quote:

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Originally posted by T e x:
I don't mind needing a license to drive.

I do mind needing a license to walk.

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quote:

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If you ask me? the peopl that hire illegals are crooks too. They are worse than the immigrants, and i beleived that simply cracking down on them would wrok. I propesed it here several years before Bush finally had to face the fact that the American People would not allow amnesty to be given. The phones in Congress rang off the hooks...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Relentless.:
People don't believe that a national ID card is the catalyst for calling this country a police state.
It already IS a police state.
How many laws are on the books at this moment?
Hundreds of thousands?
Millions?
Poof... Police State.
The national ID card is just one more step towards centralizing government.. Violating both the constitution and the founding of this nation of States.
Any thoughts that eagerly await this development are born of grotesque naivety.

---

'bout time you weighed in, whatcha been doing sleeping?

so the US Govt has no right to issue a legal ID?

hmmmm.... i don't recall that being in the Constitution.

I have a VA card that i consider to be national ID already, it's even got my ugly mug on it...

you are correct, we already are a police state with certain crimes being ignored intentionally and people are being abused by it. In a Democratic Republic the laws are created to be enforced evenly and equally.

what on earth is wrong with a citizen carryng ID card that ID's them as a taxpaying citizen with skin in the game. It may ID them as having rights?
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
even the ultra-liberal UN recognises that only Citizens have the right to vote.


ICCPR, Article 25: Every citizen shall have the right and the opportunity, without any of the distinctions mentioned in Article 2 and without unreasonable restrictions:
(a) To take part in the conduct of public affairs, directly or through freely chosen representatives;
(b) To vote and to be elected at genuine periodic elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret ballot, guaranteeing the free expression of the will of the electors;
(c) To have access, on general terms of equality, to public service in his country.

if we cannot ID voters to determine that htey are citizens? then we are NOT a Sovereign Nation period. The whole notion of Sovereignty is at stake here. Without Sovereignty? The Govt has no authority at all.


Sovereignty is the quality of having supreme, independent authority over a territory. It can be found in a power to rule and make law that rests on a political fact for which no purely legal explanation can be provided. The concept has been discussed, debated and questioned throughout history, from the time of the Romans through to the present day, although it has changed in its definition, concept, and application throughout, especially during the Age of Enlightenment. The current notion of state sovereignty was laid down in the Treaty of Westphalia (1648), which, in relation to states, codified the basic principles of territorial integrity, border inviolability, and supremacy of the state (rather than the Church). A sovereign is a supreme lawmaking authority.
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.



this ammendment clearly makes Citizneship rights differnt from personhood rights.

personhood rights are granted by God to persons, Citizenship rights are granted by the govt in acknowledgement of Citizenship.

This is fundamental to sovereignty. The problem people are having is they want to grant all rights to everybody without distinction, and that's not Constitutional.
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
suppose a Natural Born Citizen wins the Presidency with CA as the deciding State in the electoral college. Suppose the winner in the CA general elections won the state by margin LESS than the number of voting illegal immigrants? The election is false isn't it?

before you tell me that can't happen? Don't bother.

In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presiden­tial vote margin in Florida in 2000.
Indeed, the Cen­sus Bureau estimates that there are over a million illegal aliens in Florida, and the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has prosecuted more non-citizen voting cases in Florida than in any other state.

doesn't this really matter alot?

in fact? doesn't a 3% margin of victory get nullified by this figure?

in fact this makes our govt null and void according to the Constitution itself.
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
here's another law just being ignored:

REAL ID Act

The REAL ID Act of 2005, Pub.L. 109-13, 119 Stat. 302, enacted May 11, 2005, was an Act of Congress that modified U.S. federal law pertaining to security, authentication, and issuance procedures standards for the state driver's licenses and identification (ID) cards, as well as various immigration issues pertaining to terrorism.

The law set forth certain requirements for state driver's licenses and ID cards to be accepted by the federal government for "official purposes", as defined by the Secretary of Homeland Security. The Secretary of Homeland Security has defined "official purposes" as presenting state driver's licenses and identification cards for boarding commercially operated airline flights and entering federal buildings and nuclear power plants.

