posted
What a mess,the price is just to much to pay if we stay and if we don't stay,well look whats going on the first day.
The right thing for this country to do is what we did ,leave. They are not worth the lives of our young people or our money. They will get the type of life they can make for themselves like we did.And the blood suckers like Cheeny can go to hell,so can exxon mobli and all the others.Good-by Iraq you offerd no good and are a complete drain on the world.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
I KNEW this was going to happen as soon as we left. Sadr and his militia just put down his arms and waited....his patience is paying off.
Iran has also publicly announced it is going to engage Iraq now and build closer ties to the government.....im sure the government they have and want to establish in Iraq. Then they begin this:
"Posturing or preparing for war? Iran begins naval drills in world's most strategic oil transit channel"
All this crap is unfolding now, and I think 2012 is going to be a year of conflict over there sooner or later. It doesnt take much.
Have you seen all the attacks in Baghdad that have been going on since we left?
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
"I KNEW this was going to happen as soon as we left. Sadr and his militia just put down his arms and waited....his patience is paying off.
Iran has also publicly announced it is going to engage Iraq now and build closer ties to the government.....im sure the government they have and want to establish in Iraq. Then they begin this:
"Posturing or preparing for war? Iran begins naval drills in world's most strategic oil transit channel"
All this crap is unfolding now, and I think 2012 is going to be a year of conflict over there sooner or later. It doesnt take much.
Have you seen all the attacks in Baghdad that have been going on since we left?"
_________________________________________________
I was wondering the same thing as Buckstalker, it was sounding like you thought pulling out was a big mistake.
It appears to me it is going back to what the Middle East is all about and has been for hundreds of years.
We said it from the start here on allstocks, should not be any big surprise to most that follow.
It sucks for the troops, but at least it's less lost(troops) than the prior mistake!
Now we need to get out of the one close by and stay out of the other spots, we will see about that, big oil seems to dictate our foreign policies.
posted
Not likely with Iran threatening to cut off the strait of Hormuz.
Whoever is in charge of admin will want to keep a force on the ground in the area for as long as possible.
We pulled troops from Afghanistan for the start of Iraq. We will do the same for the start of Iran if necessary.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I dont think there is anyone as crazy as Iran. North Korea is just the control freak type, Iran is fighting for religion which is far more dangerous.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
I always thought that when your in a hostile area you would always assume that every area you entered is hostile in nature, i don't understand why i would need someone to tell me this.
If you don't know this you usually don't live to long, especially in a war zone.
It's so hard for me to look at the article below and actualy try to understand what their really asking a combat soldier to try and figure out in a matter of split seconds....unreal
posted
That is from the softening of our military and our stance. You could not have won against Germany playing by the rules they have now.
First of all the insurgents dont follow any rules of war, but its ok since we are the big bad aggressor.
A lot of liberals think that if we just pack up everything and come home, mind our business, that nobody will attack us or work torwards harming us. The whole "world peace maaaannnn" attitude doesnt work.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
A lot of liberals think that if we just pack up everything and come home, mind our business, that nobody will attack us or work torwards harming us. The whole "world peace maaaannnn" attitude doesnt work.
How do you know? We have never tried that tactic... Oh and btw...I am far from a liberal
-------------------- ***********************
It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I never thought you were buck. I know this because I hear it all the time from people, tv, read it in articles. Were we not minding our own business in WWI, and again in WWII and got dragged into that?
Did we provoke the Germans, the Japanese?
We could leave every arab land in the world, not attack them, and they would still attack us just because we are not an islamic nation. I think some people forget how radical islam can be.
We didnt invade Kuwait in 1991, and we didnt finish the job back then either. Did we provoke the Korean war? Iran repeats over and over how they are going to destroy israel, and we have proof that they are working towards nukes.
Oh lets just leave Iran alone and everything will be fine. These people are crazy. People who are oblivious to global threats remind me of this guy, remember Baghdad Bob? Kept telling the world everything is fine, all is ok, etc etc while the 3rd Infantry Division was rippin it up.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
"I never thought you were buck. I know this because I hear it all the time from people, tv, read it in articles. Were we not minding our own business in WWI, and again in WWII and got dragged into that?
Did we provoke the Germans, the Japanese?
We could leave every arab land in the world, not attack them, and they would still attack us just because we are not an islamic nation. I think some people forget how radical islam can be.
We didnt invade Kuwait in 1991, and we didnt finish the job back then either. Did we provoke the Korean war? Iran repeats over and over how they are going to destroy israel, and we have proof that they are working towards nukes.
