deficit with the money they save on paper LOL
quote:Originally posted by osubucks30: We need to all get together and start gathering to make it a FEDERAL LAW that all votes have to have a paper trail. WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL WHY ARE SO MANY AGAINST THIS?
Over the past few years, Republicans have fought to prevent any type of paper trail through electronic voting. Despite printable ATM type receipts being a reasonable fail-safe, Republicans and corporations such as Diebold fought hard and eventually won the battle against a verifiable voting system.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: that's not how it works Timber....the dems don't cross lines like that either....5% to 15% is reasonable, no more...
i suggest that it doesn't even have to be intentional for something like this to happen.... i know you guys think i'm a liberal, but i'm not... Bush will NOT (IMO)deliver nearly as much to the ultra-right as you guys hope... and i say that because i do not think he is as conservative as you all think he is... he has very carefully NOT committed himself on certain issues...just as Kerry did(which Keith pointed out to me).... Bush has stated VERY clearly that he is not anti-gay (Cheney *cough*) and has allowed others to promote his anti-gay agenda....only time will tell....
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 07, 2004).]
Optical Scanners, like you said, have a paper trail. All of the counties listed on the colored graph were optical scanned. So there is proof somewhere. And I don't expect President Bush to produce ultr-right either. Didn't vote for him for that reason although there were many. Kerry on the other hand I would have expected to produce leftest results. Just my opinion and nothing else.
[This message has been edited by timberman (edited November 07, 2004).]
Posts: 474 | From: Central PA | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Another thing here I would like to clear up. I am not anti-gay. I just think its wrong. Its funny how the Dems can't seem to separate the two. They like to say just because you don't agree with them you are prejudice (which by the way was another issue on PCN today and they accused Republicans as such). People have the right to be gay now. And I have the right to disagree with it.
[This message has been edited by timberman (edited November 07, 2004).]
Posts: 474 | From: Central PA | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I'm not anti-gay person either Glass! I'm anti-gay lifestyle! There is a difference! Just because the President cares for Cheneys daughter, doesn't mean he likes how she chooses to live her life! He likes her for who she is, not what she stands for! I really can't see how they think there were so many errors in the ballots! I know that where I work, there is a definate paper trail! It would be difficult for anyone to pull anything over on the system, because they have to come in, sign in in the book that has all registered people for our township, some are picked randomly for their ID, and are assigned a ballot number! If they mess it up, they have to be assigned a new ballot number, and void the old one! Our results here, were 412 for President Bush, and 115 for John Kerry! That means, when the machine counts the ballots, it has to match the amount we stated in our paperwork at the polls, before we took them in to be counted, which matches the book we have to turn in! I'm not saying there aren't a few human errors, but I can't see how there can be that large of a number, like they are implying.
Posts: 622 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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Optical scanning has the best track record of all equipment types currently in use," the Caltech and MIT team wrote in a July 16 report. "We recommend replacing punch cards, lever machines and older electronic machines with optical scanned ballot systems
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 07, 2004).]
posted
Ya know what this is all about don't ya all. The Dems want a recount again. And the results were not close enough to have one within the law which the Dems always think don't pertain to them. Therefore cry foul long enough till enough people start believeing it. This will do two things-1.make the base mad, keep it for future elections, and possibly produce a recount somehow 2.Try to reduce the impact of the victory of the President and Republicans with any mandate that they might claim. Remember the last time the battle cry was disenfranchise. The system was changed to eliminate this so they had to find something else. They just don't want to admit the Kerry wasn't the candidate that they needed. He did as good as he could with what he had to work with, just wasn't enough.
Posts: 474 | From: Central PA | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
timber, you have to admit that IF, BIG IF, those bar charts are correct it does need to be looked at.... just because the bell has rung, you don't ignore the instant replay in a situation like this.... i'm not saying they are correct, just IF
Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Glassman you know once the refs call a football game the league won't reverse it,same here.LOL The tech on those machines was color blind and the wires on voters were accidentally switched,he will be fired and it's over.LOL
Posts: 942 | From: tracy,ca U.S.A | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
We had a lot of Democrats, that said they voted for Bush, where I live! Maybe they did that in Florida too? It's poss-e-ble! Posts: 622 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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i think if we are gonna live in a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, we need to have the vote work...
if there was mistake that big (like the votes were counted in REVERSE, DUH), then it does matter... i'm not saying there was a mistake made.... i haven't looked at all the data, and what i see so far is NOT COMPELLING....
this isn't a football game...
the election isn't over yet....not until the elctoral college votes..LOL
posted
Did'nt think that was gonna fly.LOL Seriously if there is some hard evidence then fine,it should be looked into.But for the most part i think it's just sour grapes.
Posts: 942 | From: tracy,ca U.S.A | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
to be honest, i bet Kerry is partyin' his azz off, thanking every one of his stars he lost, and has no intention of looking into it....NO LOL
Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Kerry has millions. Why would he want all the stress that comes with being President? You might be right glass!
Posts: 1458 | From: Ohio | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
He won't have to the pundits will.If there is anything to this we will start to see the firestorm.We already new that polling data is worthless to a certain degree.They can skew the questions,and results.We shall see,nothing about it on real news that i can see.
Posts: 942 | From: tracy,ca U.S.A | Registered: Aug 2004
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