The REAL ID Act implements the following:

* Changing visa limits for temporary workers, nurses, and Australian citizens.
* Establishing new national standards for state-issued driver licenses and non-driver identification cards.
* Funding some reports and pilot projects related to border security.
* Introducing rules covering "delivery bonds" (rather like bail bonds but for aliens who have been released pending hearings).
* Updating and tightening the laws on application for asylum and deportation of aliens for terrorist activity.
* Waiving laws that interfere with construction of physical barriers at the borders.

As of April 2, 2008, all 50 states have either applied for extensions of the original May 11, 2008 compliance deadline or received unsolicited extensions.[1] As of October 2009[update], 25 states have approved either resolutions or binding legislation not to participate in the program, and with President Obama's selection of Janet Napolitano (a prominent critic of the program) to head the Department of Homeland Security, the future of the law remains uncertain,[2] and bills have been introduced into Congress to amend or repeal it.[3] The most recent of these, dubbed PASS ID, would eliminate many of the more burdensome technological requirements but still require states to meet federal standards in order to have their ID cards accepted by federal agencies.

On March 2, 2007, it was announced that enforcement of the Act would be postponed for two years.[8] The provisions of the bill will be delayed from going into effect until December 2009. On January 11, 2008, it was announced that the deadline has been extended again, until 2011, in hopes of gaining more support from states.[9] On the same date the Department of Homeland Security released the final rule[10] regarding the implementation of the driver's licenses provisions of the Real ID Act.[1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act

failure to implement this just increases the risk to all Govt employees in their workplace
 

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Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Originally Posted By Glassman:

"the Government can easily track every one of those."

_________________________________________________

The government has already tracked some, if not many.

When they apply for unemployment or disability at state levels, they are tracked, pretty easy to figure out who these indivuals are.

50 bucks will buy a fake social security card, many social security numbers are repeated 10 times over because of this.


-
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
I am aware of the methods used to circumvent the system. They are crude and effective ONLY because enforcement people overlook them intentionally.

to back this clam?

The Pakistani-born man, who became a U.S. citizen last year, is accused of parking a crude car bomb in New York's crowded Times Square on May 1. He was arrested aboard a Dubai-bound jetliner two days later.

we didn't even know who the dude was when he left the car bomb in Times Square and caught his butt on the plane within 48 hours....

we have tremendous capbilities that are being intentionally ignored in the illegal issue.

had this guy been illegal? the argument would have been over? nope 9-11 hijackers were illegal and still nobody acts.


here's some stats on demographics:

Among Mexicans, who make up about half the illegal immigrant population, 48 percent are married or have a common-law spouse; more than two-thirds of that percentage live with their spouses in this country. The Pew report noted that about one-third of illegal Mexican immigrants with families have left all their children in Mexico.


note that ONLY half of illegals are Mexican. Apperently this is not just a Mexican Issue.

The next largest nationality of illegals here are from India.

[ May 23, 2010, 15:35: Message edited by: glassman ]
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
As of 2006, the United States accepts more legal immigrants as permanent residents than all other countries in the world combined.[1] Since the liberalization of immigration policy in 1965,[2] the number of first- generation immigrants living in the United States has quadrupled,[3] from 9.6 million in 1970 to about 38 million in 2007.[4]

America admitted more legal immigrants from 1991 to 2000 (between 10-11 million) than in any previous decade.

In 2006, a total of 1,266,264 immigrants became legal permanent residents of the United States, up from 601,516 in 1987, 849,807 in 2000, and 1,122,373 in 2005.[49] The top twelve migrant-sending countries in 2006, by country of birth, were Mexico (173,753), People's Republic of China (87,345), Philippines (74,607), India (61,369), Cuba (45,614), Colombia (43,151), Dominican Republic (38,069), El Salvador (31,783), Vietnam (30,695), Jamaica (24,976), South Korea (24,386), Guatemala (24,146), Other countries - 606,370.[50] In fiscal year 2006, 202 refugees from Iraq were allowed to resettle in the United States.[51][52] Muslim immigration to the U.S. is rising and in 2005 alone more people from Muslim countries became legal permanent U.S. residents — nearly 96,000 — than in any year in the previous two decades.[53][54]

1,046,539 persons were naturalized as U.S. citizens in 2008. The leading countries of birth of the new citizens were Mexico, India and the Philippines.