Oh lets just leave Iran alone and everything will be fine. These people are crazy. People who are oblivious to global threats remind me of this guy, remember Baghdad Bob? Kept telling the world everything is fine, all is ok, etc etc while the 3rd Infantry Division was rippin it up."
_________________________________________________
Different times different places not sure using the 20's thru the 40's is a good comparison to the 50's through the 2011's, as far as reasons why we engage in these wars.
To me they are and were two different ball games.
Still sounds to me that you want to take on more countries with our young men and women.
Where do we start and where do we end, especially since Islam and religion is through out the world.
Do we have enough resources(money,men and women) to do this?
Again, these wars do not stop in casualities and related costs when we leave, not for our veterans only in our politicians minds.
I think we should have every politician take a lie detector test before we go to war and ask them three simple questions. 1. Would they be willing to go and fight this war if they were young enough. 2.Would they be willing to send their kids or grandkids to fight this war. 3.Do they have any alternative reasons for going to war other that protecting our nation? Maybe even throw the word oil in there.
If more than 50% could pass this test then we could consider whether to go to war, but i doubt we would ever have to consider that as a possibility after they took the test.
posted
I think we should have every politician take a lie detector test before we go to war and ask them three simple questions. 1. Would they be willing to go and fight this war if they were young enough. 2.Would they be willing to send their kids or grandkids to fight this war. 3.Do they have any alternative reasons for going to war other that protecting our nation? Maybe even throw the word oil in there.
i enlisted (under Carter) to go to fight in Iran, and i was against this war in Iraq. Daddy Bush made the correct choice by leaving saddam in place.
too many idiots here in the USA think they know the world when they don't even know their own country.
Bush jr's invasion of Iraq was Criminal on so many levels that it would take several books to cover each one concisely.
the only reason i had any clue about mideastern politics and religion was completely by accident. i went to a private high school that was full of state dept people (my parents were not). The mideast is nothing like our culture, and will never be. We have nothing to export to them, and the sooner that Americans realise this, the better off we'll all be. The mideast was Ancient before white people came to the America's, who are we to tell them how to live?
We made sadam WHO HE WAS. I had one of my kids freinds over while he was on recuperative leave. He took round in his shoulder. He was there in the first days, and he swore to me that we recovered WMD, specifically- VX made in USA. That would have been sold to Sadam by Rumsfeld himself.
Of course i didn't argue with this kid. He was injured pretty badly and obviously under mental distress. Having served under nam era vets and living the tidewater area of Va surrounded by navy seals retired and active, i knew that just listening and being attentive was what he needed as he talked. I dunno whether to beleive him or not. But i know that he desperately wanted me to beleive that he was there for a good reason.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
We could leave every arab land in the world, not attack them, and they would still attack us just because we are not an islamic nation. I think some people forget how radical islam can be.
we were attacked by a handful of people cash.
not a religion, not even a nation. the terrorist binladen specifically stated that he was out to destroy US financially like we did to the USSR, and he very nearly succeeded because we responded just as HE WISHED us TO.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
not a religion, not even a nation. the terrorist binladen specifically stated that he was out to destroy US financially like we did to the USSR, and he very nearly succeeded because we responded just as HE WISHED us TO." _________________________________________________
We are now seeing the age for collecting SS heading upward the next stop 69, which is a fitting number for what people that have paid into the system are getting.
As more people are unemployed and as more people get over the age of 50, which makes it much harder for them(over 50) to find and keep employment, our politicians raise the age to retire.
Let's keep taking money from our retirement system for War and everything else, except what we paid into it for, so those who worked and paid can spend their final days living in the streets.
These wars are not benefitting the majority in any way except more indivual bankruptcies and more family problems, these problems are created directed by wars or by the dominal affect, either way the final result is the same.
How about taking the money we use in war and create more jobs (highways etc.) pay off these politicians that fight import taxes on China(since we can't seem to get rid of them any other way) then get this country back where it use to be allowing our industries to shine again.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC) Posts: 386 | From: Georgia | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Do you realistically see Paul on the November ballot? So who will you actually vote for?
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Pagan: Do you realistically see Paul on the November ballot? So who will you actually vote for?
i beleive he may go 3rd party this time. I fhe does? he will get my vote.
i don't totally agree with everything he says he wants to do any more than i agree totally with anyone else. I belive that voting for him will send a strong message to the buttheads already in DC
I want to vote against anyone already in office. Romney represents Wall St, but Obama hasn't exactly stood up to them either, no matter how mucht he GOP wants to paint him as anti-business? They are seriously mischaracterising him. I am sick of Boehner and that pasty fat guy from kentuck in the senate. I will have a hard time voting for a serious liar and Romney is worse than Obama, so, if Paul isn't on the ticket, i will prolly have to vote for Obama again. I do not agree (witht he GOP) that he has done a bad job. I just don't think he stood up to the GOP enough when it mattered.