Calderones comments were a slap in our face as far as i'm concerened.

the illegals are ruining it for the legals. we could allow MORE leqally and at higher pay rates if the illegals were not here.



Many cities, including Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Detroit, Jersey City, Minneapolis, Miami, Denver, Baltimore, Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Portland, Maine, have adopted sanctuary ordinances banning police from asking people about their immigration status

those cities are in direct defiance of Federal Law. as such, they should forfeit every single Federal Dollar they receive. That IS how Federal dollars are supposed to work.
 

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Posted by CashCowMoo on :
 
Obama eyes an "international order" and shares his vision at Westpoint.


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37640.html


He must have more power! MORE!
 

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Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
What still amazes me is how the state can issue a new number so illegals can collect their unemployment and state disability.

When the indivual that has his SS number taken applies for benefits, they have to get a new state number and cannot use their original ss number.

They have to go through the process to get a new ss number, while nothing happens to the indivuals that use their id illegally.

Try and buy liquor with a false id and get caught.


-
 

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Posted by T e x on :
 
Here's the source piece from the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?_r=1
 

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Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
That article is pretty much what i have seen before.

But nobody really talks much about the state side and how state unemployment and disability falls under a different category.

New id is issued by the state to collect their benefits.

Those green card and social security card prices i am sure vary, whatever the market can bear.

This has been going on since way back in the 70's and before, as i am sure you are aware.

I remember working for a company in the 1970's and employees would leave the company and go to Mexico for several months and have a completely different first and last name when they returned.

These worker's mostly males, must have gotten re-married or re-born!

I am sure the employer didn't know that anything was fishy.


-
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
I am sure the employer didn't know that anything was fishy.

this is a large part of my problem with the system.

the employers don't want to know, the SS admin doesn't want to know.

we don't live in the 70's anymore. I can log onto my bank accounts and get up-to-the minute account activity even on the weekends.

heck, one of my credit cards has a tendency to put a hold on my card in the middle of the night whenever i travel.... it would piss me off if i didn't have other cards to buy gas, they can literally tack all of my movements by credit card if they want to.

do i complain? nope, they caught somebody using it in Texas last year and i was not charged one cent of what they put on it. The card had never left my possession, the number was apparently captured and cloned at a gas station in town along with a couple hundred others.... Apparently this is a DAILY occurrence nationwide, and they sop it fairly effectively.

My banks and financial institution are required BY LAW to verify who i am. Several shady pink sheet stock manipulators have been busted and their Brokers prosecuted under the Know Your Customer laws....

We can easily track the money transfer system and know who where and when on a lrge part of the illegals that are using cash. And i know we do it to catch terror suspects.




this situation is not about about lack of ability, it is about lack of honesty and integrity at all levels of our society.

people are literally of the attitude that if you make it across the border? you are here and should be able to stay. Close the border, but don't ask people here if they belong?
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
here's the latest turismo ad from Sonora, the Mexican State that borders AZ, this is a hoax right?



 

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Posted by The Bigfoot on :
 
I agree heartily to hitting the employers who hire illegals (which is what ICE has quietly transitioned to doing since this administration took over) and I am open to the idea of a national ID card...but I'd want to know how that card system would be better protected against fraud as opposed to DL's and SSN's.
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
actually Bush began doing it after the Mccain Kennedy act was dropped..

Obama has cut back on the number of enforcement actions since he took office. the number of people working illegally that were caught in '09 dropped to half what had caught in 2008.

President cuts border security budget
February 2, 8:05 AMLaw Enforcement ExaminerJim Kouri


While telling the American people that national security is a priority in his administration, President Barack Obama submitted a 2011 budget proposal that includes cuts to U.S. border security.
The proposed budget cuts include a reduction in Border Patrol agents and a cut in the amount of money allocated for the so-called "virtual fence" on the U.S.-Mexico border, which critics claim is a pipe dream in lieu of a real border fence

In the midst of a firestorm over Homeland Security Secretary Napolitano's failure to appear before a Congressional committee hearing, officials from her office confirmed the proposed cuts on Monday. They said, however, that there would be no lay-offs of Border Patrol agents and the reduction in positions would be achieved through attrition as agents retire or transfer to other Homeland Security departments.

Obama's proposed budget cut also would eliminate $226 million that had been allocated for an electronic "virtual fence" system along the border. Known as "SBInet," the strategy is to install cameras, radar and sensors to detect humans and contraband coming into the U.S..

Obama White House officials told reporters that even though the President is seeking cuts in border programs, the administration is seeking an additional $10 million to create Border Enforcement Security Task Forces in Honolulu, San Francisco, and Massena, N.Y.

http://www.examiner.com/x-2684-Law-Enforcement-Examiner~y2010m2d2-President-cuts -border-security-budget


as i have already posted, it is very easy to verify ID cards in a national databsae, Credit card co's do it very well. I get instant verification on credit cards as soon as i enter them into the computer. it's less than one minute.

breaking news right now? Obama is beefing up the border, asking for more money and troops too.
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
Seems to me Obama has heard enough he's going to cave in on this, because all the polls show that a rather large majority of Citizens here want the illegals to go home.

Mccain is already on CNN complaining that what Obama is sending ain't enough...

we have the technology to track all the illegals here right now if we WANT to. Not on a minute by minute basis but on a monthly basis.
 

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Posted by raybond on :
 
A national ID card we already have one a ss card. And when it first came out people did not like the idea. DR lic on the state level we have a lot of cards that serve as ID.

But most of all the protest comes from the relegious right and the anti fascist groupes. I just think it is part of our American society to not like such means of ID.
 

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Posted by Pagan on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by glassman:
Seems to me Obama has heard enough he's going to cave in on this, because all the polls show that a rather large majority of Citizens here want the illegals to go home.

Mccain is already on CNN complaining that what Obama is sending ain't enough...

we have the technology to track all the illegals here right now if we WANT to. Not on a minute by minute basis but on a monthly basis.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by glassman:
heck, i'd like it if they issue a good card that has the added potential to stop ID theft, i get more and more concerned about that as time goes by.

I get carded at the local gas station now for tobacco, where they see me and put my smokes on the counter when i come in the door... i'm way over thirty, but they ask everyone now because they got caught selling alcohol to minors.. no big deal to me...

see my from:? it's been that way since day 1, i am proud of being from here even when i critisize what WE do... asking for ID is going on everywhere, why do we pick one issue out to make it about a police state?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pagan:
Sorry for the delay glassman. I was referring to this portion of your post.

"we have the technology to track all the illegals here right now if we WANT to. Not on a minute by minute basis but on a monthly basis."

What technology are you referring to?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by glassman:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pagan:
Sorry for the delay glassman. I was referring to this portion of your post.

"we have the technology to track all the illegals here right now if we WANT to. Not on a minute by minute basis but on a monthly basis."

What technology are you referring to?

---

our wire transfer and credit reporting agencies and walmart already have the data.

we are very capable of sorting it.

the NY times terror suspect was IDed and captured in 48 hrs. It was still possible even IF the bomb had gone off.

I studied the case closely as i could (as a civilian) to understand how they did it. He used cash to buy the SUV and we still got him. They bought the SUV in mall parking lot, with nothing more than cash and title exchange.

Granted we would have a difficult time putting names to the faces, but all the faces are on Walmart cameras just like the face f the guy was on the Mall parking lot cameras. NOw, i 've never done a walmart wire transfer, but it's easy enought to tag every one with a remittance destination an work back form there, and you know they are on camera when they do a remittance. That would be insane not to have for security reasons.

The illusion that our govt doesn't know whatever they want to about the people living in this country might make a lot of libertarians feel comfy, but 9-11 changed everything.

The whole internet is monitored. (and has been since day one) That sounds crazy, but i assure you that govt has the best, most advanced data capture sytem on the planet. The only issue is what you want to do with the data. I wasn't joking when i said the CIA created the credit reporting system. Any cash transaction over 10,000$ has been required to be reported for decades now, and i beleive that number may have gone down since 9-11.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pagan:
I'm sure you can post plenty of articles glassman, but I stand by what I posted. There is NO way to track "all" illegals as you stated in a prior post. Are there some that do the things you just posted in those articles? Sure there are. But not all...not even close.