If i were to vote for Romney? It would mostly be to shut the GOP liars up for long enough to see them have to eat their words about how they have the solutions to our problems. They are and have been the problem. The Dems have not exactly been the solution to teh GOP tho
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
The differance between recent wars and earlier ones, is that it was much easier to screen things like article below before they got out, military officals know they go on in every war.
With the internet it is much harder to screen things.
Can't imagine the taliban would do these type of things... right
posted
Can't imagine the taliban would do these type of things... right
the taliban would, but the point of 'selling" war to the general public requires a veil of legitimacy- this sort of peirces that veil and rips it away... there is no moral high ground in war, war is the suspension of civility and you cannot put people into a war and expect them to behave as if they are not.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
I have never served, I appreciate those that do and have. So the following opinion is one that can be perceived as ignorant:
I believe that the problem with "winning" wars in the modern era (for the U.S. only) is that the American's stomach has become weak. I don't mean the soldiers stomach....the public's. Somewhere along the way people bought into the idea that you could win wars without atrocities. I tend to think that wars should be Bloody and brutal as hell because it shortens their duration. The way we fight wars today....who would surrender? We may conquer and occupy but no country would submit. No country or group would say; "enough boys, you got us. We give up." And I personally think that is not a testiment of their resolve, rather it appears to me to be a reflection of half hearted attempts at waging war on the part of the military leadership; that for some reason feels the need portray war in "enemy friendly" terms.
If a cause is sufficient that war should be waged. Go to EFFING war. Outside of fair treatment and respect for those that surrender, anything goes! That is the point after all; it has to be bad enough that your enemy realizes that their only relief is submission.
I may get poo pooed for this next bit but give it an honest think before you do.....then let me have it:
The reality is almost nobody surrenders over dead soldiers (unless they completely run out). Groups at war expect dead soldiers. It is only when the cries from one countries citizenry become so great that one will relent and accept defeat. The way we wage war today minimizes the impact to non-combatants and therefore you can not break the enemys spirit in such a way as to force a surrender. In many ways, failure wage war in an all out manner serves harden the enemy's resolve. If WWII had been fought in this manner, we would still be fighting the Japanese.....those proud SOB's (Affectionate curse) would have not stopped even if you killed every soldier they had. But wipe out a couple of towns and what is arguably the most resolved people in the world are suddenly broken. No, I am not advocating nukes. I am just trying to say that if a cause is just enough that War is warranted, take off the gloves and give it to them with both barrels.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC) Posts: 386 | From: Georgia | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Btw.....the above rant has nothing to do with pissing on people. I don't agree with that and it was not my intent to try and legitmize it by saying "make war hell."
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC) Posts: 386 | From: Georgia | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
rounder i beleive you have it right. "legitimizing" war is dishonest. it kind of goes back tot hat "shining city on the hill" vision which is a fairy tale.....
we've now been in several illegitmate wars because Congress just won't declare, yet we still fight? that's creepy to me..
i only served in peacetime so i'm also speaking as an observer.
those guys were idiots to break out the video and will be or should be judged not by us civies, but by their peers-other combatants int he war....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
The taking of body parts in wars is pretty well documented, the urinating, not heard of that one.
The reasoning behind such acts most will never know why, a little bit of possible reasoning might come from the movie Apocalypse Now.
Maybe a little bit of temporary insanity, maybe just to much death of friends and restictive war, maybe by being overly nasty the less likely the enemy will want to engage.
Only these soldiers can answer their specific acts, but war is not a pretty thing to the guys in the middle... it's life or death
Probably the example they learned from is the war back in the 60's, a long time ago.
These guys are now looking at the possibility of the death sentance, seems pretty steep to me.
Why all the attention lately to the war by the media?
Wonder if it has anything to do with the upcoming elections?
Sure doesn't help any of these soldiers chances when so much attention is being brought on.
I still remember the saying i heard way back in the 60's, What about if they gave a war and nobody showed up.
"those guys were idiots to break out the video and will be or should be judged not by us civies, but by their peers-other combatants int he war...." _________________________________________________
Wish it would be other recent grunts.
But it will be higher up military looking to protect their image.
Wonder how people would have looked at it if it was right after 911?
posted
All I have to say if you don't want things like this to happen don't go to war. I would buy them a beer if I could.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
cast him as an abberation. I beleive they did that to Obama once too ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