Btw..yes those places do still exist.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by glassman:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pagan:
I'm sure you can post plenty of articles glassman, but I stand by what I posted. There is NO way to track "all" illegals as you stated in a prior post. Are there some that do the things you just posted in those articles? Sure there are. But not all...not even close.

Btw..yes those places do still exist.

---

sorry, man, but Federal Money Laundering laws ended that years ago...

as Relentless said? we already live in a police state. the laws are just being ignored in this particular case.

---

Just more Federal laws that aren't being enforced glass. There are still plenty of places to wire money or purchase money orders with no cameras. It's naive to think otherwise. They maybe able to track the transfers to a destination, or the money order to a name(most likely an alias). No ID is required to purchase money orders. So no need to be sorry

But still...there is NO way to track "all" illegals as you stated. Sorry
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
OK, so i am wrong to use the word all. lemme rephrase and a say most of

i am thinking of Postal Money orders, i assume there's others that are less regulated. When you are in the post office? smile, they are watching .

the Patriot acts Know Your Customer laws are kindof spooky...
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
U.S. Rules Force Western Union to Block Money Transfers by Muslims

Sunday, July 02, 2006

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — Money transfer agencies like Western Union have delayed or blocked thousands of cash deliveries on suspicion of terrorist connections simply because senders or recipients have names like Mohammed or Ahmed, company officials said.

In one example, an Indian driver here said Western Union prevented him from sending US$120 (euro96) to a friend at home this month because the recipient's name was Mohammed.

"Western Union told me that if I send money to Sahir Mohammed, the money will be blocked because of his name," said 36-year-old Abdul Rahman Maruthayil, who later sent the money through UAE Exchange, a Dubai-based money transfer service.

In a similar case, Pakistani Qadir Khan said Western Union blocked his attempt this month to wire money to his brother, Mohammed, for a cataract operation.

"Every Mohammed is a terrorist now?" Khan asked.

Western Union Financial Services, Inc., an American company based in Colorado, said its clerks simply are following U.S. Treasury Department guidelines that aim to scrutinize cash flows for terrorist links. Most of the flagged transactions are delayed a few hours. Some are blocked entirely.

Western Union's caution is perhaps understandable. Sept. 11 hijacker Mohammed Atta sent money from two Western Union agencies in Maryland before boarding a plane he helped crash into New York's World Trade Center.



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,201850,00.html

this is the kicker:

The money transfer crackdown comes amid revelations that the U.S. Treasury and CIA have tracked millions of confidential financial transactions handled by the Belgium-based Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication, or SWIFT.

we realyl can track it all.. we have the capability and that capability increases every day.
 

---

Posted by Pagan on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by glassman:
U.S. Rules Force Western Union to Block Money Transfers by Muslims

Sunday, July 02, 2006

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — Money transfer agencies like Western Union have delayed or blocked thousands of cash deliveries on suspicion of terrorist connections simply because senders or recipients have names like Mohammed or Ahmed, company officials said.

In one example, an Indian driver here said Western Union prevented him from sending US$120 (euro96) to a friend at home this month because the recipient's name was Mohammed.

"Western Union told me that if I send money to Sahir Mohammed, the money will be blocked because of his name," said 36-year-old Abdul Rahman Maruthayil, who later sent the money through UAE Exchange, a Dubai-based money transfer service.

In a similar case, Pakistani Qadir Khan said Western Union blocked his attempt this month to wire money to his brother, Mohammed, for a cataract operation.

"Every Mohammed is a terrorist now?" Khan asked.

Western Union Financial Services, Inc., an American company based in Colorado, said its clerks simply are following U.S. Treasury Department guidelines that aim to scrutinize cash flows for terrorist links. Most of the flagged transactions are delayed a few hours. Some are blocked entirely.

Western Union's caution is perhaps understandable. Sept. 11 hijacker Mohammed Atta sent money from two Western Union agencies in Maryland before boarding a plane he helped crash into New York's World Trade Center.



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,201850,00.html

this is the kicker:

The money transfer crackdown comes amid revelations that the U.S. Treasury and CIA have tracked millions of confidential financial transactions handled by the Belgium-based Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication, or SWIFT.

we realyl can track it all.. we have the capability and that capability increases every day.

---

Just an FYI glass, you can purchase Money Orders at any gas station, covenience store, grocery store, etc. Not just the Post Office or bank.

And I get your point as far as tracking the wire transfer destinations. But tracking the individuals is a whole nother ballgame. Nothing is fool proof.
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
Nothing is fool proof. [Big Grin]


i agree absolutely, see my post about why i decided i would not re-up in the Navy. And beleive me i enjoyed the lifestyle thouroghly. Traveling and getting paid? It was great. I even like being out at sea on the destroyers. I don't think i would like a carrier much.

on the other hand? suppose we were to follow Gov Richerdson's attitude, (which i tend to agree with the most of everybody i've heard so far) and agreed to "legitimise" illegals presence here by "bringing them to the registers and getting them all documented? Then we could really track and ID all but the most sophisticated illegals wh refuse to "register", i beleive we could safely assume they are professional criminals and are very good at what they do.
Most illegals are not very educated and are doing what they are taught on the street by other uneducated people. It works but only because we don't bother to do a darn thing about it.
I agree that most of them are good simple people who want to work and work hard. They are bien abused by this sytem too

BTW? Richardson says we should not offer Citizenship at all to them after we legitimise them. I tend to think we can offer it, but only after they go home for one continuous year.

IMO? any direct path to Citizenship is amnesty, but it also wrong to deny people who comply with the laws any path at all.

We need to felonise second illegal entries tho....

first time is bus ride home, second time is 2 years hard labor then ride home.
 

---

Posted by Pagan on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by glassman:
Nothing is fool proof. [Big Grin]


i agree absolutely, see my post about why i decided i would not re-up in the Navy. And beleive me i enjoyed the lifestyle thouroghly. Traveling and getting paid? It was great. I even like being out at sea on the destroyers. I don't think i would like a carrier much.

on the other hand? suppose we were to follow Gov Richerdson's attitude, (which i tend to agree with the most of everybody i've heard so far) and agreed to "legitimise" illegals presence here by "bringing them to the registers and getting them all documented? Then we could really track and ID all but the most sophisticated illegals wh refuse to "register", i beleive we could safely assume they are professional criminals and are very good at what they do.
Most illegals are not very educated and are doing what they are taught on the street by other uneducated people. It works but only because we don't bother to do a darn thing about it.
I agree that most of them are good simple people who want to work and work hard. They are bien abused by this sytem too

BTW? Richardson says we should not offer Citizenship at all to them after we legitimise them. I tend to think we can offer it, but only after they go home for one continuous year.

IMO? any direct path to Citizenship is amnesty, but it also wrong to deny people who comply with the laws any path at all.

We need to felonise second illegal entries tho....

first time is bus ride home, second time is 2 years hard labor then ride home.

---

I agree completely
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
here is Richardson being interviewed by Andrea Mitchell, i don't like the scholarships part, but i agree with alot of his views and i think that the GOP could be made to look pretty foolish if they didn't go along with a large portion of his idea.

I've noticed the MSNBC has gone nuts lately esp as they talk about the govt taking over the oil spill... I hadn't watched them for months and the change seems pretty big to me.


i think they screwed up when they decided to compete directly against Fox with the same type of "opinion programming"...

note that that he specifically calls for background checks and no citizenship...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37360724#37360724
 

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Posted by raybond on :
 
Did You Know?
Little Known Facts in the Immigration Debate



1.In 2006, the total unauthorized population in the U.S. was estimated at 11,550,000 by the Department of Homeland Security.


2.The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) deported more than 186,600 illegal aliens in 2006.


3.57% of the unauthorized population in 2006 was from Mexico; 12% from El Salvador, Guatemala, Brazil, and Honduras; 10% from India, Korea, China, Vietnam, and the Philippines; while 21% were from all other countries.


4.As of 2006, California contained 24% of the total illegal alien population. Texas had 14%, Florida 8%, New York 5%, and Illinois 5%.


5.2005-2006 population studies indicated that unauthorized immigrants work in the following industries: service occupations (32%); construction and extractive jobs (19%); production, installation and repair (15%); sales and administrative (12%); management, business, and professional (10%); and farming (4%).


6.The IRS estimated that from 1996 to 2003 it received "almost $50 billion" in federal income taxes from people using Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs). They said that "many illegal aliens" as well as others ineligible to receive Social Security numbers contributed to this figure.


7.An Army Corps of Engineers' study estimated that constructing a Mexican border fence would cost over $1.2 million per mile, excluding land acquisition costs, and that the 25-year life cycle cost of the fence would range from $16.4 million to $70 million per mile.


8.40 tunnels and subterranean passages have been discovered under the U.S.-Mexico border from Sep. 11, 2001 to Mar. 16, 2006.


9.An estimated 3.1 million American citizen children have at least one illegal alien parent.


10.Being an alien with an expired visa or residency permit inside the US is a civil offense, while entering illegally or smuggling aliens across the borders could be classified as a misdemeanor, a felony, or even as a capital crime.


11.The first major U.S. immigration curtailment was the 1882 Chinese Exclusion Immigration Act.


If you have any little known, straightforward, and interesting facts that you’d like to share, please contact us. Please include a link or reference to your source.

Last updated on 6/26/2009 2:52:00 PM PST
 

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Posted by raybond on :
 
Top 20 Occupations with High Shares of Unauthorized Immigrants, 2008


Top 20 Occupations* % of Unauthorized Immigrants in Total Work Force # of Unauthorized Immigrant Workers Total # of All
Workers

1. Brickmasons, blockmasons and stonemasons 40% 131,000 325,000
2. Drywall installers, ceiling tile installers and tapers 37% 94,000 255,000
3. Roofers 31% 76,000 246,000
4. Miscellaneous agricultural workers 30% 269,000 910,000
5. Helpers, construction trades 28% 52,000 184,000
6. Dishwashers 28% 101,000 364,000
7. Construction laborers 27% 556,000 2,055,000
8. Maids and housekeeping cleaners 27% 417,000 1,555,000
9. Cement masons, concrete finishers and terazzo workers 27% 29,000 109,000
10. Packaging and filling machine operators and tenders 26% 96,000 369,000
11. Grounds maintenance workers 25% 356,000 1,413,000
12. Packers and packagers, hand 24% 119,000 504,000
13. Butchers, poultry and fish processing workers 23% 71,000 305,000
14. Carpet, floor, and tile installlers and finishers 22% 68,000 306,000
15. Painters, constuction and maintenance 22% 173,000 791,000
16. Parking lot attendants 21% 21,000 100,000
17. Chefs and head cooks 20% 75,000 377,000
18. Sewing machine operators 20% 49,000 248,000
19. Refuse and recyclable material collectors 19% 22,000 112,000
20. Cooks 19% 427,000 2,219,000
Other "unauthorized" occupations** 9% 3,120,000 34,979,000
All other occupations 2% 1,928,000 106,407,000
Total, Civilian Labor Force (with an occupation
 

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Posted by raybond on :
 
As long as there is a job at the end of an illegals destination they will get here some how. No matter how many walls you build or how many troops you put on the border. You know why?
The illegals motivation for getting hear is if he or she stays where they are its death plain and simple by starvation.
 

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Posted by raybond on :
 
John McCain, U.S. Senator (R-AZ), in a Mar. 30, 2006 statement on the Senate floor regarding border security and immigration reform legislation, offered the following remarks:
"I have listened to and understand the concerns of those who simply advocate sealing our borders and rounding up and deporting undocumented workers currently in residence here. But that's easier said than done... I have yet to hear a single proponent of this point of view offer one realistic proposal for locating, apprehending, and returning to their countries of origin over 11 million people. How do we do that? ...it would take 200,000 buses extending along a 1700 mile long line to deport 11 million people. That's assuming we had the resources to locate and apprehend all 11 million, or even half that number, which we don't have and, we all know, won't ever have."
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by raybond:
As long as there is a job at the end of an illegals destination they will get here some how. No matter how many walls you build or how many troops you put on the border. You know why?
The illegals motivation for getting hear is if he or she stays where they are its death plain and simple by starvation.

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quote:

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Originally posted by raybond:
Whens the last time you have been to Mexico and I don't meaan a border town?

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